Reduced Badge Requirements in I16


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern_Comfort View Post
If I understand this post and SnowGlobes then even though playerA paid 15.00 but chose to play 40 hours of a week and accomplish the "Ungodly reqs". PlayerB chose to use their 15.00 and play for 10 hours a week yet playerA should get the same reward as playerB after having invested 8 fold the time for the same badge? No offense... this is why we have pvp 2.0 and the merit scaling with tf/sf/trial's. Why ?
Because your "PlayerA" type is not a long term subscriber. They burn out quicker than the others. Many of the same players are leaving the game and had made the decision to do so before this was announced.

Those requirements should never have been put in place without determining if the requirements were achievable through normal play. The Developers guessed. They didn't know what it would actually take to get the badges. Players were never meant to get the badges through farming. That people got the badges through farming isn't the developer's or the casual player's fault. The blame for any time "wasted" lies only with those who chose to farm the badges. No one else. They were rewarded: they got the badges earlier than others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern_Comfort View Post
Editing to add: Alot of people earned the badges legitimately and through no "exploitive" behavior. Your use of an "exploit" as an example for all badges with high reqs is out of line, Snow Globe.
Not the epic Damage or Healing series. Call it meta-gaming or whatever, it is still outside the intended ways of getting the badges. The Healing series just has a clear-cut example. I know that, given extremely ideal conditions, Empath would have been earned only in 30 years. Even reduced to 100 million would require over 1,000 level 50 ITFs as the only healer on bad pick up groups. That alone would have made a lot of people quit before getting the badge.

I would say that the INF badges were not exploits, but encouraged exploitative behavior. We might not have the Rikti Comm Officer nerfs without inf farming in the RWZ.

The writing was on the wall with the AE badge removals.




Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern_Comfort View Post
If I understand this post and SnowGlobes then even though playerA paid 15.00 but chose to play 40 hours of a week and accomplish the "Ungodly reqs". PlayerB chose to use their 15.00 and play for 10 hours a week yet playerA should get the same reward as playerB after having invested 8 fold the time for the same badge?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Because your "PlayerA" type is not a long term subscriber. They burn out quicker than the others. Many of the same players are leaving the game and had made the decision to do so before this was announced.
Maybe. Even if true, it's irrelevant.

Quote:
Those requirements should never have been put in place without determining if the requirements were achievable through normal play. The Developers guessed. They didn't know what it would actually take to get the badges. Players were never meant to get the badges through farming.
THIS.

I'm sorry that hardcore badgers feel that the reduced requirements devalue their achievements. In fact, that's a big reason why Castle has allowed this problem to fester. Luckily Synapse has the attitude of "if the requirements were borked to begin with, they deserve to be fixed."


Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern_Comfort View Post
Old adage" Is the glass half full rather than half empty?" Getting an extra badge for " no extra work" is a false statement.Old badgers already went out of their way to complete much higher requirements.
Perhaps "no extra work" was a poor choice of words. Your second sentence in this quote is exactly my point however. Old badgers already went out of thier way to complete much higher requirements. Yes. Extra work was already done. I suppose what I meant to say was "no additional work". With the work already done, all I would need to do now is simply log in for new badges.

I was already rewarded once for defeating 10,000 rikti monkies. I don't feel the need to be rewarded for it again. Yes the requirement has dropped significantly since then, but so have the mechanics for obtaining the badge. They've since gained a ranged attack and the aggro cap prevents mass herding. Any new badger attempting this now, will have done much more work than you or I.

With the exception of Empath (which I got immediately after the first reduction was made), I've gotten all of the badges the "hard way", under thier original values. I even spent the time in RV for isolator.

Do I feel my extra work has been devaulued by the badge changes? Sure. Maybe a little.
Do I feel entitled to another reward because of it? Certainly not.

There are actually alot of good changes on that list. Overall I'd have to say, I'm happy with it.


 

Posted

I'm not a badger, and I've only been playing for about 9 months, which is enough to get a sense of badges and that they are useful in getting accolades with additional powers and whatnot, and sometimes just the badge title for whatever reason.

It seems to me like if we equate the old requirements to, say, taxes, then people are complaining about their taxes going down. Yeah, you paid your taxes last year, but then you got to use the stop signs and schools those paid for all this while. Now they have lowered taxes but you are feeling slighted because people turning 18 now have to pay less taxes than you did and they get all your stop signs. That doesn't change that taxes have gone down and you have everything you had yesterday.

You are all republicans and I claim my five pounds.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Mylia View Post
snip...


I would like to know who got Empath, Immortal, Jailed through non-exploitative ways. eg. playing the game "normally".
As I said in other post, I'm 49 months into the game, playing a Mind/Emp controller and never farmed for badges. Currently I'm on the 4th badge of the 1st two sets (that is, working on the 5th) and working on the 4th of the 3rd set. Through casual play you'd need a lot of time to get those...


Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit

 

Posted

Well, looks like it'll only be Popular and Leader for my badge toon now (and DJ and associated Accolades of course).

All badges look attainable now in my opinion, yet still need some grinding (keeping their epic feel, instead of the epic fail )

Thanks devs!


@Viper Kinji
Currently working on:
Turtle Snapper - SD/MA/Ice Tanker

 

Posted

Being someone with all these badges on my villain, I'm not complaining or feel they've been cheapened in any way. I refused to do all of them again on my hero and with the lower requirements, I might actually give them a shot.

To be honest, there are enough people that have them now, that I don't find them to be a huge achievement. The badge I'm most proud of getting was Heatseeker. I was the one who spotted it and got the teams forming on Freedom when it was bugged and were the first ones to get that badge.

I don't care about the day jobs being 21 or 14 days. I am about a week from getting my next one, and have only 4 more to go after that(until GR), and 2 accolades to go with those 4.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper_kinji View Post
All badges look attainable now in my opinion, yet still need some grinding (keeping their epic feel, instead of the epic fail )

Thanks devs!
This, bolded for emphasis. The guesswork numbers pre-dating badge introduction needed to be adjusted, and they finally have been. As Punchin' Judy was saying, even though I've gotten many of the badges the hard way (for example, Isolator in Recluse's, 1000 pillboxes after the simple swapping was removed) it's good to see that criterias are adjusted to fit with what's feasible in the in-game reality.


 

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I logged onto test server and got five badges. This rocks.


 

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Originally Posted by Evilmeister View Post
This, bolded for emphasis. The guesswork numbers pre-dating badge introduction needed to be adjusted, and they finally have been. As Punchin' Judy was saying, even though I've gotten many of the badges the hard way (for example, Isolator in Recluse's, 1000 pillboxes after the simple swapping was removed) it's good to see that criterias are adjusted to fit with what's feasible in the in-game reality.
I agree.
Ah them days of getting confused in Bloody bay and Sirens call and wack Longbow (as hero).
The standing around inside the Station of RV and wack the infected each 45 min (sometimes longer)... and yes me and a mate timed it and it was not each 2 hour but apperantly had a % chance after 40 min had passed. ;P
The 1000 pillboxes was a hassle to get past (glad it is reduced) thus making it more possible for me to try it on my main red sider badgecollector. Boy did i feel joyful when I could leave RV with that badge .
Fabricator before Brainstorm ideas (and then removal of them) with 10000. (That.. was ALOT of clicking!) Converting base salvage to components.

I'm with you on this, it is glad seeing it reduced. They are attainable by more with this change, but you still have to do them. And we who did it on hard... well we will still remember what we did to get them (even if we do not need to be vocal about it).


Lady Arete on Unionhandbook
My Excel Badge tool

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Arete View Post
The 1000 pillboxes was a hassle to get past (glad it is reduced) thus making it more possible for me to try it on my main red sider badgecollector. Boy did i feel joyful when I could leave RV with that badge
I just finally started working on this badge a couple weeks ago. With a couple or few people working together, I find that 1000 isn't that bad at all. I got past the halfway point in just a few days, and over the weekend I didn't play, my partner passed me and made it to around 700 as well, and he had exactly 0 when we started. It wouldn't have taken long before we had 1000, and we had a good time doing it (fighting people as they came along). He was also able to get close to his 400 rep badge during the same time period.

Then we found out the requirement was being reduced to only 100, and we stopped.

I thought 1000 was reasonable. The new requirement of 100 can be done easily in just a few hours.

But then again, this just means it'll be that much easier to have more than one badge hunter. Because it was so much fun, I'd be willing to do it again. (and I'm not a PvP person) lol


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern_Comfort View Post
Why should the casual player have as much of an advantage as the player that's ingame 10 more hours a week than they? In my opinion... the player who logs in 5 hours a week should not feel slighted that another player who logs in 20 hours a week has something they do not.
Advantage?? From the epic badges? In what way?

As a matter of fact, someone who plays more DOES get a tangible advantage - they will have more influence and IO recipes.


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern_Comfort View Post
Editing to add: Alot of people earned the badges legitimately and through no "exploitive" behavior. Your use of an "exploit" as an example for all badges with high reqs is out of line,SnowGlobe.
Some of them, maybe. But since he specifically mentioned Empath as the prime example, your statement is irrelevant. No one got that one without EXPLOITING. Yes, I'm using the dirty word!


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Arete View Post
Ah them days of getting confused in Bloody bay and Sirens call and wack Longbow (as hero).
How unheroic. I got that badge by destroying cell doors.


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Ironblade View Post
Some of them, maybe. But since he specifically mentioned Empath as the prime example, your statement is irrelevant. No one got that one without EXPLOITING. Yes, I'm using the dirty word!
You dirty, dirteh boy!


Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Master-Blade View Post
Then we found out the requirement was being reduced to only 100, and we stopped.

I thought 1000 was reasonable. The new requirement of 100 can be done easily in just a few hours.

But then again, this just means it'll be that much easier to have more than one badge hunter. Because it was so much fun, I'd be willing to do it again. (and I'm not a PvP person) lol
Depends upon the server population and activity. For me I tried grabbing as many fellow badgers as possible. But a "good" night might net me between 30-40 pillboxes. Alot of them I simply had to solo for. But not matter how you get there... one have memories


@Ironblade. Yes, you are right... How Heroic. But it was fun though.


Lady Arete on Unionhandbook
My Excel Badge tool

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern_Comfort View Post
If they were to add new badges to meet the reqs of the old badges that wouldn't be fair. **** the people that got em the hard way. Those players should have been smart enough to realize they could wait a bit and get something for nothing,huh?Kinna like government cheese. Dayum that stuff tastes great!!!
Those who complain of the amount of their time "wasted" arena farming didn't need to be very smart. All the signs pointed to it being an eventual nerf bat target.

* The proponents did everything possible to hide the activity on these forums. Including warning others not to organize on these forums.

* A large amount of testing went into various means to get the best possible return for the least effort. This testing revealed an aberrant pattern, namely arena targets at full health counted for the badge. At this point the previous method was dropped as being too difficult (having mesons was popular at one point).

*The developer stance towards AE farming. At this point I think we're lucky to still have the badges.

* No one forced them to be impatient and get the badges through farming.




Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Those who complain of the amount of their time "wasted" arena farming didn't need to be very smart. All the signs pointed to it being an eventual nerf bat target.

* The proponents did everything possible to hide the activity on these forums. Including warning others not to organize on these forums.

* A large amount of testing went into various means to get the best possible return for the least effort. This testing revealed an aberrant pattern, namely arena targets at full health counted for the badge. At this point the previous method was dropped as being too difficult (having mesons was popular at one point).

*The developer stance towards AE farming. At this point I think we're lucky to still have the badges.

* No one forced them to be impatient and get the badges through farming.
I can only speak for myself and not for all of "they"

Time did go into testing and figuring out the best way to get the sought reward, that is no different than playing the game when really you break it down and look at it. People have figured out the best ways to achieve all sorts of things, from from fast task force runs, to quicker ways around the city ( really was Ouroborus primary design to be an express route to Atlas or PI?) even more efficient use of mission selections. That min/max spirit is seen in pretty much every aspect of the game, not just in the bading mini-game

The whole point of the game is to achieve goals and have fun doing it. For some that means running the ITF in 22 minutes; for others it is earning 100 million a day on the market; for a few it is having the highest badge count they can get. If I choose to get those badges by means that you don't approve of that doesn't invalidate either of our points of view. Really your opinion is no more valuable than mine.

you seem to take every argument around to the healing badges why is that? What about leader. The one badge you got through "normal game play" Or back from the future? I personally earned that when there was no team credit or deadman swapping. I feel you would be hard pressed to say I got that badge through any fringe or exploitative methods and they nerfed that one too, even though it was earnable if you wanted, and hell after they allowed team credit it was 8x easier to earn

And now I read that they lowered the SG badges too, as if to say entire groups can't earn these badges? sheesh! To me it looks like the devs seem to feel we are just that bad at playing their game.

I am not upset that they lowered the goal post for a great many badges. I am upset that this and in conjunction with the AE badge nerf seems to state that the devs no longer want a badge mini-game. I enjoyed that game and I will miss playing it.

At this point in the life cycle of the game when they should be making things more of a challenge to us as players they are doing the opposite. In some desperate attempt to create a challenge they are now letting us be our own virtual teams. How about some content that is hard, or badges that are challenge? and I mean more than these two new MotX Cause really go slow and and bring a bubbler and a cold/ isn't really a challenge.

I am not /ragequit-ing or anything, hard to do so when your account is paid in advance. Actually I hope that I'll find some new aspects of the game to enjoy.


Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.

 

Posted

I agree with you on the point of having more challanges 23x.

(And raising my eyebrow on the reducing sg badges requirments aswell)

If there is no challanges, then it is not fun anymore. And we play to have fun.
For me the badge collecting game is one thing that keeps me playing the game. Because we have a good community for it, there are challanges, there is the fun and thrill of getting a badge that not "everybody" has... Well rephrase, which is too easy so that every Tom, D.. umm Richard and harry also has (but has the possibility of getting).
Call it e-peen or whatever. Some collect on getting fastest to lvl 50, or most lvl 50's, some want to be the best pvp'er, some wants to do every arc, some wants to roleplay, some wants to try every powerset there is, some want to play the marked, some want to run the same repeatable mission over and over again.

I just hope the game will not be too easy or watered down.
Yes we play the Dev's game and pay to play it. But when you pay for something over time you do get a feel of ownership of the game. Because you enjoy it or certain aspects of it.
(But that is a different discussion I think)..

right.. where was I?
Oh yes..
Love challanges, please don't water the game too far, some of us enjoy the badge-minigame (even if some of the Devs and many players might not).


Lady Arete on Unionhandbook
My Excel Badge tool

 

Posted

I like the badge minigame too, I just don't think it should require or encourage unchallenging behavior (AFK badge farming) in order to be successful.

The Ouroboros badges are an example of a good set of badges. There's a lot of them, and they're tough to get (last night I slogged my way through a couple 1-14 arcs, it was torture), but the only way for you to get them is to work through them. That's a challenge I appreciate (even if I do start hurling obscenities at the screen...). Taking 10 million trillion damage? Defeating 10,000 Flying Dingus Minions? Not so much.


"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkGob View Post
I like the badge minigame too, I just don't think it should require or encourage unchallenging behavior (AFK badge farming) in order to be successful.
Very.. much... agree. (AFK farming is boring)
What I hope to say is don't make it too easy and don't make it too steep.
It can either be summed in the "yes, please both" or "The golden (middle) path". Not correct english, I think but... *shrug*
When you need to afk farm and not play through proper gaming then the requirments are steep. To be frank, when I heard that the badges where going going to be changed I had the AE badge nerf/removal in mind. Cause sometimes Devs like to use the big nuke to change things... I was glad that was not the case, some reducement was maybe not neccessary but its not important. The Devs want us to hunt 100 of a certain npc... well a 100 is a very good number.
I did like that some badges had a different amount (like 200 etc), but 100 is ok. (Feared it would be lower )


Lady Arete on Unionhandbook
My Excel Badge tool

 

Posted

Still need to address the likes of Unveiler and Cap Buster redside.
Y'know, those horrible horrible, defeat X ones, which happen to be for unlockables....which are, sort of, nigh on impossible to achive?

Oh, and the ones for Rularuu weapons? Which are two arcs in the entirety of CoV?
Seriously, Heroes got enemy proliferation in the Hollows, and they have access to all the enemies they need. Villains? Fake Nems and Paragon Protectors in better numbers outside of missions, redcaps, Family bosses and Overseers in ANY numbers.

Please, kay, thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Cap buster..
Talk to Dj zero (Provided you have him as a contact aka done the holliday event) and you get to do his missions as many times as you wish (and bust as many caps that you can. Or ask in a badgerchannel if someone can run that mission.

Family bosses?
Okay... for one of them underbosses/consigliares head to Nerva and street hunt.
For the other head head into Port Oakes. (Port oakes runs are nice soo many badges to be gained with an 8 man team).
But then yes any hunt X of any villain group is far easier the more players you have.

The rest of those you mentioned is harder to get yes, For PP's one needs to organize a team of like minded individuals and start scouring Grandville for them (Fab).

But the point of your post Techbot is very sound. There are far fewer chances or missions for villains to get several of them badges.
(Weatherman/Weathergirl... i'm looking at you)
Overseers, Outcasts, Paragon protectors (heroes have one mission with ONLY these) and hero side got more Fake Nemesis missions etc if my memory serves me right. Ofc its doing missions for nemesis, can't remember seeing many fakes spawn outdoors .


Lady Arete on Unionhandbook
My Excel Badge tool

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
* A large amount of testing went into various means to get the best possible return for the least effort. This testing revealed an aberrant pattern, namely arena targets at full health counted for the badge. At this point the previous method was dropped as being too difficult (having mesons was popular at one point).
Actually, having damage-dealers active made the farming that much more effective. Having enemies dealing damage came to a stop when there was an unannounced change to the gladiator AI. Previously, they could be set to just sit there and take the beating without counter-attacking (and killing off the opposing team). That was changed and having damage-dealers became impractical.


On a related note, as we all know, Empath was reduced from 1 billion healed to 100 million, and Issue 16 will further reduce it to 10 million. This is a hundredfold reduction in the requirement. Who (besides me) thinks that this means they finally fixed the gladiators/arena so that healing undamaged targets is no longer counted? (Or healing in the arena is not counted at all, or perhaps gladiator healing no longer counts.)


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project