I16: Super-Sidekicking Explained


a tame rabbit

 

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Originally Posted by Wavicle View Post
What in CoH is taken from Champions?
Just about everything, just the names of certain groups/people were change to, ya know, avoid being sued or something I dunno.


 

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Originally Posted by Mr_DJ View Post
you forgot to add "kthnxbai"
*shrug* i went with the more formal "Thank you, you can go now." Close enough for government work. Moving on.... (Wink: stroke or aneurysm?)


So far the features as announced will be significant QoL improvements for my CoX gameplay.
Pets zoning with owners will be a nice addition as well.
Energize for Electric Armor: also good.
Earth Assault: great for my upcoming Fire/Earth Dom, Magma Chamber.

So far everything announced for i16 that i've seen has been about expanded or upgraded mechanics and features. i'm hoping for some more storyline progression/content as well. *crosses fingers*


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

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Originally Posted by biff10426 View Post
Just about everything, just the names of certain groups/people were change to, ya know, avoid being sued or something I dunno.
QFT as Jack had power customization already thought out. I'm guessing alot of players on these boards don't actually do any research, but just to inform those who don't, Jack Emmert pretty much made CoH the customization giant that it has become, everything from travel powers to power look was his general niche. As he stated in Gen con, he wanted "EVERYTHING" customizable.


But hey don't just take my word for it, youtube or google can help those that wish to know.

Expect CoH to steal any feature CO has, and why not? two perfect MMO's? I like this day and age. Beats Age of Conan and WoW.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."

 

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Originally Posted by biff10426 View Post
Just about everything, just the names of certain groups/people were change to, ya know, avoid being sued or something I dunno.
Ummm, have you played Champions (the pnp version)? For most of its history the pnp game had no especially original characters. (Foxbat aside.) Almost all of the sample characters and settings provided were basically recolored versions of iconic Marvel or DC characters/organizations/settings. (Mechanon, especially the earlier versions, was such a direct clone of Marvel's Ultron it was amusing.)

Now Hero Games did eventually create a fairly distinct cast of characters and organizations, but the City of X characters and groups resemble the Champions settings and characters less than most other superhero settings.

Of course this is based on my owning most of the Champions material from the first box set to a variety of post Hero System Fifth Edition supplements. (Including the Fifth Edition release of the Champions setting.) You may have material for Champions that was never published outside of the Hero Games studios, but otherwise i don't see where you got that.

*Dr. Wrong and his Wrongbots rant goes here*


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

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Originally Posted by Schismatrix View Post
Ummm, have you played Champions (the pnp version)? For most of its history the pnp game had no especially original characters. (Foxbat aside.) Almost all of the sample characters and settings provided were basically recolored versions of iconic Marvel or DC characters/organizations/settings. (Mechanon, especially the earlier versions, was such a direct clone of Marvel's Ultron it was amusing.)

Now Hero Games did eventually create a fairly distinct cast of characters and organizations, but the City of X characters and groups resemble the Champions settings and characters less than most other superhero settings.

Of course this is based on my owning most of the Champions material from the first box set to a variety of post Hero System Fifth Edition supplements. (Including the Fifth Edition release of the Champions setting.) You may have material for Champions that was never published outside of the Hero Games studios, but otherwise i don't see where you got that.

*Dr. Wrong and his Wrongbots rant goes here*

Well the main thing to understand is that most if not all of the customization options where Jack's ideas. He was the prominent figure in CoH when it came to wanting to look different. As he has said countless times, he wanted a world where everyone was as diversed as the powers themselves.

What Jack did is make CO more Customizable obviously. Of course, things like power color changing and different travel powers where his ideas to begin with. I also find it funny that the sidekick system coming to i16 is pretty much the same as it is in CO. Strickingly coincedental timing aside....I do hope both just get better than that other MMO's out.

And no I didn't play the PNP Heroes game, I was too busy having sex. But I'm sure I would have loved it.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."

 

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Originally Posted by CoyoteShaman View Post
Kat, that's not even relevant to some of us (me in particular). I haven't gotten a single email that I wanted, or sent one, in years. I'm sure others are in the same situation. Turning it off completely is all we wanted.

That being said, I agree with a lot of people that there should be more options for who to allow. Not for my sake 'cuz I'll just be leaving it off, but for the sake of many players. Some will want global friends, some will want SG, some will want server friends, some might want some combination thereof. Since the email system is global, it seems silly to not have the limitation selection be global as well. At least to me it does.

Robin.

PS: please don't take this as me saying your comment was a waste of time. I'm only saying that it's not actually a detail at all to some people. I was just pointing that out because it seems to have escaped some people.
I'm glad you at least got what I was happy about. In 42 months I've received 3 useful in-game emails. I can do with out the clunky email system completely.


 

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Originally Posted by Lacrymosa View Post
And no I didn't play the PNP Heroes game, I was too busy having sex. But I'm sure I would have loved it.
So wait, if you never played that game, then how can you be sure CoX ripped it off?

If you're gonna troll, be consistent!


-STEELE =)


Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
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Originally Posted by EmperorSteele View Post
So wait, if you never played that game, then how can you be sure CoX ripped it off?

If you're gonna troll, be consistent!
Read my post next time. I have played the beta of Champions Online (the mmo in said topic). I'm comparing the similarities in both MMO's, which of course are obvious. I'm not comparing a PNP with an MMO, how did you misunderstand that?

If you're going to attack me , please use fact and read my posts next time. Screaming troll everytime doesn't make it true, I could call you an idiot but I wouldn't be correct as I don't have enough evidence.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."

 

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Originally Posted by Avvatar View Post
Doing a farm? mish holder is 50 and sets difficulty for 8 man team and nabs his friend to join. The lv 30 selects -4 and gets good xp, can select -1 if he wants to help.
Ain't gonna happen. An intended side-effect of the SSK system is deploying an orbital nuke array for PL bridges.


 

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Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
Could the level restrictions on certain zones be removed? Nothing sucks more than getting that mission in Crey's Folly and having to either do something else or tell your level 26 sk he has to wait or go do something else.
Your wish has been retroactively granted.


 

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Originally Posted by Snow View Post

And yes remove the AE building from the warzone it seems out of place with the ongoing battle in there to have an entertainment facility in the middle of a warzone !
I have been in several warzones, they all had some form of "Entertainment facility" so I do not think it out of place at all.


 

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Originally Posted by biff10426 View Post
But made into reality because CO has it. Whatever CO gets, CoX will sure to get shortly after!
nice back peddling, history has shown since Jack left we've been getting things we've been asking for, and with BABs little secret password posts, people knew it was only a matter of time.

it's easy to say we took from CO...after all, it's not like they didn't build the game from the ground up to include it, to whereas our Devs have to do extra work to make it functional.


 

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I'd just like to say that I called this one back in June.

That is all.


And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines

 

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I'm stoked!!!

Lots of great additions to the game. I can tell already that I'm going to max out my character slots.


 

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Originally Posted by Mr_DJ View Post
nice back peddling, history has shown since Jack left we've been getting things we've been asking for, and with BABs little secret password posts, people knew it was only a matter of time.

it's easy to say we took from CO...after all, it's not like they didn't build the game from the ground up to include it, to whereas our Devs have to do extra work to make it functional.

We would still be getting things if Jack was here regardless. It was his original idea to have EVERYTHING customizable. A little google or youtubeing should help you. Even since CoH released Jack wanted even powers to be changeable. Look up some of his interviews, he states this more than once.

The point remains everything we're getting now was planned years before. It's only now that CO is coming out, that the horn of competition sounded. And now every little nook that CO comes out with, conveniently and coincedentally, happens to be made into an issue add-on in CoH.

In the end why complain?, two hero MMO's with uber customization, how can you go wrong?.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."

 

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Originally Posted by Lacrymosa View Post
Well the main thing to understand is that most if not all of the customization options where Jack's ideas. He was the prominent figure in CoH when it came to wanting to look different. As he has said countless times, he wanted a world where everyone was as diversed as the powers themselves.

What Jack did is make CO more Customizable obviously. Of course, things like power color changing and different travel powers where his ideas to begin with. I also find it funny that the sidekick system coming to i16 is pretty much the same as it is in CO. Strickingly coincedental timing aside....I do hope both just get better than that other MMO's out.

And no I didn't play the PNP Heroes game, I was too busy having sex. But I'm sure I would have loved it.
Well, some of us... Actually managed to do BOTH of these things!
(Which apparently, is a somehow inconceivable, "Herculean Accomplishment" in your... mind/eyes/opinion?)

And FWIW, the PnP "Champs" game was "customizable" far beyond anything Jack (or anyone) would be able to pull-off in a computer game at this point - in the future... Sure, now not a chance!

You could use your character points to buy, for example: an "Energy Blast" or "RKA" (=ranged killing attack), then optionally apply 'advantages' or 'disadvantages' to it (=things that modified the game mechanic of the power & the point cost) Armor Piercing, Autofire, or limited Charges, only (or not) Usable in "___" Environment, etc.

Then you define the SFX of that power: flaming arrows, 'magic force' blasts, any sort of gun/ranged weapon, stale donuts & boiling coffee... = Whatever you can think of - as long as its only the Special Effects/SFX of the power - NOT the Mechanics of the power (that would require another advantage or disadvantage). Like, 'Bouncing' to reflect the shots off surfaces (To shoot foes behind some sort of cover, or around corners... or maybe not if you took "Line of Site" as a disadv.

One of the adv.'s was Variable Special Effects (maybe for an 'Archer' that can produce a variety of arrows or change the appearance of their arrows - like the Color of the archers arrows . Or arrows made of fire, ice, acid, etc.
But, "fire arrows" wouldn't set fire to anything, "ice arrows" wouldn't freeze anything, "acid arrows" wouldn't burn anything... Unless you bought them that way points - maybe via a "Linked" or triggered power.
That would, or could - work much like a "DOT" power...

It could be very simple or very complex (often depending on the GM) and being good with (mostly basic) math helped players quite a bit - although you could always get help "Building a Character" from someone else - often the GM or another player between sessions.
And of course you had to explain your powers, = "run them by the GM" to get his approval some powers could "break" certain storylines/campaigns if you weren't careful - but that's true to some extent in most any game.

Sadly, I doubt we'll see that much freedom (or level of "Customization") in any MMO or computer game, anytime in the near future. I can't forsee a game engine that could handle the truly massive number of possible Game Mechanics and the possible interactions.
Or have the ability for the graphics/SFX to match the imaginations of the Players in a PnP game.

Back to the point, no MMORPG's "Customization" of powers is even remotely close to "New" - and they sure as heck... weren't/aren't all Jack's ideas!

The PnP/tabletop - "Champions - aka HERO System", followed by GURPS, and other games... Have all been WAY more customizable than any computer game published to date. MANY, many - "City of" players have wished the game was more customizable in a manner closer to 4th or 5th Ed. Champions, or GURPS Supers, or a handful of other SuperHero PnP RPG's.
And, when CO was announced - as having the (unbelievably bland) Champs IP - and not the HERO System - with it's point based character building/rules/mechanics/etc:
'There was a great disturbance in the Net, as if the hopes of millions (Ok, 10's of thousands) cried out and were suddenly squashed.' *sigh*


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
"The U.S. is in no more danger of coming under Sharia law than it is the rules of Fight Club." - Will McAvoy.

 

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Originally Posted by Acroyear2 View Post
Everything about Positron's post sounds awesome... except for the last paragraph about boosting the XP gains by 20% for Levels 1-20. Seriously, it's easy enough to do the first 20 Levels through normal game play, do you really need to add this boost? Heck, with Patrol XP and all the past changes to the Leveling scale for the higher Levels, it just means we'll be Leveling our heroes/villains so fast we'll hit Security/Threat Level 50 in a matter of days. Then what? Make a few Alts, super speed Level them to 50 too? Then what? Leave the game because you've leved a dozen characters to Level 50 in just three months time and there is nothing left to do?

You would think that the Devs would not want to make Leveling too easy so that the players continue to play the game month after month. This game is a business after all, and it's main source of income is the monthly subscriptions of the players. How is making it so easy to Level through the game a breakneck speeds a good business decision?

Other than that, I all for the new changes coming with Issue 16!
This... This is the truth! Why speed up levelling again?

So that people can again tell me how impossible slow I was levelling my main in 12-15 months back when debt was meaningfull and patrol xp was not there.. and the level curve was old-fashioned. It is almost an insult how easy levelling is. Even on the normal way.

Without power levelling and doing TF's and normal missions I made 3 lvl 50's in 4 months. And I am an altoholic. Versus my main that took 12-15 months. I can have a max of 36 lvl 50's on a server. So you can actually calculate how long before I need to delete a toon if I want to build a new one up.

Seriously... level speed increase is not needed!


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Posted

This looks pretty awesome. I can now team with my friends' and brother's alts with whatever toon I choose. Getting my friends hooked on this game just got that much easier =]

What's even BETTER, it cuts down on AE and normal farming. Hell, it cuts down on the appeal of AE teaming in general. One thing that makes AE farming so attractive is the ability to not worry about your level. Now that this applies to the entire game, maybe we can all move back into normal content? Now it's just time to deal with those pesky boss farms!

*Edit* I just read Posi's last bit about increasing low-leveling speeds. Okay... I don't quite agree with that. But at the same time, I do... Low levels are a time when a player should be learning the game, not speeding into their 20s. May I remind you that level 20 is usually the mark when a player starts discovering the vulnerabilities and strengths of their toon. HP and damage values start to reflect their archetypes and whatnot. Speeding characters up to this mark is... debatable. Leveling up too quickly will cause new players to quickly gain what took vets months. Hardly fair. Also it will cause the game's appeal to wear off faster. So many level 50s and most players think the game is over for them.


 

Posted

So, please someone correct me if I am wrong, if I get a lvl 50 killing lvl 50 foes in an AE mish while I have a lowbie auto sidekicked to 45, lowbie gets max XP, now such lowbie will be auto sidekicked to lvl 49... won't he be getting same XP if the 50 fights lvl 54 foes? If so, is this really such a big advance? as far as I know, bridging was pretty much dead since AE so not sure it's such a great feature getting rid of something pretty much nobody used already.

Obviously, killing speed will not be same for even lvl foes than for +4, but I guess rightly customized foes for a specific AT with specific powersets will minimize the impact of that speed loss in the hands of an experienced player (which farmers usually are) plus in some servers like Freedom where 99% of farms are lvl 54 bosses this won't make much difference I guess, an all Lieutenant or an all Boss mish will still give more XP than any radio/paper mish, plus you control the map and tickets give better rewards (in my own experience at least).


Anyway, it's a try and really hope it makes teaming easier.


 

Posted

It is a change Nightmare. It is a common misconception that the level of the mobs determine if you get xp or not. While true if they are too low it does not matter if they are too high providing you are within 5 levels of the highest member of the team.

So a level 45 (or a person sidekicked to a 46) would get xp if on a team with a level 50. It does not matter if that level 50 is killing level 50 or 54 mobs. You get xp either way. Now though with this system you cant be that much lower. It auto sks you to the 50 so instead of get xp for +9 mobs your getting xp for +5 mobs.

Hope that helps.

Bridging wasnt dead, with ae. You just didnt need a player anymore to do it. There were ways to construct a mission so that the minimum level was level 45 and the max 50. So anyone below 45 was auto skd to 45 and level 50s could be on the mission fighing level 54s.

In a sense AE became the perfect farming tool. You didnt need any mentor's and you could "bridge" up to 7 people if you could manage the mobs. Which, allthough not bosses Fire Kins (as well as some other buuilds thats just one of the best) can easily do. More often than not though you would get 3 or 4 farmers with the rest being xp mooches and that way you could do a level 54 map and pl the lowbies at a retardedly fast rate.


*readies fire extinguisher*

 

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Originally Posted by Positron View Post
Yes, we are even changing the way exemplaring works so that you get XP while you are fighting at a lower level. There will be an option of having the “old way” of exemplaring, and earning extra Inf. instead, for those players who want to earn some more Inf. instead of levels.

(These changes are currently being tested in the Closed Beta for Issue 16, and may be changed/modified by the time they reach the Live servers)
Is this also going to be true if you are running Flashback missions via Ouroboros? If so, you get a super huge major thumbs up on this. I have always liked the concept of Ouroboros, and always thought it was an unappreciated aspect of the game. Would love to see something like this breathe some life into it.


- Garielle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme View Post
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".

 

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Originally Posted by biff10426 View Post
But made into reality because CO has it. Whatever CO gets, CoX will sure to get shortly after!

Hope for CO to get pet customization, for ye shall be blessed with it shortly after.

Oh and more red bars please! I like red better than green.
I think pet customisation will be in COH long before it's in CO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacrymosa View Post
We would still be getting things if Jack was here regardless. It was his original idea to have EVERYTHING customizable. A little google or youtubeing should help you. Even since CoH released Jack wanted even powers to be changeable. Look up some of his interviews, he states this more than once.

The point remains everything we're getting now was planned years before. It's only now that CO is coming out, that the horn of competition sounded. And now every little nook that CO comes out with, conveniently and coincedentally, happens to be made into an issue add-on in CoH.

In the end why complain?, two hero MMO's with uber customization, how can you go wrong?.
Remember that there was a point before NC bought CoH that Cryptic wouldn't allow certain features in the game.

Don't you think it's suspicious that the devs work on issues well in advance but didn't have much to release just after the game was bought by NC but now, months and years later we have lots of new features coming in?

Pure speculation on my behalf but, I think the part of Cryptic that was working on what is now CO didn't want to put any new, interesting features in CoH because they were building a competing product. I'm betting that they planned to sell CoH off when they started making pre-CO and didn't want to put anything in it that would tempt people to play CoH instead of their new game.

NC are the ones who hired new staff members to work on CoH, not Cryptic. If Jack was still here and this was the only game he wanted to develop and help improve then sure, we'd be getting loads of great new stuff. But for a time before the NC buyout, he was working on a competing product, scuppering CoH's chances.


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