Posi on Abusing Mission Architect
By
2wabbits,
Posted on: 2009-05-05 13:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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The devs are responsible whether or not they are right or wrong. Irrespective of whether you love farming, dont care or hate it THEY have introduced a devisive update which has split the community.
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I think your right the responsibility is with the Devs.
The Devs chose to develop architect.
The Devs suspected that it mite be abused.
The Devs chose to release it even when at least one player (I'm sure there was more) reported a exploit.
The Devs even tho they were aware of the exploit did nothing for almost a month. (other than spawn communication officers in atalas using the protest emote)
When the Devs finally decided to do something a statement was made stating.
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Players that have abused the reward system egregiously may lose benefits they have gained - leading up to and perhaps including losing access to the characters power-leveled in this fashion.
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yet there is no definition given.
In fact if we go back and look at previous statements be positron well even see that he said it would be possible to level from 1 to 50 using soly the mission architect that's exactly what some people have done.
so what did they do that was wrong?
was picking a mission using the mission architect system wrong?
Nah that would defeat the entire purpose of the system.
Maybe it was doing the same mission over and over again? Except if you weren't allowed to repeat the missions why did they continue to appear to you there wasn't even a warning saying don't repeat missions.
Maybe it was the killing of a single mob type that that was within that mission but that was the mission.
So what did the mission player do wrong? they made use of the mission architect as it was set out.
So it must have been the mission designers surly?
but wait dose anything say you cant crate a custom group consisting of only one mob? Don't think so and again if your not supposed to do that why not program the system to force the placing of more than one mob type?
Maybe your not allowed to place certain mobs on certain maps? But again no instructions saying you cant.
So what exactly did the mission designer do wrong they used architect to design a mission they could share with the community. Is this not the intention of mission architect to allow us the player to design missions our only guide lines being.
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* NCsoft has the right to ban any mission that violates the Rules of Conduct or User Agreement:
o Please click on the aforementioned links for full details. Parodies and derivative works are not allowed.
* NCsoft has the right to ban any mission that contains words that attempt to bypass the Profanity filter. Repeated violations by an author may result in account closure.
* NCsoft has the right to ban any mission and author that use the Mission Architect system for solicitation of business or advertisement of commercial services or activities.
* NCsoft reserves the right to ban any missions that contain any exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages. Players and/or authors that advertise exploitable missions through our forums, in-game chat system or through the Mission Architect system may be banned from the Mission Architect System or may have their game account closed.
* NCsoft reserves the right to remove or modify any item, NPC, Mission Map or any other element related to the Mission Architect system for any reason.
o Mission Architect changes may invalidate Published mission, in which case the author should edit their Published mission to preserve its rating. Unpublishing an invalid mission will result in loss of any earned ratings.
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So were not allowed to brake the Rules of Conduct or User Agreement ok fair enuf.
Were not bypass the profanity filter again fair enuff seems pretty clear.
We cant use MA for the solicitation of business or advertisement of commercial services or activities. Again that seem pretty clear.
then we get to
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NCsoft reserves the right to ban any missions that contain any exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages. Players and/or authors that advertise exploitable missions through our forums, in-game chat system or through the Mission Architect system may be banned from the Mission Architect System or may have their game account closed.
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Say what? so i get the don't advertise them bit but whats a statistical advantage then?
Why not give us a proper definition now i think in this case there talking about to much XP per hour. But how much XP per hour is to much? Whats the norm? what are they using as a base line? I've been on teams running mission that have seen me maybe lvl up 2 or 3 time in a night is that a statistical advantage and if it is, is it ok because i wasn't doing it in mission architect?
I mean dose this statistical advantage thing only apply to mission architect or dose it apply across the game if me and a mate team up one of us on a low lvl character the other on a 50 are we braking some rule?
Please if your going to give us rules make them clear so at least we as player know where we stand.
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On a side note, every other game developer makes statements, or releases, or plain old messages. Positron makes a 'global address'. Got a superhero complex much, have we?
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Haaaaaaaaaahahahahaha! Yeah, it's Positron who's petty. Not the bandwagon taking umbridge at random acts of grammar.
Look out! He's got a dictionary! We're all going to be...*flip, flip, flip*...despoiled! Yeah, like that one. FLEE THE DESPOILER!
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
While Posi's dictionary is being mentioned, what on earth is a Meow mission?
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While Posi's dictionary is being mentioned, what on earth is a Meow mission?
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euphemism for comm officer farm, mostly used US side, I think.
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Obviously I can only speak for myself here, but I think that if there really is a split, it is not caused by "divisive" content (MA) but by a few people in the community treating a simple matter of adjusting the game balance like a personal insult.
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Adjusting game mechanics is one thing. If they nerf NRG/NRG blasters, which my main toon is, to the point of being nothing more than a guy with flashlights on his wrists, then I'll either keep playing that toon and be damned, or find some other way to play him.
Nerf my NRG blaster specifically because I've been playing the game? Now that is a personal insult. Vaguely threatening to nerf my blaster who, thankfully, is in no sense an "exceptional, conspicuous, outstanding, most usually in a negative fashion" abuser of the MA, is also a personal insult.
This is not paying other people to PL a toon, this is not buying Inf from other players (I've actually seen "But I gotta farm to earn money [sic] to buy enhancements and change my costume!" in-game). They gave us a much-vaunted, highly-advertised and released way-too-early feature, which I found made the game fun because as a usually solo player (and all the worse of for it) I could get a full, balanced and varied team fairly quickly to play with gusto and great banter, felling enemies left right and centre.
Blueside Union: Starblayde (Blaster), Pax Imperia (Tanker), Pax Britannia (Defender)
Redside Union: Natasha Redshade (Stalker)
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At least the community which can be bothered to post about it.
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Some of us haven't posted because:
1) The devs haven't done anything yet
2) When they do, it's not clear what it'll be
3) To a fair degree this thread isn't so much a debate as separate groups repeatedly restating their entrenched positions
I suspect that in the circumstances some people haven't posted because there doesn't seem to be a lot extra they can usefully add.
Suggesting that not posting means people "can't be bothered" is really just asking for another heated division to be opened up.
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Well, should you be bothered by it? As avarage player, would it affect you that someone has 5 lvl50s now, or a new player in his trial got his 50? Those handfull of bad parties?
The irony kicks in when people yell about 'newbs' at 50, while i still remember i didnt know untill lvl27 that i could replace my enhancements by any other 'color'. (and by exp curve, back then it is comparable by lvl50 now).
You can make yet another 50 pages about this, with repeated stories how bad and how sucky Posi may be on his PR, it doesnt help, it doesnt matter.
I am more worried on long term issues, this is just a issue for the time being. New forums, new game engine, new features, stuff that can go into the future and keep this game interesting. I'm rather happy this happens, all those meeeh people now finaly have made the choice to leave, giving fresh new blood into the community by the MA, thats good.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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On a side note, every other game developer makes statements, or releases, or plain old messages. Positron makes a 'global address'. Got a superhero complex much, have we?
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Haaaaaaaaaahahahahaha! Yeah, it's Positron who's petty. Not the bandwagon taking umbridge at random acts of grammar.
Look out! He's got a dictionary! We're all going to be...*flip, flip, flip*...despoiled! Yeah, like that one. FLEE THE DESPOILER!
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Har. Har.
All they, and we, have got to go on is his words. I've said it before, and will say it again.
Posi needs better PR. Perhaps NC can pay for a course?.
Blueside Union: Starblayde (Blaster), Pax Imperia (Tanker), Pax Britannia (Defender)
Redside Union: Natasha Redshade (Stalker)
I may have to eat my words later, but I seriously doubt they will reset every toon that has ever joined a farming mission!
What they will probably do is do their best to stop people from abusing the MA system to create farms. Which to me sounds fair enough.
Of course I cannot tell anyone if they should or should not be offended - but in the tanker nerf I saw people who also felt it was just targeted against them personally.
It is the same now - not individuals are being singled out, this will affect groups who behaved in a certain way - which by the way was clearly marked as "wrong" from the beginning!
And finally I fail to see what is the problem with losing the benefits of 1 or 2 hours farming. As I understand, that is all there is - there won't be a shame-board with the server's biggest farmers. O.o
Anyway, I think that maybe it would be better to see what actually happens and then decide based on facts rather than suspicion and assumptions.
Zoser
<- Please click here to find out how you can help!GLOBAL @zoser
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Anyway, I think that maybe it would be better to see what actually happens and then decide based on facts rather than suspicion and assumptions.
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And nonstop insulting posi to be added on the last part 
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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Anyway, I think that maybe it would be better to see what actually happens and then decide based on facts rather than suspicion and assumptions.
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And nonstop insulting posi to be added on the last part
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I missed that one, thanks Syn!
Zos
<- Please click here to find out how you can help!GLOBAL @zoser
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And nonstop insulting posi to be added on the last part
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Can I go after Statesman instead? He wears a funnier helmet.
Blueside Union: Starblayde (Blaster), Pax Imperia (Tanker), Pax Britannia (Defender)
Redside Union: Natasha Redshade (Stalker)
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And nonstop insulting posi to be added on the last part
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Can I go after Statesman instead? He wears a funnier helmet.
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Agreed, but Statesman-bashing is not so nicely controversial - almost everyone hates him.
And incidentally - it is Statesman (J. Emmett), who is doing the CO, so people will have fun ... >
Zos
<- Please click here to find out how you can help!GLOBAL @zoser
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And nonstop insulting posi to be added on the last part
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Can I go after Statesman instead? He wears a funnier helmet.
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Agreed, but Statesman-bashing is not so nicely controversial - almost everyone hates him.
And incidentally - it is Statesman (J. Emmett), who is doing the CO, so people will have fun ... >
Zos
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Makes you wonder if they had any creative control, comic-book wise, over their characters. Is Statesman a prat because Jack Emmett is too, or is that heading down the lines of S.M. Stirling's "There is a technical, literary term for those who mistake the opinions and beliefs of characters in a novel for those of the author. The term is 'idiot.'"
Blueside Union: Starblayde (Blaster), Pax Imperia (Tanker), Pax Britannia (Defender)
Redside Union: Natasha Redshade (Stalker)
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Can I go after Statesman instead? He wears a funnier helmet.
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Feel free to pick anyone you like, but it just wont get you anywhere. Sure posi may not did the best stuff _in your pov_ but it doesnt give anyone the right to go bash him along the last 5 big topics about this issue.
Morelikely US side will take the EU peeps less serious, if al they can do is reposting the same stuff over and over and insulting posi while they can.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
I think if we start discussing ex-employees of NCSOFT, they will close this thread fairly quickly.
[Edited my other comments to avoid further derailing this one.]
Zos
<- Please click here to find out how you can help!GLOBAL @zoser
To be honest the Stateside version of this topic has more hubbabaloo in it then the EU version...and it's twice as long, so I don't think we have to worry about them taking us less seriously going by their own postings.
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
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Can I go after Statesman instead? He wears a funnier helmet.
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Feel free to pick anyone you like, but it just wont get you anywhere. Sure posi may not did the best stuff _in your pov_ but it doesnt give anyone the right to go bash him along the last 5 big topics about this issue.
Morelikely US side will take the EU peeps less serious, if al they can do is reposting the same stuff over and over and insulting posi while they can.
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All my months of subscription, box purchase and booster pack purchases won't add up to anywhere near a week's (maybe a day? two days?) worth of Posi's wages, but I can still use my right to complain in a place that they'll not pay attention to about the quality of service and direct my complaints to the people providing the service, who do score points for actually having a nameable presence.
Futility ftw!
Blueside Union: Starblayde (Blaster), Pax Imperia (Tanker), Pax Britannia (Defender)
Redside Union: Natasha Redshade (Stalker)
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Well, should you be bothered by it? As avarage player, would it affect you that someone has 5 lvl50s now, or a new player in his trial got his 50? Those handfull of bad parties?
The irony kicks in when people yell about 'newbs' at 50, while i still remember i didnt know untill lvl27 that i could replace my enhancements by any other 'color'. (and by exp curve, back then it is comparable by lvl50 now).
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Whaat? You can do that? (kidding.) That said, I agree that getting to 50 isn't difficult now, and you're still rather new when you do. (it took me about 3 months of rather casual play, if you don't count all the breaks I've taken. I think it could be done in 2 months or even faster, without prior knowledge and obvious PL. (of course if there happens to be a team desperate enough to SK you 10 levels, that can speed things up, but these things don't happen that often.) ) But, getting to 50 in 3 months, in a month even, and getting it in A DAY, without using multiboxing, etc. are different things. Quantity has quality of its own. Facing different mobs in different team setups during "normal" levelling, even speedy one, you learn things you totally miss if you just get your 50 for essentially doing nothing.
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You can make yet another 50 pages about this, with repeated stories how bad and how sucky Posi may be on his PR, it doesnt help, it doesnt matter.
I am more worried on long term issues, this is just a issue for the time being. New forums, new game engine, new features, stuff that can go into the future and keep this game interesting. I'm rather happy this happens, all those meeeh people now finaly have made the choice to leave, giving fresh new blood into the community by the MA, thats good.
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Well, I pretty much agree. I'm not particularily happy about the leaving epidemics, TBH, but I doubt it would hurt _game itself_. And the current issue? Heh, WoW had Bad Blood exploit. We have this. Both problems (and dev's reactions) weren't something respective dev teams can be proud of, but... Bad Blood didn't kill WoW, neither will this kill CoX. IMO, of course.
( Reply is not towards 3dent )
With Avatea's post in mind, it's seems theres a somewhat debatable agreement about the whole thing: that it's too vague. It just sounds like a 'Show of Force' to be honest, which I think is perfectly acceptable however, the whole 'threatening' to do this and that is going to dent your subscribers period. If the game wasn't meant to be like the way it is, then it shouldn't have been allowed LIVE in the first place. Which is -1 point to the devs'.
They said it first hand they knew it'd happen, so why put it LIVE, hell the idea should have been alpha/betaed/ x 100000 times till Issue 100.
Oh, and people please stop telling others what they can and can not do with their money - personally some of you are taking the ol' mighty and justicial route because your not in "trouble" and get to go " I told you so".
I'm a subscriber, my say is as valid as yours but it doesn't justify my opinion to be better than yours. Vice-versa.
Fury
As I understand it, the biggest objections to this are as follows:
1) That we are not being told the criteria that may result in sanctions against players.
2) That the devs released content into the game that was ripe for exploitation and waited until a few weeks down the line before taking significant action against said exploitation. (Please note: I consider the argument "it was in the game already, so the devs obviously wanted it to happen, you can't punish me now!" to be a spurious argument on par with "I was able to steal all of the stored salvage from that Coalitioned SG, so the devs obviously wanted it to happen, you can't punish me now!")
If I have this wrong, please correct me.
However, assuming I'm not wrong, here are my responses:
1) The devs and Customer Services have never disclosed the specific criteria that may result in sanctions against players. Why should they start now? They would be opening the floodgates for long-fogotten complaints and matters, and ramp up their workload by an insane amount.
2) It's been said a million times (hyperbole intended): Nobody forced anyone to PL using MA. The devs stated at I14 release that they would come down on anyone who chose to "gain a statistical advantage" (for the record, that means that if you demonstrably have higher bonuses (from enhancements and set bonuses) for less time spent in game earning inf than "the average character", based on a set of criteria that we, the players, will never get to see). A few extra points on this matter - there is no evidence that the devs will penalise people for non-MA PLing; simply playing a farm arc a time or two will not produce the same statistical advantage as has been seen in the MA; you will have opportunity to appeal, but they have the evidence. People who played farming arcs will be scrutinised, for sure, but until or unless the devs actually do something to the characters, it's not worth getting your panties in a twist about.
Right now the mission statement is simple: The devs are going to cull farming arcs. Big time. If I had a farm arc up right now, I'd unpublish it right away to ensure the slot doesn't get locked. Then they will get down to individual character cases, but until they do, is it really that much of a bother? For all we know, nobody who has posted here will be affected.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
I think its more the retroactive nature of the ruling that's annoying people as much as anything else.
Its like taking kids into a sweet shop telling them they can have anything they want waiting till there eating there chosen sweet and then telling them of for having that one.
Had the dev's just come along and said "right as of now any one doing the following is gonna face the consequences" that's fair enuff but coming along and saying oh by the way that thing that may or may not have been against the EULA and that we all new you were doing is actually agenst the EULA so your band even tho you did it before we decided it was against the EULA. doing that is just going to P*** people of
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Its like taking kids into a sweet shop telling them they can have anything they want waiting till there eating there chosen sweet and then telling them of for having that one.
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I'd say it's more like taking kids into a sweet shop, telling them they can have anything they want, then coming back 5 minutes later to find they've fetched their dads' wheelbarrows and are filling them with sweets.
You shouldn't leaving kids unattended in sweetshops in the first place...but if you do and find they've taken liberties, you tell them to put stuff back on the shelf.
I think this is a nice solution. The devs could spend the next five years playing whack-a-mole as powerlevellers moved from exploit to exploit in the MA, and all it would do is detract effort from other things and annoy people as the MA was constantly fiddled with and arcs became invalid. A policy statement against power levelling and a meta-level mechanism for dealing with abuse (locking MA slots) was really the only way to go.
It reminds me of the way that 'Battlefield 1942' dealt with stat padding. The onus was on the players to play the game fairly and not to abuse the system. Players who stat padded were reported and dealt with firmly.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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I'd say it's more like taking kids into a sweet shop, telling them they can have anything they want, then coming back 5 minutes later to find they've fetched their dads' wheelbarrows and are filling them with sweets.
You shouldn't leaving kids unattended in sweetshops in the first place...but if you do and find they've taken liberties, you tell them to put stuff back on the shelf.
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That is the best analogy I've seen yet, very apt.
Thing is, the kids have already eaten the sweets and if they get their stomachs pumped, they're gonna run away from home because of parental abuse
Blueside Union: Starblayde (Blaster), Pax Imperia (Tanker), Pax Britannia (Defender)
Redside Union: Natasha Redshade (Stalker)
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At least the community which can be bothered to post about it.
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Some of us haven't posted because:
1) The devs haven't done anything yet
2) When they do, it's not clear what it'll be
3) To a fair degree this thread isn't so much a debate as separate groups repeatedly restating their entrenched positions
I suspect that in the circumstances some people haven't posted because there doesn't seem to be a lot extra they can usefully add.
Suggesting that not posting means people "can't be bothered" is really just asking for another heated division to be opened up.