Reduced Badge Requirements in I16
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-08-20 10:15 in Badges and Gladiators
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Originally Posted by Snow_Globe
Actually, it isn't a bad standard at all. Without people actively subverting the system, Positron would have looked at the badge requirements sooner. He also would not have had the excuse that he was only looking at "preserving the hard work of those who have gotten the badges." They would have data mined the requirements and reduced them to achievable levels. Thanks to those who actively subverted the intentions, that data mining did not happen.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Ah, and you got this from your crystal ball or telepathy? I don't recall him actually SAYING this. If we can assume whatever we want, then base our arguments on those assumptions, well, the sky's the limit, isn't it?
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Originally Posted by Wonderslug
On the empath badge:
"I put one too many zeroes on the thing, and by the time I realized that it was really absurdly hard to get, it was too late because people had already tried to get it and I didn't want to invalidate their play experience or the achievement they had earned. (Castle: That's the first time I've heard that story.) [...] Ten thousand Rikti monkeys changed when we changed the way--a core mechanic of the game changed, which was herding. Ten thousand Rikti monkeys was literally put in because you could herd a hundred Rikti monkeys at a time and kill them all." |
So you see I don't need to assume anything here. Positron has said that he has held back badge changes because people have "earned" said badges. You fail.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
I have them all.
I have leader. I can't badge anymore.
Please. Someone please. Fix this. 
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I just saw that my above post got negative rep, being labeled an assumption. When I wrote that, I didn't know that at least one badge goal was a flat-out data entry error (thank you Snow Globe, for proving that was the case). What drove my comment was a PM from Synapse: "Some of these badges were designed without a whole lot of data, just a lot of speculation on data we did have." This is a small quote out of context of a larger conversation but the point he was making is that some badge goals were set at a level that they thought were reasonable but later it became apparent that they weren't. That's the genesis for my "unintentionally difficult goals" statement. I wasn't assuming anything. It was the result of a private conversation with a dev.|
Originally Posted by Sardan
Many of the badges were set up with unintentionally difficult goals. It was a mistake. Mistakes should be corrected.
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I also got negative rep for being short-tempered with _23X_, for which I plead guilty.
EDIT: woot! 3000 posts!
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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Don't give up your dayjobs! |
Originally Posted by Sentai_Sage
I have them all.
I have leader. I can't badge anymore. Please. Someone please. Fix this. |
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Originally Posted by Snow_Globe
Actually, it isn't a bad standard at all. Without people actively subverting the system, Positron would have looked at the badge requirements sooner.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Ah, and you got this from your crystal ball or telepathy? I don't recall him actually SAYING this. If we can assume whatever we want, then base our arguments on those assumptions, well, the sky's the limit, isn't it?
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Originally Posted by Snow_Globe
My, how quickly people forget. To refresh your memory, Positron discussed Empath with DJ Jules and Castle on Split Infinity Radio. (Link to the MP3 so you can listen yourself.)
Additionally, Positron and CuppaJo had been interviewed several years ago on City Info Terminal (I'm not sure if Maverick still has it, but it was lost for public access in a server move around 2 years ago) that said the reason that they limited credit to actual healing was that they did not want the badge to be farmed. So you see I don't need to assume anything here. Positron has said that he has held back badge changes because people have "earned" said badges. You fail. |
I dispute that this is a logical conclusion / chain of thought.
Oh, and I mark you "Fail" for your inapplicable "You fail." comment.
My FACTS were all in order. I was simply disputing your conclusions.
P.S. My initial 'crystal ball' comment got me positive commentary, so I wasn't the only one to take issue with your statement.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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I think someone is upset that they cannot muster the courage to publically admit they are wrong. Instead they are leaving negative rep to try to drown out the opposing view. |
Originally Posted by Sardan
I just saw that my above post got negative rep, being labeled an assumption.
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"Too many assumptions being stated as facts", yet when I post backing up my statements, I get "If you could dial your arrogance back to 10, that would be great. (it's on 11 now)"
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Ah, and you got this from your crystal ball or telepathy? I don't recall him actually SAYING this. If we can assume whatever we want, then base our arguments on those assumptions, well, the sky's the limit, isn't it?
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
I forgot nothing. However I see that you equate 'looking at badge requirements' in general with the particulars of his excuse for Empath (which I do agree was a lame one).
I dispute that this is a logical conclusion / chain of thought. |
That post quoting Positron alone proves my point: If someone has the badge, they hesitate to change the requirements.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Oh, and I mark you "Fail" for your inapplicable "You fail." comment.
My FACTS were all in order. I was simply disputing your conclusions. |
Which conclusion was "wrong" and why? I explained my standard
"Actually, it isn't a bad standard at all. Without people actively subverting the system, Positron would have looked at the badge requirements sooner."
I can provide the Mentor badges as proof, because within a month of Issue 5's release the mentoring badges were changed. No one had any of that series and they reduced all 3. I know for a fact that there were people that were already farming the damage and healing badges at that time.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
P.S. My initial 'crystal ball' comment got me positive commentary, so I wasn't the only one to take issue with your statement.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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<sigh> False.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
You said that you don't recall him saying that he refused to change requirements after people got the badge. When I post a direct quote (with audio) from Positron saying exactly that, you backpedal.
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Your exact statement with which I took exception was:
"Without people actively subverting the system, Positron would have looked at the badge requirements sooner."
I took exception to your claiming to know Posi's thought process and/or state of mind. And don't you think -repping my last response was a bit childish? I was going to -rep you back with a suitable reply and signing it, as you did. But one of us is bigger than that.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Then you should have said so without the sarcasm. I gave feedback, with my name attached, about that tone. If you want a decent conversation, I am willing to talk at whatever level you choose. I did not start with that tone and I don't want to continue at that level.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
<sigh> False.
Your exact statement with which I took exception was: "Without people actively subverting the system, Positron would have looked at the badge requirements sooner." I took exception to your claiming to know Posi's thought process and/or state of mind. |
Given his own recorded statements, I don't think I have come to the wrong conclusion. The interview I linked to said exactly that he would have changed the requirements sooner. Additionally, his statements in the past support that statement. Like it or not, he IS worried about "devaluing" badges that people have achieved. Even if that achievement is through means that the development team don't like.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Go take a look, guys. The official list is up on the Test boards.
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Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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Do you have the new "Mistress/Master" badges for the ITF and BTF? |
Originally Posted by Sentai_Sage
I have them all.
I have leader. I can't badge anymore. Please. Someone please. Fix this. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I think you missed my point all together. |
Originally Posted by Sardan
Okay, congratulations, you did it the hard way. You're hardcore. We all bow in your direction and marvel at the size of your e-peen. Now give it a rest already.
Many of the badges were set up with unintentionally difficult goals. It was a mistake. Mistakes should be corrected. They shouldn't be enshrined because some people have suffered through them and feel that others must thus evermore endure the same level of suffering. |
"Yay we all win!"
I won, I got the badge ... you win when they finally lower the requirements and you get the badge. We'll have the same badge we both win!
This has nothing to do with my e-peen whatever that is, I have to assume you mean my *****, which has never won a me a badge (in CoH at least)
Many of the goals were difficult I don't argue that, possibly even unintentionally so. Unachievablely so? not at all as several have achieved them.
Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
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I hope this isn't directed towards me, I have never left rep nor have I ever laced courage to admit I am wrong, in fact I did it earlier in this thread. |
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I think someone is upset that they cannot muster the courage to publically admit they are wrong. Instead they are leaving negative rep to try to drown out the opposing view.
"Too many assumptions being stated as facts", yet when I post backing up my statements, I get "If you could dial your arrogance back to 10, that would be great. (it's on 11 now)" |
You are right, lowering the goals and making the mini-game of badge hunting pointless ...err I mean more reasonable is the best thing for the game overall.
Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
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Nope, my annoyance there is only with the people that post negative rep without leaving their name.
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Originally Posted by _23X_
I hope this isn't directed towards me, I have never left rep
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Well, my bad. I thought you were being sarcastic and I apologize. Mea culpa.|
Originally Posted by _23X_
I think you missed my point all together.
"Yay we all win!" I won, I got the badge ... you win when they finally lower the requirements and you get the badge. We'll have the same badge we both win! |
EDIT: OK, I can see you were just being a jerk from your similarly "sincere" post in the i16 beta forum:
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I hope that someday they'll nerf the rest of the badges too: missed anniversary 100 merits (and then 10 after that is deemed too high) day jobs in a day (we are super heroes after all!) pvp rep lowered to 40 ( a reduction to match the drop in players in pvp) etc ... |
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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AKA the "MO badges that don't mean anything because a team of monkeys could get them?" |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Do you have the new "Mistress/Master" badges for the ITF and BTF?
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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I will work on them as soon as 16 goes live, but I doubt I will be working on them for how ever many months it will take for the next issue to come out.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Do you have the new "Mistress/Master" badges for the ITF and BTF?
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And I am day-jobbing, but I want to "badge" with FG.
I need a badge to work on. I NEED one. Just one. One more, please. That's all I need. Badge please, you can spare one, right? It's just one badge. pleaseIneedabadgetoworkonorIamgoingtogocrazy!
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I think I love Synapse in a totally platonic brotherly way.
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Originally Posted by IanTheM1
Go take a look, guys. The official list is up on the Test boards.
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Character index
Looking over the list I think that it has been driven by a careful examination of rates etc by Synapse.
I think most a great a couple are probably overly trimmed, but again if its data driven that over-rides my perceptions.
I would like (in a non-calling out type way) Synpase to come along maybe after the patch goes live and describe in general terms the process he used, would be interesting.
Sort of like how the merits per task got a lot more understandable after the explanations of how they approached.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Same, but w/ 2 hero toons once I16 hits |
Originally Posted by Sentai_Sage
I have them all.
I have leader. I can't badge anymore. Please. Someone please. Fix this. |
I just long for the day when all my day job badges are done as well as any new badges that come out w/ the current issue and all that are left are the Vet badges that I have to just sit back and earn (although there will always be Bug Hunter to elude me....)
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UltraBatz, lvl 50 MA/SR Scrapper (1355 badges)
UberBatz, lvl 50 Peacebringer (769 badges)
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I'm mixed about the changes.
Some of the requirements were pretty crazy without there being any challenge outside of actually applying yourself to get them and I'm very glad the illusionist badge that are a gateway to something I really want on all my characters and similar are changing.
On the other hand, I put in a couple months of farming pillboxes, followed by a stay-up-way-way-past-my-bedtime crazed charge to get the last 100 when I finally got together with a decent team to do it. Now it'll be possible to do it fairly easily in a week. Same with the 1 billion inf badge, I worked on that off and on for 6 months on a single target tank and finished it up finally in a 15ish hour rush for the last 170 mill inf during double xp. Now I could knock it out in about half again the time it took me to finish off just the "I'm so close now, I need to finish it" bit.
Those two badges aren't "worth" anything other than a higher badge count. I'm not saying they shouldn't be reduced, I'm just a bit sad at the time I put into them, apparently needlessly.
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Can anyone confirm that the MO badge requirements for ITF, DKTF, and BSF are the same as STF, and LRSF, i.e. No Deaths, No Temporary Powers?
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Do you have the new "Mistress/Master" badges for the ITF and BTF? ;)
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@Cannonfodder
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If said badges actually existed, I'm sure the requirements would be the same as RSF/STF |
Originally Posted by Storyteller
Can anyone confirm that the MO badge requirements for ITF, DKTF, and BSF are the same as STF, and LRSF, i.e. No Deaths, No Temporary Powers?
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Don't feel too bad. Those badges are two prime examples of badges with requirements that needed reevaluation. I too have the pillbox badge and the Popular badge, still working on Leader, and yes they were a timesink, but do I feel bad? Nope. Now I could send alts after those badges knowing they can get them quicker/more efficiently.
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Originally Posted by Quatermain
I'm mixed about the changes.
Some of the requirements were pretty crazy without there being any challenge outside of actually applying yourself to get them and I'm very glad the illusionist badge that are a gateway to something I really want on all my characters and similar are changing. On the other hand, I put in a couple months of farming pillboxes, followed by a stay-up-way-way-past-my-bedtime crazed charge to get the last 100 when I finally got together with a decent team to do it. Now it'll be possible to do it fairly easily in a week. Same with the 1 billion inf badge, I worked on that off and on for 6 months on a single target tank and finished it up finally in a 15ish hour rush for the last 170 mill inf during double xp. Now I could knock it out in about half again the time it took me to finish off just the "I'm so close now, I need to finish it" bit. Those two badges aren't "worth" anything other than a higher badge count. I'm not saying they shouldn't be reduced, I'm just a bit sad at the time I put into them, apparently needlessly. |
yay everyone wins!
Many of the badges were set up with unintentionally difficult goals. It was a mistake. Mistakes should be corrected. They shouldn't be enshrined because some people have suffered through them and feel that others must thus evermore endure the same level of suffering.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.