Dual builds - switching on the fly
By
5th_Player,
Posted on: 2009-08-16 15:23 in The Global Training Room Test Server
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I think this would be great, much easier that going to a trainer. And yes I then could deal with the time constraints then.
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Originally Posted by Icebeam_NA
Okay point taken, how about a 5min timer, or heck I just want to be able to do it without having to see an NPC. I'll accept the timer whatever it is lol. I just want to be able to flip it in missions.
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Originally Posted by Icebeam_NA
Instead of having to visit a trainer I should be able to switch on the fly for character purposes...please either shorten or remove the timer. For example I have a robot toon with a battle costume (offensive power build) and a defensive costume, I would love to be able to switch between builds on the fly as the situation demands it.
What do you think?  |
WOrld of Warcraft allows this, bu tyou have to carry around two sets of armor, and if you are mana user, it takes away all of your mana.
What they could do is make it drain all endurance when you switch.
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Fallout Fae 50 Rad/Rad Defender
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Reparative 50 EM/EA Stalker
Poseur 50 Mind/Psi Dom
I don't think it would be game-breaking, but it would be problematic enough that it's not likely to happen, except maybe if they change the mechanics on how dual builds work.
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Right because the game is really that hard to the point where you need the crutch of Demonic and FoN to get by SF's TF's. You don't need either, just some veats and a brute/tank and some debuffs yo.|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
i agree. Being able to effectively double the duration/output of accolades and tier 9's every 10-15 minutes would be incredibly exploitable. The final battle of many SF's/TF's comes to mind, just for a start.
i like biff, he reliably makes good bad examples.  |
It's either that or they could flex their leet programming skills and 'save' the cool down of each build.
Then again they still can't make the background info text editor work properly, who am I kidding?
all they need to do is code in a power based "buff-wipe & toggle-drop" on the switch, and keep the recharge timers constant ... it's completely do'able and wouldn't be exploitable, and with that they could even reduce the timer to the same as the costume timer, which i belive is what the OP was wanting in the first place...
now i say it's do'able, but would still require alot of codeing work to implement, so it's not likely to come to be any time soon, as the dev's have alot that they are still working on, and the system as it is works perfectly fine, though the 15 minit's seem's a'bit excessive esspecially since it requires talking to a trainer, could lower it to 1-5 minit's and still not have much of any problems with it as it is
but there has been talk of possibly raiseing the # of alternate build choices probablly to a total of three choices instead of two
Nearly 5 years with only a single build, then a miracle happens and we get dual builds! Now people are complaining that 15 mins is too long, and having to goto a trainer is too inconvenient?
I for one am just thrilled to have two builds I can choose from on the same toon. The number of times I had wanted to switch between the builds faster than the 15 min delay was maybe..3 or 4 out of the hundreds of times I have changed.
A 15 min wait is a tiny price to pay for not having to level 2 AT's with same powersets but with different builds for use in different team makeups.
The only item related to dual builds that I want the timer removed from is the build naming. Right now, if I want to name both builds (having set them up before they could BE renamed,) I have to name one, switch the build, wait 15 minutes, then name the other (and probably switch back.) That has nothing to do with powers (other than labeling which set is which.)
Whether it's DOABLE or not, I don't know. But it's the only nitpick I have with the current setup.
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I agree with this. There's no reason that you need to wait to change a name. However, if it's not possible under the current system, I will not worry about it.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
The only item related to dual builds that I want the timer removed from is the build naming.
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ATs to 50 - TA/A Def, Nrg/Nrg Blaster, EM/EA Brute, WS,ELM/ELA Stalker
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I would definitely use it to double the duration of Demonic when I fight Rommy, the Honoree, and the final battle in the LRSF, among other things.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
i agree. Being able to effectively double the duration/output of accolades and tier 9's every 10-15 minutes would be incredibly exploitable. The final battle of many SF's/TF's comes to mind, just for a start.
i like biff, he reliably makes good bad examples. |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Why is it that WoW always incorporates these 'stolen' ideas better?|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
Oh, it does? I stand corrected. I must have been mistaken...Sorry 'bout that.
Too bad not everyone can be as polite as you when correcting someone....lol! That being said, I gotta go test that out right now! "The One" |
Coh HAD to put dual builds in.... because WoW announced it.
They HAD to put coloring powers in.... because of the release of Champions.
They HAVE to COMPETE....
Get off your pedestals of "This IS the way" and look at reality. It's called a consumer driven economy...
How about this....
1. Changing builds requires a 10 second cast-time.
2. Changing builds has NO COOLDOWN....
3. Changing builds activates all powers on cooldown longer than 30 seconds WITHOUT effect.
There...
You can swap builds at any time, it takes a cast-time with rooting.... and you can't spam long cooldowns... (including hasten).
ZOMG.... It's not that DAMN HARD.....
It's just as soon as the Devs get some idea stuck in their head, they rarely listen to anyone without a community resume.
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Wrong!|
Originally Posted by 5th_Player
Why is it that WoW always incorporates these 'stolen' ideas better?
Coh HAD to put dual builds in.... because WoW announced it. They HAD to put coloring powers in.... because of the release of Champions. They HAVE to COMPETE.... Get off your pedestals of "This IS the way" and look at reality. It's called a consumer driven economy... How about this.... 1. Changing builds requires a 10 second cast-time. 2. Changing builds has NO COOLDOWN.... 3. Changing builds activates all powers on cooldown longer than 30 seconds WITHOUT effect. There... You can swap builds at any time, it takes a cast-time with rooting.... and you can't spam long cooldowns... (including hasten). ZOMG.... It's not that DAMN HARD..... It's just as soon as the Devs get some idea stuck in their head, they rarely listen to anyone without a community resume. |
CoH had the color changing idea quite awhile ago, just now they finally finished up the code to implement it. It wasn't CO that prompted it.
10-1 dual builds was already a idea on the dev-plate before WoW even got around to it.
(BTW I played WoW before coming back here... in the last 6 months. I don't EVER remember the ability to make a second build.)
Just because the guys who make CoX have odd timing doesn't mean that they didn't already have the ball rolling before others.
and honestly I belive that you should still have to go to the trainer however I do belive that the time it requires between build switches should be lowered to either 5 minutes or 10 minutes at the very least, had it happen where I'm working on one build testing it out for solo play only and My SG starts a team and I have to tell them they have to wait a quarter of a hour just for me to be useful... yeah...
the trainer is inconvenient, the timer is not. Like I said I want to be able to use this in a RP way I guess...so that my robot toon can switch to a defensive mode and assault mode. I'm don't want a new exploit, there are enough of those as it is lmao.
Taking form the ideas I've seen here and my own personal use of build changing, here would be my colaberative suggestions. 1) Make switching on the fly a high level vet reward (72mnths?) without changing either time requirment or timer reset. In fact, I'm not at all in favor of removing the timer reset. I find it quite handy for the the hardlined 1 and 2 hour booster pack powers. 2) Barring, or even in conjunction with, suggestion one; rather than reducing/eliminating the time requirement, how about doubling it. This would remove the need to see the trainer but, retain the stratigic, as opposed to tactical, use of the switch. Half an hour is also the cooldown time of the vet team teleport. Setting the time interval to this would even eliminate that "tactical" use of build switching whilst still making the switch useful for cutting down the cooldowns for self destruction and mission transporter.
Being able to switch on the fly under these conditions would mean that if one was in a zone without a trainer (e.g. Perez Park) and the next mission, for whatever reason, was in Fire Base Zulu, and it had been about half an hour from the last use of mission transporter, one could switch build and teleport to the mission without having to zone to one of near by trainers.
Of course, all and all, I'm not unhappy enough with the way it currently is to press the issue myself.
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Wrong! This game would probably never see power colors for another mmmmm nine months if it wasn't for CO coming out with it first, try again!|
Originally Posted by GibberingLunatic
Wrong!
CoH had the color changing idea quite awhile ago, just now they finally finished up the code to implement it. It wasn't CO that prompted it. 10-1 dual builds was already a idea on the dev-plate before WoW even got around to it. (BTW I played WoW before coming back here... in the last 6 months. I don't EVER remember the ability to make a second build.) Just because the guys who make CoX have odd timing doesn't mean that they didn't already have the ball rolling before others. and honestly I belive that you should still have to go to the trainer however I do belive that the time it requires between build switches should be lowered to either 5 minutes or 10 minutes at the very least, had it happen where I'm working on one build testing it out for solo play only and My SG starts a team and I have to tell them they have to wait a quarter of a hour just for me to be useful... yeah... |
At the time CoX came up with the idea of power customization, Cryptic was still around so it was Cryptic who threw around the idea and they were the first to put out a game with power customization, not CoX.
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Ok... you obviously don't listen, so let me repeat this in a different way.|
Originally Posted by GibberingLunatic
Wrong!
CoH had the color changing idea quite awhile ago, just now they finally finished up the code to implement it. It wasn't CO that prompted it. 10-1 dual builds was already a idea on the dev-plate before WoW even got around to it. (BTW I played WoW before coming back here... in the last 6 months. I don't EVER remember the ability to make a second build.) Just because the guys who make CoX have odd timing doesn't mean that they didn't already have the ball rolling before others. and honestly I belive that you should still have to go to the trainer however I do belive that the time it requires between build switches should be lowered to either 5 minutes or 10 minutes at the very least, had it happen where I'm working on one build testing it out for solo play only and My SG starts a team and I have to tell them they have to wait a quarter of a hour just for me to be useful... yeah... |
Idea != Reality
Idea != Money
They were putting off coloring powers and even though WE had discussed (it was a player driven suggestion) the option which drove the idea along (because it's obvious the idea was on their plate at some point before we even mentioned), it was inevitably the release of other games that drove the actual project.
Given, it may have happened eventually..... soon (TM).
Also, dual builds was definitely a WoW idea first.... or at least it was on the drawing board on WoW first. I play both games.... been playing both games.
Finally,
I thought my suggestion firm enough to avoid all forms of exploitation.
1. Can't be a viable option in PvP...
2. Can't be done in-action on-demand. Has to be done out of combat.
3. Can't be done to reset power recharges (which is BETTER SOLUTION THAN IT IS NOW!!!!).
Also, comes with bonuses for player
1. Avoids waiting for switch when switching between solo and team builds.
2. Avoids unnecessary travel.
3. Allows renaming sets without huge wait penalty.
I THINK THIS IS A DAMN FAIR ENOUGH compromise.
And if they keep toting exploitation concerns, then they have no reason to not implement it this way, because it actually eliminates current minor exploitation, without introducing other exploits.
Which is why I said, people saying to return to a trainer are stuck in CoX mindset... and have played multiple MMOs, I absolutely hate this sticky mindset from any game I play.
We must do it this way because we always do it this way.....???? LAME....
And by a 10 sec activation time.... I mean similar to the self-detonate activation time. You're lock-down, you can't move, and it even ignores input (meaning you can't cancel the activation by moving like with snipe powers).
This way it's a MAJOR drawback to perform this in-combat or in-PVP.
Hell, make you weaker too like using "Rest" does.... Make you a three hit kill and turn off all toggles... I don't care how extreme the cast-time penalty is..... just allow it to be done on the fly....
Also, remember, I'm actually for activating long recharge powers without effect. In essence you have to wait for the powers to recharge after changing builds.
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Originally Posted by Icebeam_NA
the trainer is inconvenient, the timer is not. Like I said I want to be able to use this in a RP way I guess...so that my robot toon can switch to a defensive mode and assault mode. I'm don't want a new exploit, there are enough of those as it is lmao.
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You keep saying you don't want an exploit in the same post that you ask for an exploit. Being able to redily switch between a priamarily offensive and primarily defensive build would be an exploit in and of itself.
If they were going to change the timer and/or 'go to trainer' requirements, they should implement the rules of where it could be done. i.e. Can't switch inside of a mission or in a PvP zone.
The only way I would be ok with build switching without visiting an NPC would be:
- Set Player Health 1
- Set Player Max Regeneration 0, duration 60 seconds.
- Set Player Max Endurance 0, duration 60 seconds.
- Set all powers state to Initial Recharge.
- Wipe all Buffs/Debuff on character.
In other words, we do NOT want players to be able to situationally change power selections.
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Originally Posted by Castle
The only way I would be ok with build switching without visiting an NPC would be:
In other words, we do NOT want players to be able to situationally change power selections. |
I hear you, and these points work for me no problem. They even plug into a cool RP aspect, i.e., changing shape and powers weakens you for a limited time. Would make for a great "Duck down the alley" switcharoo.
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Kind of like them trying to get Granite into power customization |
Originally Posted by CyberDragon
All in all this isn't so much of a bad idea just more of one that would end up being more problematic than others.
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Thus endeth the lesson. Well put Castle! |
Originally Posted by Castle
The only way I would be ok with build switching without visiting an NPC would be:
In other words, we do NOT want players to be able to situationally change power selections. |
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i actually agree with this sentiment... although i dont use dual builds much this actually got me thinking of the RP aspects of dual builds.... hmmm.... ideas begin to spring forth
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Originally Posted by Esoteric_Monk
I hear you, and these points work for me no problem. They even plug into a cool RP aspect, i.e., changing shape and powers weakens you for a limited time. Would make for a great "Duck down the alley" switcharoo.
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Initial Recharge... would that be All Recharged, like now, or be all powers set to be recharging as if you had just used every single one?
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Originally Posted by Castle
The only way I would be ok with build switching without visiting an NPC would be:
In other words, we do NOT want players to be able to situationally change power selections. |
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Will you guys be willing to lower the damn timer then? 15 minutes is kind of long for this kind of thing. Nothing I hate worse than being stuck on a solo build for a support AT and then a team sends an invite for a TF. When the team sees you they are expecting a certain build but when they see no ally powers they are more likely to not keep you on the team.
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Originally Posted by Castle
The only way I would be ok with build switching without visiting an NPC would be:
In other words, we do NOT want players to be able to situationally change power selections. |
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Like others have said I'm fine with the timer it is the need for the trainer that is annoying. It feels real super heroic to go run and ask my mom...I mean a trainer...if I can go change my costume.