So with WoW raising their level cap again
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-08-23 16:32 in Player Questions
No.
...I forgot what experience means.
As I recall, it was Castle who said the powers system is designed and balanced around level 50, plus you don't want people having their purple IOs becoming obsolete. So, no, not gonna happen.
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IIRC they will have a system in place in Going Rogue to further develop LV50 characters without raising the level cap.
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WoW can increase every year or two because their system is designed to. I was under the impression though that even then they have an upper limit by design (90 or 100 I think).|
Originally Posted by armylife1124
I know we have this question once every few months, but with reading today about WoW raising its cap to 85, does anyone think we will see a raise in our level cap?
personally I hope not, although I wouldn't be shocked if I saw it |
Our game's characters, creatures, enhancers were designed to go to 50 (+5 in the case of foes to maintain the difficulty curve). We're at our cap. There are things that can be done that give players ways to enjoy their characters even at the cap, and that's what they're doing. However simply adding more levels isn't where this game will go, based on everything we've been told.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Which I hate to see. One of the very best things about COH is that you can finish a character. I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally don't want any more "stuff" to have to get on my 50s.
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Originally Posted by Novapulse
IIRC they will have a system in place in Going Rogue to further develop LV50 characters without raising the level cap.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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We're not going to get an increase in maximum level because some other game did. Co* innovates, WoW imitates.
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Originally Posted by armylife1124
I know we have this question once every few months, but with reading today about WoW raising its cap to 85, does anyone think we will see a raise in our level cap?
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If you really think about it if WOW system was designed to Top at level 100 or so then they Deliberately restricted players to lower levels. Just so they could raise the cap every so often.
Our Devs had a system that meant to stop at 50 and they created the IOs so we can become even stronger. Now there's players taking down AVs by themselves. I'm glad we weren't perspicuously restricted to 50 just so with each expansion they can tease us with more levels.
Just to clear the air before I get blasted too bad, I not a WoW fan, I played for the first time this last week on a ten day trial and I just didnt like it, it has some cool aspects but for the most part I really did not enjoy it and I think have played several other MMOs and I think that CoX is the top game out there, I just started this topic because I just like asking random questions.....
Triceth LVL 50 Ice/Storm Controller
Ghost Scrapper LVL 50 MA/reflexes Scrapper
Gespin LVL 44 Spine/Regen Scrapper
Treal LVL 41 Emp Defender
Radill LVL 41 Ill/Rad Troller
As every one has said it will NEVER happen, this game is not WoW thast why we like it. Here the concept is not so much get to max lvl but enjoy the trip (something the AE baby's need to learn) Once your their the game gose sideways not up you have lots to do at 50 i still roll my first now and then just to poke tf's and a few random monsters but mostly the iea was roll another toon there are so many combinations that no one i mean that no one can say they have done it all not even the guys from back in beta some of us just cant roll X toon not fun others love X toon thats the thing about CoX its built around alting WoW was not.
There is but one truth. Time is limited. ndnw its over
Why would WoW raising their level cap in any way affect CoX? Nobody looks at CoX and thinks "Oh my God, the level cap is thirty less than WoW, this game is a piece of ****." Other games and their level caps are meaningless to this game. Is your next question about how TF2 adding hats will affect CoX enhancements?
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Just FYI, there have always been players taking down AVs solo.
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Originally Posted by RottenLuck
Now there's players taking down AVs by themselves.
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^ no. Our system works differently than WoW, so they are not even comparable. A level cap is just a number. It doesn't mean anything. Technically, CoH could easily be converted to a Level 500 cap (using each "bub" as it's own level), but it doesn't mean anything in the game would actually change or be better because of an UBER-Cap. lol|
Originally Posted by armylife1124
I know we have this question once every few months, but with reading today about WoW raising its cap to 85, does anyone think we will see a raise in our level cap?
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Originally Posted by Leandro
As I recall, it was Castle who said the powers system is designed and balanced around level 50, plus you don't want people having their purple IOs becoming obsolete. So, no, not gonna happen.
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Originally Posted by Novapulse
IIRC they will have a system in place in Going Rogue to further develop LV50 characters without raising the level cap.
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Not sure if they are implementing it or not. Seeing how power customization was also part of the GR survey, but we are seeing it in i16 instead... you never know what's going to happen.
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no need to get that hyped up, I know how protective most of us our of our game, I am one of the people who explain to people why this game is actually better in most ways that WoW or most other MMOs, it is natural to ask a question such as this, I know that CoX is a superior game in almost every aspect, I just read the WoW article about their level cap and I was curious..... I just like to hear people's opinion on our cap, and for you to think that anything that another MMO does is not going to affect our game is a little Myopic, all of these games are competing against one another
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Why would WoW raising their level cap in any way affect CoX? Nobody looks at CoX and thinks "Oh my God, the level cap is thirty less than WoW, this game is a piece of ****." Other games and their level caps are meaningless to this game. Is your next question about how TF2 adding hats will affect CoX enhancements?
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Triceth LVL 50 Ice/Storm Controller
Ghost Scrapper LVL 50 MA/reflexes Scrapper
Gespin LVL 44 Spine/Regen Scrapper
Treal LVL 41 Emp Defender
Radill LVL 41 Ill/Rad Troller
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Which I hate to see. One of the very best things about COH is that you can finish a character. I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally don't want any more "stuff" to have to get on my 50s.
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My whole hobby gaming store stopped playing CoH because of lack of character development at 50.
=/ they didn't try to get purples and such, but they try to do the same WoW raids over and over again for gear? meh. This game would get more people if there were more things to develop your char.
Raising the level cap doesn't seem to be a good idea in other MMOs either, especially the ones where if the time in between level 1 and the cap is considered a timesink grind. Thousands of dev-hours of content is made completely obselete.
Won't happen, as CoX is balanced around the Lv50 cap. With WoW it's basically expected, as it revolves around grinding to higher levels and accumulating better equipment, so raising the level cap simply pushes back the limit of gear hoarding, while ignoring the actual content in between. It can easily be likened to chasing a carrot on a stick, because WoW's gameplay style has no repeatability so the best way to prevent the playerbase from growing tired of the "top level content" is simply to buy time via changing what top level is, thus forcing the old top-level players to grind their way to the new benchmark.
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I cannot believe that after seeing people complain about Neverwinter Nights only allowing characters to go up to level 20.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Why would WoW raising their level cap in any way affect CoX? Nobody looks at CoX and thinks "Oh my God, the level cap is thirty less than WoW, this game is a piece of ****."
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Here's one of Memphis Bill's copypastas, by the way... just to avoid rehashing the old points and counterpoints.
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Why raising the level cap is not a good idea for COH It's me, your friendly (?!?) neighborhood (close the blinds!) cut-and-paste answer. Why a cut and paste answer? Because this is one of those suggestions that comes up a good bit, and I'm a lazy bum who doesn't want to type this each and every time. I want more levels! This game has had two level cap increases. Both times for the exact same levels. Both City of Heroes and City of Villains started out with content for 1-40, putting in the last ten levels the following issue. So why not another? 50-60? Well, sit back and let's take a look at it. But World of Conanhammer has....! We should too! Many other games have periodic level cap increases. New areas are introduced, new gear and new foes are introduced. CO* has been at level 50 since issue 1. Why is there no cap increase? If you look at those other games, they have gear. Gear that gets replaced. If you want to get more powerful, you get new gear. They're heavily "loot" based. How many of them can you use your first Small Sword of Bat-killing and Armor of Somewhat Rumpled Paper in past the first few levels? OK, you CAN use them. How suicidal would it be to do so? Old equipment doesn't scale well. It gets replaced. Old skills ("Nasty carpet shock") get replaced ("Nasty carpet shock +1" to "Ow, that hurts" to "ZOMG! Lightning!") City of Heroes doesn't use gear. We don't have Swords of Swordly Slaying or Sniper Rifles of Moderately Good Accuracy to replace. They don't wear out. We have powers - powers you can use from 1-50. OK, yes, we have enhancements, and enhancements get replaced and change a power - but they make the powers themselves more powerful. You don't typically replace Tier 1 blast with Tier Eleventy - you use them both to create an attack chain. You don't replace your Healing Aura with Healing Aura Level 30, you add slots into it and make it more powerful. Are you a tank? Your armors overlap and complement each other - one giving Smashing protection, the next Elemental, the next Energy, and don't forget your Mez protection. Right now, that system is designed around 1-50. The first 40 levels deal with getting YOUR powers selected and strengthened, as well as a few anciliary powers (travel powers, end management and utilities.) Level 41-50 has a few, select powers as you work through the high level content, powers that are meant to look at your archetype and cover a few of their "holes." Tanks, for instance, get a ranged attack to pick off runners, or start grabbing aggro with a bang (or a whoosh.) Defenders, after spending 41 levels buffing everyone else, get to self buff. And in public, too. Controllers get some damage, and so forth. Even the Patron powers do this, yes, adding shields, ranged attacks, immobilizes and the like. All this, and the slots you're given, are designed around levels 1-50. The top end "Gear" (top set Enhancements, including Purples, and Hamidon enhancements) are designed around level 50. So are rewards - such as unlocking Epic Archetypes. If you want to look at what another few levels would do to this stuff, I suggest looking for a Titan Calcite Shard. What's that? That's similar to a Hamidon origin enhancement, but dropped by the Crystal Titan. People don't use them - and didn't, before IOs - because they *wear out* in the early 40s. Why? Because the cap was raised from 40-50, so what, for one issue, was top end... no longer is. You'll notice there's no similar item villainside. Other games have forced obsolecense of gear - and, the flipside of it, a minimum level of "acceptable" gear to do top end content (raids, PVP and the like.) This is part of what's meant by "The game begins at X level" in those games. COH... the game begins at level 1. Getting the "gear" is part of the whole grind built into those games, something that is decidedly missing in COH. Yes, you have to work at getting XP. But you'll get that regardless (unless you enable "no XP.") Even the "Purple recipes" don't need to be farmed for - they have a chance to drop from every mob. Not just a special raid, and even a sidekicked level 1 could have them drop. Sidekicking! Yeah, let's look at that. It reinforces the point I made about gear. What happens if you take a level, say, five in another game and bring them to the level 40 zone? They're useless, and quickly dead, generally. At least, if they can get IN those levels. In COH, you can take that level five to the level 50 area, sidekick them, and - while they generally won't be able to do *much,* their attacks, debuffs and the like will scale. A sidekicked Level 5 Controller's hold will still stack. It won't last as long and they won't have accuracy as good as a level 50, but it will still hold its target or stack with other holds on tougher ones to get something held. Heals scale - an aura that heals 50 damage natively is now doing 400 while sidekicked. (making up numbers, but the concept is the same.) There's no "useless gear." Powers scale as you get a full set. I want to progress! One of the (valid) complaints about CO* is that there's not much to do when you get to the end. Part of this is the design of the game, the "Journey vs Destination" mindset. And part of this is due to alts - you have a bunch of slots, and between debt reduction, patrol XP, double XP weekends and the like, you can miss a chunk of it by blinking. What you want, in that case, is not "More levels." It's "More content." The reason people think "More levels" when they bring this up is what's already been pointed at several times - *other games.* You want more to do, and - there, at least - better gear to do it with. Well... again, we don't have "gear." More content, though, is perfectly doable within the 1-50 framework, *without* an artificial level bump that breaks nearly (at time of writing) five years of foundation. We can have tougher foes - in fact, the same group (say, Circle of Thorns) will have different abilities as you go up in level, if they're a level 1-50 group. They get tougher. They're designed to be more of a challenge. But I want a bigger number! Here's the thing. COH is really built around being able to reach 50. It's an attainable goal, you end up with a varied suite of powers that really let you tackle almost anything. City of Heroes is far more favourable to growth *outward* (more content in the existing ranges, more zones, etc.) than *upward* (level 60, 70, 80, 9000.) Again, this is most strongly indicated by the lack of "planned obsolecense" of powers, and that you don't use "Gear." If you're a Broadsword scrapper, to use the most obvious example, you don't need to get the Uber Broadsword of Slicey-Slice at level 20, the SuperSlicer 9000 at 30, etc. to progress. You can change the look without changing effectiveness. And you can change your effectiveness by changing your slotting and/or IO sets - or build, given dual builds. Without "Gear" to force into upgrades, moving upward (bigger numbers) is really more of a detriment. Not only do you now have to figure out what will happen with powers and slots (especially with the large number of 50s out there - do you change the 41-45-47-49 to 45-48-51? What do you do with the 50s who have them already?) but you have to change epics (awarded at 50,) rebalance around a whole new set of powers, deal with PVP, and come up with a whole new set of rewards - like Hamidon origin enhancements, which would then be pointless, and purple recipes, which would no longer be "top gear" - to work towards at 60. The population gets spread out more, and the 50-60 content gets burned through rapidly... and then we hear the call for another level bump, to 70. Which starts the whole thing over again. 50 is an attainable goal, you know you'll get there and be at your pinnacle, even if you don't drink. You'll be able to "catch up." Your character won't be obsolete. In short... we can expand the game, add more to it, and give you far more to do without the artificial chase of "the next highest level after 50." |
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This.
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Originally Posted by SpaceNut
No.
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TBH while the devs have always said that raising the level cap is something they will never do... there seem to be a lot of things that they will never do that they have done. I think that raising the level cap is something that will happen but only once the game really starts to die back and the sub numbers are haemorrhaging.
"Never" is not something the devs throw around casually. Even Power Customization was a "we might do it, but not now, because it'll take a *lot* of work". I can think of very few things that have been a "never"...and not one of them has been implemented.
My memory could be off, though.
Got to love those condescending cut-n-pastes!
I hope they do something for 50's I have a few 50's that have more dust on them that grannies goodie-zone!
I really hope it isnt letting us get 50+ Enh because that would ruin stuff? You really have to ask what they are going to do to make a 50 better and in turn make people actually play their 50?
I mean there are so few things we can do!
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/
This game is not set up like WoW. They are totally different formats. This game will continue to add ways to tweak and expand on your lvl 50s, and add more content more level 50s....but the level cap will never be raised. I say this with confidence not just because the Devs have said "never", but because it would make no sense to do in this game.
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I'm sure CoX could develop more to extend the player base size to pay more salaries and coffee habits but in all seriousness I think WoW is a worse game because 8 trillion people play it.|
Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
My whole hobby gaming store stopped playing CoH because of lack of character development at 50.
=/ they didn't try to get purples and such, but they try to do the same WoW raids over and over again for gear? meh. This game would get more people if there were more things to develop your char. |
And as one of the games (I usually play a few mmorpgs off and on at any given time) I started playing since open beta I left WoW after they made it clear they were going to keep raising the level cap and basically undo any and all the work you could ever do to "finalize" your character and thus be able to move on to alts.
Now I do feel CoX would benefit from more end game content type things, I definately feel they have more in game to do than when I started here in issue 2, but would hate to see the actual level cap raised above 50.
The additional enhancement slots posited are in my opinion a step in the right direction, since they don't make pre-existing 50's weaker but do allow people who wish to make additional tweaking to a slew of alts (we all have alts I believe) and thus add more time & enjoyment to the game-level-scheme that already exists.
I know we have this question once every few months, but with reading today about WoW raising its cap to 85, does anyone think we will see a raise in our level cap?
personally I hope not, although I wouldn't be shocked if I saw it
Triceth LVL 50 Ice/Storm Controller
Ghost Scrapper LVL 50 MA/reflexes Scrapper
Gespin LVL 44 Spine/Regen Scrapper
Treal LVL 41 Emp Defender
Radill LVL 41 Ill/Rad Troller