Posi on Abusing Mission Architect
By
2wabbits,
Posted on: 2009-05-05 13:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Do you REALLY want to end up with no customers?
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It will lose more if it stays as it is, I for one don't like all the zones being turned into farm request lines & would consider leaving because of it..
Farming does have a place in the game, but not to this extreme...
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Im not saying i agreed with what was happening and if this is the stance they want to take then thats fine, but dont start talking about "back dating" punnishments.
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It's not back-dataing - there was a clear warning in the MA patch notes that exploiters would be in trouble.
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How can anything be an explote when the system was given to us by the devs, there is nothing stoping you from making a whole map full of EBS now this isnt moaned at as PL its just part of the MA sysem.
Why give players the chance to make there own missions and let them play how they want only to turn around and become all high and mighty about when they dont like whats being made?
What posistron is saying in a nut shell is do it are way or get stuffed, what he forgets is its the players who are paying his wages each month!!
As for trying to make balance and making it a challanging cgame christ the guy must play a dufferent game to me as its far from challanging thats why i made missions full of AVS toi give me someting hard to fight.
This is just a joke and i so wish he would bring his sad self over to this side sometimes to answer for his crimes.
Bad move pos, you need to get some direction going in this game very soon as you have lost not only the plot but any direction the game is going !!
Where does his kind of thing stop? where is the line?
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Im not saying i agreed with what was happening and if this is the stance they want to take then thats fine, but dont start talking about "back dating" punnishments.
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It's not back-dataing - there was a clear warning in the MA patch notes that exploiters would be in trouble.
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Read it again, what was "lose access to chars leveled this way" or whatever it was he said.
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But that's included in the warning on exploiting - they even say it can include account closure, which is way more serious than having an avatar suspended.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Do you REALLY want to end up with no customers?
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It will lose more if it stays as it is, I for one don't like all the zones being turned into farm request lines & would consider leaving because of it..
Farming does have a place in the game, but not to this extreme...
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I agree, and i think if they want to say enough is enough thats fine, but do it from now, 7pm today or whatever.
Dont start talking about demoting/deleting/banning chars because for every 1-50 in 1 day char theres another that some poor sod who was just sick of not having stamina pre 22 going west with it.
hmm I do get the sense that they're going to apply the biggest sledgehammer possible, turning the MA from popular, if misused, item into a barren wasteland where only those with a really big interest in stories go.
Seriously before you apply your mahoosive sledgehammer atleast think about what's going to happen...
For the love of all that's holy do TWEAKS! Don't apply a rocket launcher to smoosh a bothersome fly.
Plus the [censored]storm that's going to happen on the gaming websites (alright CoX isn't popular enough to really create a big fuss) when people hear of banhappy devs, no matter the reason, the voices calling the devs jerks will outweight the more reasoned voices 10 to 1 since this is the internets obviously.
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
Simply means if you've completly taken the [censored] with the MA system & leveled a toon 50 levels in a matter of hours.
I seen the warnings, there was a warning before it was even released that the MA system wouldnt be allowed to be used for creating "perfect farms" etc
I don't like the idea & I hope the lose access to the toon is something permanent rather than a temp suspension thing...& I hope it then can't be deleted so it takes up one of the slots permanently 
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Why give players the chance to make there own missions and let them play how they want only to turn around and become all high and mighty about when they dont like whats being made?
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Well, think of it as like being given a gun licence, or a driving licence - you can do whatever you like with your gun/car - but there are rules of use that you mustn't break.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
It's still a problem:
- yes, they could find anyone that used MA in 2 days to get 50s and I'm not too bothered with them getting punished
...but: where do you draw the line? As someone said: Is it an exploit to do missions with just bosses, EBs and other "hard to kill" stuff and then replay it repeatedly with a good team? Is it abuse to play "Butterfly effect" repeatedly for the dev choise badges? or the hall of fame badges where there's basically ONE mission available SOMETIMES?
Basically they're saying what the US government's been doing since 9/11: Be afraid, we won't tell you what, but be afraid.
Now, a LOT of people apparently used it, judging by the crowds just in Cap Au Diable. [censored] them off, or even scaring them, well, I just simply agree with London here, Posi's shooting himself in the foot again, lining himself up for the firing squad. ...and I thought DE was handled badly! :P
Also: this is a clear example of what happens when you put in a bunch of "epic" badges (=Amazingly stupid, moronic badges). The community finds a way. They basically encourage people to do the "wrong" thing with those.
If I where Posi I'd say: Thanks for making some problems VERY obvious to us. We messed up, we dropped the ball and we took our bloody time picking it up. For that we'll let you have whatever you got unfairly, after all, some of you really are evil(tm)!! but beware, from now on, we'll monitor the game more carefully, we'll warn you and we will use whatever force is necessary if you keep abusing our good will and trust.
It's d00m, it's really d00m! Schesus these last few weeks they've really, really dropped the ball!
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I wonder if the mission-rating cartel on Sal's badgehunters channel will be in trouble - any channel mods might want to wrap that up asap. It certainly left a bad taste in my mouth seeing it justified as (and I paraphrase) "well the farmers have already wrecked the rating system, so it doesn't really matter that we're doing this to farm the badges". With those badges gone there'll be no need for it, and with other rating cartels and farming being hit hard as well (hopefully), MA ratings can go back to being about the quality of the story in the arc and how fun the gameplay is, instead of being about badges/farming or popularity contests.
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That's a quote from something I personally said on Badgehunters... and I'll repeat the follow on comments from that you for some reason decided not to quote here for everyone; that is that most of the high rated arcs were either experience farms or, in the case of some of the others, were being voted for based upon popularity of the author (their SGs were voting for them en-masse) or just because it appealed to the lowest common denominator.
And that isn't going to change just because of the "Badging cartel"... you'll still get hundreds of badly written "LOLNoobs" humour rise to the top, just as it has in every single MMO that creates custom content. It was ImaNewbie in the late 1990s for Ultima Online, it's the various jokes about infinite backpacks and AFK and female armor in the WoW comic contest submissions, and you'll get hundreds of Footsteps Initiatives highly ranked in City of Heroes.
You want to see quality and good gameplay? Well, the world doesn't work like that. It produces huge amounts of popular dross and the odd hidden diamond. I had high hopes at first of the MA too, but I'm not so naive that I can't see what's right in front of my eyes when the true shape is finally revealed... and the bad taste isn't going to go away as long as ratings of any kind are in the MA. You've now seen what the CoH community is like; they aren't going to vote for the things you value no matter how many times you re-do the vote. You and you're arcs (and me and mine for that matter) aren't going to get into the top of any honest vote. Quality never does.
The Dev's themselves probably aren't going to do much better for that matter; "The Butterfly Effect"...? A 3 mission introduction to another arc, which can be played through in 5 minutes, despite the unbalanced AV at the end? And has internal dialogue contradictions even in that tiny content (the first glowie indicates Dr Aeon uses a 64 bit encryption, the final glowie indicates he uses "123456" as his password)...?
No, you're going to be very, very disappointed in what's coming down the pike I think... Now me, I was happy to just take something no one had any use for and use it for my own personal, and non-harmful to others hobbies of badging... even as I was disgusted how true abusive farming was wrecking the rest of the game.
Still, it has led to a roleplaying experience today, preaching the gospel of the Prophet Positron from Town Hall, and getting a few people to start discussing lawsuits... Alas I didn't find many recruits to my new cartel though!
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OK first off, the only "bug" or exploit in the game was com officers giving the xp they shouldn't.
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That wasn't a bug - Comms Officers were changed to give Lt level XP on purpose. Rather hilariously, this change was made to avoid portal farming - the Comms Officers used to give minion XP, while the portal gave a huge chunk, and people were putting a tiny bit of damage on the portals then waiting for them to automatically de-summon, giving the XP bonus.
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Read it again, what was "lose access to chars leveled this way" or whatever it was he said.
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Simply means if you've completly taken the [censored] with the MA system & leveled a toon 50 levels in a matter of hours.
I seen the warnings, there was a warning before it was even released that the MA system wouldnt be allowed to be used for creating "perfect farms" etc
I don't like the idea & I hope the lose access to the toon is something permanent rather than a temp suspension thing...& I hope it then can't be deleted so it takes up one of the slots permanently
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But why blame your players for using a system that was given to them, if they didnt want farming in MA they could have done more to stop it BEFORE it went live.
Its just once again the devs not seeing that hey have done it wrong.
What company in its right mind blames its customers!! thats the fast way o loose them.
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How can anything be an explote when the system was given to us by the devs, there is nothing stoping you from making a whole map full of EBS now this isnt moaned at as PL its just part of the MA sysem.
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That's pretty much THE definition of exploit, - you're able to do something so overpowered that there ought to be a mechanism for stopping you from doing that, but because of devs' oversight, there isn't.
What is unique about this meow issue is its scale (1-50 in less than a day) and number of users (most players, to an extent), not its nature.
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Why give players the chance to make there own missions and let them play how they want only to turn around and become all high and mighty about when they dont like whats being made?
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Well, think of it as like being given a gun licence, or a driving licence - you can do whatever you like with your gun/car - but there are rules of use that you mustn't break.
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Ok show me in the rules where it says that players cant make a farm mission. And those words to the letter as abuse can be used for anything not just MA
Delting toons that has been powerlvled by players using the tools the DEVS gave us is no exploit at all.
You cant punish players for using the tools the devs gave us.
It was the devs fault and not the players fault, but as always its easier to blame the bad bad players for your own faults.
If you want to punish players for something you gave them, warn them FIRST, you cant really punish players subsequently.
Now as its clear you can punish people who still use MA to farm but NOT the ones who already did it.
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Simply means if you've completly taken the [censored] with the MA system & leveled a toon 50 levels in a matter of hours.
I seen the warnings, there was a warning before it was even released that the MA system wouldnt be allowed to be used for creating "perfect farms" etc
I don't like the idea & I hope the lose access to the toon is something permanent rather than a temp suspension thing...& I hope it then can't be deleted so it takes up one of the slots permanently
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Thats it mate, laugh it up, all the way to another empty zone.
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Delting toons that has been powerlvled by players using the tools the DEVS gave us is no exploit at all.
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Same logic would apply to that old respec bug that allowed to solo Hamidon. It was just use of dev-given tool in an unforeseen manner. Exploitable things are by definition added to the game by the devs. That doesn't make them any less exploitable.
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Why give players the chance to make there own missions and let them play how they want only to turn around and become all high and mighty about when they dont like whats being made?
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Well, think of it as like being given a gun licence, or a driving licence - you can do whatever you like with your gun/car - but there are rules of use that you mustn't break.
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Ok show me in the rules where it says that players cant make a farm mission. And those words to the letter as abuse can be used for anything not just MA
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That's covered in the "unintended statistical advantages" bit.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Why give players the chance to make there own missions and let them play how they want only to turn around and become all high and mighty about when they dont like whats being made?
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Well, think of it as like being given a gun licence, or a driving licence - you can do whatever you like with your gun/car - but there are rules of use that you mustn't break.
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Ok show me in the rules where it says that players cant make a farm mission. And those words to the letter as abuse can be used for anything not just MA
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That's covered in the "unintended statistical advantages" bit.
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Rubbish, wouldnt stand up in court a good lawyer would walk all over that.
It'll be interesting to see where this goes. I think it's fair enough to ban arcs in this way - as long as there's some sort of in-game warning first, a lot of people won't read this otherwise.
Punishing people who have power-levelled, retroactively, seems extremely unfair. There was no warning of that with I14; just one about publishing arcs with exploits. I realise the EULA means they can pretty much do as they want, but it seems a bad move given how wide-spread this has been. As I said in another thread, I can see people leaving over this.
Again, if this is going to be done, there should be an in-game warning for people who don't read the forums, and it should be applied forwards. Otherwise, can you imagine what it'll be like for people who've joined recently to suddenly have their toons locked off? They won't stay.
Overall, something needed to be done and I'm glad to see something happen about the situation, as things couldn't sensibly stay as they were. However, I'd really prefer to see serious game changes made than just enforcement like this.
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I agree, and i think if they want to say enough is enough thats fine, but do it from now, 7pm today or whatever.
Dont start talking about demoting/deleting/banning chars because for every 1-50 in 1 day char theres another that some poor sod who was just sick of not having stamina pre 22 going west with it.
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[censored] me, I never thought I'ld actually say this, but I agree with Londoner. I really do think that if they start hacking away at every character that touched the MA before this announcment was made it wouldn't solve anything but create further negative feeling. It -might- satisfy the more bloodlusty members of the community that loathed the MA.
Shadowplay - Scrapper DM/DA SL 50
Doctor Storm- Brute SS/Elec SL 50
"speed boosts someone in the face" - Cognito
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How can anything be an explote when the system was given to us by the devs, there is nothing stoping you from making a whole map full of EBS now this isnt moaned at as PL its just part of the MA sysem.
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That's pretty much THE definition of exploit, - you're able to do something so overpowered that there ought to be a mechanism for stopping you from doing that, but because of devs' oversight, there isn't.
What is unique about this meow issue is its scale (1-50 in less than a day) and number of users (most players, to an extent), not its nature.
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See now i call exploits getting under a map and shooting foes that cant shoot back.
Not this.
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Why give players the chance to make there own missions and let them play how they want only to turn around and become all high and mighty about when they dont like whats being made?
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Well, think of it as like being given a gun licence, or a driving licence - you can do whatever you like with your gun/car - but there are rules of use that you mustn't break.
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Ok show me in the rules where it says that players cant make a farm mission. And those words to the letter as abuse can be used for anything not just MA
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That's covered in the "unintended statistical advantages" bit.
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Rubbish, wouldnt stand up in court a good lawyer would walk all over that.
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They don't need it to stand up in court - they have the EULA 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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But why blame your players for using a system that was given to them, if they didnt want farming in MA they could have done more to stop it BEFORE it went live.
Its just once again the devs not seeing that hey have done it wrong.
What company in its right mind blames its customers!! thats the fast way o loose them.
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Had more people tested the MA during test stages I'm sure they'd have found that people would be able to exploit it wherever possible & so easily. They arent blaming customers, its just one of the many exploits in the game that customers/players shouldnt really use to such extremes. People were told that they wouldnt be allowed to use this as a farming utility before hand, so punishments for extreme users is pretty fair..
As I said, I'd consider leaving if this extreme City of Farmers era in which everyones a farmer didnt end..
Every farm request in Atlas & Mercy/Cap made me more excited to buy DC Universe online & get out of this..
Now its getting fixed/clamped down on & can focus on this game rather than anticipating another
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Delting toons that has been powerlvled by players using the tools the DEVS gave us is no exploit at all.
You cant punish players for using the tools the devs gave us.
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Every exploit used by players in-game has been supplied by the devs, unless those exploits involved hacking NCSoft's database. So just arguing "You gave us the tools!" isn't much of an argument, to be brutally honest.
�How do I like my MMOs? I like them the way Paragon Studios used to make them.� - a fitting tribute from kiasa.org
EU, Union mostly.
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Im not saying i agreed with what was happening and if this is the stance they want to take then thats fine, but dont start talking about "back dating" punnishments.
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It's not back-dataing - there was a clear warning in the MA patch notes that exploiters would be in trouble.
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Technically it isn't. But it would feel that way to many. First Law of MMO: Devs are there to be hated. Second Law: No one reads legalese, esp. those "we reserve the right to do anything, anytime" clauses, unless that legalese is very visibly enforced from the get-go. (Putting farm-related terms into the filters apparently wasn't visible enough for many.)