Notes on new team difficulty settings
By
Abigail Frost,
Posted on: 2009-08-26 15:02 in The Market and Inventions
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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
vacation?
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Not quite that glamorous
Extended family obligations.
Repeat Offenders
Ran about a dozen paper missions tonight. I'm loving the drop analyzer, makes things so much easier.
1361 defeats. 81 Bosses, 221 Lt's, 1059 minions.
13 common recipes, 8 Pool A recipes (All uncommons); 0.97% chance per minion equivalent
132 salvage, 8.22% per minion equivalent.
Did a lot of tinkering with the mob tables as well, added the mobs from the PI mayhem into it (PPD Drone, Unleashed, Transcended, Guardian, and Awakened, as well as "Knives of Artemis Boss".) I started a new group for the Paragon Heros, and kept getting a "failed the heuristic check" message for a few mobs, I eventually just deleted the ones that didn't spawn redside (Crey tank bosses and malta Gunslingers, IIRC.) Making the mob file .txt and editable helped a LOT.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
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I've not been able to get it to work, which kept me from posting more results last night. I suspect I just need to reboot; when I type the command syntax, it gives me an error that makes me think that Perl didn't end up in the path as it was supposed to, but may be there once I reboot the machine.
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Originally Posted by Lakanna
Ran about a dozen paper missions tonight. I'm loving the drop analyzer, makes things so much easier.
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My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Can you PM me the error message? I'm curious.
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
... when I type the command syntax, it gives me an error that makes me think that Perl didn't end up in the path as it was supposed to, but may be there once I reboot the machine.
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I would if it were still giving it. Overnight, without a reboot, it decided to become able to run.|
Originally Posted by Archie Gremlin
Can you PM me the error message? I'm curious.
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Stats for the 3 paper missions from yesterday: 259 minions, 71 lts, 17 bosses who also downgraded to lts, 5 Pool A recipes.
Will run more tonight. I'm tempted to swap to a different version of the l50 brute to see if the bug is in the character, but will try to get to 1k kills in papers/rikti missions/cimerora missions before I do so.
edited to add: 210 minions, 210 lieutenants (counting downgraded bosses), 4 shadow cyst crystals: 4 Pool A drops (none from a cyst). Will do more tonight if the storm that I keep hearing in the distance decides to skip us.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
I'm gonna try something different tonight. Farming inthe Fab, and tracking recipe/salvage drops by rank. I'll be set at +0x1 as normal, just to make sure that no strange things are happening with the virtual teammates. I'll post the results of several hours of street-sweeping in a boss-heavy zone later on.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
Bill Z is reporting an improvement of drops with the latest patch.
Anyone having similar results?
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Can't say I've tested recently.
I'll try to check tomorrow
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There wasn't a patch today that I could tell, and the character I've been testing with was still getting junk for drops yesterday (in terms of percentage vs. expected, not necessarily in terms of quality). Without being able to isolate why, though, I can't imagine that there's much Synapse or anyone else can do about it.|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
Bill Z is reporting an improvement of drops with the latest patch.
Anyone having similar results? |
edited to add: ran the first mission of the arc that includes "Liberate TV" (the one with the freaks and DE on the graveyard map). 365 minions, 394 lieutenants. 15 Pool A recipes realized. 31 Pool A recipes expected based on previously known drop rates. Better than what I get on the council map, but still low. Given how much Castle and BABs were on the forums today, expect I16 to be live by the time I'm awake again.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
A friend of mine told me he had gotten an exceptionally low run from Liberate TV map on live. It's merely anectodotal, but it could either be an unlucky run or perhaps map based.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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There was someone in another thread bemoaning 20 or so runs on that map without a purple. About 3 posts in, he came back and said he just got 2 in one run. Any single run I can write off as everybody's favorite, "Random drops are random". I'm just shifting maps because of the possibility that the Council map I'd been using was part of the problem, but another 1400 kills later, I still can't get anywhere near the advertised drop rate.|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
A friend of mine told me he had gotten an exceptionally low run from Liberate TV map on live. It's merely anectodotal, but it could either be an unlucky run or perhaps map based.
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Wouldn't it be a kick in the head if character names actually contributed part of the seed value for the RNG, and all those people who claim that they never get drops on their mains don't get them because of how they named their characters?
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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A kick in the head? I'm thinking of a lot lower down...
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
Wouldn't it be a kick in the head if character names actually contributed part of the seed value for the RNG, and all those people who claim that they never get drops on their mains don't get them because of how they named their characters?
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Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
OK, some pretty ugly numbers from running +0/x1 street sweeping.
Total defeats: 907
475 minions
225 Lt's
111 Bosses
Common Salvage drops: 81 (8.93% overall)
44 Minion (9.26% of minions)
20 Lt (8.89% of Lts)
21 Boss (18.9% of bosses)
Uncommon Salvage drops: 18 (1.98% overall)
4 minion (0.84% of minions)
7 Lt (3.11% of Lt's)
7 Boss (6.31% of Bosses)
Rare Salvage drops: 2 (0.22% overall)
1 Minion (0.21% of minions)
1 Lt (0.44% of Lt's)
Common recipe drops: 6 (0.66% overall)
2 minion (0.42% of minions)
3 Lt (1.09% of Lts)
1 boss (0.90% of bosses)
Uncommon recipe drops: 1 (0.11% overall)
1 Boss (0.90% of bosses)
Enhancement drops: 10 (1.10% overall)
2 Minion (0.42% of minions)
2 Lt (0.73% of Lts)
6 Boss (5.41% of bosses)
I wasn't counting inspirations this time around. The drops for salvage still seem to be overall fine. The drops rates for recipes, however, are not fixed, at least not up until the 09-10 "maintenance."
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
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So then does there need to be a lt and min for each boss? or can i have 1 lt, 4 min, and the rest bosses?
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Custom Villain Groups
If a player has all three basic critter types in their CVG, they will receive full rewards for the mission. If one critter type is missing they will receive 50% rewards. If two critter types are missing they will receive 25% rewards, and if none of the core critter types are in the CVG, there are no rewards. |
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If you have AT LEAST 1 of each rank, then you can add as many of any rank as you want, space allowing.
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Originally Posted by beyeajus74018
So then does there need to be a lt and min for each boss? or can i have 1 lt, 4 min, and the rest bosses?
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50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Recipe drops seem fixed in the 09-10 patch. Still testing, but after 4 paper missions, I'm still looking at right around 2% recipe drop rate.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
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Has there been other talk about this as a potential reason ? I have 2 different chars I tend to grind with about evenly. The one definately gets WAY more recipe drops than the other one.| Wouldn't it be a kick in the head if character names actually contributed part of the seed value for the RNG, and all those people who claim that they never get drops on their mains don't get them because of how they named their characters? |
Ive observed this weird little behavior for a long time, but just chalked it up to oddball luck on the rolls.
Any other chatter around these lines in general ?
Over the hills and through the woods.
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In addition to the end of Bridging and the adjustments to Custom Critters in MA Arcs, if a group used in an arc does not include minions, lts, and bosses, rewards are drastically reduced. Even if you create a group consisting of developer created bosses, it will reduce the XP and other rewards unless the group also contains Lts and Minions.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
I missed the "End of boss farms". Do you just mean "end of 45's doorsitting in AE while one 50 does the work"? Or was there more to it?
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So... Boss Farms are not going to be the candy store they are at the moment.
- Garielle
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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
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The thing is, it is difficult (at best) to specify what rank you want spawn. Yes, you can create a non-required "Boss" objective, but that boss will likely be surrounded by Lts and Minions unless you specify the surrounding group as None. If you do that, then there's not much point. |
Originally Posted by beyeajus74018
So then does there need to be a lt and min for each boss? or can i have 1 lt, 4 min, and the rest bosses?
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The bulk of the spawn in a map is going to be randomly generated mobs based on the group you have selected for the mission. These will be made up of all three ranks, if all three ranks are available. Even if your group has 1 kind of Minion, 1 kind of Lt, and 20 kinds of bosses, what will spawn will be a whole bunch of copies of your minions and lts, and 1 or 2 bosses which may be the same or different. The reason boss farms at the moment spawn nothing but bosses is because the group that is set for the mission doesn't have any minions or lts assigned.
- Garielle
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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
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My limited observations lead me to agree. Set to +0/8, ran the "TV Don" mission and a little less than half of the "Liberate TV" mission. 513 minions, 327 lieutenants. Expected Pool A drops: 31.12. Actual Pool A drops: 36.|
Originally Posted by Lakanna
Recipe drops seem fixed in the 09-10 patch. Still testing, but after 4 paper missions, I'm still looking at right around 2% recipe drop rate.
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Pending further confirmation, I'll offer a preliminary "gg, devs," and continue to wonder what the bug was and how they isolated it. That it's probably fixed is enough for me to be happy, though.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
\o/ Yay! If it is fixed I am a very pleased player.
D: Toss me a hai @DarkNat My Fify glory: Renzer Dark/Dark Corr., Renzro Dark/Dark Def., Amartasu Dark/Dark Scrap.Less important ones: Fire/Fire Blaster,Ice/Ice Blaster,Ele/Ele Brute, Mind/Storm Troll,Fire/Kin Corr.,Bots/FF MM., DB/Regen Scrap.
Here are my last numbers, always the same mission, ran 3 times a few minutes ago.
Expected recipes/run = 12
Expected salvages/run = 32
First run (2x6)
Recipes = 9 (7/2/0)
Salvages = 29 (22/5/2)
Second run (1x6)
Recipes = 5 (4/0/1)
Salvages = 34 (28/5/1)
Third run (0x6)
Recipes = 9 (6/0/2/1) (Yeah, purple! BTW, are purple recipes include in Pool A? If not, make -1 to my total)
Salvages = 39 (32/5/2)
Total: 1134 enemies (918/216)
Expected recipes drop: 32
Effective recipes drop: 23 = 71.9% of expected
Expected salvages drop: 97
Effective salvages drop: 102 = 105.2% of expected
Sooooo... There still is a bug. 1000+ kills may be too little to draw conclusion, but 72% is too low. I'm very ok with salvages, but I'm way under what I expect with recipes. I may run this mission 3 more times later today if no one else comes with numbers showing that the bug is still there.
BTW, before the last patch, my effective/expected recipes drop ratio was 73.3%, based on 3500+ kills. Today I got 71.9% with 1000+ kills. Pretty much the same.
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I'm not getting the same number for expected recipes you are. I get 36, rather than 32, which makes your results even worse (though only barely outside the 95% confidence interval).|
Originally Posted by Beber
Sooooo... There still is a bug. 1000+ kills may be too little to draw conclusion, but 72% is too low.
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What expected are you using for minions? Paragonwiki says the drop rate for recipes for minions is .0266667, but I've seen a few folks in various threads using .0233333. The .0233333 gives close to 32 for the expected, so I'm guessing that's what you used.
With 1134 observations, you've got a margin of error of +/- about 1%. Your weighted expected drop rate looks like 3.17%, so anything down to 2.17% would be within chance. Unfortunately, you're at closer to 2.03%.
I could have just had a mutant session. There could be an element of what time you log in or what time you register your first kill that feeds into the RNG seed, and I just got really lucky. I'll try to do a little more data gathering before my wife and I leave town today, to see whether my experience yesterday was far afield. I'll also go back to the map I've done most of my data-gathering on after I finish the Lib TV map I've got sitting in my flashback.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
Yep, it's 36... I don't know how I did that, but 3*12=32 in my mind 
The ratio is then 63.9% of expected.
My rates are 2/75 for minions, 4/75 for lieut and 6/75 for bosses. As I said before I use an average for number of minions/lieuts per mission, so my "effective" kills are in fact "theorical", but close enough to the real ones to give correct numbers (as shown by my salvages numbers).
Talking about "mutant session", I had one last week, I ended with a effective/expected ratio of 92% with the same amount of kills (1000+), when everyone else had "bugged" numbers. Official word about if there was a change made or not would be welcome, since there was nothing about it in the last patchnote. I still might run more tests this night.
Would you care to try a different map on difficulty 1 team size 8? I suspect that you'll get a much better drop rate.
Edited to add: I had the same concern during CB after my initial round of runs (I think it was then) so went to the RWZ and ran some Borea missions. After 3-4 of those, I was still getting really low recipe drop rates, so went back to the Council map because it had predictable spawn numbers.
Will post data from today's data collection later, not sure how many missions I'll get to run because the wife has some plans for us. First council paper mission, 3 Pool A, one costume recipe
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.