It finally makes sense to me
By
AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2009-08-17 22:10 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Another theory:
Maybe I15 was so small because they were too focused on I16, and knew we would forgive and forget once I16 hit us in the face. Diverting resources, and placating us until the Big One was ready to drop.
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
Issue 15 not really was small, it was abused.
It filled the gap that WoW did on his new emblem of err conquest or whatever its called. Lotsa goodies (ok free SO's became no-slotting at all), aiming for the 'big stuff', more casual, player friendly, in short: easy mode.
The impact varies per server, not only US/EU wise, but also among the servers of US.
Is really everyone waiting for yet MORE profiflifin.. copied powersets, waiting for 'super duper hard mode' (well farmers do), power costumisation if you dont even have any power listed? (TA, /dev, AR, Archery, name it..) Am i? My MM's cant change, my Granite cant, my WP is hardly noticable colored, my SD equaly, my trollers, well... earth/ already is totaly annoying and not 100% sure it was colorable.
People worry about CO, i never did. But yesterday i got a survey in the Aion beta, i know THAT game is worrying. Several i know from EU and US side will be moving to Aion, so am i. NCkorea feared canibalism fromout their own games, LA1/2 remained steady. Western side, with only GW (and delayed GW2) and CoH left, it will hit imho harder.
I said it, will say it again: they serious need to think TWICE before putting GR on the EU side. The're too little players to make it that enjoyable, as they always lacked advertising.. i cant blame those leaving for US or other games. Their priorities are far off, instead of focusing on continueing the game, they trash just stuff out like Blizzard doing, keeping current players happy and scaring new players away (EU side). The minor difference? Roughly 11.8 million players.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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OK, now THIS jumped right out at me.|
Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU
my SD equaly,
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Shield Defence toons have far, FAR more customisations options right now than Invuln etc are ever likely to get in Issue 16.
You have a variety of shield shapes and types. Each of which can be coloured, and in several cases, have a variety of symbols placed on them. So you've got shape, colour and design.
Invuln etc are, so far as I can tell from the ComiCon stuff that was posted, likely to get colour changes. That's it.
And you're feeling hard done by with Shield Defence as it is right now?
Oh, and skipping GR on EU because of 'low populations' ? Pfft. I missed out on a Barracuda SF being run by some friends last night because too many people were online and looking to do it, on the first day of CO Open Beta (which admittedly is/was having "issues" apparently).
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
I had no problem with the size of I15, but I think if they'd called it an "Anniversary Patch" instead of a "Anniversary Issue" they'd have had less nerdrage to deal with 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Not really my fault you only read SD there. Any item ingame was 'changable' (note, not customizable), weapons, guns, capes, you name it. But would a new color change the gay walk of SD or DW? Or the clipping issues with guns, the redraw issues? Not here.|
Originally Posted by Canine
OK, now THIS jumped right out at me.
Shield Defence toons have far, FAR more customisations options right now than Invuln etc are ever likely to get in Issue 16. You have a variety of shield shapes and types. Each of which can be coloured, and in several cases, have a variety of symbols placed on them. So you've got shape, colour and design. Invuln etc are, so far as I can tell from the ComiCon stuff that was posted, likely to get colour changes. That's it. And you're feeling hard done by with Shield Defence as it is right now? Oh, and skipping GR on EU because of 'low populations' ? Pfft. I missed out on a Barracuda SF being run by some friends last night because too many people were online and looking to do it, on the first day of CO Open Beta (which admittedly is/was having "issues" apparently). |
What i'm saying, everyone is soooo excited about I16, werent we all also about AE? Or chimora? Or RWZ? Or whatever thing u might think off? What about it now? Majority say AE is DOOOOM!!! and (EU side) all those new zones are deserted empty places purely for decoration.
I never said skip GR, i said think twice. EU had glorious days, true. But is this, the current state of EU servers worth the hundreds of euro i spent on it? While actualy NC was lacking all along to even think about advertising? (yeah, UK, nice try). Sure, stay in the great illusion while being in a active SG/channel is 'healthy', but i only see people going, RMT's comming and thats it. But oh well, time will tell
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
In retrospect I13, I14, and I15 were all so small because Power Customization was running in the background.
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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And GR too, I think - I'm sure it and PC would be two of the first things they started working on when NCSoft started investing again.
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Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
In retrospect I13, I14, and I15 were all so small because Power Customization was running in the background.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I said the same thing back when it was in beta; I regarded calling it an "Issue" as a marketing blunder. They should have called it something like a "Super Anniversery Event" instead of an Issue.
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Originally Posted by Golden_Girl_EU
I had no problem with the size of I15, but I think if they'd called it an "Anniversary Patch" instead of a "Anniversary Issue" they'd have had less nerdrage to deal with
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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Excuse yourself, sir.| Not really my fault you only read SD there. Any item ingame was 'changable' (note, not customizable), weapons, guns, capes, you name it. But would a new color change the gay walk of SD or DW? Or the clipping issues with guns, the redraw issues? Not here. |
The way that you walk or run in game resembles nothing remotely 'gay'.
Now this is a gay walk. Please try to use the term correctly in the future.
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Issue 15 was always intended to be a relatively 'light' issue. It was mainly there to mark the 5th year anniversary and to finally get us into a new codebranch (I13 and I14 were developed in the same branch). That said, we did put a lot of time and work into I15.|
Originally Posted by AkuTenshiiZero
Another theory:
Maybe I15 was so small because they were too focused on I16, and knew we would forgive and forget once I16 hit us in the face. Diverting resources, and placating us until the Big One was ready to drop. |
I'm not sure why the expectations were so high for it, or what we could have done differently. From my perspective, we were pretty clear that it wasn't going to be as big as I14 or the GR expansion. It did take a bit longer to birth than anticipated, but ultimately that just pushed it closer to I16 rather than coming right on the heels of I14.
For what it's worth, I thought it was--and still is--a great issue. I'd love to see more updates that focus on content instead of or in addition to mechanics.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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Think it was more to the fact that the forums were convinced that issue 15 was going to be the big issue. For the last year [at least], people complaining about light issues were reminded by players that we were told that issue 15 was going to be the next BIG one.|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
Issue 15 was always intended to be a relatively 'light' issue. It was mainly there to mark the 5th year anniversary and to finally get us into a new codebranch (I13 and I14 were developed in the same branch). That said, we did put a lot of time and work into I15.
I'm not sure why the expectations were so high for it, or what we could have done differently. From my perspective, we were pretty clear that it wasn't going to be as big as I14 or the GR expansion. It did take a bit longer to birth than anticipated, but ultimately that just pushed it closer to I16 rather than coming right on the heels of I14. |
Now whether this was just a rumour started by a player that just became far too exaggerated, it was obvious that the majority of players expected it to be so
You lot were BOUND to know the rumours of it going around, that being said though we are all [mostly] looking forward to an awesome issue 16
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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I think, due to the shuffle caused by AE, everyone assumed I15 was 'The Big One', BaB's, not I16.|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
Issue 15 was always intended to be a relatively 'light' issue. It was mainly there to mark the 5th year anniversary and to finally get us into a new codebranch (I13 and I14 were developed in the same branch). That said, we did put a lot of time and work into I15.
I'm not sure why the expectations were so high for it, or what we could have done differently. From my perspective, we were pretty clear that it wasn't going to be as big as I14 or the GR expansion. It did take a bit longer to birth than anticipated, but ultimately that just pushed it closer to I16 rather than coming right on the heels of I14. |
Personally? I was angry as hell because the MM power didn't work on Reichsman =P That SF was great, BUT: It needed to be clearer what the patron powers did, rather than confusing the hell out of people.
Oh, and let-downs for new costumes. Give Jay a slap and lot's of 'love' from the EU, ta much =P
Edit: Gods damn I got ninja'd XD
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Well, you could have added animated hair to the game.|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
I'm not sure why the expectations were so high for it, or what we could have done differently.
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I know you're probably secretly working on that right now, in your super secret animated hair research facility, but even a little animated hair preview in I15 would have made it a great Issue instead of just a good one.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I dunno what people are whining about.
Issues are coming out more frequently than in the past- who cares what size they are? It's 'free' content!
We have a paid expansion that should cover a lot of ground in the pipeline, we're getting power customization for pete's sake....I just don't see much to gripe about on the topic of recent issues.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Because in two years we've had 2 tfs and a very small handfull of dev created content |
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I dunno what people are whining about.
Issues are coming out more frequently than in the past- who cares what size they are? It's 'free' content! We have a paid expansion that should cover a lot of ground in the pipeline, we're getting power customization for pete's sake....I just don't see much to gripe about on the topic of recent issues. |
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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All of this. The devs got to add people and it took them time to get results which is no surprise to anyone familiar with software development. I lack the imagination to guess what I17 and later might be bringing us and am dying for GR.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I dunno what people are whining about.
Issues are coming out more frequently than in the past- who cares what size they are? It's 'free' content! We have a paid expansion that should cover a lot of ground in the pipeline, we're getting power customization for pete's sake....I just don't see much to gripe about on the topic of recent issues. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Two years ago from today we were still in month one of Issue 10 so you are saying all that was in Issues 11-15 was 2 TFs and a small handful of dev created content?|
Originally Posted by EU_Damz
Because in two years we've had 2 tfs and a very small handfull of dev created content
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Your definition of content must be quite constrained.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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NEW content? yes.|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
Two years ago from today we were still in month one of Issue 10 so you are saying all that was in Issues 11-15 was 2 TFs and a small handful of dev created content?
Your definition of content must be quite constrained. |
MA does not = official content. This coming from a player who loves playing the MA to its intended purpose.
3 taskforces, midnighter + cimerora MINI arcs [each can be completed in well under an hour] and the repeatable hollows radio style missions.
Oh and ouroboros was old content [apart from the mini tfs]. Basically issue 11 - 16 has been purely QoL/dev content light issues no matter which way you look at it.
I LOVE the QOL changes, just wish they gave us some new things to try the new changes out on that cant be completed on the first PUG you go on when it goes live
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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IMO, I think it was because of the relatively sparse amount of content since Issue 12. Issue 12 gave us that excellent zone Cimerora, the Midnight Squad arcs, and the Imperious TF. But since then, the amount of content has been, arguably, sparse.|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
Issue 15 was always intended to be a relatively 'light' issue. It was mainly there to mark the 5th year anniversary and to finally get us into a new codebranch (I13 and I14 were developed in the same branch). That said, we did put a lot of time and work into I15.
I'm not sure why the expectations were so high for it, or what we could have done differently. From my perspective, we were pretty clear that it wasn't going to be as big as I14 or the GR expansion. It did take a bit longer to birth than anticipated, but ultimately that just pushed it closer to I16 rather than coming right on the heels of I14. |
Issue 13 gave us some additional arcs, helping to fill out Cimerora and the Midnight Squad, but was mostly QoL improvements. Sure, we got Merits and the much-debated PvP changes, but not a lot of story content.
Issue 14 gave us the MA, which was a mixed bag of wonderful player-made arcs and horrible exploitation of MA vulnerabilities. But besides player-made content, no conical story (except the MA tutorials).
Issue 15 was almost completely the Reichsman TF/ SF, with a smattering of QoL changes. One story from two different sides (arguably), but that's it for story content.
That synopsis isn't to take away from the difficulty and hard work in implementing things like the MA, costume change emotes, PvP revamp, Merits, and other systems and QoL improvements, but an MMO needs story to maintain interest, and people are thirsting for more conical content. And now, with Issue 16, we're getting Power Customization... but no story content, again.
Players get their hopes up because, with few exceptions, we've had quite a dry spell of content for quite a few issues. Between Issue 13 and Issue 16 , we'll have had one TF, one SF, and a handful of story arcs - but nothing like we got with the Midnight Squad, Cimerora, or the RWZ before that.
And it's mostly because most of the story bandwidth is being funneled into GR, which users will need to pay for instead of downloading for free as with the Issue updates.
This isn't a criticism or an endorsement - just an observation.
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I know I was in the crowd expecting I15 to be "larger". But larger than what? I got the impression from going to HeroCon last year. It was my understanding that 13 / 14 were originally going to be one issue. But based on feedback 14 was taken out to "get it right" and made into a seperate issue. We were told then that it would be a "small" issue. And 13 wasn't going to be as big as was originally planned because of what was removed. |
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
Issue 15 was always intended to be a relatively 'light' issue. It was mainly there to mark the 5th year anniversary and to finally get us into a new codebranch (I13 and I14 were developed in the same branch). That said, we did put a lot of time and work into I15.
I'm not sure why the expectations were so high for it, or what we could have done differently. From my perspective, we were pretty clear that it wasn't going to be as big as I14 or the GR expansion. It did take a bit longer to birth than anticipated, but ultimately that just pushed it closer to I16 rather than coming right on the heels of I14. |
That set the expectation that 15 would be "larger" than 13 and 14, and would be a "normal" issue.
I know my expection was for new power sets, and a re-worked, or new zone. I did feel it was a small issue. It didn't seem as big as some issues preceeding 13/14.
So... larger is subjective. And that is my two cents on possibly why some people thought it would be a "large" issue.
What excites me about new issues is *new content. I love the stories in this game. I love exploring a new zone, and fighting new villains. And in some regard we haven't had that since issue 12. Yes I know we got the new TF in 15... It is nice to have the content... Just story wise it didn't feel right. Didn't seem to follow what we already knew about the 5th Column. Having said that it was so very nice to have my favorite villain group back in the game.
So... Costumizable powers are exciting and fun. (and now that the NDA has been lifted... better than CO... much... much better). But I am anxiously waiting for GR. It will be so much fun to explore new places and experience new stories. My favorite part of the game.
*Edit: New content I know can mean a lot of things. I am refering to new stories, new enemy groups, zones, missions. I do recognize that all of us have different things we like about the game and am not suggesting this applies to all. It is how I feel. And... lastly... I love AE. It is an amazing tool. I am not suggesting that I feel slighted or like I haven't gotten my "money's" worth. Quite the contrary. Love this game, and while I don't post a lot... I do plan to be the last person out the door when the lights get turned off (player that is). Point was just where I (and maybe others) got the impression that Issue 15 was going to be a "large" issue; certainly not a complaint.
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Pretty much this. But don't get us wrong BaB, you guys do GREAT work! If I didn't look forward to what you guys come up with each issue, I still wouldn't be subbed.|
Originally Posted by Obsidius
IMO, I think it was because of the relatively sparse amount of content since Issue 12. Issue 12 gave us that excellent zone Cimerora, the Midnight Squad arcs, and the Imperious TF. But since then, the amount of content has been, arguably, sparse.
Issue 13 gave us some additional arcs, helping to fill out Cimerora and the Midnight Squad, but was mostly QoL improvements. Sure, we got Merits and the much-debated PvP changes, but not a lot of story content. Issue 14 gave us the MA, which was a mixed bag of wonderful player-made arcs and horrible exploitation of MA vulnerabilities. But besides player-made content, no conical story (except the MA tutorials). Issue 15 was almost completely the Reichsman TF/ SF, with a smattering of QoL changes. One story from two different sides (arguably), but that's it for story content. That synopsis isn't to take away from the difficulty and hard work in implementing things like the MA, costume change emotes, PvP revamp, Merits, and other systems and QoL improvements, but an MMO needs story to maintain interest, and people are thirsting for more conical content. And now, with Issue 16, we're getting Power Customization... but no story content, again. Players get their hopes up because, with few exceptions, we've had quite a dry spell of content for quite a few issues. Between Issue 13 and Issue 16 , we'll have had one TF, one SF, and a handful of story arcs - but nothing like we got with the Midnight Squad, Cimerora, or the RWZ before that. And it's mostly because most of the story bandwidth is being funneled into GR, which users will need to pay for instead of downloading for free as with the Issue updates. This isn't a criticism or an endorsement - just an observation. |
You guys are the most creative dev team in the industry I've seen.
Which is why folks are excited when story content comes out. It sounds like (especially from the hints about Ms. Liberty and Praetoria in the Canon thread) the overall story of COV/COH is defeinetly moving forward in GR.
So that's something to look forward to.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Oops... I was logged into my 2nd account for various reasons... and didn't realize I needed to sign into the account I use to post on these forums. So in fairness: The above is also me. Don't post a lot is still larger than 2. (now to go find that other post... don't remember that either).
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Originally Posted by The_Bum
I know I was in the crowd expecting I15 to be "larger". But larger than what? I got the impression from going to HeroCon last year. It was my understanding that 13 / 14 were originally going to be one issue. But based on feedback 14 was taken out to "get it right" and made into a seperate issue. We were told then that it would be a "small" issue. And 13 wasn't going to be as big as was originally planned because of what was removed.
That set the expectation that 15 would be "larger" than 13 and 14, and would be a "normal" issue. I know my expection was for new power sets, and a re-worked, or new zone. I did feel it was a small issue. It didn't seem as big as some issues preceeding 13/14. So... larger is subjective. And that is my two cents on possibly why some people thought it would be a "large" issue. What excites me about new issues is *new content. I love the stories in this game. I love exploring a new zone, and fighting new villains. And in some regard we haven't had that since issue 12. Yes I know we got the new TF in 15... It is nice to have the content... Just story wise it didn't feel right. Didn't seem to follow what we already knew about the 5th Column. Having said that it was so very nice to have my favorite villain group back in the game. So... Costumizable powers are exciting and fun. (and now that the NDA has been lifted... better than CO... much... much better). But I am anxiously waiting for GR. It will be so much fun to explore new places and experience new stories. My favorite part of the game. *Edit: New content I know can mean a lot of things. I am refering to new stories, new enemy groups, zones, missions. I do recognize that all of us have different things we like about the game and am not suggesting this applies to all. It is how I feel. And... lastly... I love AE. It is an amazing tool. I am not suggesting that I feel slighted or like I haven't gotten my "money's" worth. Quite the contrary. Love this game, and while I don't post a lot... I do plan to be the last person out the door when the lights get turned off (player that is). Point was just where I (and maybe others) got the impression that Issue 15 was going to be a "large" issue; certainly not a complaint. |
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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MA is content. |
Originally Posted by EU_Damz
NEW content? yes.
MA does not = official content. This coming from a player who loves playing the MA to its intended purpose. |
A gigantic, foaming ocean of content, somewhat intimidating in its breadth and depth.
No, the devs didn't personally create the missions, but they did create the tools and turn players loose on them. Ignoring that reality is to use a worthlessly restricted definition of "content".
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
You know I've always wondered why issue 15 was such a let down for (and perhaps many others). As issues goes, it really didn't bring a lot besides two TFs, some costume pieces and a dominator revamp. It was also one of the smallest updates I can ever remember.
Issue 16 on the other hand is amazing. I'm not in the beta, but from an outsider's looking in perspective, some of the features that have been announced are some of the most anticipated features...maybe of all time.
Power customization, power proliferation, increased difficulty settings, super sidekicking along with stuff like blaze mastery for scrappers and MM pets following you into missions makes this issue overshadow almost every other issue that has preceded. Even one of aforementioned things would make this coming an issue a great feature...having all of them is sorta...well, ridiculous (in a very good way).
So, why now? Why does the issue on steroids arrive now? Well, the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that this issue and the upcoming Going Rogue is the one-two punch that counters the threat of that other superhero MMO just around the corner. Instead of having evenly balanced issue 15 and issue 16, Paragon Studios decided to gimp one to make the other one completely awesome. If so, it's a savvy move.
More realistically, it's probably just the result of having all the new hires at Paragon Studio finally being able to make their mark and extend what we can expect from an issue. The investment in funding and staff is probably maturing, but at a suspiciously fortuitous time.
Whichever theory you believe, I think I can finally make sense of why the two issues are so lopsided. I'm hoping that with issue 16, the bar for issue content will reach a new plateau.