City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

"You are under no obligation to save me" - A scrapperlock thread

4c3Player

By 4c3Player,
Posted on: 2009-08-26 11:10 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shisui View Post
anyway, i dont know exactly what im trying to say, but i guess it comes down to, scrapperlock DOES sometimes screw over the rest of the team. and sometimes it doesnt.
Only if the team isn't taking care of itself. Seriously, if a group of 7 lvl 35+'s can't take care of themselves in an ITF, its not the one person not there's fault. You guys would have faceplanted anyway.

 

Posted

"Louis, I found your challenge to be overly verbose. When one challenges a Kzin, one need only scream and leap."

"You scream and you leap," replied Louis Wu. "Great."

(quote is approximate)

Says it all, really.

"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi

Still CoHzy after all these years...

 

Posted

On my ITF on Wednesday, we were taking bets on who would die first:

1. Me, the elec/energy blaster slotted for obscene damage who uses Rise of the Phoenix as part of her attack chain,
2. The SS/WP brute who often says things in character like, "Welp, didn't really need that kidney anyway..."
3. The Warshade who plays as recklessly as me, "Yuuusss, mires..."

We're all ridiculously reckless. We all have a habit of soloing groups meant for 8. The winner? The brute. Faceplanted while I was still outside the mission, due to hitting his damage cap. Thanks to the kin. That team was AWESOME.

I make my low HP into a weapon of mass destruction, folks, don't mind the blasterlock. If someone pulls me out and rezzes me before I explode, I usually go into a few minutes of spluttering anger.

Then I go kill myself again and unleash the fiery death on my foes and feel better.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
However, WE, the support toons are under the obligation to save you. If we don't we might not get flack from you, but like in all games, you will get the "Heals Suck" "Buffs not constant", "Where were you" "We wiped it's your fault"
Well, maybe you're too nice a person heh. When I'm on my support toons (mainly Corrs), if someone is not within my healing/buff range, it is usually their fault, not mine. Don't get me wrong, I do make an attempt to assist them if they're in trouble and also nearby (but just out of range). However if they're half way across the map then it's not my responsibility. If they die, there's always the hospital.

I only say this because I am also quite guilty of going off on my own sometimes. This is especially the case when I'm playing my Brutes, Doms, MMs and certain Stalkers. Of course I don't expect anyone to come help me when I'm in that mode. After all, if I do get into trouble, I can always pop inspirations and return to the group. Not too proud to retreat

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by baron_inferno View Post
Well, maybe you're too nice a person heh. When I'm on my support toons (mainly Corrs), if someone is not within my healing/buff range, it is usually their fault, not mine. Don't get me wrong, I do make an attempt to assist them if they're in trouble and also nearby (but just out of range). However if they're half way across the map then it's not my responsibility. If they die, there's always the hospital.

I only say this because I am also quite guilty of going off on my own sometimes. This is especially the case when I'm playing my Brutes, Doms, MMs and certain Stalkers. Of course I don't expect anyone to come help me when I'm in that mode. After all, if I do get into trouble, I can always pop inspirations and return to the group. Not too proud to retreat
Ill close, considdering abonded this vain glorious post because Ill let other do what they should or will. I wont kick your playstyle in the butt...but I will question it if you think yo can do things you can't.

We all have a job to do, If you prevent me from doing mine, then you are a risk to my team. My role is simple...It takes little brain power, but it's my job and Ill do it. Screw the team cuz you thing you are a special unique butterfly then have you wings clipped.

Vain glorious yes. Smart no...this post is a post of a non team player who comes across as being elite. (But I assure you...this is out of charachter for this pesron.)

The only thing I find bothersome is that he OP is a wise player who's advice I have grown to trust in some builds. The confusing part is that he would make this post in the first place.

If he/she chooses to put me on ignore then it's my loss because other concepts they put out are solid. This thread is and will always be stange to me, because if someone can offer such great advice, then they also know when they are not offering anything that should be taken with a grain of salt.

I love your ideas, I love the fact that you know your game...but I don't like the fact that you trivialized yourself trying to prove something that we already know. You know your stuff! Just dont blame others (Not that you were implying you were, but you could by your words put fuel onto the fire) if something turns horribly wrong and you wish to dodge the bullet.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
The only thing I find bothersome is that he OP is a wise player who's advice I have grown to trust in some builds. The confusing part is that he would make this post in the first place.
I made this thread precisely because of the reasons stated in the first post. Adaptability is the signature of a good player. If the team is doing well, no matter what they're doing, you need to turn off whatever insane voice in your head is telling you that the team will fail if they don't follow your orders.

Your job is support, and part of your job (if you're going to do it well) is to figure out how to maximize that support. When your team doesn't need your buffs to survive, then you need to prioritize your efforts on the only thing that will help the team: doing more damage. Adrenaline Boost and Fortitude can be offensive or defensive tools. If your tank is able to survive every spawn, he doesn't bloody need fortitude and adrenaline boost and it would do much better on the damage dealers in the group.

Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I made this thread precisely because of the reasons stated in the first post. Adaptability is the signature of a good player. If the team is doing well, no matter what they're doing, you need to turn off whatever insane voice in your head is telling you that the team will fail if they don't follow your orders.

Your job is support, and part of your job (if you're going to do it well) is to figure out how to maximize that support. When your team doesn't need your buffs to survive, then you need to prioritize your efforts on the only thing that will help the team: doing more damage. Adrenaline Boost and Fortitude can be offensive or defensive tools. If your tank is able to survive every spawn, he doesn't bloody need fortitude and adrenaline boost and it would do much better on the damage dealers in the group.
You know I wont argue that. I can't argue that because it's correct. I have one tank who needs Adren Boost, but most others are fine. In fact we got him better slotted and he wont be needing much of anything now.

Right now my fave is a bubbler. Everyone gets a bubble...life in bubbles is pretty special, because I don't have to make Sophie's Choice each time I cast a power. Life...Is good.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I made this thread precisely because of the reasons stated in the first post. Adaptability is the signature of a good player. If the team is doing well, no matter what they're doing, you need to turn off whatever insane voice in your head is telling you that the team will fail if they don't follow your orders.

Your job is support, and part of your job (if you're going to do it well) is to figure out how to maximize that support. When your team doesn't need your buffs to survive, then you need to prioritize your efforts on the only thing that will help the team: doing more damage. Adrenaline Boost and Fortitude can be offensive or defensive tools. If your tank is able to survive every spawn, he doesn't bloody need fortitude and adrenaline boost and it would do much better on the damage dealers in the group.
Absolutely.

And I'd argue a few things. You will find this kind of reckless go-for-broke style of play in:

A) Veteran players who have played long enough to know many of the maps by heart, and where to find all the spawns

B) Veteran players who have tweaked their builds to be very soloable, or who know how to use inspirations and all the tools at their disposal and like to push their abilities to the limit

C) Groups of players who play together often and know each other's strengths, weaknesses, and tendencies

D) Veteran players who laugh at debt because they know how meaningless it is in this game

I'm a great deal more reckless when I'm playing with friends -- and it's a lot more fun. In fact I don't join PuGs as often as I used to for precisely that reason. You can always find good PuGs of course, but you just never know, and I don't feel like I can really let loose on a PuG like I can with friends.


my lil RWZ Challenge vid

 

Posted

So as an Empath is letting people (very occasionally) die so you can cast Vengeance on their sorry corpses and opening combat with Creepers because the bloody herd-happy (but tauntless) Tank is moving too slowly frowned upon or considered Empathlock?

Not that I'd do such things of course *whistles*

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Organica View Post
Absolutely.

And I'd argue a few things. You will find this kind of reckless go-for-broke style of play in:

A) Veteran players who have played long enough to know many of the maps by heart, and where to find all the spawns

B) Veteran players who have tweaked their builds to be very soloable, or who know how to use inspirations and all the tools at their disposal and like to push their abilities to the limit

C) Groups of players who play together often and know each other's strengths, weaknesses, and tendencies

D) Veteran players who laugh at debt because they know how meaningless it is in this game

I'm a great deal more reckless when I'm playing with friends -- and it's a lot more fun. In fact I don't join PuGs as often as I used to for precisely that reason. You can always find good PuGs of course, but you just never know, and I don't feel like I can really let loose on a PuG like I can with friends.
I like this post!

I agree with this post!

You're never so alive as when your dying.

But I don't spare PUGs my insanity. I make sure I don't get anyone else killed. Usually.

 

Posted

And sometimes the entire team is full of crazy people who just want to get things done and kill anything in the way of a goal. I ran on a PUG for a speed run on an ITF and it was scrapperlock to the extreme. Last mish? Charge Rommy from the beginning and just go to town while the platform and ambushes came in and piled on. If I had my Warshade it would have been truly epic for her. It was still a ton of fun for my scrapper and I enjoyed just mowing down everything in sight.

Do not ask for specifics. I was in the scrapperlock zone and nothing else mattered except getting to the next goal in order to dish out more justice.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA View Post
So as an Empath is letting people (very occasionally) die so you can cast Vengeance on their sorry corpses and opening combat with Creepers because the bloody herd-happy (but tauntless) Tank is moving too slowly frowned upon or considered Empathlock?

Not that I'd do such things of course *whistles*
If I have to focus too long on one person, wait it don't happen, I let idiots die, first rule of empathy.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenValkyrja View Post
And sometimes the entire team is full of crazy people who just want to get things done and kill anything in the way of a goal. I ran on a PUG for a speed run on an ITF and it was scrapperlock to the extreme. Last mish? Charge Rommy from the beginning and just go to town while the platform and ambushes came in and piled on. If I had my Warshade it would have been truly epic for her. It was still a ton of fun for my scrapper and I enjoyed just mowing down everything in sight.

Do not ask for specifics. I was in the scrapperlock zone and nothing else mattered except getting to the next goal in order to dish out more justice.
What server was this? It sounds like what my VG does on a daily basis. Especially if there was no communication in chat about what the heck was going on. Ventrillo has ruined our chat while fighting abilities.

 

Posted

First up, comes my solo-built Kin/Dark Defender... I got invited to a team running some arc or another in PI (I want to say Tina Mac, but I'm not sure...) after informing the leader that I lacked SB, ID, and IR, I accepted the invite. The team was just starting a new mission, a defeat all with some number of clickies in Axis Earth. After realizing that the team was sufficiently survivable, and was moving to the right, I moved to the far left end of the map, and proceeded to solo mobs, two spawns at a time. The team leader asked what I was doing. I said "making things go faster?". To which he responded "we need your buffs over here...". I told him they were doing just fine without me (in hindsight... Bad idea...). We finished the mission, after I soloed one half of the map with liberal usage of Soul Transfer and Blackstar, of course (with a blaster watching and asking questions about my build for most of that time), and the other 7 cleared the other half. I was promptly booted from the team. Lo and behold, within two minutes, I had recieved 5 tells from the former team members, and the leader had 6 spots open... Go figure. >.>

Next up comes my Shield/Dark/Earth Tank. Last mission of LGTF, the team is debating how we should handle pulling Haagen Daazs, The Honoree, and kill the generators. To which I respond "Let me know when you guys figure it out...", leap into the middle of the spawn, sleep half the Rikti with Salt Crystals, and start beating up Haagen Daazs. I lasted about two minutes before I stopped generating awesome, and thus my corpse was teleported out of the mess I created.


You thought that was the end, didn't you? Nope...

And then Haagen Daazs took half the room with him and followed the entire team (my limping corpse included) halfway back through the map with us screaming and crying, trying to escape... Leaving a trail of our corpses through the hallways before we ran out of awesome and completely teamwiped... So we all got back up... Only to find that the Scrapper we left back in the main room was coming back to meet up with us... Causing a second teamwipe via the Rikti following him back...


Most fun I've ever had on an LGTF.

 

Posted

Quote:
What server was this? It sounds like what my VG does on a daily basis. Especially if there was no communication in chat about what the heck was going on. Ventrillo has ruined our chat while fighting abilities.
Virtue. Hardly any communication was put into chat but none was really needed. At some point someone said something to the effect that it was nice teaming with a bunch of people who did not need constant direction.

We were told it was going to be a speed run, to only worry about the objectives, and exit when the mish was done. What more was there to talk about?

 

Posted

Too bad. We are on Freedom, but whoever you were teaming with was definately channelling our mojo.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
However, WE, the support toons are under the obligation to save you. If we don't we might not get flack from you, but like in all games, you will get the "Heals Suck" "Buffs not constant", "Where were you" "We wiped it's your fault"
Depends who you team with, or how you look at it.

If you fall in action, then we just powerboost veng off you, and continue...

Blaming takes time. Keep it moving...

Me: "What's this scrapperlock thing? (joking)"
SG partner: "Something you had, way before you ever made a scrapper..."

 

Posted

We did a Faathim the Kind last night. After we started the first mission the leader said, "Maybe I should've paid attention to the team makeup." We had 3 scrappers, 3 blasters, a warshade, and I was on my night widow. "You always tank anyway," someone replied. "You mean I'm our entire support?" I asked.

Heh. When we ran into Mother Mayhem we had a full team wipe, and even after that there was no "let's buff up first and attack together"... people rushed right back in as soon as they were ready, and she went down fast. ^_^

One blaster kept complaining about how much they were being held. I wanted to point out that they were one of the first to jump into the center of each group... but I knew I wasn't going to change anyone's playstyle. I was jumping into groups first if i could, even though as a defense-only toon I got shredded a lot by Rularuu and Nemesis.

We finished in 2 hours 27 minutes.


my lil RWZ Challenge vid

 

Posted

I think the only time I don't like it when someone gets scrapper lock (or Brute Focus redside) is when trying to do a speed run on the LGTF. Good luck getting then to stop killing stuff so you can let chatterbox and glacia get killed.

 

Posted

A brief conversation pertaining to my main, Blood Speaker, necro/dark engine of inevitable doom, in the last room of an LGTF.

Random team mate: Blood got separated!
Tank: So?

I'd built him up as a "tankermind" before I even realized there was such a term.

Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
After todays game playing experience...No. "I am under obligation to save you"!

This entire thread comes down to essentially people who solo, or who believe that they can be the exception. However, WE, the support toons are under the obligation to save you. If we don't we might not get flack from you, but like in all games, you will get the "Heals Suck" "Buffs not constant", "Where were you" "We wiped it's your fault"

Sorry, but this thread, and others can back me up if they have played any other game in the entire universe which is multiplayer, which features both buffs and heals, that you WILL be the first one the eyes look at.

Sorry, but after reading this over again...you are right, I am under no obligation to save you, however I would like to change the title to...

"If I do something rediculous then please don't blame support for not bailing my butt out of hell come high water, when I decided to split the team, rendering half of the team useless and the other half to dependant on the support said toon can offer"

Long title, but seriously, don't get on our supports back if you decide to play L33t hero, get yourself faceplanted and then need a scapegoat to cry about because you jumped into something that was to much to handle.

This post sort of turns me off.

Sorry for being blunt, but obligation aside, if obligations are obligations, then your obligation to me, and others is not not be jerks and to tell the rest of the team to not be a jerk when others, including myself, cannot meet expectations that are normally easy to meet.

I believe that this thread is the OP's decision, and thats fine, and it could be his playstyle which I wont knock, however it's also the OP's obligation to admit to the team when they sucked out and screwed things up for others.
Well if you go running off to save a scrapper, and don't bother to heal the rest of the team and they die because of it, you would be the one that should be to blame. Who is more the fool? The fool or the fool who follows him?

As support you are there to support the team, not one member of the team. So what if one member runs off on their own. /Ivandragoimpression If he dies, he dies. Not your fault. I have never been blamed (unless it is behind my back) for the death of someone who ran away from the rest of the team.

People are normally not that critical of support when the poo hits the fan and they cannot keep everyone alive. Was actually on a tin mage yesterday where squishies kept getting too close to the aoe range for those giant robots and kept dying. Me and the emp cycled through rezes and kept getting people back up. After, the leader thanked us for the great heals even though there were several deaths.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker View Post
A brief conversation pertaining to my main, Blood Speaker, necro/dark engine of inevitable doom, in the last room of an LGTF.

Random team mate: Blood got separated!
Tank: So?

I'd built him up as a "tankermind" before I even realized there was such a term.
now that is a good tank. Out of my taunt radius? That's your own damn problem.

 

Posted

I have a similar view on my dark defenders/corrs/MMs -- if you're near me, you get healed. If you're not near me, you're on your own.


my lil RWZ Challenge vid