Confession of a power gaming junkie


Arcanaville

 

Posted

Around Jan 8 I finally went to the beta server and saw how Enhancement Converters really worked. A single Hero Merit gets 10 Converters. A single Converter will convert a cheap purple into a random purple. I can run the WWD#1 arc in around 8 minutes for a hero merit. I have probably 100 chars level 20+. After I "confirm" their alignment, I can earn around 6 Hero Merits per hour, and convert 60 cheap purples into random purples. If I spend 10 hours every week I can convert 600 cheap purples into random purples. It takes on average 2 conversions to turn a cheap purple into a damage purple, so that's 10 hours to convert 300 cheap purples into damage ones. My first thought was "What are the Devs thinking?" My second thought was "How can I use this to improve my characters?"

What will happen when these go live? There are a lot of purples produced in the game, but demand is high enough that the damage ones go for around a half billion each. The other ones sell for more like 100M, but some like Sleeps have historically been more like 1M. The future was clear to me. Anyone with a brain and a little greed will buy cheap purples and convert them to good ones. The day Enhancement Converters go live people will earn about 200M/converter. The price on cheap purples will go up, while the expensive ones will go down. When will it stop? My guess is around the time cheap purples hit 150-200M, and expensive ones hit 250-300M. There's enough demand and Inf in the system that purple prices won't crash hard. What else are people going to buy with their Inf? Converters will nearly double the supply of damage oriented purple sets but at the cost of non-damage sets. Sorry all you Doms and Controllers who liked cheap purples.

People could also convert PvP IOs. I know from my farming that I have a WHOLE LOT of junk PvP IOs. While the supply is small, the demand is even smaller, except for a few. Most PvP IOs go for under 50M, a few go for around 2B, and there are a handfull in the middle. It will take a lot more Converters to turn PvP IOs into good ones. But the supply of junk is large. Anyone with 10 minutes and 20M can have 10 chances at converting a junk PvP IO into platinum. Honestly, it isn't that hard to use converters to get the ones going for 2B. Maybe it takes 3 runs of WWD#1, convert out-of-set till you get one of the 3 good sets, then convert in-set till you get the proc. I expected prices on the middle PvP IOs to crash, and even the 2B ones will go down to under 500M pretty fast. I thought most Panaceas would keep a decent price due to PvE demand, but the H/E and H/R have already crashed. In the end, I believe the return will not be as high as using Converters on purples. The day Enhancement Converters go live people will be able to earn decent returns on them. I plan to do in-set conversion of Glad Armor: End/Rech IOs on about 20 of my chars, and I'll sell the resulting estimated 12 Glad Armor: Procs for 1 Inf. On day 2, I'll be VERY surprised if any PvP IO is over 1B.

People could also convert Rare and Uncommon IOs, but that's a waste of time compared to purples. Converting Kinetic Combat: KD to another in the set is 3 converters for an average profit of maybe 75M, or 25M/converter. No other set has enough expensive pieces for in set conversion to be worthwhile, and out of set conversions are worse.

Then I think on Jan 10 the Beta build went live. That means the Devs could turn on Enhancement Converters anytime they wanted. What should I do about it? Obviously sell anything expensive. I got nervous, so I decided to sell fast. I had a fair stock of damage purples for chars I was working on, and for Mrs. TopDoc. I sold them all. I had a huge stock of PvP IOs from farming. I sold anything worthwhile. I started a thread here to sell my top end PvP IOs at a discount. Other people followed suit, and PvP prices are still going down.

I used that Inf to buy purples. In Arcanna's words, "hoover up the entire purple market". It was a LOT of Inf. I started buying, and increasing my price to get more and more. I already had a huge stock of PvP IOs, so I could convert those given time to as many of the good ones as I needed for my personal use. But I wanted enough purples to purple every one of my 50s, and all the ones I was leveling up, and all of Mrs. TopDoc's characters, and all the ones I may make in the future. I was aiming to buy 1000 purples.

A single base can hold 1800 Enhancements when loaded with 18 Enhancement Storage bins. I had to start shipping them off to a second base because my first base was almost full. I can't stop. The future is clear to me. When Enhancement Converters go live, I'll be able to turn silver into gold. Why should I stop buying silver?

What really confuses me is why almost no one else is doing what I'm doing. The profit potential is HUGE!!! I may become a trillionaire. I have seen other bids here and there. For a while I was in a bidding war with someone bidding X,090,000 or something like that, but then those stopped. According to Arcanna I pushed her out of the market because I drove up prices too high. Too high?


Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304

 

Posted

Would this be a good time to recommend counseling?

Fascinating analysis, and interesting project TopDoc.

I haven't done anything at all regarding converters and I probably won't,
but I'll be very curious to see how it all unfolds.

I'll be especially curious to see what your effective exchange rate per converter
turns out to be.


GL, HF,
4


I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.

 

Posted

I played EVE Online and market a lot there and asked myself the question of why more people don't do marketing in these games.

It has voice channels in game, so I would just ask people why they did not market since it is the best way to make money and you end up being the richest people in the game. The answer was quite simply some people HATE math/numbers and find it boring dealing with spreadsheets etc...

In the end some just don't find it fun no matter how much profit you show them they could make to buy that pimped out part they wanted.


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopDoc View Post
What really confuses me is why almost no one else is doing what I'm doing. The profit potential is HUGE!!! I may become a trillionaire. I have seen other bids here and there. For a while I was in a bidding war with someone bidding X,090,000 or something like that, but then those stopped. According to Arcanna I pushed her out of the market because I drove up prices too high. Too high?
After you purple-out the main 50s you play... what need is there for any more Inf? Through A-Merits and E-Merits, people are getting their own Purples and PvP Procs. So, again, what are you going to do with a Trillion INF? Grief the Auction House forcing everyone to turn to Tickets?


Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

 

Posted

I've been doing this on a much smaller scale. I didn't have that many damage purples sitting around unused to sell off. I'm down to the lowest amount of liquid inf on hand that I have been since the market merger and I have a stockpile in my base, but it's nowhere remotely close to what you've got. I just don't have that kind of capital to invest.


@Quasadu

"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopDoc View Post
What really confuses me is why almost no one else is doing what I'm doing.
Too much work for little benefit *TO ME*.
Once my toons hit 50, they get semi-retired. Only a handful of them (3-4 out of 28) get significant play. Those are already IO'ed/purpled. Everyone else gets IO'ed ONCE at around level 35 and it's just not worth the effort to redo the build once they hit 50.

So, I only spend maybe 300-500 million per toon. It takes me probably 3 months to go from 1 to 50 with a new toon (due to playing the aforementioned handful of 50's). I'm already generating inf WAY faster than I'm spending it.

So..... another inf-making opportunity..... <yawn>


P.S. I'll reiterate my longstanding gripe - we need more purple sets. If we got purples for defense, resist and heal I would definitely re-visit some of my builds.


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironblade View Post
P.S. I'll reiterate my longstanding gripe - we need more purple sets. If we got purples for defense, resist and heal I would definitely re-visit some of my builds.
Yeppers.


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopDoc View Post
What really confuses me is why almost no one else is doing what I'm doing. The profit potential is HUGE!!! I may become a trillionaire. I have seen other bids here and there. For a while I was in a bidding war with someone bidding X,090,000 or something like that, but then those stopped. According to Arcanna I pushed her out of the market because I drove up prices too high. Too high?
'cause I've got things to do, mostly. I did some sell high/buy low like you're describing (I dumped my entire stash of damage purples) but ultimately there's only so much time I'm willing to spend on it. It'll suck when my stashes of mez purples run out, though, since I do like me some dominators and controllers.


@Mindshadow

 

Posted

Quote:
A single Hero Merit gets 10 Converters.
Holy ****. Now I understand why you're saying running trials is a stupid idea.

As for following your strategy... I'm already sitting on ~100 billion liquid influence and I don't know what to do with it. I resubbed 15 days ago partly because I didn't want those market bids storing the money to vanish, as at that point it was 59 days since I stopped paying. Yep, I guess I value pretendy pixel money I don't even have an use for in a game I don't even play anymore, because omgz there's a lot of zeroes in 100B. That's sad enough, and you want me to earn *more*?...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
Holy ****. Now I understand why you're saying running trials is a stupid idea.

As for following your strategy... I'm already sitting on ~100 billion liquid influence and I don't know what to do with it. I resubbed 15 days ago partly because I didn't want those market bids storing the money to vanish, as at that point it was 59 days since I stopped paying. Yep, I guess I value pretendy pixel money I don't even have an use for in a game I don't even play anymore, because omgz there's a lot of zeroes in 100B. That's sad enough, and you want me to earn *more*?...
... you could save me the hassle of stripping all of old BZB's IOs by giving me 10 billion.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
... you could save me the hassle of stripping all of old BZB's IOs by giving me 10 billion.
If only we had the ability to add "sponsored by" taglines to the character name display.


@Mindshadow

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopDoc View Post
What really confuses me is why almost no one else is doing what I'm doing. The profit potential is HUGE!!! I may become a trillionaire. I have seen other bids here and there. For a while I was in a bidding war with someone bidding X,090,000 or something like that, but then those stopped. According to Arcanna I pushed her out of the market because I drove up prices too high. Too high?
Because not everyone actually cares enough to do it.

I have ridden out every major storm in this game's market. Sometimes I have profited big. Sometimes I have lost lots of value. Sometimes it didn't really affect my net worth. But always I could have worked harder to earn more or lose less. But I didn't, and it hasn't affected me in ways I particularly care a lot about.

Look at your question another way. Why doesn't everyone play SS/Fire or SS/Brutes all the time? Why doesn't everyone PL their characters in the AE, even though it's arguably still the fastest way to 50?

The simple answer is that not everyone has an urge to do the most efficient thing all the time, even when they acknowledge its efficiency (and not all always do). You care more about this than, I'd wager, most of us here, and most of us here care about it more than a lot of other people who don't frequent these forum halls.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopDoc View Post
What really confuses me is why almost no one else is doing what I'm doing.
After playing the market game for so long in so many niches, the game has already been played so to speak. Though this is intriguing and has potential, once you've already hit the point of ridiculous wealth and holdings, its a matter of more effort for no real further benefit. Also initially there should be some incredible volatility to contend with. Maybe down the road when the matrices are more predictable, and more efficient method established, it'll be worth doing as a side dabble for easier infusions. The biggest limiting factor as Ive always contended is having adequate investment resources to kick of any venture. If you have enough throw away resources to start of a venture you can make some insane profits. Your outline above shows some of the scale of thinking needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopDoc View Post
I may become a trillionaire.
When you hit that point you will be inducted into a VERY elite club. It's very lonely, but the stories are fun The china is platinum etched, and very delicate, so don't go bringing any over sized clumsy characters to the ceremony.


Over the hills and through the woods.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosAngelGeno View Post
TopDoc is the 1%.
Or to quote Steven Colbert:

Quote:
He represents Seven / One-Millionths of One Percent.


Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanNVicious View Post
After playing the market game for so long in so many niches, the game has already been played so to speak. Though this is intriguing and has potential, once you've already hit the point of ridiculous wealth and holdings, its a matter of more effort for no real further benefit.
Besides, after a certain point, you have to realize that you're spending a fair amount of time doing stuff that some people do for their actual job that makes actual real money, and wether, if you really enjoy that, you might ought to look into trying to make money at it rather than spending money on it.

Granted, the world of high finance lacks a certain degree of, let's say, tights-wearing facepunchery, but what can you do?


@Mindshadow

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
I played EVE Online and market a lot there and asked myself the question of why more people don't do marketing in these games. ..

Cause it's not fun, boring and repetitive are my answers


Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
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Posted

There are plenty of us dabbling in the converter craze but doing so on the scale you suggest requires effort. Between multiple 12 hour shifts a week and taking classes, I dont have the energy or desire to do things on that scale. I only market on maybe 8-10 toons now compared to 12-15 of last year.

Additionally with prices set to drop and people like us already owning 'infinite influence', there isn't much of an outlet for such massive amounts of profit. Crazy 88s are mostly quiet now.


I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion View Post
Cause it's not fun, boring and repetitive are my answers
Yeppers heard this a million times.


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Two observations:

1) I am not doing this because I play mostly melee toons, and purples are dead weight in most of my builds. I consider +Def bonuses to be far more valuable than +Rech. I have..... 50-odd? Purples, in storage, just because I might someday want to use them. I have only slotted a couple of sets, and that in a Stone tanker build where the tradeoff of defense for recharge was worth it. Now that said, the advent of the ATO's is a very rich source of +defense, and may make one-two purples in a melee build 'worth it' to me....but I already have plenty for at least 3-4 pilot builds, and the resources to get as many more as I want. So I have no need for or desire for converting purples, especially since the only ones I want are set to drop soon.


2) Mass conversion is a volume game. I suspect that many people who are not filthy rich are going to be quickly discouraged when the RNG converts crap, to crap, to crap, to crap, and to crap yet again. Those are are unwilling or unable to 'roll the dice' on billion inf deals are not going to be doing this mass conversion stuff. Instead, they will cheerfully profit from selling crap purples to mass converters, and then rolling/buying things they need with their alignment merits. Both of those are 'sure things'. Why accept the risk?


Lastly, a prediction: I think the L10 Gladiator Armor Proc is going to hold value very VERY well. We'll see if I am correct.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
Lastly, a prediction: I think the L10 Gladiator Armor Proc is going to hold value very VERY well. We'll see if I am correct.
I hope so, or I ground those 30 Villain merits for nothing. I guess I could give it to my 33 locked Fire/Ice Tanker when I get around to IOing him.


Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopDoc View Post
What really confuses me is why almost no one else is doing what I'm doing. The profit potential is HUGE!!! I may become a trillionaire. I have seen other bids here and there. For a while I was in a bidding war with someone bidding X,090,000 or something like that, but then those stopped. According to Arcanna I pushed her out of the market because I drove up prices too high. Too high?
While I agree the profit potential is huge, I'm currently at the "so much Inf it's unwieldy" stage. I have more Inf than I can conveniently pack into one character, including maxed market slots and e-mail.

While yeah, I could stand to make lots more real quick, the problem of managing all that spare Inf would be the proverbial straw and I'd be vaguely camel-like.



Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopDoc View Post
What really confuses me is why almost no one else is doing what I'm doing. The profit potential is HUGE!!! I may become a trillionaire. I have seen other bids here and there. For a while I was in a bidding war with someone bidding X,090,000 or something like that, but then those stopped. According to Arcanna I pushed her out of the market because I drove up prices too high. Too high?
'Cause this was a rare case where I got there before you did and scooped up a ton of purples from 2-40 million. But at 100 million, the purple economy, while still having a lot of profit potential, is now closing in on the point where if too many people jump into it the profits will be harder to extract, requiring a lot more time marketeering to bid gap everyone else. For me, the equation started to become a bit too risky for the amount of time I put it.

Besides, the other thing I started doing is the same thing you did: take profits now. I took about 40 billion off the table immediately and stored some and turned some into prestige for future bases rather than sink it into more purples, because bird in the hand.

As to why more people aren't doing it, the fact is most people don't even think about it. When enhancement converters were announced and people were saying "what possible use could these have" I about fell out of my chair. I can understand why some players wouldn't use them, but the notion that they weren't extremely valuable made me realize most players do not think along these lines. Lets face it: there isn't much to spend the inf on when you amass it. After all these years, the devs still won't put the blimp on sale, so I can't spend inf on that.

Although, I saw a base the other day that literally blew my mind right in front of my face and made me want to tear into the base editor, so there's always prestige conversion.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopDoc View Post
What really confuses me is why almost no one else is doing what I'm doing.
I had the plan to buy up all the sleep purples, in preparation for Enhancement Converters, but when I checked the markets, the price was already too high for me (90m+). I'm not on as regularly as I used to be. A few years ago, I used to buy up the sleep recipes at silly prices, 10-100k mostly, and I'd sell them for 1-10m, so that price hike seemed too steep to me, regardless of how much I could have made.



I'm not a huge marketeer, I don't put a great deal of effort in, and it's never regular. I've something like 6-8b inf floating about. I'm cheap, though. If an IO is going for more than 50m, I'll use some form of merits to buy the recipe, usually whilst I'm still levelling. I've given away more than I've spent on my own characters.

With Incarnates, I play a couple of select 50's, and have been levelling a couple of others who will likely get retired at 50 like the others. I've began gradually respec'ing older toons, to remove their IO's, ten at a time. With Issue 22, I'll likely be down to a Dark/Dark Defender, Tank and Domi, and the rest will likely never get used, short of the markets. The Defender and Tank are already slotted to suit me perfectly, and neither of those have any purples. The Domi will be built for recharge, so I'll slot her with 5x5 sets.

But I've realised, I've enough inf to slot her up already and the prices will most likely drop for the damage purples. My base has all the bits I need, and I don't care about the leaderboards. I don't spend inf on anything else, and if I had a fortune, I'd more than likely just give most of it away to random people/events.



I had the idea to profit, but personally, the effort just wasn't worth the reward.