Posi on Abusing Mission Architect
By
2wabbits,
Posted on: 2009-05-05 13:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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See now i call exploits getting under a map and shooting foes that cant shoot back.
Not this.
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And shooting comm-ofs from under 20-something forcefields (which pretty much ensures that they never hit) is different how? (And yes, it still could be done, even after Sky Raiders patch.)
Well i am in the thanks posi for doing something camp 
_ arf arf mind bleach a camp posi before soem one else takes the mick
Since MA practically the only teams i can get are MA farm teams ;(, i went to solo MA on my lvl 6 pb as a test and it was just silly .
I For one would have canceled if they had not done anything about it
Well there is a speech that might funnel the flow of characters that might have used the exploit but seriously it was there and people were able and the axe ultimately lands on the people who leave their front door open.
I couldn't give a toot if people ran around with the 50's they made. The fact is closed beta failed. The devs failed to view all potential outcomes before publish. People who didn't fail to pick up on it the moment it went live did the "Oh look a 5 pound note on floor" thing and took what was there.
I actually did no such PL as believe me when I say farming is boring, to me it really is. But complete loss of a character could be harsh where imo some blame lies with those who created and released it as giving an inch will lead to miles taken.
PLed characters could have a "No badges allowed" fate. This means that in inviting people to a team to say get a MoSTF done I don't have to unknowingly end up with someone who needs to be taught how to play in the process, this was what worried me most.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I can see them slapping a player with a warning, THEN slapping them with bans, alt locking and other punishments, but straight out punishing people for their mistakes is rather harsch, and the amoung of hard slaps would be so general, uncontrolled and immense or totally useless aimed at a very small amount thereby not actually doing anything about the situation. Both alternatives are bad and the potential of unfair treatment even with the "appeal process" in a fairly small game. Well, it just smells so Bush 9/11 anti-democratic:
It must be those fascist longbows behind it! I knew they where fascists and paragon's always smelled like a US supported fascist regime like Batista's Cuba or even Chile.
Edit: The freedom loving europeans won't stand for it! 
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Delting toons that has been powerlvled by players using the tools the DEVS gave us is no exploit at all.
You cant punish players for using the tools the devs gave us.
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You give me a gun. I shoot a man dead. Is it your fault that there is now a dead man at my feet?
No, it's mine. Just because you're given something doesn't mean you have to use it. The people who abused the MA for farming deserve everything they get. If my warshade is stripped of his levels then that's the way it goes... he gets deleted and I start over.
It's amazing that the powers that be didn't realise just how much farming would go on. Monkeys/keys to the banana plantation anyone? At the end of it all though, it's their game, their rules... but they need to be careful.
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Leif_Roar~Not as such, but there is this bit:
"You agree that NC Interactive may take whatever steps it deems necessary to abridge, or prevent behavior of any sort on the Service in its sole discretion, without notice to you."
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And I reserve the right to cancel my subscriptions, yes all 4 of them if I feel that their rules and regulations are unjust and the issue is their own fault
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Golden Girl~But there was a warning in the MA patch notes:
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NCsoft reserves the right to ban any missions that contain any exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages. Players and/or "authors" that advertise exploitable missions through our forums, in-game chat system or through the Mission Architect system may be banned from the Mission Architect System or may have their game account closed.
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Yes deleting arcs that they deem abusive is fine, that is correcting something they deem as abusive and issuing the user with a warning, stripping rewards that have already been gained is out of order!
That would be like giving your employees a bonus for hitting a target, and then taking it back because too many of them hit it. You would be sitting in that office on your own.!!! Are you listening posi!!!
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
Is this The Coming Storm?
Cancelled in Three - MA ID #34608. Please play and comment! Top 10 placing in Projectionist's MA contest!
I'm coming to the conclusion that its NC's plan to alienate as many sections of its playerbase as it can in 2009, I'm wondering if CoH2 by a different name is nearer than I expected. Easier to close the servers if you empty them first.
My only risk on this is that I tested a few melee toons against full spawns of bosses....... cause well the game wasn't testing them enough before. I like having 17 bosses trying to kill my tank, it means I actually have to watch the screen
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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I can see them slapping a player with a warning, THEN slapping them with bans, alt locking and other punishments, but straight out punishing people for their mistakes is rather harsch, and the amoung of hard slaps would be so general, uncontrolled and immense or totally useless aimed at a very small amount thereby not actually doing anything about the situation. Both alternatives are bad and the potential of unfair treatment even with the "appeal process" in a fairly small game. Well, it just smells so Bush 9/11 anti-democratic:
It must be those fascist longbows behind it! I knew they where fascists and paragon's always smelled like a US supported fascist regime like Batista's Cuba or even Chile.
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Blame the 5th Column, not Longbow 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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The fact is closed beta failed.
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TBH closed beta seemed to be working - but then they opened up to Open Beta and then to live a lot quicker than they should have.
The quality of feedback/bug-spotting on the forums seemed, IMO, to drop when I14 hit open and the masses clamoured to make their arcs ready for launch. This meant that they were then more interested in finding out 'how do I trigger an ambush' rather than testing that the ambushes appeared to spawn correctly for various factions/team sizes/reps etc etc
i.e. people moved to wanting to create the mission that they had in mind rather than test that MA mechanisms were WAI.
Sure - some in closed beta were working on arcs ready for live - but I got the impression that there was a better proportion of people testing for testings sake.
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The devs failed to view all potential outcomes before publish.
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I did laugh at that.
You can criticise the devs for failing to 'view' some pretty obvious outcomes/problems before publishing. But it's stupid to criticise them for failing to view 'all potential outcomes' in a system this size/complex.
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my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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Is this The Coming Storm?
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No, just the Com Officer Storm
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Is this The Coming Storm?
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Ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Someone give this poster a prize!
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Delting toons that has been powerlvled by players using the tools the DEVS gave us is no exploit at all.
You cant punish players for using the tools the devs gave us.
[/ QUOTE ]
You give me a gun. I shoot a man dead. Is it your fault that there is now a dead man at my feet?
No, it's mine. Just because you're given something doesn't mean you have to use it. The people who abused the MA for farming deserve everything they get. If my warshade is stripped of his levels then that's the way it goes... he gets deleted and I start over.
It's amazing that the powers that be didn't realise just how much farming would go on. Monkeys/keys to the banana plantation anyone? At the end of it all though, it's their game, their rules... but they need to be careful.
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Hell yeah it is, if I know what you're gonna do with the gun, and everyone WARNED me about it!
Everyone WAS shouting madly about MA being the farmers wet dream and they still didn't test it properly for that. So don't be silly!
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A map full of level 51 bosses offers plenty of risk vs reward
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indeed.
something had to be done it was/is insane but i can see a can with what looks like worms in approaching....
comm maps no risk mucho reward, maps full of lvl 51+ bosses slighty harder no? need quite a specialized team to take that down. therein lies my main point, i and i assume many others will feel that our definitions of exploiting may differ slighty from the increasingly naive powers that be.
many of us used a tool, many of us used a tool that enabled our xp/time ratio to skyrocket, this = good. as players most of us in one form or another want to maximise xp/time (that might as someone rather eloquently wrote recently)that might be as little as not talking that DE mish when council and freaks are so easy. exploit? no of course not. maximising xp/time? totally.
devs on the other hand want to maximise risk/reward. they dont want it so easy we become bored they dont want it so hard we never bother. that said who the hell in the veritable (but so far invisible) dev army thought the MA wouldn't get abused?
anyway easy come easy go i'm only talking personally about 1 pesky build that was just so laborious this was too good to pass up. think of all the other people who will swiftly leave (i am not in that number been here and will be here for much much longer) we do however need PLAYERS.
some people will of course argue "yeah we don't need that type" i would argue we dont need yours either anyone who plays the City of games is an automatic winner in my book whatever they do in game.
this game now more than ever needs players, if that means that a few 50s are still at 50 so farmers or whatever can carry on farming then so be it. stop MA kill MA do whatever you like i am worried what will happen in julyish when we aren't the only horse in town and we have just taken xp AWAY from the playbase! CO must be loving this announcement.
i am certainly not in favour of the insanity of xp on display recently or the imbeciles who have no idea how to do anything but want all the trimmings.
blame the "farmers" blame whoever you want devs it is my opinion that YOU have borked this release, and with so many tempting games on offer this is going to be interesting!
i personally ( not that it matters) don't blame anyone other than the devs for the current state of play. i think its fascinating to see what will happen and what they do. maybe they should start have a few "idea showers" about how they allowed this to go live?
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See now i call exploits getting under a map and shooting foes that cant shoot back.
Not this.
[/ QUOTE ]
And shooting comm-ofs from under 20-something forcefields (which pretty much ensures that they never hit) is different how? (And yes, it still could be done, even after Sky Raiders patch.)
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Not everyone had 20 bubbles.
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Leif_Roar~Not as such, but there is this bit:
"You agree that NC Interactive may take whatever steps it deems necessary to abridge, or prevent behavior of any sort on the Service in its sole discretion, without notice to you."
[/ QUOTE ]
And I reserve the right to cancel my subscriptions, yes all 4 of them if I feel that their rules and regulations are unjust and the issue is their own fault
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Golden Girl~But there was a warning in the MA patch notes:
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NCsoft reserves the right to ban any missions that contain any exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages. Players and/or "authors" that advertise exploitable missions through our forums, in-game chat system or through the Mission Architect system may be banned from the Mission Architect System or may have their game account closed.
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Yes deleting arcs that they deem abusive is fine, that is correcting something they deem as abusive and issuing the user with a warning, stripping rewards that have already been gained is out of order!
That would be like giving your employees a bonus for hitting a target, and then taking it back because too many of them hit it. You would be sitting in that office on your own.!!! Are you listening posi!!!
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if you are lucky it might be included in the eu report posi skims through before throwing it in a bin.
I think this is a very good idea from positron.
ffs guys hes not sayingt your all gunna loose your ma leveled toons, hes saying is you take the [censored] after t5he cvhanges have been implemented you could lo9ose the toons that you took the [censored] on.
oh an stop threatening to leave no-one gives a [censored],this game is great fun, an will continue to be great even when youve left.
Go on positron implement your proposed changes an if you do overdo it io may complain, but if its stops noobs on fire/.kins badly etc ill be happy.
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
Its absolutely the devs fault.
Prisoners were taken from the list of MA mobs 1 week after launch and several other mobs too, how much effort would it have been to just take comm officers from the MA mobs ?
Mabye 1 day....
The devs cant blame players for their own shortcommings, they DID know comm officers were abused to farm, and they didnt take them from the list of MA mobs for weeks, which would have been a very easy thing to do.
Its like saying :
" We know comm officers are broken, and while we removed several non farmable mobs from the MA list in a matter of days, we refuse to remove comm officers from MA list , but if you use them you get your char deleted"
( Note reply is not towards the above )
They've really cooked up a sh**storm using their own frying pan, to be honest. Considering the competition that is coming out, and with the recent loss of EU subscribers ( no idea US side ) this game is inevitably going to plummet. My opinion anyway, my point stands that why are they going berserk over MA farming, when regular farming can PL roughly 2/3x MA farming could. I'm getting the impression here that 6 hours is not appropiate, so where were they back when normal farming allowed you to go to 1-50 in 20/30 hours in an efficient farming team. It would have certainly kept us all in check today.
It's silly, since some people enjoy farming and by that I mean working to get their moneys-worth for slotting, etc for PvP. I can foresee farming in general getting sucked in this ban-mad void. Which in turn will just skyrocket market prices, no debate. I was in praise of them, and in particular positron but this has totally made me rescind my comments. Oh and btw, if were on the topic of what is exploitative, pretty much all forms of farming "exploits" the weakness of a group to your own strength. It's called intelligent combat, or something anyway. So if they've to stand by their point, ALL farming must be removed. Hence bring the ban-crazy.
Even if you have the power, and the right to do so, if you start the fire don't friggin' add oil to it. Thats whats happened, and people here can say " oh bye pharmahs, we told you so" but rest assured, the irony will hit you month or two down the line, if they progress to ban excessively which no doubt they will.
Fury
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Hell yeah it is, if I know what you're gonna do with the gun, and everyone WARNED me about it!
Everyone WAS shouting madly about MA being the farmers wet dream and they still didn't test it properly for that. So don't be silly!
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Silly? I don't think so. You're not an automaton, you're posessed of free will. You could have made a conscious decision not farm the MA.
Just because we all said MA is going to provide a perfect environment for farming does not make it any better. The devs might have dropped the ball on this, but people still came along and exploited the fact that the devs had released something that'd do something other than they intended.
There's your exploit right there.
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There's your exploit right there.
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i street sweep in DA with fire based toons as they hate fire, there's another exploit. bannage?
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Hell yeah it is, if I know what you're gonna do with the gun, and everyone WARNED me about it!
Everyone WAS shouting madly about MA being the farmers wet dream and they still didn't test it properly for that. So don't be silly!
[/ QUOTE ]
Silly? I don't think so. You're not an automaton, you're posessed of free will. You could have made a conscious decision not farm the MA.
Just because we all said MA is going to provide a perfect environment for farming does not make it any better. The devs might have dropped the ball on this, but people still came along and exploited the fact that the devs had released something that'd do something other than they intended.
There's your exploit right there.
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Your the silly one, why on earth would people choose to level their toons to 50 over 400+ Hours when they can do it within 24 - 36.
Thats not automaton behaviour thats bloody common sense!
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
They could have removed MA from live servers till they figured out how to fix it.
They did that to other things too:
Anyone remember Cathedral of Pain and Items of Power ?
It was broken an removed from game only some weeks after release.....never to come back........
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There's your exploit right there.
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i street sweep in DA with fire based toons as they hate fire, there's another exploit. bannage?
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Of course not, an elemental vulnerability is designed to make that foe weak against something.
Thing is... EVERYONE WAS SHOUTING about how the MA would be "exploited" and they didn't really test if for "exploits", using "exploits" with the "'s because I don't consider it to be a real exploit.
They could've gone CoP on us, taking down the MA until they'd fixed the com officers or... whatever... They didn't, they left it in... I'd even go as far as saying that's bate'ing, fishing, asking the players to use it.
THEY messed up, AGAIN! ROYALLY!!! Punishing players in general, or even threatening to do it is insane, especially after the long rant after the 5th ani speech. People are already really, really aggravated.
I said it before as a joke, but now I really believe it:
Posi must've been bribed by Cryptic to get us all to leave for their uninteresting game whether we like it or not. Yes, I actually do believe it now (As in believe, think, suppose, not "I have proof"). It just blows my mind how the Royal screw-ups keep getting worse every year.