Which Assault Hybrid?


BunnyAnomaly

 

Posted

I know there are a couple of general thread going on about this, most specifically the one in the AT and Powers --> General Discussion, here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=290488

But, since Brutes have the Fury mechanic, which affects our dmg cap, and I am admittedly a noob when it comes to understanding the numbers behind it, I wanted to ask here what some of you are choosing as your Hybrid Tree if you are going Assault.

My thinking is that if you are ever close to the dmg cap and/or you have slow attacks that will make it difficult to maintain stacks, that the Doublehit tree would be more effective. If you are a fast-attacking set that doesn't approach the dmg cap, the +DMG boost tree would be better.

I am Staff/Ela, so I am guessing the +DMG tree will be more effective (although I am currently using the Doublehit one, because I find it more interesting). Before I go T4, though, I want to figure out if I am leaving a lot of dmg on the table because of my choice.

Does Fury put most Brutes close to our DMG cap, or no?


- Xyzor, Lightning.Rod, Kagyx - Rubber Mulch / Wholesale Candy - Freedom Server

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzor View Post
I know there are a couple of general thread going on about this, most specifically the one in the AT and Powers --> General Discussion, here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=290488

But, since Brutes have the Fury mechanic, which affects our dmg cap, and I am admittedly a noob when it comes to understanding the numbers behind it, I wanted to ask here what some of you are choosing as your Hybrid Tree if you are going Assault.

My thinking is that if you are ever close to the dmg cap and/or you have slow attacks that will make it difficult to maintain stacks, that the Doublehit tree would be more effective. If you are a fast-attacking set that doesn't approach the dmg cap, the +DMG boost tree would be better.

I am Staff/Ela, so I am guessing the +DMG tree will be more effective (although I am currently using the Doublehit one, because I find it more interesting). Before I go T4, though, I want to figure out if I am leaving a lot of dmg on the table because of my choice.

Does Fury put most Brutes close to our DMG cap, or no?
Fury is nice but doesn't get you anywhere near your damage cap on its own. Brute damage cap is 775% - 100% for staring base so 675%, now if you account for max fury 200% then you get 475%. Now, assuming an average of 95% for slotting you get 380%. So you still have 380% but if you assume the more average of 150% fury then you really have 430% still let to fill up.

As for better, thats something I can't think of to decide but I would say +dmg because the affects are more stable and doublehit is meant more so for when your at damage cap. Thats just my opinion though.


Dreaded Wail hits things freakin' hard.. i like to hit things freakin' hard... so.. id go Wail... SAVE THE WAILS!!!! - Solar_Lunata

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicRemedy View Post
Fury is nice but doesn't get you anywhere near your damage cap on its own. Brute damage cap is 775% - 100% for staring base so 675%, now if you account for max fury 200% then you get 475%. Now, assuming an average of 95% for slotting you get 380%. So you still have 380% but if you assume the more average of 150% fury then you really have 430% still let to fill up.

As for better, thats something I can't think of to decide but I would say +dmg because the affects are more stable and doublehit is meant more so for when your at damage cap. Thats just my opinion though.
You're missing the ~100% from slotting with damage enhancers (you do slot for damage, right?).

The initial 100% is for the base, unslotted damage, as it can be debuffed. I think of the starting base as being 575


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid76a View Post
You're missing the ~100% from slotting with damage enhancers (you do slot for damage, right?).

The initial 100% is for the base, unslotted damage, as it can be debuffed. I think of the starting base as being 575
No he got it here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicRemedy View Post
Now, assuming an average of 95% for slotting you get 380%.
Just don't forget about double stacked rage! All brutes do have that right? I mean is there something other than SS? (I kid, I kid)


Motivation is the art of getting people to do what you want them to do because they want to do it.

 

Posted

I haven't delved into the math yet but I tend to assume that if it is balanced for other ATs without the extreme self damage buffage brutes get, likely double hit would be the best choice for brutes (because if the +dam option was balanced for brutes, it'd be by far the best option on other ATs). The damage cap shouldn't be too relevant to this discussion, or so I would think.

Of course, even then one question remains - is it balanced at all for "normal" ATs? Rebirth +regen vs Rebirth +maxHP has already shown us the devs are apparently fine with massive performance gaps between two branches of the same incarnate tree...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid76a View Post
You're missing the ~100% from slotting with damage enhancers (you do slot for damage, right?).

The initial 100% is for the base, unslotted damage, as it can be debuffed. I think of the starting base as being 575
No, the cap is 775% if you're including the base 100%. It's 675% after you subtract that away. As in, your damage stat in combat attributes turns blue at 675 (although the slotting in your powers means you'll actually be ~95% past the damage cap by then). SonicRemedy had it right.

So yeah, you need Fulcrum Shift or a lot of red inspirations to hit the damage cap on a brute, so that part is not really an issue.
The stacking damage buff in Core will be equally beneficial to all of your powers, but you do have to build and maintain stacks. The math for doublehit is kind of weird, but basically it strongly favors long-recharge single-target attacks, and... disfavors(?) large AoEs and short-recharge attacks. You don't have to build stacks, though, it does all the bonus damage up front.


 

Posted

Does doublehit (and/or all procs, I guess) use base recharge or actual recharge for its calculations?


- Xyzor, Lightning.Rod, Kagyx - Rubber Mulch / Wholesale Candy - Freedom Server

 

Posted

Base recharge. Come i24, PPM mechanics are changing somewhat (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=288581), so that will affect the chance for doublehit to go off, but the damage when it does go off shouldn't be affected by that. I wouldn't be surprised if doublehit's damage formula is at some point also, though, because it really is weird how it double-dips on recharge and aoefactor.


 

Posted

But apparently double-hit doesn't work on powers with 20sec or greater recharge -- specifically KO Blow and Crushing Uppercut. Or was that a bug that got fixed? Someone (Butane?) noticed it right before Live and pointed out it seemed deliberately coded to prevent KO Blow and CU from benefiting from double-hit.

Anyone confirm?


 

Posted

Doublehit intentionally caps recharge at 20 seconds for its damage calculation, which means powers like KOB and CU don't gain the full benefit of their 25-second recharge times. That's not the same as doublehit not working at all, though. Unless there's a separate bug that isn't in the bug thread.

Doublehit for tankers is also being penalized by Gauntlet's AoE, much like PPM procs were, but hopefully that will be fixed in relatively short order, much like PPMs were.


 

Posted

So, there doesn't seem to a definitive answer to which Assault is better for a Brute? I've already got t4 Radial, but will also get t4 core if it's better.


 

Posted

From a related thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
I've made a spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Gw4X2t4VzNvQUE

I've entered the numbers for Titan Weapons and Broadsword already, but feel free to download a copy for your own use and add in whatever powers you want. Green cells are for entering power info; yellow cells are for adjusting Hybrid power parameters (which Hybrid powers you're comparing, how many stacks of Core's buff you have); red cells do the calculations and should be left alone.
I haven't used Excel in like two years, so it's not very nice to look at, but it should do all the math correctly.
Note that I put in Scrapper numbers; Brutes will gain less benefit from Core, and thus are more likely to prefer Radial.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
From a related thread:

Note that I put in Scrapper numbers; Brutes will gain less benefit from Core, and thus are more likely to prefer Radial.
Thanks for this!!


- Xyzor, Lightning.Rod, Kagyx - Rubber Mulch / Wholesale Candy - Freedom Server

 

Posted

Since I'm still learning this whole assault mechanic and havent quite come to clarity on it yet:

A SS brute that uses Footstomp, Burn, Blazing Aura, Fireball, with KO Blow for mopup - what is the best Assault path to follow ?

I'm mainly unsure about how assault effects AoE powers - especially the double hit mechanic. Is the double hit effect on aoe's a massive damage boost to many targets ?

Thanks for any explanations and help.


Over the hills and through the woods.

 

Posted

-post removed

see below


 

Posted

Currently, Mids is erroneously applying ED to the buff from Core stacks, which will significantly affect your calculations. Codewalker has posted a workaround until it's fixed in the next version.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
Currently, Mids is erroneously applying ED to the buff from Core stacks, which will significantly affect your calculations. Codewalker has posted a workaround until it's fixed in the next version.
Thanks! I will remove the above post in case people don't read the whole thread and fall victim to this.


 

Posted

Even if the Core did slightly more damage, I would nod toward Radial simply because it converts things into Energy damage. For most Brute sets, thats a new damage type to what they are currently doing. (Exceptions would be EM and Elec)