Notes on new team difficulty settings
By
Abigail Frost,
Posted on: 2009-08-26 15:02 in The Market and Inventions
To everyone that is proclaiming drop rates are back to normal, i pose one question, Are you running only solo?
I ask this because i see an improvement in recipie drop rate while running solo, even though they are all IO's.
Running with one sk Still nets me zero-one recipie per run at +2 x6 or 8, while the sk pulls in maybe 3-4 per run. i've run into this problem on blueside on demons, freaks, carnies & rikti farms since the patch. likewise on red side with nemesis, crey & possessed scientist farms.
If this is the case & the ssk system is screwing up my or anyone elses drops then with the exception of tf's & sf's this game has become for me city of solo.
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Yes. The distribution across team members has always been strange, and it's been shown a few times that if you want drops, you're better off solo than teamed. It's even easier to see now, though, since you can observe what the drops would be solo on a map spawned for six or eight; adding another person, best case, probably cuts your drops in half.|
Originally Posted by Voided_Soul
To everyone that is proclaiming drop rates are back to normal, i pose one question, Are you running only solo?
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If there's a bug in the distribution of drops across team members (and I don't doubt that such is possible, though I've not seen any hard data on it), that's independent of what we were seeing and what the devs fixed.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
Inspirations 161 107 53 1
What VR insp did you get?
The more people I meet, the more I'm beginning to root for the zombies.
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One other point to make about this. The examples you used regarding steaks, milk, and peanut butter are all matters of taste (literally). For those types of things there can be no argument. How can someone else tell you how or why to like something?| So, the question is… what is it about computer games that cause most people to doubt customer complaint? |
With regard to the game, I don't think many would argue with you if you said you didn't like superhero based games, or MMOs in general. (Someone WILL always argue with you on the Internet).
But if you tell a gamer or a developer, when I do 'X', I get 'Z' as a result, when everyone else gets 'Y' as a result and the game was programmed to give 'Y' as a result, they demand more information or dismiss your findings.
It is the equivalent of saying, "when I put two apples in a bowl already containing two apples, I see 5 apples." Naturally people will question your eyesight and ability to count.
But programming and science are a little more complicated than that. If you add two grams of a chemical compound into a vial containing two grams of the same chemical compound and get five grams you will get the same skepticism and questioning. But every so often it turns out you are right. The chemical compounds interacted with the vial, or the air, or some contaminant in a strange and unexpected way and you really do have five grams.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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Im guessing thats total small medium large. Hopefully Archie can confirm
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Originally Posted by pyrite
Inspirations 161 107 53 1
What VR insp did you get? |
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Yep.
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Im guessing thats total small medium large. Hopefully Archie can confirm
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Adding to this, it's extremely difficult to make anything like the analysis we did here unless you run solo. When you're on a team you can't correlate drops with defeats, because you defeat things that give their drops to other people, and you get drops for things other people defeated. Even if you gathered all the logs for the whole team it would still be a daunting task, and that assumes everyone's log timestamps were perfectly in sync.
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
Yes. The distribution across team members has always been strange, and it's been shown a few times that if you want drops, you're better off solo than teamed. It's even easier to see now, though, since you can observe what the drops would be solo on a map spawned for six or eight; adding another person, best case, probably cuts your drops in half.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Im sure theres someone out there 8-boxxing who could, if so inclined, run an effective test for 8 people....that most assuredly would not be me, I get confused if the phone rings while Im playing
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Thank you for your explanation. It makes it more clear. I appreciate the time, and the apple example was excellent, thanks.|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
One other point to make about this. The examples you used regarding steaks, milk, and peanut butter are all matters of taste (literally). For those types of things there can be no argument. How can someone else tell you how or why to like something?
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I tend to use food for most of my examples, for politics, religion, even entertainment, because it tends to be less emotional.
For example, on IMBD, about TV shows, some people want a show to be cancelled. That gets me going. Don't like it, great. Don't watch it. But wanting it cancelled means... (Here's another food example)...
(not liking a TV show, so you don't watch it) = If you don't like a sandwich at a restaurant, don't buy it.
(not liking a TV show, so you want it cancelled) = If you don't like a sandwich at a restaurant, you complain until it's off the menu. But that way, *I* can't buy it, and *I* like it.
i.e. turn the dial, don't petition for it to go off the air.
So some people got it, and downgraded their posts to "Well, *I* won't watch and I'll tell friends with the same taste as me to avoid it" which is perfectly fine.
Course that example also opened the "Its very existence offends me" can of worms, and, well, you don't win against some people.
But that's why I use food.
So, again, thanks.
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I've been thinking about this problem and I think it's do-able as long as certain conditions are met. They are:|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Adding to this, it's extremely difficult to make anything like the analysis we did here unless you run solo. When you're on a team you can't correlate drops with defeats, because you defeat things that give their drops to other people, and you get drops for things other people defeated. Even if you gathered all the logs for the whole team it would still be a daunting task, and that assumes everyone's log timestamps were perfectly in sync.
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- you have log files for all team members
- the team doesn't change for the duration of each test run
- the team members stick together
I don't think it's necessary to synchronise the logs precisely. All you need to do is use a team chat message to mark the start of the session in everyone's log and another one to mark the end. The exact timing of the bits in between don't matter.
My strategy is to count the "you have defeated xxx" messages in each log and the number of drops in each log. This gives the total number of drops and defeats and also each player's share of the total. It should then be possible to see if the overall drop rate is the same as a solo toon and if each player got a fair share of the loot.
The problem would be latency. If we're on a team together, it's possible for me to see messages from teammate A before teammate B, while you see them in the reverse order. If everyone has a good, stable internet connection and nothing funky happens, it should be fine. However, the game itself gets wonky if there's enough action going on. It sometimes does not deliver messages about defeats at all. I've never noticed it fail to tell me if I got a reward, however. I have seen it fail to tell me who defeated something or that I was delivering or receiving damage.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Does it ever fail to deliver messages about your own defeats or just other peoples?
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
It sometimes does not deliver messages about defeats at all.
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I've seen both happen. Not terribly often; it usually takes a lot of action for that to happen. What's not clear to me is what factors affect it. Server load? Client load? The size of my network pipe? I couldn't say.
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Originally Posted by Archie Gremlin
Does it ever fail to deliver messages about your own defeats or just other peoples?
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Uber is always bragging about the size of his network pipe. Dude, give it a rest.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
I loaded my 50 scrapper the other day set difficulty to times 8, +1 level and no bosses; i ran through a mish solo and killed ten mobs and got only three recipe drops; the problem with that tho they were only chuberic wings recipe drops and thought getting only three of those was kind aweird and logged off since i wasnt getting anything else besides inspirations.
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lol how fast are you expecting to rack up the recipes. 3 recipes for 10 mobs is pretty dam good, no one said farming didnt take time...
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Originally Posted by lordwhitey
I loaded my 50 scrapper the other day set difficulty to times 8, +1 level and no bosses; i ran through a mish solo and killed ten mobs and got only three recipe drops; the problem with that tho they were only chuberic wings recipe drops and thought getting only three of those was kind aweird and logged off since i wasnt getting anything else besides inspirations.
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I don't even look at my drops until I fill up.|
Originally Posted by lordwhitey
I loaded my 50 scrapper the other day set difficulty to times 8, +1 level and no bosses; i ran through a mish solo and killed ten mobs and got only three recipe drops; the problem with that tho they were only chuberic wings recipe drops and thought getting only three of those was kind aweird and logged off since i wasnt getting anything else besides inspirations.
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I find it best to view individual runs as bricks in the wall, not the wall itself.
What looks sad and wan after one run could well be a mighty bastion after ten runs.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Ok.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I've seen both happen. Not terribly often; it usually takes a lot of action for that to happen. What's not clear to me is what factors affect it. Server load? Client load? The size of my network pipe? I couldn't say.
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This means that the method of calculating drop rates from team play that I gave above will tend to overestimate drop rates a little.
It won't affect an analysis of whether drops are assigned fairly as that doesn't require the number of defeats, just the team size.
apropos my last comment, my fire/rad filled up his recipe bag on one and a half runs through his zombie map spawned for 8.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Anyone got feeling that drop rates are borked again?
I've been running a lot of missions here and there set for 0/x6/y/n, and according to dropstats, been getting Pool A drops below estimated low threshold fairly consistently.
Completely non-scientifically, yes. I have noticed a reduction in recipe drops, especially any sets. I still seem to get a normal or slightly less than normal amount of generic recipes.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Using dropstats and just running since the last patch, I am seeing normal drops in terms of percentage per mobs.
The expected 32:8:1 (Common:uncommon:rare) is close to what I have seen for common/uncommon ratio and I'm above the expectation in rares.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Drops 'feel' normal to me.
Verified w/ dropstats teh last couple weeks.
Maybe I'm just having an unlucky streak.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
It's not scientific, but let me say this: this is the first time i've ever played and had my recipes inventory fill up in less than 3 missions.
The new difficulty system was definitely a factor (played at +0/x6), but dayum.
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)