Posi on Abusing Mission Architect
By
2wabbits,
Posted on: 2009-05-05 13:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Problem with images like that is it's quite simple to have a level 50 in 1 hour. Level pact, never log in, let the other partner get to 50, log in.
I guess we'll never know for certain, but I'd like written claims as well as a simple image.
�How do I like my MMOs? I like them the way Paragon Studios used to make them.� - a fitting tribute from kiasa.org
EU, Union mostly.
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A majority of players have indeed been requesting measures to be taken against farming since Beta. Measures can now be taken.
It's taken a while to get to the bottom of this but please, does it have this poisonous on these boards?
I understand that many are conjecturing wildly after what Positron said but, had we decided to react more lightly than this, there would have been just as much ruckus.
We haven't specified the exact extent of the measures we are taking against farming and those who have benefited from it, so let's not over-react.
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THAT is the exact perfect reason to over-react, Avatea. Scare tactics that leaves people hanging by a thread. Yes, OF COURSE actions had to be taken, but hangin' up the Damoclese sword coupled with the, pardon the language bloody rediculously lame-(youknowwhat) 5 ani speech is just another really sad example of total lack of PR skills and customer knowledge.
If you do little now, everyone's gonna go, "oh, they just shoot blanks anyway, nothing to worry about", if you use the sledge hammer, the game's dead.
The game slowly died down yesterday. I'm happy that fixed a lot of things, but there's not even people to CHAT with now, let alon play with redside. Ergo, friggin' Travian's more fun now - again! It's rediculous!
Govern by fear, live in fear!
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I say, if you feel that you have abused the MA system enough that you may lose some progress or even your character, then you probably will. If you don't then you're lucky. You knew the farming was wrong when you were doing it, or you wouldn't be worried now, so you really have no recourse for complaint if you get punished.
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That is so wrong philosophically and moralistically on so many levels that it manages to move away from the absurd and into the funny. I would hazard a guess that you've never looked in to ethics.
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Seconded, thank god you didn't live in the old times by that adage, you'd last 10 seconds.
EDIT: Cheers for killing Villains, utterly and completely btw. I applaud you.
Fury
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Problem with images like that is it's quite simple to have a level 50 in 1 hour. Level pact, never log in, let the other partner get to 50, log in.
I guess we'll never know for certain, but I'd like written claims as well as a simple image.
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True enough - I agree. The original post did say that it was MA related but then again I sometimes say that I have a 6-pack... 
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Problem with images like that is it's quite simple to have a level 50 in 1 hour. Level pact, never log in, let the other partner get to 50, log in.
I guess we'll never know for certain, but I'd like written claims as well as a simple image.
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True enough - I agree. The original post did say that it was MA related but then again I sometimes say that I have a 6-pack...
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Sometimes I do have a 6-pack, then I drink them. 
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THAT is the exact perfect reason to over-react, Avatea. Scare tactics that leaves people hanging by a thread. Yes, OF COURSE actions had to be taken, but hangin' up the Damoclese sword coupled with the, pardon the language bloody rediculously lame-(youknowwhat) 5 ani speech is just another really sad example of total lack of PR skills and customer knowledge.
If you do little now, everyone's gonna go, "oh, they just shoot blanks anyway, nothing to worry about", if you use the sledge hammer, the game's dead.
The game slowly died down yesterday. I'm happy that fixed a lot of things, but there's not even people to CHAT with now, let alon play with redside. Ergo, friggin' Travian's more fun now - again! It's rediculous!
Govern by fear, live in fear!
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And what if they'd announced teh specifics? "Why do you punish ME and don't punish ("regular" PLers, old players/new players/those who farmed exactly 1 XP less than I did/badgers/catgirls/ebil marketeers)? That's UNFAIR!!!" Same amount of stink, just of different type, AND less freedom of action.
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Problem with images like that is it's quite simple to have a level 50 in 1 hour. Level pact, never log in, let the other partner get to 50, log in.
I guess we'll never know for certain, but I'd like written claims as well as a simple image.
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True enough - I agree. The original post did say that it was MA related but then again I sometimes say that I have a 6-pack...
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Oooh, can of beer plz!
I tend to agree with Stryke, only the worst offenders are likely to be penalized. (please don't take my 6 levels away and make me go back to Sharkshead, please!! 
)
Overall I think Posi has been a bit lackluster dealing with the issue. He had plenty of chances to stick something into the Message of the Day saying they were aware of issues with the MA and that flagrant PLers / farmers taking advantage faced being penalized for doing so. Part of me thinks that he wanted the 5 year anniversery speeches to look good for news sites and the like that they delayed mentioning the issues with the MA which were obvious to everyone.
Hopefully he did get chewed out by his NCSoft bosses because I14 has been a nightmare in terms of the workload they've dumped upon Customer Services, with the Bases bug (I see our base has vanished again) and now this punishing and policing they'll have to do against people who use the MA for farming.
He's been so quiet about the issue up until now (other than a vague threat in the Test Server meet and greet last week) that suddenly coming out and stating their intent now makes him seem ineffective and slightly dithery as a project manager.
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Just for reference, another thread showed this as an example of not trying too hard in MA but achieving a 50 in a quite extraordinary time.
Just in case you hadn't seen it yet.
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Of wich i already replied, lvl pact and wack 50 mobs, beat my 15 minutes from 1 to 50.
So we got 1 screenshot, thats it? That is what the whole fuzz is about, that 1 person got 50 within hours? Or that player B got lvl1-20 in 20 minutes but took 40+ hours on the remaining lvls?
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How is this relevant? Posi isnt going to be punishing the average user. Its a zero tollerance stance against extreme abuse.
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Relevant to the whole 'omg too fast xp' whinage. Everyone is punching on this '50 in 6 hours', based on what? Nobody here has the exact numbers of lvling in the game, only based their view from what they have seen. (specialy on the EU, you are in a serious minority).
Assumptions and expectations, beat that on the 'fooked up' scale.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
The problem here is we're debating two very different things:
One side is saying that farmers should get smacked in the head hard. Then they explain repeatedly why.
The other side is saying Positron made a bad statement and Paragon has handled this situation badly at a time where handling the situation badly is, well, very bad. Then they go on explaining why they think so.
The thing is we (most of us) pretty much actually agree on most things:
The situation had to be handled.
It should've been handled sooner.
It's been very bad for the game.
My point remains this though: You may think whatever the heck you want about those that abused the Com officer farms, and have/will exploit other parts of the game, but no matter what you say, how you phrase it this was handled poorly at a time where the game can't affort (any more) bad PR. Even farmers pay their bills that pay the devs that we so badly need for new, serious "story" content and other game updates.
You can keep on raging about how you hate the farmers and they deserve anything that might hit them, but due to the way Positrons announcement was phrased no matter what happens, it has been and will be bad for the game.
IMHO Paragon needs to sit down CALMLY, think this over, and more importantly devise a long term strategy for handling crisis situations, and more importantly think well and hard how they handle their PR and customer contacts.
The customer is always right, even when that's not true. ALL the customers, every single one! One very simple reason: They...provide... the green, important pieces of paper called MONEY! Without the "greens" we all get a lot of NOTHING!
Apart from that we're all just arguing for the sake of arguing, and that's fine. What's farming? What's an exploit? All worth debating, but at the moment the REAL issue is stated above!
Wow.. Looks like Posi was serious about coming down hard on farmers.. Let's here it for posi! *Round of applause*
I really hope they wont start datamining who gained too many lvls to fast, that would mean they have less ressources to get I15 ready and that would prolly mean they push it back for a long time.
Concentrate on the Issues to come and make sure you get them ready and better than MA before release, dont waste time and ressources on really meaningless stuff like punishing players retroactively.
That would only pi** off more players, the ones who loose chars due to punishment and the ones who get angry cause of missing content in pushed back issues.
Btw the risk vs reward isnt really working in case of RCO or other mobs.....
Only speficic builds could handle them easily, for the most part exactly the same builds which are used to farm the "normal" farm maps.
I have many chars who die very fast against ritki and i have some who kill them without probs.
Its a matter of powersets and combos how good you can farm and a matter of which mobs you fight, it always was and it even was that way during MA farms.
If they dont want farms to happen, they need to nerf specific powercombos ( most will know which combos i am talking about), otherwise there is no way to stop farming.
Can i farm RCO with a grav/em dom or ninja blade/elec stalker or many other setcombos ? NO
How many powercombos can farm efficiently ? Not many.... MA or no MA
It all comes down to the sets, thats why you saw so many "spefific" powercombos popping out the last weeks.
I dont want that to happen either but then farming wouldnt be a big issue anymore.
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Apart from that we're all just arguing for the sake of arguing, and that's fine.
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No we're not!
Wait...
Nevermind 
Blueside Union: Starblayde (Blaster), Pax Imperia (Tanker), Pax Britannia (Defender)
Redside Union: Natasha Redshade (Stalker)
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Just for reference, another thread showed this as an example of not trying too hard in MA but achieving a 50 in a quite extraordinary time.
Just in case you hadn't seen it yet.
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Of wich i already replied, lvl pact and wack 50 mobs, beat my 15 minutes from 1 to 50.
So we got 1 screenshot, thats it? That is what the whole fuzz is about, that 1 person got 50 within hours? Or that player B got lvl1-20 in 20 minutes but took 40+ hours on the remaining lvls?
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If it was a 1000 screenshots it wouldn't change your position, or mine, but there seemed to be some doubt about whether it was possible or not.
I just wanted to post something that at least appears to show that it had been done at least once and was therefore repeatable.
Sorry if that caused any offence.
SingStars last post speaks truth *Thumbs up
Oh an i'd love a cup of tea
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
Hi board, you don't know me but I have probably played with many of you. I have just registered today to post this message.
Just a bit of background on me: I imported the game from the US and were playing on the US servers before COH came to Europe. I can remember when there was no "mission exit" button and patrolling around Paragon and clicking telephone boxes was considered a mission. So I am a bit of a Veteran, you see
I have seen many good developments and some bad ones. The invention system has to be my favorite addition, with City of Villains a close second, and my least favorite is probably ED.
I was really looking forward to MA, because I consider myself quite creative and wanted to have a bash at making an interesting and enjoyable story. When I14 was released I spent many hours making a 4 mission arc, with an interesting story and carefully created custom bosses. I was very happy with it, and played it several times. But later I stumbled on to a team that were farming a mission with Rikti Com Officers in it. I was using a character that was probably early 20's and by the end of the mission I had picked up an extra 10 levels. Now then, what do you think is going to be more popular: my 4 mission arc with custom bosses and interesting storyline, or a mission where you can level up 10-20 times in a mission? I admit that it took about half a second of being angry, to jumping straight on the bandwagon and leveling up a load of boring, stuck in a rut characters that were sitting at mid 20s. Yes I now have a whole load of newly created level 50's, who would never have gotten there had it not been for MA farming. I have now experienced what it's like to have a War Shade at level 50, and I'm loving it. I have spent approx 600 million on her to make her really special. I am not a fan of melee characters and now I have a scrapper and a tank at early 40s, again I would have not bothered to grind them up to such a high level.
Like many people who play this game, I am in full time employment and don't have time to grind (and it is a grind, especially levels 20-31). I want to come home, kick off my shoes and have a good game; it is my leisure time and I want it to be as pleasurable as possible. MA farming is another facet of enjoyment, along with buying and selling on the auction house, and doing TF's and missions with people we like.
I believe that NC Soft has reacted very badly to a situation that they have created. How difficult would it have been to just nerf the RCO as soon as it was spotted? They did it to the Council spawning pod thing! And what constitutes a farm anyway? And for that matter, what's wrong with farming? If people want to farm let them do it. I've done the TV mish hundereds of times with my dominator. Why? Cos it's fun to take down massive mobs with a super hero. We are super heroes right? Farming is fun to those that enjoy it, it's not everyones cup of tea, but so what?
Although the levels gained from MA farming was totally mad, it was still fun and the level boost was more than welcome. I expected that sooner or later the loophole would be tightened, and com officers would be nerfed (rightly so). What I didn't expect was the threat issued by Posi. He is saying that they are going to "fiddle" with our characters that have gained experience from farming. Oh right, are you indeed? Well since we're making threats here's one to you:
If you so much as look at my level 50 Warshade and restrict her access from me, I will leave the game and never come back. Simple as that! You will lose a loyal subs-paying customer because of your actions. And surely you don't need to be reminded that a certain new superhero MMO is due for release in 2 months time.
I have been with this game for a very long time, I have resisted the lure of WOW, I tried WAR and GW, but none of them compare with the great game of COH, which is still my favorite game of all time. I have tollerated your nerfs up to now, but I will not tollerate you restricting access to my new favorite characters. The power is mine, and I shall wield it in whichever way I desire.
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The problem here is we're debating two very different things:
One side is saying that farmers should get smacked in the head hard. Then they explain repeatedly why.
The other side is saying Positron made a bad statement and Paragon has handled this situation badly at a time where handling the situation badly is, well, very bad. Then they go on explaining why they think so.
The thing is we (most of us) pretty much actually agree on most things:
The situation had to be handled.
It should've been handled sooner.
It's been very bad for the game.
My point remains this though: You may think whatever the heck you want about those that abused the Com officer farms, and have/will exploit other parts of the game, but no matter what you say, how you phrase it this was handled poorly at a time where the game can't affort (any more) bad PR. Even farmers pay their bills that pay the devs that we so badly need for new, serious "story" content and other game updates.
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I quite understand your point, but, look, it's all nice and simple to play backseat driver and bloviate on what PS should or shouldn't do sitting thousands of miles away in our homes/offices/classrooms, not knowing what's really going on inside the studio. It's VERY DAMN EASY, to give advice when you aren't responsible for acting on it, and it's even easier to just say how Posi personally and/or PS suck. I tend to think that devs did all they could, as soon as they could, unless proven otherwise. I don't particularily like their wording, true, but I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, and I don't think they're fools either. Neither do I see better way out of the farming situation this late. Whatever they could do now would backfire one way or the other.
AND LEAVE POSI ALONE!
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Just for reference, another thread showed this as an example of not trying too hard in MA but achieving a 50 in a quite extraordinary time.
Just in case you hadn't seen it yet.
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Of wich i already replied, lvl pact and wack 50 mobs, beat my 15 minutes from 1 to 50.
So we got 1 screenshot, thats it? That is what the whole fuzz is about, that 1 person got 50 within hours? Or that player B got lvl1-20 in 20 minutes but took 40+ hours on the remaining lvls?
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If it was a 1000 screenshots it wouldn't change your position, or mine, but there seemed to be some doubt about whether it was possible or not.
I just wanted to post something that at least appears to show that it had been done at least once and was therefore repeatable.
Sorry if that caused any offence.
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No, no, no, no, that won't do at all!
It should read something like this:
"I'm offended that you're offended by my comment! Sorry? If that caused any offense then my work here is done! Muhahahaha!"
�How do I like my MMOs? I like them the way Paragon Studios used to make them.� - a fitting tribute from kiasa.org
EU, Union mostly.
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Just for reference, another thread showed this as an example of not trying too hard in MA but achieving a 50 in a quite extraordinary time.
Just in case you hadn't seen it yet.
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Of wich i already replied, lvl pact and wack 50 mobs, beat my 15 minutes from 1 to 50.
So we got 1 screenshot, thats it? That is what the whole fuzz is about, that 1 person got 50 within hours? Or that player B got lvl1-20 in 20 minutes but took 40+ hours on the remaining lvls?
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If it was a 1000 screenshots it wouldn't change your position, or mine, but there seemed to be some doubt about whether it was possible or not.
I just wanted to post something that at least appears to show that it had been done at least once and was therefore repeatable.
Sorry if that caused any offence.
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No, no, no, no, that won't do at all!
It should read something like this:
"I'm offended that you're offended by my comment! Sorry? If that caused any offense then my work here is done! Muhahahaha!"
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Dang, still getting used to this new-fangled intrawet thing.
Thanks for the pointers and you did make me laugh
Have a good one Doc
We'd like to apologise for the previous apology and furthermore for this one if it too causes any further offence. We hope that this restores the natural air of ill-will that surrounds this thread and if it doesn't we'd like to apologise once again... or not if that helps...
Welcome to the forum, JF!
That was a very well constructed and thought out post, and I agree with almost everything you said in it.
The only thing I disagree with is where you state that Posi has said they will 'fiddle' with characters.
The use of the word "may" gets him off that particular hook.
Wait and see, I say!
Something needed to be done, and a firm line needed to be taken, but anyone who ragequits (not you specifically) because Posi said "may" is a little daft from my perspective.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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Hi board, you don't know me but I have probably played with many of you. I have just registered today to post this message.
Just a bit of background on me: I imported the game from the US and were playing on the US servers before COH came to Europe. I can remember when there was no "mission exit" button and patrolling around Paragon and clicking telephone boxes was considered a mission. So I am a bit of a Veteran, you see
I have seen many good developments and some bad ones. The invention system has to be my favorite addition, with City of Villains a close second, and my least favorite is probably ED.
I was really looking forward to MA, because I consider myself quite creative and wanted to have a bash at making an interesting and enjoyable story. When I14 was released I spent many hours making a 4 mission arc, with an interesting story and carefully created custom bosses. I was very happy with it, and played it several times. But later I stumbled on to a team that were farming a mission with Rikti Com Officers in it. I was using a character that was probably early 20's and by the end of the mission I had picked up an extra 10 levels. Now then, what do you think is going to be more popular: my 4 mission arc with custom bosses and interesting storyline, or a mission where you can level up 10-20 times in a mission? I admit that it took about half a second of being angry, to jumping straight on the bandwagon and leveling up a load of boring, stuck in a rut characters that were sitting at mid 20s. Yes I now have a whole load of newly created level 50's, who would never have gotten there had it not been for MA farming. I have now experienced what it's like to have a War Shade at level 50, and I'm loving it. I have spent approx 600 million on her to make her really special. I am not a fan of melee characters and now I have a scrapper and a tank at early 40s, again I would have not bothered to grind them up to such a high level.
Like many people who play this game, I am in full time employment and don't have time to grind (and it is a grind, especially levels 20-31). I want to come home, kick off my shoes and have a good game; it is my leisure time and I want it to be as pleasurable as possible. MA farming is another facet of enjoyment, along with buying and selling on the auction house, and doing TF's and missions with people we like.
I believe that NC Soft has reacted very badly to a situation that they have created. How difficult would it have been to just nerf the RCO as soon as it was spotted? They did it to the Council spawning pod thing! And what constitutes a farm anyway? And for that matter, what's wrong with farming? If people want to farm let them do it. I've done the TV mish hundereds of times with my dominator. Why? Cos it's fun to take down massive mobs with a super hero. We are super heroes right? Farming is fun to those that enjoy it, it's not everyones cup of tea, but so what?
Although the levels gained from MA farming was totally mad, it was still fun and the level boost was more than welcome. I expected that sooner or later the loophole would be tightened, and com officers would be nerfed (rightly so). What I didn't expect was the threat issued by Posi. He is saying that they are going to "fiddle" with our characters that have gained experience from farming. Oh right, are you indeed? Well since we're making threats here's one to you:
If you so much as look at my level 50 Warshade and restrict her access from me, I will leave the game and never come back. Simple as that! You will lose a loyal subs-paying customer because of your actions. And surely you don't need to be reminded that a certain new superhero MMO is due for release in 2 months time.
I have been with this game for a very long time, I have resisted the lure of WOW, I tried WAR and GW, but none of them compare with the great game of COH, which is still my favorite game of all time. I have tollerated your nerfs up to now, but I will not tollerate you restricting access to my new favorite characters. The power is mine, and I shall wield it in whichever way I desire.
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Top post, well said.
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I really hope they wont start datamining who gained too many lvls to fast, that would mean they have less ressources to get I15 ready and that would prolly mean they push it back for a long time.
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Funny thing about datamining - if you know what question you want to ask then most of the work can normally be shifted to the machines. It's not actually a dev with a slide rule and abacus going through a memory core bit by bit.
So moving on this could probably be done without any real impact on I15.
Heck IMO it's highly probable that the devs have done their datamine to help them establish what they see as unacceptable already. It wouldn't have been a smart move to announce action will be taken if the devs hadn't had at least a quick look at a sample to ensure that they could easily (and automatically) identify places where action needs to be taken (in their opinion).
The part that's left is running through the arcs/charcaters/accounts applying whatever action needs to be taken against those that are deemed unacceptable - and again that ought to be automated (though it probbaly would involve more dev/GM involvement than the research/datamine stage needed).
EDIT: Of course I expect the devs will have looked for automatic detection of arcs/characters/accounts that catches a few false positives. If they have false negatives then people would just flock to them and start arguing that they were OK as they were left untouched by the devs.
So if you do get hit with some kind of GM action and really don't think that you did anything wrong it'd be worth petitioning/appealing IMO. The line will have been drawn knowing that those who know that they're in-the-wrong probbaly won't bother appealing as they know they'll lose...
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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If it was a 1000 screenshots it wouldn't change your position, or mine, but there seemed to be some doubt about whether it was possible or not.
I just wanted to post something that at least appears to show that it had been done at least once and was therefore repeatable.
Sorry if that caused any offence.
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No worry
But serious, it goes like:
-DUDE SCREW MA, its only for farming massive exp
really that bad? maybe tiny bit blown up?
-No SERIOUS, they all doing lvl 1 to 50 in 6 hours!!
Errr who did?
-They did!
And did you?
-No, but they did!
And who are 'they'?
-This dude on the screenshot!
Ok, and who are 'they' apart from the dude on the screenshot?
-Well, the others!
Err.. name 1?
-Well.. er.. WELL POSI SOOKZ0RZ!!
Ok..
At this point all of a sudden 2 others joined the 'OMG NERF0RZ MA' bandwagon, apart from the fact they didnt even know where the building was.
This was 99% based on a conversation yesterday with a tanker in our party.
If the MA has such a huge impact on the playerbase, they would have taken it offline within hours, or even the day after. Clearly they chosen not to, only to bring minor changes and continue datamine the 'usage' of MA.
At this point we have to split the MA usage into 'farming' and into 'exploit abuse'. From what i've seen its the latter that was causing the exp-boom, not the first one. Now if they adres the last one, it will be all ok again. Farming is part of the game, this include the bridging and perma46 solutions. Already several mobs have been removed, eventualy shrinking it down to a 'more common' system.
The only difference, specialy on the EU, nobody ever got in contact with such 'farming valore', unlike the 3 PI zones on Freedom (for example), majority didnt even know the speed of the 'diehard' farmers or that you could even level so fast (with the 4 lvl gap).
Oh well, next month it'll be all over and we can play in peace again.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
The only thing they need to look at datamining is the earnings and put a cutter for them as I told at Avatea's thread.
They prefer not so I guess that either they afraid that code will break, either they want to play hide and seek with players...
As an example, if a system like this was in place, CoP would never needed to be removed...
Well, here's the thing, there's NO QUESTION they could've taken down the MA. Would we be upset about it? Hell yeah!
Would it be better than leaving it up and issuing vague threats to the whole players base? Hell yeah!
I don't want another CoP fiasco, believe me, but this has already turned out to be a bigger one. The 5th speech and this together is worse than ED, pvp changes and CoP put together, and you are right of course, whatever they do it's gonna be seen as "wrong" by a lot of people.
...ergo handle with care! Not a nuke, not a bull dozer, don't rush in with a bunch of tanks and start foot stomping. and don't use the chatterbox to tell everyone how powerful you are and you're gonna show who's yer daddy'oh!
Once again, it's not so much WHAT they do, but HOW they go about doing it that really, really sets me off.
Now, I'm gonna go off and start a new thread hoping to bring parts of the discussion away from this thread:
Thread starts with: What is an exploit?
Hopefully we can divert that discussion from this one?
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I only hear people yelling about the 'scrath 6 hours', but all those have read so, heard so or even assume so. Never i speak someone that actualy made 6 hours on a _avarage_ team. Not those min-maxed teams that focus 1000% on fast exp, but just a picked up group trying to get some exp.
Only devs can see the time it took the recent 50s to hit 50, i dont believe the majority of those will even be close to 6 hours. (apart, pre MA 18 hours was possible already).
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Just for reference, another thread showed this as an example of not trying too hard in MA but achieving a 50 in a quite extraordinary time.
Just in case you hadn't seen it yet.