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It is quite funny actually. I like to watch them squirm. |
Originally Posted by shazan
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Yes it is amusing the idea it means they are not just homosexual but horribly primiscous and will roger anything given the chance. I am straight and even I find that one funny.|
Originally Posted by Rapthorn
It is quite funny actually. I like to watch them squirm.
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Something someone touched on earlier and that was with regard to sterotypes. I know myself I grw up with the typical comedy image of a camp "woofter" on TV. But funny thing is I guess because I leanred not to beleive in TV I sort of figured that yes gays did exist but they wernt really effemanate. hat was just a common joke to overexagerate the point a gay character was being prtrayed. I guess you could call this reverse naivity in a way.
It wasnt until my late teens I actually met a rather camp gay guy and my immediate reaction was suprise. Why? Because I didnt beleive anyone who was truly gay had those mannerisms. At first I thought he must have been play acting and joking around. But no that was him of course. Naturally it was for me to accept him and learn from the experience as I did and sure enough I met other camp people. And as has been pointed out not all camp people are gay. I digress a little here but it seems we cant remind ourselves enough we cant judge a book by its cover all the time.
But I find it interesting as how the debate has been raised that even GLBT can also expect someone to behave a certain way. ie think that someone who is "straight acting" (Id call it being themselves as everyone ought to be) ought to be more camp or whatever and must be trying to fit in.
Why do you use the name "Roger" for that? Is it a Brit thing?
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yup
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
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Thank you, at least someone see's the point i was making! :-)
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Originally Posted by Lodestar_1977
But I find it interesting as how the debate has been raised that even GLBT can also expect someone to behave a certain way. ie think that someone who is "straight acting" (Id call it being themselves as everyone ought to be) ought to be more camp or whatever and must be trying to fit in.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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So Captain America's real name is simply an unfinished sentence to you?
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Originally Posted by Rooks_EU
yup
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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No, it's just a warning of what he'll do to you if you're evil. remember kids, don't be evil or You'll be Captain America'd! |
Originally Posted by Golden_Girl_EU
So Captain America's real name is simply an unfinished sentence to you?
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@Wolfybane
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H: Wolfsbane(50 MA/ReGen), Orthoclase(50 Stone/Axe), Dreamhunter (50 Ill/Storm)
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V: Spektor(50 Spiddy)
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I assume he just doesn't like competition. |
Originally Posted by Wolfesbaine
No, it's just a warning of what he'll do to you if you're evil. remember kids, don't be evil or You'll be Captain America'd!
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Originally Posted by St_Angelius
First, the beginning of this tread seems to be sooo long ago now that all the people who have said "there is no discrimination against LGBT players on the euro servers need to re-read some of those old post... it exists, has been atested to by a fair few people. it may not be frequent, but it does exist.
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Originally Posted by Tired_Angel
And homophobia does happen in this game, both blatant (see Night Hornet's post near the start) and just being ignorant (people calling things 'gay' when they dont like it).
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Given that I can't see CoX as having any particular appeal to any specific sexual preferences (or bigotries) I'd expect the playerbase to have a similar distribution to the general populace. You get bigots in the world in general, so you'll get some here.
Luckily, for most of the English/French/German-speaking world, serious bigotry is a minority and that translates to the in-game population. (I guess that more covert/personal bigotry may exist in the general populace, but how the heck do you measure that?)
More luckily, in-game there's a system for dealing with bigotry that should be faster moving and more sympathetic to victims than many RL organisations often are.
So bigotry will exist, by virtue of the number of people playing, but it isn't common and if you come across it petition and I'm sure the GMs will take appropriate steps.
BTW - re: people calling things 'gay' when they dont like it
As I've argued elsewhere, in most cases I don't think it's actually linked to homosexuality anymore. 'Gay' has developed a second meaning (of 'lameness') and I suspect that many people who use it this way are ignorant of the words derivation (though if pressed I'd guess that they'd realise/guess it).
It's also ironic that you find the use of 'gay' in this context annoying as past generations found it annoying when the word gay was appropriated by homosexuals when previously it had only had the 'innocent' meanings of 'bright/cheerful' (or similar - not actually checking the dictionary on this one).
Languages move on. And loving language I'm often in a dichotomy over whether to embrace the changes or resist and uphold disappearing standards! On this I don't use gay in the lame-sense, but can see that it has become common enough to be a seperate definition with vanishing links to homosexuality.
I suppose that someone who uses gay as a synonym for 'lame' saw a brightly-coloured homosexual who wasn't particularly good at anything they may be able to use all 3 meanings by stating that 'that gay gay is so gay.'
BTW 2 - AFAIK queer is seen as a reasonably acceptable synonym for homosexual. But as queer previously meant 'odd' isn't that actually derogatory even though accepted by many homosexuals as being fine?
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Personally, I've always seen "queer" as a derogatory term for homosexuals, and would never use it, no matter what popular usage makes of it.
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Originally Posted by Judgement_Dave
BTW 2 - AFAIK queer is seen as a reasonably acceptable synonym for homosexual. But as queer previously meant 'odd' isn't that actually derogatory even though accepted by many homosexuals as being fine? |
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
I will admit I forgot to put in my post about the instances of homophobia being far between rather than regular! I meant to do that, so thats a fault on my part
EDIT - it wont let me edit my original post to say this, it keeps crashing 
I can see what you are saying about language changing Dave but in my opinion it doesn't make it right and shouldn't be challenged. Particularly when it is still used as a form of positive identification.
I personally don't think its acceptable to allow the term gay to become just another term for lame. This is because its origin will always be in the way that to call someone/something gay is bad because of people's attitude that to be gay is wrong.
As for queer - thats always been a difficult one in my opinion. I know gay men who use it and dont have issue, while others that do. I personally avoid describing myself or others that way because of the negative conatations.
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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I'm fairly sure that I remember the BBC having held an internal tribunal and reaching the conclusion that the phrase "That's so gay" was now so far removed from it's originally intended slur on homosexuality that it now simply means "lame, pathetic, worthless" to the majority of the populace, and should be considered intended as such if ever used in BBC programs.
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Im speechless if thats true! |
Originally Posted by shadowe_EU
I'm fairly sure that I remember the BBC having held an internal tribunal and reaching the conclusion that the phrase "That's so gay" was now so far removed from it's originally intended slur on homosexuality that it now simply means "lame, pathetic, worthless" to the majority of the populace, and should be considered intended as such if ever used in BBC programs.
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EDIT - Just to clarify on that - its because the LGBT groups I have worked with still actively work to stop the use of the gay in that way
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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the problem here is the BBC and the rest of the adult community who view the use of the word Gay to mean lame have failed to witness it's evolution to mean such. just because it's it is used by some of the younger generations now who are unaware of it's derivation/evolution and just use it because they are following the words used but their older peers doesn't take away the negative branding of the word. I'm only in my mid 30's yet I remember when the word used in the context of "That's lame" It didn't mean it was just lame, but that it was "Very homosexual like, and therefor lame". No matter how many people forget the usage in the past doesn't negate that past. Hence the continuing rows over what now are only allowed to be called "Golly's" I'm sure plenty of brits remember what they were called, and the rows over non arfo-carribean actors "Blacking up" For stage and screen roles, even though no-one bats an eye when black actors like eddie murphy and the waynes brothers "White up" for roles.
The only time that Gay as a synonym for lame will be accecptable is when it's use as a derogatory term for a member of the homosexual community has been totally and utterly wiped out!
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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unfortunatly it is true mate, the DJ Chris Moyles used the word to describe a mobile phone ring tone, in my opinion, a man of his age should have known better, and after the thousands of complaints the BBC made this ruling that it was ok in the sence that he meant it... this happened shortly after the ross-brand affair so kinda got push down in the news importance stake because of it.
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Originally Posted by Tired_Angel
Im speechless if thats true!
EDIT - Just to clarify on that - its because the LGBT groups I have worked with still actively work to stop the use of the gay in that way |
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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Y'see I was perfectly happy before gay came to mean homosexual and just referred to being bright/cheerful. As soon as words start being appropriated for slang there's going to be misunderstanding and possible offence caused.|
Originally Posted by St_Angelius
the problem here is the BBC and the rest of the adult community who view the use of the word Gay to mean lame have failed to witness it's evolution to mean such. just because it's it is used by some of the younger generations now who are unaware of it's derivation/evolution and just use it because they are following the words used but their older peers doesn't take away the negative branding of the word. I'm only in my mid 30's yet I remember when the word used in the context of "That's lame" It didn't mean it was just lame, but that it was "Very homosexual like, and therefor lame". No matter how many people forget the usage in the past doesn't negate that past.
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Heck - it's not as if we've run out of possible words that can be reasonably pronounced by a tongue attuned to English.
But there's part of me that see that as inevitable linguistic 'progress' (much as I dislike much of this 'progress' made in recent history).
Hopefully, since the gay as just 'lame' definition isn't going to be lost so quickly, the use of gay as 'lame because it's homosexual' will be forgotten quick enough. Maybe it even lingers longer if people get upset about it's derivation and so keep drawing attention to it.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
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well, yes, i agree, that would be nice, and it would have been better if the word have never been used to discribe a certain sexual orientation in the first place. but it was, and the people who have been on the receiving end of the negative conotations of the word, be it true or not, will unfortunatly find it hard to forget. |
Originally Posted by Judgement_Dave
Y'see I was perfectly happy before gay came to mean homosexual and just referred to being bright/cheerful. As soon as words start being appropriated for slang there's going to be misunderstanding and possible offence caused.
Heck - it's not as if we've run out of possible words that can be reasonably pronounced by a tongue attuned to English. But there's part of me that see that as inevitable linguistic 'progress' (much as I dislike much of this 'progress' made in recent history). Hopefully, since the gay as just 'lame' definition isn't going to be lost so quickly, the use of gay as 'lame because it's homosexual' will be forgotten quick enough. Maybe it even lingers longer if people get upset about it's derivation and so keep drawing attention to it. |
I just find it hard that people in authority can aprove the use of one word with obvious negative connotations based on sexual persuasion, yet condemn others based on negative racial connotation. Kinda, to me at least, gives out the impression that they don't mind about upsetting the LGBT commuity.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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I have lesbian friends who prefer the term "queer." Its not everyone's term of choice of course, but go figure.|
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
Personally, I've always seen "queer" as a derogatory term for homosexuals, and would never use it, no matter what popular usage makes of it.
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Of course, whenever I hear the word "queer," I think of this wonderful childhood book I used to read:
http://www.childhoodbooks.com/si/81589.html
Ah well, at least when bigots insult and abuse homosexuals, there are plenty of right thinking people jumping to their defense and shouting down the bigots.
Shame almost nobody ever thinks to do that for us larger than average folks.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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If its any consolation Im overweight as well!
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
Ah well, at least when bigots insult and abuse homosexuals, there are plenty of right thinking people jumping to their defense and shouting down the bigots.
Shame almost nobody ever thinks to do that for us larger than average folks. |
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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On the other hand there are quite a few groups which don't simply defend obesity and those who are over weight, but actively preach about how everyone should be like it, etc. Can't say I've seen very many militant pro-homos groups. Plus, on a hugely controversial note I can already see derailing the thread, being overweight is typically seen as a problem that can be overcome far easier than one's orientation.
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
Ah well, at least when bigots insult and abuse homosexuals, there are plenty of right thinking people jumping to their defense and shouting down the bigots.
Shame almost nobody ever thinks to do that for us larger than average folks. |
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Before anyone leaps on poptart for the last line of this, please read it as "being overweight is typically seen as a problem that can be overcome, whereas ones sexual orientation is fundamental to ones nature", since I'm sure that's what was meant.
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Originally Posted by poptart_fairy
On the other hand there are quite a few groups which don't simply defend obesity and those who are over weight, but actively preach about how everyone should be like it, etc. Can't say I've seen very many militant pro-homos groups. Plus, on a hugely controversial note I can already see derailing the thread, being overweight is typically seen as a problem that can be overcome far easier than one's orientation.
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The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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Oh, I'm positive he meant that too. I know Poppy. |
Originally Posted by shadowe_EU
Before anyone leaps on poptart for the last line of this, please read it as "being overweight is typically seen as a problem that can be overcome, whereas ones sexual orientation is fundamental to ones nature", since I'm sure that's what was meant.
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Still, BOTH groups are subject to some pretty unpleasant bigotry, yet I've never had anyone stand up for ME and tell the bigots to shut it, quite the opposite in fact (not that I personally need it, you understand). I just think it's really really sad that one group is oft defended, and another is oft ridiculed.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Actually, that gives me an excuse to elaborate on a small point that's been floating in the back of my mind as I've been reading this thread, and it applies to everyone, not just homosexuals. There seems to be a tendency in a very minor subset of posts that appears to me as saying "minorities should be protected from being offended by bigots". |
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
Ah well, at least when bigots insult and abuse homosexuals, there are plenty of right thinking people jumping to their defense and shouting down the bigots.
Shame almost nobody ever thinks to do that for us larger than average folks. |
This is exactly the wrong way to go about it.
I, personally, want anyone, including the bigots of this world, to be able to say exactly what they think. And then I'll jump down their throats and call them on their crap. I want to know who these people are so I can respond to them, in the open. The only way we'll ever be rid of bigotry and discrimination is to lance the boil and bring the whole seething, pustulent mess into the light of day.
No, it's probably not going to be fun. Yes, you will open yourself to a lot of foul language. But to segregate yourself and avoid mixing with other people not sharing your particular background/situation/whatever because you're afraid of what others will think of you only increases the problems in the long term.
And who knows? You might even be very pleasantly surprised by people's reaction.
/rant over. We return to your previously scheduled thread, already in progress.
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@Golden Girl
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