"You are under no obligation to save me" - A scrapperlock thread
By
4c3Player,
Posted on: 2009-08-26 11:10 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
On a team with my Fire/Fire blaster and I was tanking - yeah tanking.
So a tank joins the team and he says what the.........???? I say join in or get out of the way I am going in - Offense is the best form of defense!
Behold the power of CHEESE!
After 2 mission he quit - said I made him nervous.
Did an ITF last night with friends from a task force channel I was on. No tank, no brute... no problem! We had four scrappers, a crab, and I was on my night widow that I'm leveling up, plus two support.
While the team was still forming I sought out large groups of Cims to kill on the beach. I was testing my abilities -- I have softcapped defense when Mindlink is up, and I have a heal (pool power), and inspirations. I wanted to see how much they could debuff me defensively and if it was a problem. Eventually, it was, and I died... and hit the hospital. No comments at all from my teammmates, which is a good thing, they know everyone on the team is capable of determining what danger they're capable of on their own.
This was much more evident when we started the TF. In the 2nd mission, one scrapper ran off and killed nearly all the cysts in the side corridors while the main team went straight ahead. He died at one point, but not a problem, we cleared the mission very quickly.
In the third mission, we fought our way up the valley and part of the team went for the computer while apparently a different part went straight for the AVs. By the time I and those with me had the computer down, the AVs were also dead. I didn't even realize we'd engaged them.
In the final mission people charged Rommie while we were still mopping up guys on the platform. Someone killed one of the nictus while we were fighting Rom, so we only had to kill him 3 times. It was that kind of team. ^_^
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
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4 scrappers in the same place isn't a team, it's a psychotic blender. Hooked up to an entire power plant's worth of juice. With 4 sets of blades. Made of chainsaws.|
Originally Posted by Organica
Did an ITF last night with friends from a task force channel I was on. No tank, no brute... no problem! We had four scrappers, a crab, and I was on my night widow that I'm leveling up, plus two support.
...It was that kind of team. ^_^ |
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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Thats the way all blasters should be(:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
On a team with my Fire/Fire blaster and I was tanking - yeah tanking.
So a tank joins the team and he says what the.........???? I say join in or get out of the way I am going in - Offense is the best form of defense! Behold the power of CHEESE! After 2 mission he quit - said I made him nervous. |
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With people running ITF for shard drops, my last several ITFs have purposely gone up the path and forced the ambush, something I hadn't seen since my first couple of ITFs. (Although I've seen the ambush happen several times anyway -- it seems like someone triggers it by accident at least 1 out of every 4 or 5 TFs).|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I tried to stick with the team this time for the first mission, but things were progressing egregiously slow for having two brutes that presumably want to keep fury. We jump up to the top bypassing the "ambushes" that I've never seen because I've always jumped to the top. Anyway, half the team runs right past the center flaming altar, and before you know it, we're in a sea of nictus. I see lots of little skulls show up in my team window, but somehow someone managed to lead Solaris back to the altar.
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One of those recent ITFs, we ran up to the temple, started killing stuff, I turned around to face the ambush... there were a handful of dwarfs to fight... after that I headed back down the path where my friend MG was finishing up the rest of the ambush all alone.
MG says, "You mean I wasn't supposed to ambush the ambush?"
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
A few weeks ago my VG buddy and I join a PUG ITF. I normally don't pug it much, but it was around lunch time on a Saturday morning and it was just us online out of our normal crew. So why not?
The team leader sets the first mission and says somthing along the lines of, "This is neither a shard run or a speed run. Go at whatever pace you feel comfortable with." Cool stuff.
About halfway through the first mission its going kinda slow and my buddy says on vent, "Hey, lets try and turn this into a speed run, if they kick us we'll make our own." Sounds awesome to me!
I'm on my DB/DA brute and he's on an Elec/elec brute and we break off and start tearing though it. By the middle of the second mission the rest of the team is running right along with us and we finish the TF in 28mins with nearly half that in the first mission. GOOD TIMES!
After todays game playing experience...No. "I am under obligation to save you"!
This entire thread comes down to essentially people who solo, or who believe that they can be the exception. However, WE, the support toons are under the obligation to save you. If we don't we might not get flack from you, but like in all games, you will get the "Heals Suck" "Buffs not constant", "Where were you" "We wiped it's your fault"
Sorry, but this thread, and others can back me up if they have played any other game in the entire universe which is multiplayer, which features both buffs and heals, that you WILL be the first one the eyes look at.
Sorry, but after reading this over again...you are right, I am under no obligation to save you, however I would like to change the title to...
"If I do something rediculous then please don't blame support for not bailing my butt out of hell come high water, when I decided to split the team, rendering half of the team useless and the other half to dependant on the support said toon can offer"
Long title, but seriously, don't get on our supports back if you decide to play L33t hero, get yourself faceplanted and then need a scapegoat to cry about because you jumped into something that was to much to handle.
This post sort of turns me off.
Sorry for being blunt, but obligation aside, if obligations are obligations, then your obligation to me, and others is not not be jerks and to tell the rest of the team to not be a jerk when others, including myself, cannot meet expectations that are normally easy to meet.
I believe that this thread is the OP's decision, and thats fine, and it could be his playstyle which I wont knock, however it's also the OP's obligation to admit to the team when they sucked out and screwed things up for others.
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This is true, however ... "You are under no obligation to save me"
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Originally Posted by Nyx
I believe that this thread is the OP's decision, and thats fine, and it could be his playstyle which I wont knock, however it's also the OP's obligation to admit to the team when they sucked out and screwed things up for others.
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I don't believe you.|
Originally Posted by Chuckles07
This is true, however ... "You are under no obligation to save me"
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Others said the same.
Others lied.
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To be honest my experience is exactly the opposite (and I play support toons quite a bit). I can't recall ever seeing someone blame the support toon for them dieing and honestly if I did see someone doing it I'd make a note to avoid them in the future.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
This entire thread comes down to essentially people who solo, or who believe that they can be the exception. However, WE, the support toons are under the obligation to save you. If we don't we might not get flack from you, but like in all games, you will get the "Heals Suck" "Buffs not constant", "Where were you" "We wiped it's your fault"
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Most of the time if I die it's not because some support toon failed it's because I screwed up. For example a few weeks ago I was on the first mission of the LGTF with my Inv/Axe tanker. I charged the Clockwork King and immediately face-planted. Was it the support character's fault? Heck no, it was mine for not remembering to hit Watchman until after I'd charged (and I said as much at the time).
Now sure some people play support characters poorly but that's no different from any other AT except that it's more noticeable. If someone is doing a poor job at it I simply change my tactics so I'm not relying on them and move on.
The idea that support toons are responsible for the success or failure of the team is no different from any of the other fallacies regarding teams (like, must have a tank or must have a healer). Support toons allow a team to perform beyond the point it would without them but at the end of the day all players are responsible for the team's success.
Some people like to go off and solo in missions, as long as the team is doing fine I don't particularly mind (although my personal preference is simply to move first so that people follow me). Sometimes they bite off more than they can chew but that's all part of the fun, worst case I'll scrape them off the floor, pat them on the head and leave them to it.
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One time one of my imps died, and I blamed the emp ... true story
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Originally Posted by Nyx
I don't believe you.
Others said the same. Others lied. |
I guess it depends on the team and experience of the players etc. But...
I stick by my point. I think it was clear enough. I don't want to offend anyone by it, it's just how I have seen it happen. I don't always play support and it happens then too. So it's accross the board.
Unfortunately I have nothing more I can really add to this tread as I said what I think. So I move to PPD Bikini team just cuz it's funnier.
Generally speaking, if all eight people on the team buy into this style of play, then it's the most fun you can have in the game, period. But you need people who don't need their hands held, who don't blame others for their own failures. If I'm on a team of strangers that I don't know (as opposed to strangers that I do know, I guess? 
), I'll stick with the team because I know I can survive anything, but I don't know that they can survive if I'm not there.
But on a team of people I normally play with, the blasters and defenders are going to take the alpha if the scrappers and tanks/brutes don't get there first. If a blaster decides to run to the far side of the map and go nova to free a hostage, then dies... well, no problem. ^_^ Last night I was jumping into groups ahead of the tank and the brute (on my night widow) because frankly this particular stone tank is more of a scrapper anyway, and I have the defense to survive it, and probably 75% of the time I'd jump in, hit my AoE, and miss practically everything because the blasters were riding my heels and killing most of the mob before my power went off.
There's no "gather for buffs" on these teams. There's no "herding to this point". There's no crying because you died or got debt or the team didn't stick together.
If you've never played on a team like that, you're missing out. ^_^
We ran a Hess TF last night. Normally these take 25-30 minutes, because we fly as fast as we possibly can. But our leader forgot that they were set at +4... so we fought through the first mission at +4 (in our normal style, people swarming everywhere), then the leader Ouro'd out to Independence Port, changed settings, zoned back, I teleported her to Hess, set next mission and off we went. We still finished in 27 minutes. ^_^ Maybe we should've run the whole TF at +4, heh.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
laughs..my wife who is an uber empath cut her teeth supporting all scrapper but me teams back in dah days so whenever she joins teams I am on..I tell people shes an ichiban empath, so if you die its your fault
"...well I have wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor and I am happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P Dowd (from the movie Harvey)
I am on a Serenity kick..so here's an example of scrapperlock good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuKpvyO3-qE
and one gone bad...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwVqW6J4FRc
either way...the scrapper wins..
"...well I have wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor and I am happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P Dowd (from the movie Harvey)
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You forgot to add the bit about swinging them like nunchucks.|
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
4 scrappers in the same place isn't a team, it's a psychotic blender. Hooked up to an entire power plant's worth of juice. With 4 sets of blades. Made of chainsaws.
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CHAIN-CHUCKS YO!!
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Nyx, Healers like you are why empathy's are almost never invited to my teams. Only 4 attacks and snipe is one of your favorites? I LOL'd so hard! A dedicated healer is absolutely useless on any team of players that know how to play this game.
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Speaking as somebody who's run six different Defenders to 50 on PUGs, I think I can count the number of times I've had people blame deaths on me on one hand. And most of those were in the first year of the game when people still thought a Defender's role was generating green numbers. Besides, any team that takes this game so seriously that team wipes result in "it was your fault!" rather than "THAT WAS AWESEOME" isn't a team I'd want to stick on.
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Originally Posted by Nyx
After todays game playing experience...No. "I am under obligation to save you"!
This entire thread comes down to essentially people who solo, or who believe that they can be the exception. However, WE, the support toons are under the obligation to save you. If we don't we might not get flack from you, but like in all games, you will get the "Heals Suck" "Buffs not constant", "Where were you" "We wiped it's your fault" Sorry, but this thread, and others can back me up if they have played any other game in the entire universe which is multiplayer, which features both buffs and heals, that you WILL be the first one the eyes look at. Sorry, but after reading this over again...you are right, I am under no obligation to save you, however I would like to change the title to... "If I do something rediculous then please don't blame support for not bailing my butt out of hell come high water, when I decided to split the team, rendering half of the team useless and the other half to dependant on the support said toon can offer" |
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
A hesitant tank is why we have Phantom Army
"So you want to be a hero kid? Well whoop-dee-do"
-Philoctetes
Repeat Offenders
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Fix'd. |
Originally Posted by Zxerion
A hesitant tank is why we have Team Teleport
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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This is going on a very large T-Shirt!
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Originally Posted by Sitriel
This reminds me of LÜBKE, something I posted some two years ago on the German boards. I would roughly translate it as iBITE (increased Brutishness In Ten Exercises).
1st exercise: Create a brute, any brute. 2nd exercise: Log in your brute and notice the funny bar below your health and endurance. This is the iBITE bar implemented into this game for our therapy by the cooperative devs. (Thanks again!) Watch what it does. Notice the difference between activity and inactivity. Notice how your xp bar behaves differently when you have high iBITE. 3rd exercise: Repeat to yourself "More iBITE means more awesome. Only a full iBITE bar is a good iBITE bar. I will never let down my iBITE bar." until you have fully understood the message and know it by heart. 4th exercise: Play your brute and try and keep your iBITE bar filled as much as possible. When it is about to reach zero do something, anything, to fill it again. 5th exercise: Repeat exercise 4 only without looking at the iBITE bar. Only look at the iBITE bar when checking your progress in guessing your current amount of iBITE. 6th exercise: Cover the upper right corner of your monitor with a sticker, a post-it or anything similar so that you can see neither your health bar nor your iBITE bar. Then repeat exercise 5. 7th exercise: Create a toon from any non-squishy AT other than a brute. Seeing the iBITE bar with these ATs is the tricky part. In most cases the iBITE bar is invisible, but if you try hard enough you will see it in your mind. This is a special kind of interface for this therapy only. 8th exercise: Repeat exercises 5 and 6 with your non-brute non-squishy AT. If at any point you receive comments from other players that acknowledge your awesomeness or insanity proceed to the next exercise. 9th exercise: Create a toon from any squishy AT. As with the previous ATs you have to access the special mind-interface to be able to see the iBITE bar. If you are still unsure you might want to create a dominator as that AT has a special version of the iBITE bar called iBITE U. (U stands for "uber" of course.) 10th exercise: Repeat exercises 5 and 6 with this toon. Notice other players' reaction to your playstyle. Mind that most people find it unusual for a defender to rip his shirt apart, scream "HELL YEAH!" and jump headfirst into the next spawn while the tanker is still tieing his shoelaces. Remember that words like "nutjob" and "insane" have essentially the same meaning as "awesome". I can proudly say I have mastered all ten exercises. Repeatedly. Sometimes I survive. |
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I'd but that for a dollar! But I think it would have to be a nice sleep shirt for me.
| This is going on a very large T-Shirt! |
theres teams where if 5 of them stick together, they're unkillable and steamrolling everything, and the 3 others are off taking that one room at the back, or whatever. and then theres teams where all 8 of you need to be together or bad things happen. i ran 2 itfs yesterday. 1 of the latter, and 1 of the former. the tough one was with a tank who refused to taunt, and the heals, buffs, etc all died constantly. the only ones who remained upright most of the time, was me, a brute, with extremely liberal insp usage, and a dom who was really io'd out. the tank moved fast. so fast he didnt maintain aggro. i thought, since i wasnt really setted out yet, maybe i had something to do with it. my biggest issue was missing too much. so i went and slotted a kismet unique.
second run, we had a great group. ice tank that almost everyone shot at unless she was at aggro cap. great buffs. good debuffs. a traps mm, so squishies had mez protection. and sometimes 2 or 3 of them would go one way the the other 5 would go the other way. but we only had a total of 2 deaths the entire tf, including the computer and dwarf ambush. the first tf, we had 2 teamwipes (almost, only the tank remained alive) in the first mission. and it got funnier progressively after.
anyway, i dont know exactly what im trying to say, but i guess it comes down to, scrapperlock DOES sometimes screw over the rest of the team. and sometimes it doesnt.
"Remember that words like "nutjob" and "insane" have essentially the same meaning as "awesome"."
^This is the part that is T-shirt worthy.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
You know what? I have another story. I took my level shifted Bots/Traps on my very first Tin Mage last night. We were prepared to nuke/shivan/snowbeast/warwolf/Amy Director 11 in 30 seconds for the Midnight Dodger badge. That went surprisingly well, but we soon thereafter realized that the only person on the team with any form of taunt was my mastermind.
We decided to try for the other two badges. The scrappers put out enough damage to hold his attention most of the time, but he was debuffed enough that we didn't really worry about it anyway. My job was to hold the attention of the War Walker Goliaths as best I could. That was going amazingly well until something totally bizarre happened.
One of the Goliaths turned away, walked to my Assbot and footstomped. I watched, horror struck, as all six bots were reduced to cogs and bolts. The next thing I saw were the bold red numbers -1214 on my screen and a tiny glimmer of hope that was my last health point, pulsing alone and afraid. Thank the one shot code, I was alive, but not safe yet.
I already had a triage beacon down, so I mashed the [Hoarfrost] button (which, on a mastermind, is totally broken if you ask me), my Demonic Aura, and started resummoning bots. I didn't use any inspirations because all I had in my tray were huge purple, orange and green ones, and I only use those if the situation really warrants it. Somehow, I survived the ordeal and only lost the aggro of one of the Goliaths, who was promptly picked up by an awesome trapfender. We got our badge, Neuron died, the Goliaths died, Bobcat activated her vengeance, and we went after her.
I managed to even keep her aggro for about half that fight, but it went too quickly to really even notice.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.