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Yes this also applies to taunts duration/range
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Yes, I included it.
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But I can in effect be in two places at once within that 70 ft
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But no more than 2 places in a 4 second interval. You taunt once, and have to wait around 4 seconds assuming it is slotted with recharges before you can taunt again. If you move at all , your WP aura will no longer be taunting those mobs Not true you just need to move slower mobs will still follow u. In the same 4 seconds CE can taunt in 8 different places, and still have all the mobs affected.
4 taunt aura ticks plus 2 taunts in 4 secs = 6 places
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Here you negate your own arguement with your answer (WP only effective in melee range but tanks can move)
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No, you have failed to understand. If a WP tank moves, the mobs And seems you were pedantic about my maths what you should insert here is 'no longer' else your statement makes no sense, see we can all be pedantic if we so choose in melee range are not taunted any more because it has a taunt duration of 1.25 seconds. If an Ice tank moves the mobs which are no longer in melee range will continue to be taunted up to 27 seconds later.
Possibly depending on how carefuly/ quickly you move
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According to my calculations 2 for a WP with taunt 1 for an Ice tank
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Your calculations are way out, unless you assume all 16 mobs are standing within 8 feet of each other, which never happens. Sorry my calculations are just fine you claimed the quickest taunt of 16 mobs this is the simplest calculation for such and frankly doesn't assume all mobs together as on the WP side at least 5 can be anywhere within 70 ft
And as an aside both tanks would in practice be using punchvoke as well pretty much negating you whole WP ineffective aura arguement.
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The mobs will not follow you quickly, so within 4 seconds you're not really going to get anywhere. Also, the ice tank will have much more time to use punchvoke since he's not spending time taunting.
Judging by the edits of earlier posts there seems to have been an awful lot of taunting going on in this thread already perhaps it's better if we all agree to disagree. As someone who started as a soloer, and did a bit of scranking when invited to a team, when I finally learnt the concept behind a tanks team responsabilities I took Taunt and have never looked back, to me now not taking taunt would be like missing my right arm! but as tanks aren't essential in most situations and as a tank even without taunt will grab a significant amount aggro I think refusing to team with tank who has chosen not to take taunt is at best somewhat l33tist an attitude I personally don't favour.
But everyone enjoy your tanking taunted or tauntless and remember at the end of the day we are all just here to have a buzz.All the best all
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Judging by the edits of earlier posts there seems to have been an awful lot of taunting going on in this thread already perhaps it's better if we all agree to disagree.
[/ QUOTE ]IT didn't actually have anything to do with the taunt debate.
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Judging by the edits of earlier posts there seems to have been an awful lot of taunting going on in this thread already perhaps it's better if we all agree to disagree. As someone who started as a soloer, and did a bit of scranking when invited to a team, when I finally learnt the concept behind a tanks team responsabilities I took Taunt and have never looked back, to me now not taking taunt would be like missing my right arm! but as tanks aren't essential in most situations and as a tank even without taunt will grab a significant amount aggro I think refusing to team with tank who has chosen not to take taunt is at best somewhat l33tist an attitude I personally don't favour.
But everyone enjoy your tanking taunted or tauntless and remember at the end of the day we are all just here to have a buzz.All the best all
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Ok so i am new to these forums (ha go figure) and i'll admit i wasnt at all clear in what i wanted to gain from this thread when i posted. I origionally posted to prove a point to a friend who said taunt was usless. On the flip side i pointed out proper tanks all have taunt.
I will hold up my hands and say I WAS WRONG.
So on that note i would like to say that i have got alot of information about getting hate without taunt- like using a fireball, blazing aura and ice power sets (sorry forget which ones).
I still stand by my thought that taunt is useful but if you dont take it, i will no longer think "huh noob"- i will infact think about how niaeve i was and accept that as long as they con hold agro then they are a great tank.
So now i would like to know everyones final decision- would you take taunt, with which type of tank? Why and why not?
Thanks to anyone who helps me out with this- i will probably nick a few ideas and go and make an anti taunt tank of my own!
I took taunt briefly on my fire tank but respec'd it out... I found it slow and cumbersome compared to just jumping around and hitting stuff to get aggro (or in other words it didn't suit my playstyle on that character); on more than one occasion, teammates died because I opted to taunt instead of hit....so you could say I wasn't a fan.
A couple of days ago I decided to roll a 'real' tank (I don't think of fire tanks being in that category, sorry)... one that can stand still long enough to hold aggro without almost - or actually - dying; it's something I've been putting off for a long time, as a scrapper-defender-controller-blaster its always looked a very dull job from the outside. I have a level 14 Invul/SS tank with all the anniversary badges; I have an ice/ice tank that I've struggled to get to 11 and can't seem to get a grip on.
So for my third attempt I chose WP/ as I have a couple of /WP scrappers and wanted to see what it was like ramped up for tanks. I haven't taken - or slotted - any attacks yet, got to 10 last night and took taunt.
I like it. 
If I was to make a tank without taunt as the concept but still wanted to hold the maximum amount of agro I'd take Ice Armour and Fire Melee.
Ice Armour has two auras, one of which is the best aura for holding agro and fire has the most AoEs. AoEs help with gauntlet so its all good
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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If I was to make a tank without taunt as the concept but still wanted to hold the maximum amount of agro I'd take Ice Armour and Fire Melee.
Ice Armour has two auras, one of which is the best aura for holding agro and fire has the most AoEs. AoEs help with gauntlet so its all good
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So which tank sets would you preffer if you were to take taunt? Out of interest
LOL @ this thread
Btw, Shannon you got any proof of these epic achievements?
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If I was to make a tank without taunt as the concept but still wanted to hold the maximum amount of agro I'd take Ice Armour and Fire Melee.
Ice Armour has two auras, one of which is the best aura for holding agro and fire has the most AoEs. AoEs help with gauntlet so its all good
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So which tank sets would you preffer if you were to take taunt? Out of interest
[/ QUOTE ]If I were to choose the set that most needs taunt, it'd most definitely be willpower. However, I'd never roll a WP tank.
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If I was to make a tank without taunt as the concept but still wanted to hold the maximum amount of agro I'd take Ice Armour and Fire Melee.
Ice Armour has two auras, one of which is the best aura for holding agro and fire has the most AoEs. AoEs help with gauntlet so its all good
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So which tank sets would you preffer if you were to take taunt? Out of interest
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Having hit 50 with willpower and felt the pain of it I'd probably still take Ice as a primary, or maybe Inv I guess. I am planning a new tank at some point that will the Stone Melee but not willpower again. Its silly when you dont have to worry about surviving fighting +7s, but you have to be paranoid about holding the agro of evens. And my willpower is fire melee. But I feel so under powered in the agro department compared to my Ice (as stated earlier both my tanks have 6 slotted taunt, difference is the WP really needs it, the Ice could do without I just hate my secondary too much to slot it)
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
People play the way they want. Whether or not the characters are designed to perform when people play that way is another matter.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I haven't noticed this as it hasn't happened.
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What do you think happens to all the aggro when you tank faceplants then? They certainly don't stand around looking at you corpse.
It's happened alreight. You may not have noticed it, but I bet your squishy team mates did.
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About Icetanks theoretically being the only tank worth having in the team as they hold aggro best.
Some teams have been perfectly safe with a willpower scrapper in front herding.
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I wasn't saying that's what i really though. I was saying that if you applied the same logic that "I'll only team with a tank with taunt because it's the only way to be sure", Then you also have to say "I will only team with a tank with taunt and CE, sice it's the only way to be sure". I don't think anyone would dispute that Taunt+CE is better than taunt alone, and only a fool would dispute that Taunt+CE > Taunt+any other aura.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Not true you just need to move slower mobs will still follow
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Don't know what game you have been playing.
No, no they won't.
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4 taunt aura ticks
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Wich I have already established count for zip on the WP aura, since the mobs don't stay taunted.
Basically WP taunt aura = no taunt aura.
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Possibly depending on how carefuly/ quickly you move
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No. The CE taunted mobs will still be taunted unless someone else taunts them off you. The WP aura Taunte mobs will not remain taunted if you move away from them. It is quite simple WP aura = irelevent.
WP, to taunt 16 mobs.
T=0 Taunt 1, You have 5 mobs
T=4 (estimated, depends on slotting) Taunt 2, you now have 10 mobs
T=8 Taunt 3, you now have 15 mobs
The last 1, you can keep in melee range and hold with your aura.
Total 8 seconds.
I really should do something about this signature.
OK I'd say quite a vast amount of the squishy team members I have seen, all seem to go out of their way to desperately try to get themselves killed. I'd say a lot of them expect a tank to save them from everything they create, magically defy game mechanics and in no way offer much assistance back. Mind you it is less boring but tedious when you don't want to have to [censored] around.
Willpower Aura; it is very much about scratching each others back teaming with one. Willpower doesn't have a heal but it fast regens. It regens best with mobs next to it and at the same time it holds aggro with mobs next to it. Thats how its designed. People can decide its not designed that way and wonder why the defender had got aggro and died thus leaving the team unsupported and wonder why the/their tank is so squishie and the regen is poor.
People design their toons how they want, thus having some flexibilities traded for some limitations and normally players by not finding a way to work within each others parameters, fail.
I wonder why at times an Invuln tank is made to be taking ranged energy damage at range when they could of been taking lethal damage in melee and given much higher defense.
Every concept has its challenges, some people enjoy challenges and actually look to overcome/get around them by working together to keep some level of control.
Willpower should have an increased pace, it doesn't mean everyone else will though but they can pretty much keep gauntleting like no other.
RotP, was better when you wasn't rooted to the spot but its untouchable duration is a full 15 secs, you can regain aggro, maybe fireball and taunt, and then turn toggles on. My toggle time is 6 secs which gives me 9 secs to play with.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Praf perhaps what you say is true, I have a WP tank but he is too low lvl to have any real experience of, what I do find somewhat objectionable is when you try and prove your point with maths ( a subject I love ) which seems to me incomplete considering your premise. ie Basically WP aura = no taunt aura. When in a mathmatical model of a situation this is not true, perhaps WP arua < any other taunt aura is a more accurate statement.
In answer to the question of does a Tank need Taunt I would say no, however what he does need is a way to maintain aggro.
Some tanks can get by without it and some can't.
A few months ago I decided to dust off my FF/Dark Defender and got an invite into a team consisting of just 3 tanks all similar level to myself - 18/19 at the time.
We started the mission and all was fine, bubbled them up and used Tenub tentacles to debuff the mobs.
Right at the end there was a room with multiple groups near each other and during the fight we managed to aggro them; it shouldn't have been a problem. I kept spamming Teneb Tentacles; my health bar started to turn red and I was popping greens like mad to stay healthy eventually i decided to go into PFF but it was too late, a lucky shot hit me right through it and I faceplanted.
Two of the tanks were WP and the other Invuln; none of them had Taunt.
So basically 3 tanks couldn't keep aggro off of one Def using a single AoE; I could have stopped using Tenub Tentacles but I shouldn't need to!
My Ice and Fire Tank don't need Taunt but WP obviously does as does Invuln based on that experience.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
I'm playing an Ice/Ice tanker at the moment.
The taunt power was still necessary to take IMO in order to manage aggression.
If any of my team have less than full green health bars, I ain't doing things right. 
@Aubrey
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If any of my team have less than full green health bars, I ain't doing things right.
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Thats the spirit. Such confidence means other team members will be working at peak efficiency, not worrying about themselves.
I have a degree in Maths, Physics and Astrophysics (as well as an advanced degree in Multimedia Computing). I teach A level Physics and Mathematics. I think my maths is legit.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Praf perhaps what you say is true, I have a WP tank but he is too low lvl to have any real experience of, what I do find somewhat objectionable is when you try and prove your point with maths ( a subject I love ) which seems to me incomplete considering your premise. ie Basically WP aura = no taunt aura. When in a mathmatical model of a situation this is not true, perhaps WP arua < any other taunt aura is a more accurate statement.
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Proving a point with maths is often sometimes seen as the only way to get through to some people.
I see RTTC as better than Death Shroud and Blazing Aura under -acc or -tohit conditions. Under heavy amounts of those conditions I rely on taunt. My last chance to hit figures at times may as well of read as "LOL!".
Some tanks don't like other peoples bars so much as twitching and the fact that there has been one twitch could of in another place versus another enemy meant a team wipe to follow. Takes a whole team to produce the right team dynamic.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I have a degree in Maths, Physics and Astrophysics (as well as an advanced degree in Multimedia Computing). I teach A level Physics and Mathematics. I think my maths is legit.
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Does that mean you know your 3 times tables?! Hax! 
Praf don't get me wrong mate, nuff respect my qualifications don't go past GCSE but I just thought your model was incomplete given your premise and in fact the model I replied with was also incomplete given the fact that any punchvoke would tend to average out any other inconsitances. Your qualifications and in game expaerience far outway mine I have no problem with that I just thought the maths you presented were rather biased towards your point of view, which as I say could be a totally legitamate one but using somewhat incomplete mathmatical modelling to prove your point is what I personally had issue with, oh yes and taunt rocks
I'll go with as an EB definitely, as an even /+1 AV probably, +2/+3 AV possibly, +4 and up - good luck - assuming you mean to survive the experience of course.
Of course with an optimal build this becomes much easier.
This was of course referring to Recluse - bah forgot I'd moved back to a previous page
Mind of Gaia lvl 50 Defiant's first Mind/Storm 'troller.
Deadly Doc 50 Dark/Dark Corr
and lots more on Pinnacle,Union and Defiant