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@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
I must admit I haven't read all of this thread, but have read a fair bit of it. I understand as a (straight male British) US server player where many of the points of view I've read come from.
My main server is Victory, which happens to be where a lot of the GLBT community play, and I have often teamed with them as a couple of my friends (one G one not) were in RAF or the gaymers.
Some of the stereotyping is brought on by the community themselves. I'm blurring the name so as not to incriminate anybody but trying to give you a sense of what I saw. If you call your toon Bitter <non derogatory word for G man>, and your bio is all about your breakup with your ex boyfriend and how you need to find another man, and all your toons are not just G, but high camp (Julian Clary style for any brits reading) G, think how the straight community see it.
If a straight man made a whole series of macho male toons whose bios were all about how they existed only to bed women, this might be seen as vaguely creepy, but I saw an awful lot of toons like that among the G community, and some players where all their toons that I saw were of that ilk.
That said, GL to the OP, I hope you find a like minded group, finding a group of Europeans on the US servers certainly extended my life in this game and made it a lot more fun.
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While it might sound weird to devote an SG to sexual preference...
The fact is that heterosexuals flaunt it flamboyantly quite often. It's just not noticed because it is considered the default behavior.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
While it might sound weird to devote an SG to sexual preference...
The fact is that heterosexuals flaunt it flamboyantly quite often. It's just not noticed because it is considered the default behavior. |
I got to agree with the posts i made 55 years ago at the start of this thread. I have gay/bi/lesbian friends and the large majority of them are what you'ld call normal and have zero problem with people who are either GBL.
What i find a bit wierd are people who make it so obvious that they're trying to rub it in your face that they are. I just cant see WHY somebody would change their personality to match their sexuality. When i go to town i dont try and make a point to every girl i meet by going "im straight dont worry" [though i have had to prove it to one girl once
], so i dont see why others feel a need to make everybody know about it.If you ask me it makes them seem like attention seekers if they act like that, just act your normal self and people will like you for your personality. These days especially, sexuality has become so widespread accepted that its not really even an issue.
Another mini serious rant by damz
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Hmm. Well, while this thread's still unearthed:
As a gay man, I've always been one for just hanging out with the people I like, regardless of sexual preference. I am by no means suggesting that people who are in gay SGs are discriminating against straight people, but I like the company of a group of people composed of all different kinds of sexual preferences. I think it's because I've spent my whole life wishing that I wasn't treated any differently from anybody else; I've no desire to make that separation myself.
On the note of gay parades, I wouldn't dare go to one, personally. I feel no need to show off that I'm gay. I do however, live in one of those places where being gay is still really, really frowned upon. I've received more drink cans being thrown at my face than I've actually consumed, and I've been pushed into a couple of shop shelves because I was holding hands with another guy. I understand that not everywhere is like here, but some people really don't know how lucky they are to be able to be themselves outside.
Second edit: I'm totally clueless what I should be doing with the word g-a-y here. Everyone's saying how it's censored, but I can read it on here just fine. I'm sure my post would make sense full of bleeps anyway.
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Because hetero is the de facto norm at the moment and homosexuals sometimes feel the need to raise awareness that they exist and are normal people just like everyone else (but are denied human rights that heteros take for granted) by having harmless entertaining parades here and there.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
People don't go about advertising heterosexual pride through cities flashing their wares and so on and so I don't get it with homosexuals who do that.
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I've got friends who are L, G and B in RL and they're all straight acting so that you wouldn't know unless ya ask them. |
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The server is cross continental, people of all ages could play at all hours and so as long as things are decent everything is fine. |
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Why anyone needs to make a social, sexual statement in a computer game though is beyond me. |
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Is the game a pulling tool? |
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Do you find that straight players run away? I've known a G person who led a successful and largish SG of mainly straight ppl and now they're happily married to a woman, go figure. |
Eco.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
I've got friends who are L, G and B in RL and they're all straight acting so that you wouldn't know unless ya ask them.
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The most offensive terminology ever invented imo!
I act like me, if acting like me happens to not involve embarassing myself prancing about, camping it up or mincing etc, I don't partiuarly want to be called straight acting, I still sleep with my partner, and thats not very straight acting!
ALso looking at your comment on Pride Marching etc, think of it less like flashing our wares, which unfortunately it has become of late, and more about celebrating our past. 2006 (iirc) London Pride was a big celebration of the lives of those involved in the Stonewall Riots, imo the biggest shakeup in Gay Equality ever, and also the lives of others who have sacrificed their time/experience/lives (figuritevely and literally) to Equality. I actually had a stall there for an oprganisation I worked with at the time, and felt very proud, not just of myself and sexuality, but also of everybody there and the other organisations we were next to.
Yeah it has become a bit showy, a bit camp, and a bit too much flesh on show, and that is why, without having any commitment to go, I avoid it, but the spirit is still there, people are allowed to hold rallys in streets to remember and celebrate war veterans, and thats why pride exists.
EDIT: On the subject of LGBT SGs, I wouldn't join, all the SGs I have joined and made friends with have been sharing a common enjoyment from this game, I wouldn't want to limit my experience of this game and the people I meet by joining an SG with people who loosely share a similar sexuality.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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Oh yeah, and on the note of 'straight-acting';
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This. Always thought of it as one of the most offensive terms I've heard. I was gonna bring it up in my previous post, but I didn't just want to sound like someone who was just trying to start an argument. I can see where people who use it are coming from (including some of the gay community), but I really, really don't like it.
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Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie
The most offensive terminology ever invented imo!
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I don't really unsterstand why members of a minority that has been so vocal about equal rights and acceptance in modern society (and rightfully so) feels the need to segregate themselves from the rest of the community in seperate organisations. Seems counterproductive to me.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
Certainly wasn't trying to start an arguement with New Dawn, or anyone else >< sorry if it sounded like that, but as other people have mentioned. Its a fairly redundant term for people to use. If only there was some way to remove it from the english language!
Though the benefit of threads like this, and SGs like this concept, is that it does go to show that without drawing attention to ourselves LGBTs really are just the same as everyone else in pretty much every way. I do find it odd that people let such a thing bother them.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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Firstly, sorry to double post ><|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
I don't really unsterstand why members of a minority that has been so vocal about equal rights and acceptance in modern society (and rightfully so) feels the need to segregate themselves from the rest of the community in seperate organisations. Seems counterproductive to me.
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I think it is more of a case of feeling secure, and relatively safe. Sure naming your SG and being a part of it may draw flack, but there are alot of people who haven't had the best of experiences with other people in real life, and in game.
Many major towns and cities have support groups for people dealing with having an LGBT sexuality, down to all levels of need, from full on counseling, to social situations where you can be yourself.
Wanting that sort of thing in game is not that unusual, especially since the game doesn't require all alts to be in the same SG, nobody has to fully segregate themselves.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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To be fair, a LGBT Supergroup/Villaingroup is not particularly different to a SG/VG comprised of, say, older players (i.e. 30+), or an SG/VG with a strict Greek Pantheon only theme.|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
I don't really unsterstand why members of a minority that has been so vocal about equal rights and acceptance in modern society (and rightfully so) feels the need to segregate themselves from the rest of the community in seperate organisations. Seems counterproductive to me.
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And if people want to group together for different reasons, then why does there even have to be a discussion of the reasons behind that?
IIRC the OP just wanted to know if there were any LGBT players out there who fancied forming a SG/VG. Would the same questions be asked of people who formed a SG/VG because they all worked late shifts and it was convenient to team together at that time, with people they gradually got to know, and felt comfortable with?
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Of course not. Unless, of course, for some reason working late shifts was a sexuality.|
Originally Posted by Arctic_Princess
To be fair, a LGBT Supergroup/Villaingroup is not particularly different to a SG/VG comprised of, say, older players (i.e. 30+), or an SG/VG with a strict Greek Pantheon only theme.
And if people want to group together for different reasons, then why does there even have to be a discussion of the reasons behind that? IIRC the OP just wanted to know if there were any LGBT players out there who fancied forming a SG/VG. Would the same questions be asked of people who formed a SG/VG because they all worked late shifts and it was convenient to team together at that time, with people they gradually got to know, and felt comfortable with? |
The reason there is controversy is because it covers sexuality, which covers sex, which is an uncomfortable topic for an awful lot of people. Especially in an MMO. No, you wouldn't necessarily have to be gay/bisexual/transgendered to join such an SG (how would you prove you were?), but in joining one, you are inadvertently announcing your sexual preferences. Personally, anyone who does that on the internet, outside of a dating/similar site, is going to encounter a very adamant, "And I care, why?"
As I may have said already, or has been said by someone else (it has been nearly a year since I read this thread through), I don't define a person by their sexuality. I do, however, define them by how much they go on about it.
Those would be my two pence (I will not be Americanised, damnit).
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That's a pretty good reason actually. In terms of acting as a semi-anonymous support group for someone I can see the reason for a GLBT SG in the game for those who wouldn't be able to talk about any issues they had in real life for whatever reasons.
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Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie
Firstly, sorry to double post ><
I think it is more of a case of feeling secure, and relatively safe. Sure naming your SG and being a part of it may draw flack, but there are alot of people who haven't had the best of experiences with other people in real life, and in game. Many major towns and cities have support groups for people dealing with having an LGBT sexuality, down to all levels of need, from full on counseling, to social situations where you can be yourself. Wanting that sort of thing in game is not that unusual, especially since the game doesn't require all alts to be in the same SG, nobody has to fully segregate themselves. |
It feels like I should have a lot to say about this, but I don't feel like sharing it all. If the guy had asked where he could find a intergalactic space angel supergroup it would have passed without comment. Joining a "gay" supergroup doesn't mean the player is gay anymore than me running around with a double-d bust and skin tight lycra makes me a hot chick. Not a big deal.
Though I can't believe it's 2010 and someone actually went there with the "throwing it in people's faces" schtick.
[EDIT: NM, looks that was back in 2009. :P]
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The reason they have Gay Pride Day is because every single other day of the year is Gay Shame Day.
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From you, perhaps.|
Originally Posted by Stasisesque
Personally, anyone who does that on the internet, outside of a dating/similar site, is going to encounter a very adamant, "And I care, why?"
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| As I may have said already, or has been said by someone else (it has been nearly a year since I read this thread through), I don't define a person by their sexuality. I do, however, define them by how much they go on about it. |
If I were so inclined I could raise the same points in forum posts about straight couples who are getting married. I mean, why do they have to go on about it?
Personally, whilst I am comfortable gaming with total strangers who assume, before I tell them, that I'm straight (as most people on this MMO do (I have no experience of other MMOs)), I'm not afraid of mentioning that my boyfriend is tutting as I play the game, for example. Not everyone who identifies as LGBT has the luxury of that. Therefore if I'm guilty of going on about it on here, then so what?
Most issues carry a degree of '(un)comfortability'. If people want to believe that sexuality is just about sex then perhaps some open discussion of it can disprove that black-and-white view.
For those that find it distasteful, they have the option of looking away. Same as any other subject.
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That would be why I added the caveat, "personally". |
Originally Posted by Arctic_Princess
From you, perhaps.
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Whilst that's a very right on attitude and covers bases (and I am only singling the quote out because I hope it will back up my next point), I think gay men, lesbians, transgendered people and bisexuals have as much right to go on about it as other people do. If I were so inclined I could raise the same points in forum posts about straight couples who are getting married. I mean, why do they have to go on about it? Personally, whilst I am comfortable gaming with total strangers who assume, before I tell them, that I'm straight (as most people on this MMO do (I have no experience of other MMOs)), I'm not afraid of mentioning that my boyfriend is tutting as I play the game, for example. Not everyone who identifies as LGBT has the luxury of that. Therefore if I'm guilty of going on about it on here, then so what? Most issues carry a degree of '(un)comfortability'. If people want to believe that sexuality is just about sex then perhaps some open discussion of it can disprove that black-and-white view. For those that find it distasteful, they have the option of looking away. Same as any other subject. |
I don't believe I said sexuality is about just sex, and if my statement did come across that way, I apologise. I meant it can and does have a sexual element - the same way, to borrow your example, a straight couple announcing their marriage has an underlying sexual element. It is perfectly reasonable to suggest the couple have never and will never have sex, but it's much more common to assume they have and will. Same if that couple were gay. Sex makes (some) people uncomfortable, so I can understand why even the most accepting and open-minded of people can be a little "weirded out" by someone announcing their sexuality, unprompted.
I'm lucky enough to have been born and raised in London - there's very, very little that shocks me or even that I find outside the norm. As such, I find pride in who you are rather tedious. Good! But tedious. We all do it here, it's old hat. So it's not as easy to fathom the horror some go through, living in places they are not able to be themselves. Ditto goes for family, accepting open-minded family warps your view of others not lucky enough to experience the same.
And for the record, while my "going on about it" threshold is usually fairly high (i.e. mentioning your partner won't set me off), if I'm having a bad day it drops a fair amount.
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Oh so the necroposter likes campness. I mention straight acting. People find that insulting. The necro poster mentions about campness...Go figure.|
Originally Posted by Major_Control
The Friends of Dorothy SG still appears to be semi-active as I saw "Camp Accountant" logged in yesterday. Not sure on their numbers but always brings a smile to my face when I see one of their members (ooer Mrs).
I would not join a totally g-a-y SG but that is just a personal preference and have no issues with anyone that would wish to do so. I have been lucky to find a great SG (GGRRR) where we have a great cross section of of all types of "mature" players and where the most important issue is always friendship and respect. I do not have exclusively g-a-y friends in RL and so enjoy the diversity of a mixed SG (race, gender, nationality etc.) and the COH community is what makes this game the best I have ever played. However, there are times when it would be fun to have a team, conversation, meeting etc. that had either a g-a-y theme or mood. Just like the Gay pride parades around the world your sexuality is not the issue - your attitude is. So how about a camp cossie contest in AP or a "Mr/Ms Paragon City". Possibly a way to bring people together would be a global chat channel for those of us who would attend g-a-y themed events? Or just add me to your friends list and lets pass the word amongst ourselves. |
My G,L,Bi, BLT loving friends don't mind me differentiating between them as straight acting or camp, maybe because I really have literally grown up with one who was so gay from the get go since they were atleast 5.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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"Camp" is a fairly specific set of mannerisms and rarely, if ever, used in a negative manner and not specific to GLBT individuals.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Oh so the necroposter likes campness. I mention straight acting. People find that insulting. The necro poster mentions about campness...Go figure.
My G,L,Bi, BLT loving friends don't mind me differentiating between them as straight acting or camp, maybe because I really have literally grown up with one who was so gay from the get go since they were atleast 5. |
"Straight acting" is an incredibly dense, and very broad, way of categorising people. Of course folk are going to find it offensive to be told they should act straight, or whichever. Good for you, using friends as a defense weapon, but people here aren't your friends.
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No people here need to chill out. They're just words. People can use what words they like. Seems to be that it's "it's alright for some to use "straight acting" and not alright for others". What is "straight acting" by definition changes slightly wherever you go. For many young people it's simply not acting camp and we have gay comedians to blame for that.|
Originally Posted by poptart_fairy
"Camp" is a fairly specific set of mannerisms and rarely, if ever, used in a negative manner and not specific to GLBT individuals.
"Straight acting" is an incredibly dense, and very broad, way of categorising people. Of course folk are going to find it offensive to be told they should act straight, or whichever. Good for you, using friends as a defense weapon, but people here aren't your friends. |
Graham Norton is camp. Alan Carr is camp. Lucas is camp. Chris Colfer from Glee. They're camp and it pays the bills. If they were to act straight then they probably wouldn't be so successful.
Camp by definition is more insulting than straight acting. Straight acting is a preferable word for me to use than "normal" and there is no need for me to say that as in "what's popularly accepted as normal around atleast 70% of the world" as people get my meaning.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
The Friends of Dorothy SG still appears to be semi-active as I saw "Camp Accountant" logged in yesterday. Not sure on their numbers but always brings a smile to my face when I see one of their members (ooer Mrs).
I would not join a totally g-a-y SG but that is just a personal preference and have no issues with anyone that would wish to do so. I have been lucky to find a great SG (GGRRR) where we have a great cross section of of all types of "mature" players and where the most important issue is always friendship and respect.
I do not have exclusively g-a-y friends in RL and so enjoy the diversity of a mixed SG (race, gender, nationality etc.) and the COH community is what makes this game the best I have ever played.
However, there are times when it would be fun to have a team, conversation, meeting etc. that had either a g-a-y theme or mood. Just like the Gay pride parades around the world your sexuality is not the issue - your attitude is.
So how about a camp cossie contest in AP or a "Mr/Ms Paragon City".
Possibly a way to bring people together would be a global chat channel for those of us who would attend g-a-y themed events? Or just add me to your friends list and lets pass the word amongst ourselves.