Maybe they're trying to be Scrankers.
There is no "right" or "wrong".
Personally I find taunt to be an invaluable tool when tanking and by and large I tank better with it than without it. That said, there are a large number of people who see it as useless (Probably because it doesn't do damage, buff or debuff) and refuse to take it; some of these people are scranking anyway so it makes no difference either way, others are actually tanking, in which case it may make a difference depending on their skill level, powersets and build.
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I'm not anti-taunt, but I don't think it's compulsary. Great power, but some people don't need it.
You don't have to team with anyone your not happy with.
What a person can and can't do in a game often depends on who is or who isn't around them, and I am talking about players not just sets. By taking taunt your potentially adding flexibility, I say potentially because how good people are or get to be with it varies. Not every trick in the book is on the internet about it, it has been to my dismay somewhat the least looked at.
I'd like to 100% stand by this; ideally, as a tank, any type of, given all the power choices and slotting arrangements available, theoretically, given 1 of each of the main ATs, you shouldn't need to be picky about what power-sets are in team to support you or anyone else for anything in PvE anyone extra for support purposes is a bonus. There should always be a way for you to tank somit given different team mixes, however though, there are some people may look like say a bubbler but in fact be a blaster with nothing much to grant on other people and so despite the mix you may as a team lack the ability of doing something with that bubbler that you wouldn't with another. Also someone with 50 levels of the right powers from a given power set may never of min-maxxed in there life nor got into game mechanics and as such, an attempt to pull tricks can turn into a practice run. Taunt can be used to reduce the fussiness. I prefer people to find things out for themselves on the sort of things that can be pulled off.
I rate tanks on intentions not abilities but then taunt is the most selfless power to take.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
As already said I think it more depends on someones commitment to absorb damage for there team than what powers are chosen that will decide wether a tank is someone who allows you to safely open up and use your charecter to the best of it's abilities or one that causes team wipes because he's stuck in a corner having a 1 on 1 with some worthless lieutent while all hell is breaking loose.
I can't say I agree. For that level of commitment, taunt is needed and therefore what powers are chosen does matter.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Depends entirely on your build and intentions.
If you've a lot of AoEs and don't plan on fighting things from range, then no you don't need taunt. Holding aggro on much-higher-level AVs is about the only thing that actually requires it. I've experimented with taking Taunt off my INV/SS's power tray... and for virtually all normal team situations my Taunt Aura and Footstomp hold aggro just fine. Taunt's only real use is to pull a far-away mob off a squishy without moving.
For me I dont habitually check peoples builds as soon as they join a team.
If i am teaming with a tanker the only thing I take notice of is how well they are holding the aggro for the team. It is perfectly possible to hold aggro without taunt due to skill and build.
On the same lines though it is perfectly possible for a tanker with taunt to not hold the aggro through lack of skill.
That is for me the important factors. If a tank is plainly not holding aggro I dont think there is any problem of discussing this with them. If they dont like filling the role of tanker dont roll a tank, or at very least dont join teams expecting a tanker.
I have been a musician for some time and I think a suitable analogy for a tanker is the drummer. The drummer is always the building block for a band. A band with a bad drummer will always be a bad band no matter the skill of the other band members. And vice versa a band with a great drummer will push the whole band to a higher level.
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Depends entirely on your build and intentions.
If you've a lot of AoEs and don't plan on fighting things from range, then no you don't need taunt. Holding aggro on much-higher-level AVs is about the only thing that actually requires it. I've experimented with taking Taunt off my INV/SS's power tray... and for virtually all normal team situations my Taunt Aura and Footstomp hold aggro just fine. Taunt's only real use is to pull a far-away mob off a squishy without moving.
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In melee a taunt aura and footstomp won't always hold aggro just fine. Not every taunt aura is autohit and some taunt auras won't even have a long enough effect. I have been under situations of slow effects, -tohit, -acc, placated, phased, -recharged, end drain etc etc and then there are foes that tp, theres a nice list of things that can happen to different types of tanks and each type of tanker has to learn to cope with what they got or is lucky enough to have certain powersets around them. AVs and multiples of AVs that have legs and travel powers, laugh at puny gauntlet and aura for taunt duration.
Not every tank will be just like playing an Invuln and even invulns can do with taunt at times especially as they can be end drained and unstoppable at the same time.
Getting through the game avoiding extremes, or by being with ftw sets that compensate for ones lackings can be done tho.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I didnt take tank on m Fire/Fire tank for two reasons - Fire Aura is not the strongest defence and so being surrounded by large amounts of mobs *can* be asking for trouble. Also Blazing Aura, Combustion and Fire Sword Circle geat and hold aggro pretty well 
I am currently levelling a Stone/Fire tank who will be getting Taunt though as I have no Auras to keep aggro and hopefully Stone is defensible enough to withstand large mobs!
Golden-Phoenix - Lvl 50 Fire/Fire Tank
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At the end of the day it's a matter of personal choice, a player can take taunt because they use it effectively to pull mobs away or they feel it's a useful power and they'll use it. Whereas others may choose to skip taunt and find that they're taunt aura holds perfectly well. Personally I've skipped taunt on my INV/SS for concept reasons, My character isn't the sort to draw attention to herself, although she'll take hits for the team anyday. Also I believe that there are more interesting powers to take instead, I could skip taunt and get an extra passive for defence of invest in a few more ancillary powers. It's really just a matter of choice and personal taste, you don't become a bad tanker because you chose not to have taunt.
i didnt take taunt untill lvl 49 on my icetank, but IMO no tank holds agro like a icetank, Chilling embrace and icicles just pwn, i used taunt mostly just to get bosses/AV´s agro.
Proper built icetanks makes me feel safe when on a squishy.
Not saying other sets are bad, just IMO icetanks tend to hold agro better.
IMO you are a "bad" tanker if you dont take taunt. But not a bad player.
I have no problem with a tank CHOOSING not taking taunt, its simply he/she will drop down several notches in my "Invite" rating scale. Sure, good play and good company are very important, but all other things being equal, a tauntless tank is unpleasant and will not be oft invited, and thats just not my opinion either.
But thats the payoff. Many so called "boring" powers, like taunt or leadership pools are just devastatingly useful / powerful. So if you choose to take them, they you will be more popular.
Aside from that, when I am playing with people I know, I would be plain embarressed not to take taunt, however squishy I am.
You can probably forget being invited to hard TFs like ITF, STF, maybe LGTF aswell, unless its for a "pity" slot, or in a group of freinds.
IMO no good or bad ness to taking taunt
personally i like it - but I only take it when I feel I can handle the aggro that comes with it - ie usually teens or early 20s
does it make u a bad tank if u dont take it? hell no. But before I can afford to get taunt on a toon - I make sure that I am aware abt wot is happening to team - think wot shannon said abt intention is very good. Nobody said that every tank has to be a team tank. I like team tanking. so i make sure I can pull of aggro off a squishy when needed - be it with taunt or a punchvoke.
think of it this way is a tank who has taunt but never uses it any better than a tank w/o taunt who grabs aggro of you when needed?
its aint abt the power selection, its abt the player and how he wants to play and how he sees his role in the team (replace he/his/him where ever appropriate )
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I believe that there are more interesting powers to take instead, I could skip taunt and get an extra passive for defence
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A passive is more interesting than taunt?
Taunt control isn't simply about numbers ie duration of taunt, range of taunt and the fact that in pve its guaranteed to hit. Its a power that you can use well from knowing even more numbers ie an enemies entire attack chain, travel power, mezz resistance, and what other peoples powersets are and aren't capable off. Far more interesting imo but then I may look at powersets more than I realize.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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its aint abt the power selection, its abt the player and how he wants to play and how he sees his role in the team (replace he/his/him where ever appropriate )
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Nevertheless, not taking taunt makes you less effective.
Aside from throwing away your most useful tool, not taking tank is, IMO, a tatoo on your forehead saying "I dont care about other players".
Good point about *when* to take it, though. Certainly it would be reasonable (perhaps not advisable, especially for invincibility tanks) to skip it until your d efences are fully fleshed out with SO's: ie level 22.
I have to say i didnt expect this mix of views. Reading it i agree with many people. I think taunt is a choice, but as a personal prefference i would ask for a tanker with taunt in a standard team. This comes from the fact that i have played both tankers and empaths. From a tanking point of view, being able to save the team its very useful, and from an empathy point it reduces casualties.
But for PvP builds perhaps taunt could be seen as pointless? The main person which spurred me to post this was planning on PvP so didnt take taunt. On the flip side however he was planning to team himself to 50, but often wasnt welcome because of his anti-taunt ways. So again, i can see that many people dont want it and thats fair enough, but as a prefference i would take it for team play as it does make a difference.
I also have the choice not to choose players like this in my teams, imo a tauntless tank is a useless tank.
Funny how many people say tankers without taunt are stupid or lousy. (less effective).
My 38 tanker never took, never will take taunt. Why? I dont party big teams. In 3-4 people party its really easy to keep agro by just attacking and a taunt aura.
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My first character was a tank. My first 50 is a tank that took taunt at level 49. I have since respeced it in earlier for slotting purposes. I don't ever remember being invited to team only if I had taunt. I only recall one instance of complaint at my poor aggro management, and that was due to using Granite Armor and having no movement speed. My new tank will not take taunt until I can survive more than 3 enemy at once. As a Blaster I didn't blame the tank when I died, I blamed myself for shooting the wrong attack/enemy.
Stone Pharoah:Tanker Lvl 50 Stone/SS
Robospike:Mastermind Lvl 50 Robotics/FF/Mu
Static Burn:Blaster Lvl 50 Fire/Electric/Munitions
Hidden Burn:Tanker Lvl 50 Fire/Dark
More on the way...
Personally speaking I'm always for speccing taunt, even if it's just for occasional use to pull agro back off the squishy one's. From the moment I rolled a tank I knew it wasn't going to top damage metre's or for that matter have many people in teams listen.
What does matter is how aware the tank is of the rest of the team and their agro. Knowing the sets you've chosen and how capable you are of using these abilities to manage the given situation.
After playing as long as some of us have you'll see people do crazy things, if it goes wrong then you put it down to experience and if it works then great
We won't change people's playing styles by posting here sadly, but hopefully its somewhere to start for anyone that wants to be a tank in the true sense.
Ive tanked my main all the way to 50 before i repsecced in taunt eventually. During all that time I only had one (1) complaint off not being able to hold aggro... and that was from a triggerhappy blaster who for the remainder of that team only had to wait one more second for me to consolidate aggro before running in and blasting off his nova. After that, the team ran smoothly again.
In the end, i specced in taunt as it opened up a whole new line of possible duties for me to perform. Like tanking hami or keeping the arachnos flyer of the team as they fought LR in the STF.
So when anyone says that can tank fine without taunt, i dont get that knee-jerk reaction of "f00l, g3t t4unt n0w!!" but gives them then chance to prove themselves to show that they can do without. Of course.. there are some sets I'd prefer having taunt if they are gonna tank. Like a Stone in Granite (as they cant move around quickly enough with their mudpots) or Willpower (as the aura has notoriously short duration)
If anything makes my kettle run over is the invuln tank who HAVE taunt but not Invincibility... these are the tanks i just want to strangle..
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I have seen plenty of tanks without an aura but with taunt, without taunt but with an aura and still teamed with them. As long as I look to find out before rather than after and play to suit its alright as I adapt my play. I may see a lot going wrong as a result of them not having taunt whilst for them it all looks rosy.
I don't know what teams they are usually in or whether or not they've seen a team but the no aura does make me slap forehead but then they maybe a pvp tank. I think its better to level one then pvp it personally but some can't wait for bloody bay.
As a scrapper (all have 6 slotted confront at 50) and as a kheldian (again 6 slots) I have times of suggesting to tauntless tanks to sit down as it was the better thing, they lacked the flexibility to offer the best method for the team mix and it was either sit down or keep getting us team wiped. It can happen but the tool is on offer to all tanks.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Funny how many people say tankers without taunt are stupid or lousy. (less effective).
My 38 tanker never took, never will take taunt. Why? I dont party big teams. In 3-4 people party its really easy to keep agro by just attacking and a taunt aura.
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Thats a fair point. It becomes more useful the larger the team is.
I would add a point though. Taunt ups the teams DPS considerably.
When a few loose bozo's start wailing on a squishy, that squishy (usually) changes focus to the loose ones instead of maximising his / her potential on the large mass of bozo's around the tank. The team looses an immense amount of efficacy at those moments. A simple taunt will instantly remedy the situation, and again the team starts functioning optimally.
I must say after a long time playing this game, I have come to the conclusion that the old "Tank in, grab agro, herd, unleash AoE" method is actually sub-optimal. With agro and AoE caps it is not particularly effective except in (maybe) small teams.
I think people still cling to the past. I can say that in slick (biggish) teams with freinds we simply plow far far faster by quickly eradicating mobs one group at a time, not wasting time "herding".
Now this does involve slickness. The tank would not wait for every single last enemy to fall before jumping in to the next group. And it does involve players reacting intelligently. And it does involve taking taunt. But it completely eradicates the whole "herd" thing with barely and perceptible loss in kill rate. Just a thought, anyway.
Lately i have been meeting more and more tankers who do not have taunt, do not want taunt and will not get taunt. All insist that it is an "unnecissary power" and that it is a waste. Some of these people have also been playing a fair few months. But i completly disagree with these people and think a tanker really does need taunt. So my question is- are these anti taunt tankers right or wrong?