Notes on new team difficulty settings
By
Abigail Frost,
Posted on: 2009-08-26 15:02 in The Market and Inventions
Quote:
This is SO wrong! It is sad.|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
-1 level x7 spawn size
Unai Kemen Zombie map. Salvage 5 Fortune 4 Ruby 3 Nevermelting Ice 1 Thorn Tree vine 1 Psionic Threat Report 1 Demonic Threat Report Recipes 1 Costume Piece: Piston Boots (1) 1 Rope-a-dope: End/Stun (47) 1 Invention: Endurance Reduction (50) 1 Invention: Run (50) |
4 Recipes for fighting all the mobs set for 7 players ?!!
Now this is no wonder that the player who does the same map set for 1 single player ends getting nothing at all most of the time.
I do not need more stats to innately feel that something is absolutely wrong here
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
The real question is whether this is intentional or a bug.
we got a 'we didn't change anything' line from some dev, but in light of the deafening silence in the face of well documented evidence that something is wrong I'm starting to wonder if that was some Statesman weasel-speak.
Like, "well, we didn't change anything- your invisible teammates are stealing all the drops, just like on a REGULAR 8 player team!"
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I remember reading a post like that but have been unable to find it again. The closest post I found was related to ticket drops on the new difficulty settings, which I believe is also gone now.
Considering that I play mostly redside, I was hoping for a more abundant market as well as an increased profit from drop-farming. I just ran through two story arcs set for 8 and the total recipe drops had a profit of about 1 mil.
Quote:
I tend to agree with this.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
we got a 'we didn't change anything' line from some dev, but in light of the deafening silence in the face of well documented evidence that something is wrong I'm starting to wonder if that was some Statesman weasel-speak.
Like, "well, we didn't change anything- your invisible teammates are stealing all the drops, just like on a REGULAR 8 player team!" |
The only real way to test this is get 8 ppl on the same server and test a map in dozens of configurations of team size/location and "virtual team size". In other words stop playing the game and become unpaid Err paying QA techs for a week or two.
I find it disheartening that their own internal development and QA people (who should be far more equipped to gather this type of statistical data) haven't discovered this "anomaly" and corrected it already. But then again thinking back to the "half sized ticket drops on teams" bug that went all the way through beta and wasn't fixed until a week or so later. So maybe in a couple of weeks they'll fix this too.
ETA:
Or maybe this is WAI ... but I sure hope not.
Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
Quote:
It's worse than that, actually. Costume recipes aren't in the same drop pool as anything else, so those runs you quoted only yielded three Pool A recipes. Without knowing the total mob count, I can't calculate a drop rate, but I think I have that map saved and can see about thrashing it with my fire/fire tanker later tonight. I almost burned myself out on the game testing drop rates during beta, though, so no promises.|
Originally Posted by Celestial_Fury
This is SO wrong! It is sad.
4 Recipes for fighting all the mobs set for 7 players ?!! Now this is no wonder that the player who does the same map set for 1 single player ends getting nothing at all most of the time. I do not need more stats to innately feel that something is absolutely wrong here |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tonality
I remember reading a post like that but have been unable to find it again. The closest post I found was related to ticket drops on the new difficulty settings, which I believe is also gone now.
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My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
Quote:
Man with all the work you put into this you should get some special "more dedicated than us" badge from the devs. or a few months "free" game time in a "here's your game time back" gesture.
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
I almost burned myself out on the game testing drop rates during beta, though, so no promises.
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Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
Quote:
I don't mind waiting, as long as they fix it.
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Originally Posted by _23X_
So maybe in a couple of weeks they'll fix this too.
ETA: Or maybe this is WAI ... but I sure hope not. |
My fear is that it is working as intended as a way to counteract drop-farming. I play redside, and a drop reduction would further cripple the market.
I'll be posting my runs tonight from herostats. It won't be pretty, but it will get the job done.
Quote:
This is sort of result is what I'm currently getting on the Umai Kemen Axis America map set for +3 level x 8. The only difference being is that I end up with 1 or 2 pieces of rare salvage, but typically only 4-5 recipes tops.|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
-1 level x7 spawn size
Unai Kemen Zombie map. Salvage 5 Fortune 4 Ruby 3 Nevermelting Ice 1 Thorn Tree vine 1 Psionic Threat Report 1 Demonic Threat Report Recipes 1 Costume Piece: Piston Boots (1) 1 Rope-a-dope: End/Stun (47) 1 Invention: Endurance Reduction (50) 1 Invention: Run (50) |
I'll post my results later after 3 or 4 runs.
Quote:
There are a lot of people who put more time into this beta than I did. Just on this topic, UberGuy and Archie Gremlin put in a ton of work (to name two of several), with Archie developing a great tool to help everyone quantify what we're seeing. That was a ton easier than me manually copy-pasting one screen of drop logs at a time out of the program and into word. |
Originally Posted by _23X_
Man with all the work you put into this you should get some special "more dedicated than us" badge from the devs. or a few months "free" game time in a "here's your game time back" gesture.
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If there's a bug here, I just wish I'd been able to figure out what it was.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
It seems herostats isn't cooperating with me tonight, so I'll use dropstats. As far as I could tell, all I have to do is feed it a CoH log, so I'll feed it today's log that I just created.
I hope it's a bug... and not a stealth nerf or "working as intended"... because if that's the case i fear my interest for CoX will go down pretty fast. I keep my sub running for 2 months now and i've played like 10 times... with i 16 out i'm still bored with the game, mainly because of all the AE nerfs and how the market is getting out of control. If it becomes even harder to make a build now... Then i'm out. That's my favorite thing in game and i feel the drop rates already too low.
Farming for hours and hours and hours is not fun and it doesn't make up for the lack of content.
Dark armor lover.
The Claws/DA Scrapper guide.
Quote:
I think this is where most of my enjoyment comes from is tweaking out the best power house build I can. I plan something in mids, spend a pile of inf in making it happen, then play test it and spend more piles tweaking it just so. |
Originally Posted by Celidya
If it becomes even harder to make a build now... Then i'm out. That's my favorite thing in game and i feel the drop rates already too low.
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Playing my tank last night some PuG scrapper asked " do you ever take damage, your green bar hasn't moved in 3 missions" .... or on my Fire/Rad being told by a blaster to slow down and let other people attack too ... Those are the moments I enjoy ...
...well that and selling IOs for the inf cap.
Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
Quote:
If this is the case, then a lot more than the drop rate will be wrong.|
Originally Posted by Tonality
My fear is that it is working as intended as a way to counteract drop-farming. I play redside, and a drop reduction would further cripple the market.
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The devs told us outright that this was not supposed to change.
I think all the evidence is that it did change. That means they changed it without meaning to, a.k.a. it's a bug.
At least that better be the deal. The alternative would be amazingly dumb, because fairly obviously, people like those in this thread would find out and post extremely convincing evidence of the change.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Last week, I PM'd Synapse with a link to this thread. His reply was that they are going to be watching the drop rates closely, because their datamining was not showing the same results as what we're reporting in this thread, and that nothing in reward coding was changed. This is a bug, and not intended. Hopefully we'll hear something about it soon, and hopefully they specifically datamine drop rates for different virtual team sizes and different enemy rankings per team size. My own thoughts are that it's a combination of virtual teammates and a lowered reward rate for Lt's and bosses.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
I wanted to give a map I plan to work on for vanguard merits a try on this run.
8x+0 difficulty.
Bosses enabled.
----------------------------------
Archie Gremlin's Drop Stats v0.2.1
http://www.glasspaw.com/dropstats/
----------------------------------
WARNING - too many mobs of unknown rank to calculate drop rates (more than 3%)
493 rewarding mobs defeated
60 bosses and elite bosses
57 lieutenants
177 minions
110 underlings (XP only)
89 rewarding mobs of unknown rank
Rikti Raid Leader (1)
the raid and the peace treaty has been signed. (1)
Restructurist Chief Soldier (2)
War Lineage Mesmerist (1)
War Chief Soldier (2)
Guardian (47) failed heuristic rank check
Chief Mentalist (35) failed heuristic rank check
0 pets and 50 greys
506 inf/debt rewards
1216520 inf
16392 prestige
65 vanguard merits
10 Pool A recipes (Mob Defeats)
1 uncommon and rare recipes
Red Fortune: Endurance (Recipe)
9 common recipes
42 salvage
2 rare
9 uncommon
31 common
5 single origin enhancements
38 inspirations (1 tier 3, 11 tier 2, 26 tier 1, 0 special)
1 other drops
Temp Power: Ethereal Shift
Today's data:
427 minions
174 lieutenants
Expected recipes: 20.67 ((427*.026667)+(174*.053333))
Realized recipes: 6
So, 29% of what it should have been.
I had also PM'd Synapse to make sure he was aware of this thread, and am glad to know it's on their radar.
I've done most of my testing with 50s. Has anyone tried tweaking the new setting that controls whether or not you earn xp when exemplared to see if that does anything to a 50? It's tied to rewards, at least, and it's something I haven't tried yet...
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
I wasn't running herostats for the last two days, but I do know in 4 hours of running 8 man spawns (day one a -1 and day 2 at 0) I thought I received 10 total recipes, but remembered I ran a LGTF yesterday also and the Posi's blast I received definatley came from there. Tomorrow I will try to get Herostats to work, but I do know the drop rates for recipes are NOT what I expected them to be when running missions set for 8 man teams. Salvage is another story.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
So are the dev's gonna run away from this, Or just admit they are wrong?
With they way everything is drop rates, and mass amounts of bugs. I really see no point playing till they can fix this crap....
I noted. Something Really Really Odd.
I Ran 5 Defeat All Villains In Area(Demon Map:Hero Side) leaving 1 mob alive, -1, 6 man for the following results:
11 Recipes, 3 of those being Invention
13 Recipes, 2 being Invention
9 Recipes, 4 being Invention
14, 5 being invention
12 Recipes, 2 Being Invention.
Now the variation of the recipes is somewhat expected, seeing as how i skip a group, the variation is rather wide, but after being hinted by another player.
I Ran The "Close Dimensional Ruptures", A farm map hero side with Axis Enemies, or maybe council, but the spawns between it and the Demon Map are within 5 of each other, so relatively close results are to be expected. Again -1 for 6 man:
3 Recipes, 0 Inventions
9 Recipes, 2 Inventions
1 Recipe, 0 Inventions
5 Recipes, 0 Inventions
>>Definetly something is not quite right. The variation in the drop rate on the Demon map is near my Pre-16 Numbers of 12-15 a map, but my numbers on the Council map are wildly varying and absurdly lower to the 14-15 i would get before hand per map.
Somethings going on here ((Nemisis Plot))
Quote:
I can't even get a replicable "good" map. I should go back to Ouroboros and get the TV Don map again. That was the only map since beta started that I got greater than or equal to the expected number of drops for ANY run.|
Originally Posted by Not_Epsilon
>>Definetly something is not quite right. The variation in the drop rate on the Demon map is near my Pre-16 Numbers of 12-15 a map, but my numbers on the Council map are wildly varying and absurdly lower to the 14-15 i would get before hand per map.
Somethings going on here ((Nemisis Plot)) |
I ran the demon map once tonight. Got 3 common recipes (I think), no sets. Spawned at 0/6 to minimize the number of scaled-down bosses.
Then swapped back to my brute and ran a few more missions at +1/8.
433 minions, 143 lieutenants.
Got 13 salvage (if temp powers are in Pool A; if not, 12). Projected number was 19.17. So I did twice as well as in my last set of runs, but twice as well as "cruddy" still puts me below 70% of published drop rates. That's not outside margin of error for a sample size of 576, but included in the aggregate data collected since beta started, it continues to make the case that the drop rates are lower than they should be.
To note: This set of data was collected with myself set to "No XP/double inf when exemplared" rather than "Earn XP", and while there was an improvement, it's my suspicion that this setting is also not the culprit.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
I might fire up Hero Stats and help here. I was seriously doubting the existance of this until I ran my council runs. If you need some help collecting data, I can offer farmers on both sides, quite a few different maps. I'm Not quite sure what exactly you need, so if you would post it here, PM it to me or contact me IG i would happily help gather some data.
I am still rather sure the demon map was droppin the right drops when i was using it today, this problem is rather.. Elusive?
I suggest, if you're running tests, do a similar number of tests with x2, x4, and x8 difficulties. It seems to me that x2 approaches the pre-I16 drop rates, while x4 is a bit lower and x8 is significantly lower. Most of the runs in this thread were x6 or x8, and the only ones that came pretty close to the old drop rate were the cargo ship, set for x2 so it spawned only minions.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
-1 level x7 spawn size
Unai Kemen Zombie map.
Salvage
5 Fortune
4 Ruby
3 Nevermelting Ice
1 Thorn Tree vine
1 Psionic Threat Report
1 Demonic Threat Report
Recipes
1 Costume Piece: Piston Boots (1)
1 Rope-a-dope: End/Stun (47)
1 Invention: Endurance Reduction (50)
1 Invention: Run (50)
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
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