Reduced Badge Requirements in I16
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-08-20 10:15 in Badges and Gladiators
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Your points are good, but I wonder if your confidence is misplaced. There are certainly some badges that need to be adjusted, but what was done to the MA badges was just ridiculous. If they trash the entire badge system in a similar vein, I'm confident they will lose some players over it.
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Originally Posted by Sardan
This is a game we're talking about. It's supposed to be fun. Sure, it should have challenges, even some extremely difficult ones. But the challenges should be intentional and they should be part of a thoughtfully designed framework. Accolade requirements like having to get 10 million points of damage or defeat 500 summoned illusionists were designed without an understanding of what was reasonable in regular gameplay. It's the right decision to tone them down. I don't want to see them trivialized, but I'm confident Synapse won't do that. I think there's a happy medium that's possible between stupidly difficult and stupidly trivial.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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just the opposite, now everyone is a badge collector; an epic one at that !
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Originally Posted by Wen_Ho
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If this list is true then it comes pretty close to killing badge collecting as a long term post 50 mini-game. I hope the new content is compelling. |
Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
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Why the resentment towards changes that brings badge requirements into numbers that can be achieved during game play as opposed to afk-farming? If you want to play the badging mini-game afk, go nuts - none of these changes will make that less effective. If you want to stick with a character and earn it actively over a very long career, that isn't impossible anymore. |
Originally Posted by Wen_Ho
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If this list is true then it comes pretty close to killing badge collecting as a long term post 50 mini-game. I hope the new content is compelling. |
Not idling for badges is a good addition, in my opinion. I just wonder why you think that's bad.
Personally, I like that some of the defeat badges, Zookeeper, Illusionist, etc. are a little bit difficult. It makes me feel more accomplished for having them. So many things have been a lot easier to achieve lately. Since AE getting a 50 is as easy as getting an ITF formed.
If they make everything so easy that anyone can get it, then the fun of a challenge decays.
As for the epic badges, Damage, Money etc. I do not think they need tweeked at all, cuz if you get them then it shows how good or dedicated you are to the game.
Just my worthless opinion there, like it or not, w/e.
Be sure to drink your
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Darnit.. Guess I came too late to see this "list". |
Originally Posted by Wen_Ho
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If this list is true then it comes pretty close to killing badge collecting as a long term post 50 mini-game. I hope the new content is compelling. |
Lady Arete on Unionhandbook
My Excel Badge tool
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Yeah, I've been in meetings all day and I just looked at the thread going "List? What list?" |
Originally Posted by Lady Arete
Darnit.. Guess I came too late to see this "list".
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Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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How so? Do you mean removing badges? Or do you mean reducing badges to near insignificance and making them account-wide?|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Maybe, maybe not.
There are a handful of badges that really are unreasonable, but if they employ the same idiotic carpet-bomb approach that they did with the MA badges, it will be bad. |
Honestly I don't expect either of those to happen (I mean, I'd love it if something like Field Crafter were account-wide, but that won't happen). At most I'd just like to see a few of the "harder to get" badges have their requirements lowered, especially if they're tied into an accolade.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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I view badges as an annoying hurdle to obtaining accolades, much as I view levels 1-49 an annoying hurdle to getting to 50, IOing up, and wandering off to PvP. I don't mean I want "you get all your accolades for free!" (though if they offered the four passives and the two good clicks as a microtransaction I'd snap that up) but I don't want to be spending hours killing grey-conning mobs or AFKing overnight or slogging through low-level task forces. I'm alright with badge requirements that are reasonable.
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Originally Posted by Red_Addiction
Personally, I like that some of the defeat badges, Zookeeper, Illusionist, etc. are a little bit difficult. It makes me feel more accomplished for having them. So many things have been a lot easier to achieve lately. Since AE getting a 50 is as easy as getting an ITF formed.
If they make everything so easy that anyone can get it, then the fun of a challenge decays. As for the epic badges, Damage, Money etc. I do not think they need tweeked at all, cuz if you get them then it shows how good or dedicated you are to the game. Just my worthless opinion there, like it or not, w/e. |
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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*waves blue fuzzy hand*|
Originally Posted by Sardan
Yeah, I've been in meetings all day and I just looked at the thread going "List? What list?"
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This is not the list you are looking for.
That blue thing running around saying "Cookies are sometimes food" is Praetorian Cookie Monster!
Shoot on sight, please.
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Ideally (for me) they would fix the various badge exploits and farms and then bring the requirements to a place where they can be earned within a year or so of playing the game with an eye towards earning the badges. I never thought they'd be able to do that and I doubt they've done it now. Without the exploits and farms dealt with, people will still use them and I believe more people will use them because now they won't have to leave their computer on over night for nine months.|
Originally Posted by Evilmeister
Why the resentment towards changes that brings badge requirements into numbers that can be achieved during game play as opposed to afk-farming? If you want to play the badging mini-game afk, go nuts - none of these changes will make that less effective. If you want to stick with a character and earn it actively over a very long career, that isn't impossible anymore.
Not idling for badges is a good addition, in my opinion. I just wonder why you think that's bad. |
I guess the devs are speaking and they want to take badges in this direction which is fine. Speaking for myself alone, it doesn't leave me much to do. I truly feel that I've experienced just about as much as I can in the game. If the badges that they come out with from now on take less than two weeks to obtain then I really really hope that any new content takes longer than two weeks before I feel like I've done it to death. So far my experience has been that that is not the case.
Mod 08 slapped my hand w/ a ruler because of the list
Either way...if the changes I saw go through, I wouldn't mind, though I'm still hardly anywhere near the proposed damage badge changes. Over 3 years and my Invul Tank has only taken 14 million damage sans Accolade buffs <_<
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I said self imposed, you even quoted it ... we all follow the developer imposed rules. if not play exactly to their desire. |
Originally Posted by Snow_Globe
The problem is that the rules and regulations are set out by the developers, not us.
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Originally Posted by Snow_Globe
Even though badge collecting is a fraction of the player base, most of those that I know of that collect badges would find collecting badges while not playing to be anti-ethical. There is around a dozen players that I know that think otherwise though. |
Ohh also
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Originally Posted by Snow_Globe
... that collect badges would find collecting badges while not playing to be anti-ethical.
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Originally Posted by Snow_Globe
Let's say for the sake of argument that there is 50 on the North American servers (I have no basis for comparison for the European servers). Given that there is at least 100,000 accounts on the North American servers, I think I'm right in saying "irregular user".
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I hope the 75% cuts to some of the epic badges makes them more to your liking.
Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
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Following the letter of the rules while ignoring the intent is an ethical choice. But thanks for the ad hominem.|
Originally Posted by _23X_
I said self imposed, you even quoted it ... we all follow the developer imposed rules. if not play exactly to their desire.
you are calling me un-ethical? for how I choose to play a game? Seriously? Are you invoking Godwin's law next? |
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Originally Posted by _23X_
two words: day jobs If you or anyone has ever "parked a toon at the tailors" (or any day job spot that wasn't where you just happened to be when you ended a play session) that is no different that afk farming the heal badge.
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Originally Posted by _23X_
I am a special and unique flower, there is not another one like me, just like everyone else. so are we all irregular or all normal?
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Originally Posted by _23X_
I hope the 75% cuts to some of the epic badges makes them more to your liking.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Okay, so you personally know only a dozen. So what? Everyone with Empath got it via those 'anti ethical' means.
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Originally Posted by Snow_Globe
Even though badge collecting is a fraction of the player base, most of those that I know of that collect badges would find collecting badges while not playing to be anti-ethical. There is around a dozen players that I know that think otherwise though.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Maybe, maybe not.
There are a handful of badges that really are unreasonable, but if they employ the same idiotic carpet-bomb approach that they did with the MA badges, it will be bad. |
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Originally Posted by macskull
How so? Do you mean removing badges? Or do you mean reducing badges to near insignificance and making them account-wide?
Honestly I don't expect either of those to happen (I mean, I'd love it if something like Field Crafter were account-wide, but that won't happen). At most I'd just like to see a few of the "harder to get" badges have their requirements lowered, especially if they're tied into an accolade. |
I hope.. HOPE they don't gut the entire badge system the same way. I would agree, I don't 'expect' it to happen. On the other hand, I didn't expect the senseless carnage done to the MA badges.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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If I recall correctly, the amount of characters on either CIT or BH with Empath is below 80 (a lot of them the same on both sites). I believe CIT is at 69 verified characters with the Empath badge.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Okay, so you personally know only a dozen. So what? Everyone with Empath got it via those 'anti ethical' means.
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So let us say 200 characters have Empath to take into those driven people that don't use the badge sites. This is out of several million characters. Seems like a fringe activity to me.
Additionally several of those characters belong to the same account holder. I know of one group of characters belonging to one person.
So we have around 200 accounts that want to break the spirit of the rules to get badges. So what? The amount of people with the badge is irrelevant to the question of the ethics involved. It doesn't matter if it was only one person or if it were 10,000 people. The principle is the same: They broke the spirit of the badge requirements.
It is a black or white situation: Did the person get the badge through intended means? Even by your admission they did not.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I never said it wasn't a fringe activity. And I think your estimate is low. I have Empath on two toons and neither is on a badge site.|
Originally Posted by Snow_Globe
If I recall correctly, the amount of characters on either CIT or BH with Empath is below 80 (a lot of them the same on both sites). I believe CIT is at 69 verified characters with the Empath badge.
So let us say 200 characters have Empath to take into those driven people that don't use the badge sites. This is out of several million characters. Seems like a fringe activity to me. |
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| It is a black or white situation: Did the person get the badge through intended means? Even by your admission they did not. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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You are right. I should have said 200 people out of a couple hundred thousand account holders. My mistake in equating characters with people.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
I never said it wasn't a fringe activity. And I think your estimate is low. I have Empath on two toons and neither is on a badge site.
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Originally Posted by Snow_Globe
It is a black or white situation: Did the person get the badge through intended means? Even by your admission they did not.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
With all due respect, I still think it's a totally BS standard. Did ANYONE get them 'legit'? Is it POSSIBLE to have gotten them 'legit'? (Possible in THEORY, maybe. Possible for anyone with a life, hardly.)
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It was never possible to earn the Empath badge without farming. It was never possible to earn the epic damage taken badges without afk farming. Yet the fact that people actually have the badges makes the developers hesitant to change the requirements to values that could be achievable through play.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
I would like to think the datamining was there since they were well aware of the Gladiator Healing farms for quite a long time.
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Ah, and you got this from your crystal ball or telepathy? I don't recall him actually SAYING this. If we can assume whatever we want, then base our arguments on those assumptions, well, the sky's the limit, isn't it?
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Originally Posted by Snow_Globe
Actually, it isn't a bad standard at all. Without people actively subverting the system, Positron would have looked at the badge requirements sooner.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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The contacts unlocked by those badges are 45-50, even without Ouroboros it's impossible to outlevel them. With Ouroboros, any unlocked, outleveled content can still be played, that's the whole point of the Flashback system.|
Originally Posted by Desi_Nova
I can add 2 more
as well as any "kill x" badge required to unlock a contact |
/unsigned on this sentiment, sorry.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Number 204 (unlocked by the Toxic Tarantulas) is 40-44. Personally I enjoyed having to do the contact a "favour" for it to trust me enough to handle delicate tasks so I'd like to see these requirements stay. The numbers can be a bit high though if you try to do it within "the correct" level bracket.
All these changes in badge requirements will pretty much make those badges meaningless unless loopholes are closed and kills that grant rewards only count for badge credit.
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Ohh there will be meaning, it means that those that have ******* and moaned for years finally get the same badge rewards that we got years ago by working with the tools we had. |
Originally Posted by BurninUp
All these changes in badge requirements will pretty much make those badges meaningless unless loopholes are closed and kills that grant rewards only count for badge credit.
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yay everyone wins!
Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
<QR>
If this list is true then it comes pretty close to killing badge collecting as a long term post 50 mini-game. I hope the new content is compelling.