Reduced Badge Requirements in I16
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-08-20 10:15 in Badges and Gladiators
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I think they just reduced it because they realized that even 100M isn't practical to achieve through normal gameplay either. I'm sure arena farming will still happen for non-healing toons and/or to make that last push to 10M.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Who (besides me) thinks that this means they finally fixed the gladiators/arena so that healing undamaged targets is no longer counted? (Or healing in the arena is not counted at all, or perhaps gladiator healing no longer counts.)
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This isn't to say that gladiator heals will always count, but it's more likely that it'll be taken away at a later date if they find that "too many people are earning it that way", instead of naturally.
I just made a suggestion about a change to the badge system. Those of you who've been following this thread may want to check it out. While I'm not a dedicated badger by any means, as I followed this thread I was powerfully reminded that there's a segment of players that really get into it. This new world of reduced badge requirements is good for folks like me who mainly want to get accolades in a reasonable amount of time, but if you really enjoyed dedicating yourself to the minigame of getting badges, it must seem like they're hollowing out the game.
Adding badges like the "Master of" ones are a great idea, but the problem is that a badger can get those very quickly, then it's a long wait for the next release, hoping for more badges. But if those new badges are very modest "kill 20" of something, again that gets done super fast.
So my suggestion is to extend the Ouroboros method of awarding challenge badges to normal content in a way that wouldn't be labor intensive for the devs after the initial coding was done and could be used to award several variant badges for any TF or arc.
Y'all might think it's a terrible idea of course 
, but I was trying to think of a system that would give you something to work towards that wouldn't be over the day after a new release, yet wasn't simply reverting to the old "massive numbers" style of badges.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
I don't know, Sardan.
I'm a life long badger (in fact, it was my suggestion years ago that turned this board from Arena/Gladiator discussion to a dedicated badge forum. For years, if you clicked the Badge Discussion board on the old software, it was listed as HvH, or Hero vs Hero), I don't think these changes hollow out any of the minigame.
There is still a dedicated minigame to getting all badges, it's just less painful. I'm all for adding new badges to existing content, but I don't think any other additional changes really need to be made to existing changes to make the challenge more difficult.
I've had at least one friend quit the game for over two years because he couldn't stand hunting DE eminators with me. A lot of the badges they changed here were either impossible to get or just plain unfun to get. Especially Toxic Tarantulas.
As for how many badges I'll get when i16 hits: 6. 7 if I drop 3 more bombs in the Rikti Raid. Surprisingly I won't be getting the last two infamy badges quite yet... stupid running in SG mode.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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I have to disagree here, more changeling badges is exactly what the badging mini-game needs. especially now that there are fewer challenges left. |
Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
I don't know, Sardan.
There is still a dedicated minigame to getting all badges, it's just less painful. I'm all for adding new badges to existing content, but I don't think any other additional changes really need to be made to existing changes to make the challenge more difficult. |
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Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
I've had at least one friend quit the game for over two years because he couldn't stand hunting DE eminators with me. A lot of the badges they changed here were either impossible to get or just plain unfun to get. Especially Toxic Tarantulas.
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To use a personal example, Bug hunter, it's a badge and it is earnable, but I have no interest in working for free. QA in a gaming company is a job that should be respected and paid IMO, not something that you let your players pay you to do. (but I don't want to go off on a tagent here) So I won't be getting Bug Hunter. I don't bemoan the system for my choice.
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Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
As for how many badges I'll get when i16 hits: 6. 7 if I drop 3 more bombs in the Rikti Raid. Surprisingly I won't be getting the last two infamy badges quite yet... stupid running in SG mode.
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Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
Well here's the thing, X: None of those badges were "challenging". They just take a loooong time of doing something very easy. I mean, AFK healing in the arena? You can literally do that in your sleep! That's NOT difficult. Illusionist was only difficult because you still needed to keep an eye and make sure you didn't get mezzed or that the Master Illusionist didn't fly away.
Now MASTER TF badges, those are difficult. You and a team united in a goal to not die, while having the most powerful abilities in the game be rendered unusable... definitely a challenge, especially since a decent number of people use vet temps as part of their attack chain.
That's what we need more of: Badges where you only have to do something once (or maybe just a few times), but doing that one thing may take multiple attempts and strategy to accomplish.
Just my opinion, though.
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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X, I've been badgehunting for 5 years now, since day one of issue 2, and I'm just now getting some of the epic badges like medicine man or empath. There is no "challenge" to these epic badges if you are playing a character that's a dedicated healer, like my main badge hunter is, and even he can't get the epic heal badges through normal play. | I am glad you'll be able to take advantage of the new lower goals for the badges. |
The old epic requirements were constantly dangling carrots, meant to be earned through years of play. Fast forward issues and issues and years and years later and the only way to earn them is through damage farming or exploiting gladiators. I think Posi revisiting these limits and realizing that they just aren't being earned through normal play even years later is a good thing.
If they came in tomorrow and replaced all the kill X badges with kill 1 of each villain type, I'd be angry. There is no challenge to just beating one Freak Tank. But those badges are still a challenge to be earned. And most people will earn them through normal play if they are on full teams, which is where the challenge will come from.
The future of badges should be rewarding people for doing various things in new ways. I'm not 100% behind the "Master of X" badges since it relies on others for you to earn them, but perhaps if they change it to being awarded to people who don't themselves use temp powers or die during a SF/TF. That I can live with. Or giving out badges for killing certain ATs in PvP for the first time or completing a certain amount of story arcs in a given part of the game.
It's a bit like the problem some games have with achievements on the Xbox. You can go the easy way and give out achievements like candy, like Avatar the Last Airbender. Or you can give people a game where 1000 gamerpoints is possible with a little bit of work, like Fable 2 or Fallout 3, and feature a mixture of achievements that are challenging or simple but fun. I'd hope we get a bit more of the simple but fun to mix in there.
Edit: And just for the record -- even with the new limits, there's still badges I need to work towards and will be a challenge for me. I didn't get Disruptor back when CoV launched and it was being given out by completing a PvP zone mission. So getting 400 rep is going to take time and be a challenge for me, just like planting 10 bombs on the Rikti Drop Ship will be for new badge hunters or overtaking 100 pillboxes. Those are still challenges even at the lower levels.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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1. The Rularuu weapon unlocks sooner and easier for villains than heroes. Try again after research.|
Originally Posted by Techbot_Alpha_EU
Still need to address the likes of Unveiler and Cap Buster redside.
Y'know, those horrible horrible, defeat X ones, which happen to be for unlockables....which are, sort of, nigh on impossible to achive? Oh, and the ones for Rularuu weapons? Which are two arcs in the entirety of CoV? Seriously, Heroes got enemy proliferation in the Hollows, and they have access to all the enemies they need. Villains? Fake Nems and Paragon Protectors in better numbers outside of missions, redcaps, Family bosses and Overseers in ANY numbers. Please, kay, thanks. |
2. Family bosses for CoV has gotten a very nice fix:
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Originally Posted by Blondeshell
According to the testing I did tonight, these are specifically which critters count for which badges:
 Untouchable definitely looks better, but the badge text is confusing because the "Marcone" versions refer to the bio text and not the mob names (like in St. Martial). Gangbuster can be a little tricky, too, because the "Don" versions don't count. However, considering how infrequently those versions spawn, it shouldn't be too noticeable when hunting. |
To be clear: Synapse fixed the requirements only, and only those requirements that did not affect any other department. So mob placing, new missions, technical fixes, and artwork was never considered in these changes. Any mob changes, new missions, technical fixes, or artwork (or any other change requiring anything more than changing numbers on a table) will have to wait.
We will likely get Going Rogue before any of those happen, and they might consider that the solution to limited mob opportunities for either side.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Hardly. For the specific missions which unlock the Shard, you need to head to Nerva at a very specific level to start paper missions. After the bank, you have to pick Darla Mavis. Then you have to run her arc. And then Psymon Omega's arc. And THEN you get to Technician Naylor. Now, you might be able to simply out level them, then get given the next contact, but, if you forget, you're screwed.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
1. The Rularuu weapon unlocks sooner and easier for villains than heroes. Try again after research.
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Either that, or you have to pick Scirroco's arc, which some might not want to do.
Now, explain to me how that is easier then simply getting a team of friends together and strolling in and opening a can of hurt on the Rularuu in the Shadow Shard, which has unlimited access and chances for levelling anyway?
It's more annoying when you miss it on a character who you want the weapons on (stalker) and I didnt see you needed the whole contact chain to get to them.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Have you forgotten completely about the flashback system?
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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Nope. In fact, thats the first thing I tried.|
Originally Posted by Vanden
Have you forgotten completely about the flashback system?
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My stalker had outleveled Darla Mavis, who you need to unlock Psimon Omega. I completed her arc in Flashback. No, I dont know if it ever was meant to unlock contacts again, probably not.
However, Naylors arc is not in the same level range as Darla or Psimon. He's in the 35-45 (might be 35-40) range. Which effectively means you have to wait till 40 to access it if you miss the specific contact tree.
Either way, it's a hell of a lot more hassle than just unloading pain on the Shard with a group of friends, which is fully possible Blueside.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Regardless of the level of Bravo for the Shadowshard arc from Naylor, it can be completed in a fairly quick amount of time and once you get the souvenier you unlock the Rularuu weapons. |
Originally Posted by Techbot_Alpha_EU
Nope. In fact, thats the first thing I tried.
My stalker had outleveled Darla Mavis, who you need to unlock Psimon Omega. I completed her arc in Flashback. No, I dont know if it ever was meant to unlock contacts again, probably not. However, Naylors arc is not in the same level range as Darla or Psimon. He's in the 35-45 (might be 35-40) range. Which effectively means you have to wait till 40 to access it if you miss the specific contact tree. Either way, it's a hell of a lot more hassle than just unloading pain on the Shard with a group of friends, which is fully possible Blueside. |
Though perhaps ish 16 and the level alterations and super sidekicking may facilitate quicker unlocks.
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On a side note, whenever I want the rularuu weapon unlock on Heroes, I simply finish a Shard TF. That unlocks it in a short time without having to hunt around either. That seems fairly easy for Hero-side.
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Originally Posted by Vanden
Have you forgotten completely about the flashback system?
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The problem is more that you need to have someone you know, or whos just plain generous, that will team up for that specific mission. And they have to have that mission. If no one around has that mission, your stuffed, unless your low enough to stand a chance of getting it.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Regardless of the level of Bravo for the Shadowshard arc from Naylor, it can be completed in a fairly quick amount of time and once you get the souvenier you unlock the Rularuu weapons.
Though perhaps ish 16 and the level alterations and super sidekicking may facilitate quicker unlocks. |
Hopefully I16 may help some, and GR may in fact put an end to most of the unlockable weapons badge worries once and for all. It's still a major annoyance at the moment sadly =[
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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To be honest, I don't think the term "short time" applies to completing a shard TF |
Originally Posted by Master-Blade
On a side note, whenever I want the rularuu weapon unlock on Heroes, I simply finish a Shard TF. That unlocks it in a short time without having to hunt around either. That seems fairly easy for Hero-side.
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Now a Shard TF giving 100 Rularuu boss kills in a short time, yes.
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Originally Posted by Techbot_Alpha_EU
The problem is more that you need to have someone you know, or whos just plain generous, that will team up for that specific mission. And they have to have that mission. If no one around has that mission, your stuffed, unless your low enough to stand a chance of getting it.
Hopefully I16 may help some, and GR may in fact put an end to most of the unlockable weapons badge worries once and for all. It's still a major annoyance at the moment sadly =[ |
Blueside, A TF or kill 200 Eyeballs
Redside, get to 40, do a flashback. (Normally takes me solo under 20 minutes)
I fail to see how much harder redside is for this one. This is one of the very few things villains have better than heroes. That and buying the jetpack at lvl 1
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Not quite 100 kills depending on the circumstances, but not all the Shard TFs are long either.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
To be honest, I don't think the term "short time" applies to completing a shard TF
Now a Shard TF giving 100 Rularuu boss kills in a short time, yes. |
The point is, you get a badge for the TF anyway, and you still get inf and other rewards while you are playing.. as opposed to spending almost the same amount of time hunting in open fields for specific enemies and possibly getting no other rewards from them if they are Grey.
I've never bothered doing the arc on Villain-side, so I'm sure that's still easier than Hero-side.. but I think doing a TF is easier than hunting for foes. I suppose it depends who know, so you can get a good team together.
As for badge hunters.. if somebody going to run each of the 4 TFs for their respective badges, they'd most likely get Visionary naturally as well, so it'd be a waste of time to hunt.
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Obviously my experiences are favored more towards the redside, my signature badge count will attest for that. But here's how I figure out:|
Originally Posted by Gypsy_of_Paradox
Blueside, A TF or kill 200 Eyeballs
Redside, get to 40, do a flashback. (Normally takes me solo under 20 minutes) I fail to see how much harder redside is for this one. This is one of the very few things villains have better than heroes. That and buying the jetpack at lvl 1 |
On Taser, I got Overseer by just happening to walk into the Shard one afternoon when a larger SG was hunting for them and they had a spot open. If I didn't get it there, I would have got it during a Lanaruu TF.
On Plot, I got Overseer by constantly resetting and farming a portal mission with 4 other people. It was not fun and it did not come naturally (though it is nowhere near as bad as early day Banished Masks farming redside was). I had to go out of my way to get it by resetting a mission, which I believe is a game mechanic the devs are trying to keep us from having to do to earn badges.
Yes, that was before flashback. But even still, it does take more than one pass through the portal to get said badge.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
I got Overseer redside half by doing that portal mission but the mission accidentaly failed. I got the remaining half by flashing back to "Alone in the Darque" 23 or so times. The last mission has three ambushes that each include one eye boss, even on heroic.
That blue thing running around saying "Cookies are sometimes food" is Praetorian Cookie Monster!
Shoot on sight, please.
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You can run Justin Augustine in an hour to an hour and a half which I would consider a short time for a task force (unfortunately it's the least interesting shard TF).
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Originally Posted by Nericus
To be honest, I don't think the term "short time" applies to completing a shard TF
Now a Shard TF giving 100 Rularuu boss kills in a short time, yes. |
Plus, Augustine's are still a great way to earn influence.
I remember we used to do it almost weekly in my SG before CoV. One night it was myself and two scrappers with superjump, so I had to do just about all of the flying and travel missions on my own waiting for them to geyser over.
Good times indeed.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
Maybe the Rularuu weapons badge isnt the best example.
But I don't think anyone can deny the likes of the PP and Redcap badges. An unlockable that means you HAVE to be online for the valentine and winter events? What if you can't? You're out of luck?
Hardly a good call on that one. And Crey PPs are a devil to fine. As are Fake Nems, unless you farm the likes of 'Battle for Telivision' with a team.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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How much of these troubles will be erased with Going Rogue, though?
I know I have little to no qualms about switching my main villain badge collector hero just to finish up his sets.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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Fake Nems can be found on the main island of Grandville, in several RWZ missions, and in the RWZ.|
Originally Posted by Techbot_Alpha_EU
Maybe the Rularuu weapons badge isnt the best example.
But I don't think anyone can deny the likes of the PP and Redcap badges. An unlockable that means you HAVE to be online for the valentine and winter events? What if you can't? You're out of luck? Hardly a good call on that one. And Crey PPs are a devil to fine. As are Fake Nems, unless you farm the likes of 'Battle for Telivision' with a team. |
As for Paragon Protectors: Crey missions level 30+ (you can now set mission to think you are a full team for more bosses), the demon PPs, and the PP elites (both in the Fab or in missions). Sorry, but PPs are accessible. The only 2 missions that cause an advantage for heroes are the 7th Gen PP missions.
Finally, I'll repeat myself since you seem to have ignored this the first time I posted:
Synapse fixed the requirements only, and only those requirements that did not affect any other department.
So none of the following changes were looked at for these changes:
- Mob placing
- New missions
- Technical fixes
- Artwork
Any complaints that involve those four points is fruitless at the moment.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
I look forward to being able to exploit the difficulty settings to produce PPs so I can run content (Viridian) on my villain main. No one villain-side has ever managed to get Infiltrator, not even my badger. >_>
As for the blanket requirement changes, I've a mixed bag of feelings on that. Or a mixed feeling bag. Whatever. IE, and I recognize that Snow Globe just pointed out the impracticability of this option, just having TTs spawn regularly in missions and zones. Which they don't, at least, not like everything else. Four years of playing CoV and I've just managed to find 50 on my villain main, and I'm done. Finally get to run #204.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
The Ouroboros badges are an example of a good set of badges. There's a lot of them, and they're tough to get (last night I slogged my way through a couple 1-14 arcs, it was torture), but the only way for you to get them is to work through them. That's a challenge I appreciate (even if I do start hurling obscenities at the screen...). Taking 10 million trillion damage? Defeating 10,000 Flying Dingus Minions? Not so much.
I fully admit I AFK'ed a few of the badges, but that was my choice, If I chose not to I could have gotten most of the badges anyway. For me most all of my game play revolves around efficiency, including badges.
I agree the Ouro badges were a fun set to get, and glad they didn't get nerfed too,
Challenge rewards are sometimes in the journey, sometimes in the destination.
Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.