MeanNVicious

Ha thanks. Yea at first I wasnt going to burn it, but I realized I could market more over time. I will say converting that much into prestige took FOREVER !!! LoL.

That being said after all this time later my liquid worth is actually close to 1.5 trillion. Again thats liquid not including IO's and whats slotted on toons.

I have a couple bases loaded with IO's for building anything at any time. All pvp, procs, purples, rares, and a tidy pile of 52-53 HO's. Nothing else in base if the cost vs storage wasnt worth it, lol. Then you include whats on my toons and my total worth is pretty astronomical on top of the liquid.

Sadly with the recent news its almost heart breaking knowing it will all "poof" in not too long.

But it was a hell of a run, and I think I can take the title 'top dog' down with me, rofl.

Too bad they didnt allow me to throw everything into a pot and put my name on city hall or something LoL.

Not quite all. I've been the founding member of the trillionaire club for a long long time now, and I have yet to have the pleasure of inducting another member.

Tis lonely at the top, no one to play chess with on Sunday afternoons over tea.

Psst ... according to Nether and some others, that isnt possible to maintain as you have. Is you hax ?!?

Just being snarky, not trying to reignite the debate rofl ! Bein as i was right n all

Wheres my monocle and tea cup, I know I left them here somewhere ...

The platinum framed monocle with a big diamond for the lense, which I only pretend to look through cause I cant see crap through it anyways. The solid platinum cup and saucer completely overlaid with diamonds, even on the inside of the cup, and which I can't drink tea out of because it tastes like crap from the glue I used to stick all the diamonds in there ... I really should have had it professionally done, but I was excited and in a hurry. Dont even get me started on the tuxedo made of real gold, done in finely woven wires, which weighs a frickin' ton and chafes like you would NOT believe !!!

But yea I make a bit of influence on the market

The maximized profits occur in this scenario. You dont have to compete much if you dont want to. You compete some, but only enough to profit.

I personally like to hit and run as often as anything. However there have been a number of items over these last few years where I was the only manipulator. In that case theres no need to leave. I've sat solo on a number of items for weeks to months at a time. That is the sweet spot.

Correct. That is the part I like to call savvy. There are a lot of factors and ways to game an item. You can fight with competition to a certain extent. This is some of where Nethers price ceiling mechanic can come in. However it can be surmounted with the right conditions. Thought - what do you think happens when your competition realizes he's no longer profiting (hint - he leaves the item). What happens when you're alone again in that item (hint - back to full profit). During competition, profits go down. Competition is not constant. My experience is that once people see their item collapse they cut losses at some point. Most do this fairly quickly. How often have some of you done this ? I have in fact been willing to go into loss a couple of times to chase out the competition. Overall profit does come again when you are the last manipulator standing. I dont prefer going into loss. However a willingness to do it will take you through to new profits more often than not. With some items how deep your pockets are and how much you are willing to put into play can mean everything.

Profit is profit. Manipulation has occurred I have influenced a result in my favor.

So in fact with the above post have just fully and I mean FULLY agreed with me - why in world are you still saying i'm wrong ?!? I mean are you even reading what i'm posting ? ROFL, dude thats insane of you. Fail. I mean take that a step further and you are fully agreeing with A_F in that post as well. You have officially 100% contradicted yourself. Well done.

And behold again you are FULLY agreeing with me. ROFL.

You really just do not get this definition thing do you. I have given you a dictionary definition and provided a real example of it. You are using a definition based on a different meaning. I have not seen you define yours. Yet you still try and say the DICTIONARY definition is wrong ?!?

You have failed.

Here you are demonstrating your use of a broad ranging term that applies to much farther ranging areas and applications, than you have narrowly applied to it. You are destroying your ability to effectively debate a topic. You are confusing others and creating a debate over nothing more than your narrowly conceived ideas. More fail.

This is real head scratching. Since the "story" was as fully relevant to the discussion as you can get. Yet, you are trying to say it is not relevant ? I mean have you even taken the time to really understand what I'm saying ? That you essentially agree with everything I'm saying, but somehow are trying to say you are not ?!? ROFL.

And again you have failed.


Totally understandable. I am making simple and direct explanations with accurate examples, but they are still beyond your grasp. From your challenged standpoint it is obviously best to run and hide from the bad mans logic that is too glaringly obviously true to counter? ROFL.

And that is the summation of fail. You have fully succeeded in your failure. Luckily I'm on ignore now or else your ego would probably explode and you'd cancel your sub. Just wow, lol.

Two comments: 1) From the perspective of raising prices, there has been a price increase correct ? 2) The lowering of the highest price is ONLY valid if you have competition in an item. There are times when you dont. When you dont have immediate competition, this point is invalid. When competition is introduced, see above.

Do you not understand that you are saying first and foremost that there is an increase in price ? You are saying this. You are agreeing with the concept of a price increase. Saying the cap is lower, does NOT negate the fact that the floor has INCREASED. Nor does your comment account for the times of manipulation when YOU HAVE NO COMPETITORS in an item and will therefore NOT have a drop in the price ceiling (in fact it can go higher). See above.

Again you have failed.

Manipulation for profit is still manipulation for profit.

Again this is a "closed" economy in a GAME world. A number of the real world marketing factors which are espoused here on the forum which would hinder manipulation are simply not present and/or not even a factor in what happens on the market. This needs to be remembered before you try and apply real world mechanics to the game and say, "hey thats how it works".

All I'm really trying to say is manipulation is real. I have done it extremely successfully. A LOT of others have done it successfully as well. I see this thought as being contested in a number of posts. When in fact making profit through manipulation is real. Simple.

It seems that what a few of you are fighting with A_F about is how much of an effect this has on buyers. I dont care about that end of the discussion.

I am simply throwing in with the thought that manipulation is real, it can be done, and it can be done profitably. And on that thought I see an awful lot of agreement. Is this not something we can all agree on ?

You clearly state that the price goes up. Sure there is some more effect you want to clarify in your statement. However as you state the price go up. That is what you have said and agreed to.

Question & Simplified (but real) example :
- A low volume item. 10 Present on the market.
- You buy them all between 8 and 15 million.
- You relist at 35 million each.
- Someone decides they need one at that moment. Pays 35 million.
- They have now paid ~25'ish million more than they would have before you acted.
** You just changed the price on that item for that person. The price was increased.

A lot of factors can and will be involved. But there is a lot of ways to play them. Sure its not always "buy at x" straight to "sell at y" every time, depending on what you might have to contend with. But profit can be made. The more savvy you are, the more profit you make.

So, are you saying this does not work ? Have I not manipulated (aka, influenced to create a situation I desired) ? Has someone not paid more than they would have otherwise.

Based on a lot of posts in this thread alone, let alone numerous examples in other threads and posts over time, this has been proven to work. It would seem there are an awful lot of "YES" answers.

If using the relevant definition versions of manipulation:
"to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage"
"shrewd or devious management, especially for one's own advantage"
"behavior that influences someone or controls something in a clever or dishonest way"

Then I am in fact manipulating. Though what I'm doing can be seen as "unfair, insidious, or dishonest", its not actually my goal to be that way, lol. But I am influencing and controlling, and my goal in that respect is profit.

The definition is quite broad. As its stated in the dictionaries. What you are saying is YOU have created a different definition of the word manipulation that I dont seem to be adhering to. Therefore because you made up something or have misused a definition, that "I" am somehow wrong ? That says a LOT about your statements right there.

Im playing in a virtual reality. You are playing in virtual confusion. It would seem because you are assuming others know YOUR definition of manipulation, which is by example different than the dictionary version, that you are the one providing "value free" information. You should fix that.

Disingenuous, but real.

Ahhh, is that how it works. See above, lol.

On a more straight forward thought - is all this really just a definition problem most of us understand how this all works, but we are fighting because terms are being used that are being defined and viewed differently ? That's funny, and so typical, rofl.

Apparently not as I'm overly successful. I did clarify a thought that flipping is a part of manipulation but not the entirety of it. Maybe that helps and if not, meh. Its results that truly count. If you are going to still say there is error, when there is overwhelming success, then I can't argue farther than that, as you're logic would seem to be at a crossroads at that point. Me = insane profits, actually proven. You = you cant do that. Me = but I did it.

Simplest thing I'm trying to say is this:

Can the market be manipulated for profit ? Yes. A LOT of profit.

Can it be done consistently ? Yes.

Have I done it ? Yes, yes, and oh my yes.

Ha ha ! I remember those days ! I would drool at the numbers being posted. I asked everyone I knew, begged, and tried to deal, to find out what was going on. However the folks in the know kept it secret and I didnt learn how it was done until after the nerf when folks started talking and bragging.

I miss the Kiosks !!! Are they ever going to bring them back ? *Sniff* So much could be learned.

In relation to this thread they might also help to work in to calculating influence in the game.

Topdoc's is active at least. Probably accounts for quite a bit of it right there, he he.

I can see that occurring in this thread now. In the past I would come across A_F's post and they had good points, and he usually kept up a decent representation of his point without the personal attacks.

This thread does seem to be considerably more aggressive than I've encountered in the past

The market manipulation thoughts are generally on point. Which is why I'd always been surprised by such arguments against them. Often too I find posters in one post saying "market manipulation is not real, cant happen, or isn't controllable", then in another thread I'll see the same poster say "yep its real, this is what I did with it", or other positive examples of it are noted. So different statements from the same people.

Wow, lol, how quickly you forget. And here I thought our small race to inf to prestige in SG's had been at least remembered. For someone who makes so many attempts to get folks to destroy inf, you "might" have remembered me burning off 750 billion'ish in a certain #2 SG on freedom. I think we all agreed at the time that was "provable" , lol.

Still an awful lot of liquid around too, so yes I have really gotten that much more.

Maybe I was a little naive but I thought there were at least a couple of us who hit that mark some time ago.

I don't drink the tea, since I don't relish the thought of making people cry like that, however the swims definitely keep me in shape - the pool is big, gets some good laps in.

After playing the market game for so long in so many niches, the game has already been played so to speak. Though this is intriguing and has potential, once you've already hit the point of ridiculous wealth and holdings, its a matter of more effort for no real further benefit. Also initially there should be some incredible volatility to contend with. Maybe down the road when the matrices are more predictable, and more efficient method established, it'll be worth doing as a side dabble for easier infusions. The biggest limiting factor as Ive always contended is having adequate investment resources to kick of any venture. If you have enough throw away resources to start of a venture you can make some insane profits. Your outline above shows some of the scale of thinking needed.

When you hit that point you will be inducted into a VERY elite club. It's very lonely, but the stories are fun The china is platinum etched, and very delicate, so don't go bringing any over sized clumsy characters to the ceremony.