Its not just a case of multiple groups, it can be based on the size of cones and aoes, numbers effected, the importance of self buffs/other buffs and/or the debuffs, and you can in having something switch from ranged to melee change in the damage type they deal. On a +4 enemy a Invuln may prefer things supertight whilst a Firetank likes it loose.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Well I have a lvl 50 WP tank who uses taunt as part of his attack chain (psi proc ftw!) but then RttC is a weak aggro aura and he isnt made to be a scranker, so taunt on him is essential. On my new Ice tank, i'm not planning on taking taunt till late. Why? Because chilling embrace and icicles are just awesome at grabbing aggro. I've been on teams with high level ice tanks who run around grabbing aggro like loonies, and I feel safe on a squishy. I've seen tanks with taunt miss some in the cone, and then the squishies get splatted. A well played ice tank can easily do without taunt, but I will be taking it for use against AVs etc. As for other tanks, I'le leave it to the player. But a well played tank, regardless of them having taunt or not, will be able to do there job. A poorly played tank, even with taunt, is what I look out for, such as on that took stealth so that the mobs didnt notice him....
Same as the above. My WP/Fire tank spam's taunt, only way with WP's weak agro aura. On the other hand my Ice/DB finds taunt to be purely situational, as I run both CE and Iceycools
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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A poorly played tank, even with taunt, is what I look out for, such as on that took stealth so that the mobs didnt notice him....
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first thing: Stealth has absolutely no effect on aggro. The second the stealthed tanker attacks, the -taunt effect is suppressed and the only thing stealth does from that moment is add to the defence of the tanker.. which increases his survivability.
Secondly: there can be a slight advantage from not being spotted until youre right on top of the enemies. Especially if your a fire or dark who dont have any knockback protection. Imagine getting stopped dead in your tracks half way to the mob before theyre in your aura by a ranged KB attack.
Thirdly: it couldve been a PvP tank. Any advantage letting you get the drop on a opponent is a good advantage.
Fourthly: maybe hed like to be able to ghost missions..
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
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A poorly played tank, even with taunt, is what I look out for, such as on that took stealth so that the mobs didnt notice him....
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first thing: Stealth has absolutely no effect on aggro. The second the stealthed tanker attacks, the -taunt effect is suppressed and the only thing stealth does from that moment is add to the defence of the tanker.. which increases his survivability.
Secondly: there can be a slight advantage from not being spotted until youre right on top of the enemies. Especially if your a fire or dark who dont have any knockback protection. Imagine getting stopped dead in your tracks half way to the mob before theyre in your aura by a ranged KB attack.
Thirdly: it couldve been a PvP tank. Any advantage letting you get the drop on a opponent is a good advantage.
Fourthly: maybe hed like to be able to ghost missions..
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Can I add a 5thly? Fithly it would allow inv/wp tanks to get closer for their buffs from the foes around them before the first attack. Its amazing how much that can change an inv defence before the first attack is launched.
Still I wouldn't take it cause I find it hard enough to cram the powers I want in on a tank anyway
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
[ QUOTE ]
A well played ice tank can easily do without taunt, but I will be taking it for use against AVs etc. As for other tanks, I'le leave it to the player. But a well played tank, regardless of them having taunt or not, will be able to do there job.
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So which AV you going to get it just in time for? Nocturne?
Taunt adds flexibility. I bet I can tank Nocturne with no defenders or controllers in team whether she'd be even level or +3 to me as a scrapper...hmm..yeah..I should have the flexibility.. 
I gonna have a pop at that today.
When it comes to tanks with stealth, if anyone is that far up their butt when they are running in then there is that, don't be so far up it and if they end up flooring due to your being back 60ft then there is that for them to learn from. I really don't like to see someone who looooves to team with all the powers that pretty much only help them out on whatever toon, but for people who have more of a history soloing, hard to blame them when there is no point getting team powers when you never see a team.
Edit: Due to only seeing mental blast pop 1/4 of a health bar at a time, was alright! Now if I had the whole attack chain, different story. Taunt shows AV flexibility from lvl 15.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
If the tank stops my Blaster getting snapped in half, I couldn't give a crab how he's doing it.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
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If the tank stops my Blaster getting snapped in half, I couldn't give a crab how he's doing it.
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And if he dosent, due to the ambush, the runners, the missed mobs, the fliers, the teleporters, the double spawns, the summoned reinforcements, the double (or more) AV's, or the plain mistake,
Do you care how he missed them?
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If the tank stops my Blaster getting snapped in half, I couldn't give a crab how he's doing it.
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This is fine, I don't jump team cos of a tauntless tank. I might on a fixated tank. Some fixations are understandable some not. I myself may have to be fixated and have to spare 1,67 seconds to save someone elsewhere and because of that I might of saved the team maybe 10 secs or 3 mins, who knows?
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Regarding stealth on a tank- I've heard bad reports on CoD on tanks, as it does not supress on attacking/being attacked like regular stealth. Yes, once an enemy sees you they act as normal, but you can still have enemies in the mob you're trying to aggro who might not notice. On the other hand, a quick tap with the aggro aura mean they will be aggroed and the stealth won't matter.
Pool stealth and, I think, grant invis, are harmless to tanking as they supress when you make your first move.
To be honest whoever owns the character should be able to pick what they want without anyone commenting or criticising, maybe giving advice, but if someone has certain powers do not force them to get rid of them because at the end of they day its their character and its their decision.
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To be honest whoever owns the character should be able to pick what they want without anyone commenting or criticising, maybe giving advice, but if someone has certain powers do not force them to get rid of them because at the end of they day its their character and its their decision.
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No one can force anyone to do a thing, as it is, if ya not happy with teaming with people cos the dynamics just ain't your idea of fun or some other team does it better then you don't. As a TA if I don't want my butt handed to me a few times in one mission or if I can't drop debuffs without aggro then my teaming with a fixated tank is short lived. Its nice when I play a blaster or controller just to throw it all down and not get into easily avoided positions of personal survival or ineffectiveness, for some it won't be and thats why we all team with different people.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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And if he dosent, due to the ambush, the runners, the missed mobs, the fliers, the teleporters, the double spawns, the summoned reinforcements, the double (or more) AV's, or the plain mistake,
Do you care how he missed them?
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Is your question supposed to be smart or something? I'll just start shouting at people when it turns out they're not flawless, sounds good.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
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And if he dosent, due to the ambush, the runners, the missed mobs, the fliers, the teleporters, the double spawns, the summoned reinforcements, the double (or more) AV's, or the plain mistake,
Do you care how he missed them?
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Is your question supposed to be smart or something? I'll just start shouting at people when it turns out they're not flawless, sounds good.
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You have teamspeak?
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
When I first starting playing and rolled my Fire/Fire tank I didn't take Taunt. Honestly because I was a little naive, I solo'd a lot, I didnt quite understand its use. However, later on I respec'd it in and found that when in teams I would I was more flexible.
I like to jump into a big mob, with blazing aura on, use fire sword circle, then taunt and pick up a lot of aggro quite quickly.
However, it really depends on who you team with. If you are on a team with all blasters/scrappers then you don't need to told aggro for that long (in my experience) so I find myself using taunt less. However if I am on teams with less raw firepower I find myself using it more.
And with EBs and AVs I find my role is to hold onto the agro while everyone else hits them for significant damage. So I find Taunt, along with my healing flames, invaluable for doing this.
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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To be honest whoever owns the character should be able to pick what they want without anyone commenting or criticising, maybe giving advice, but if someone has certain powers do not force them to get rid of them because at the end of they day its their character and its their decision.
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Blunt. To the point. I like it (and the first bit of sense I've heard from spike...ever 
)
Can't agree more tbh. If people are going to moan at other players setups then why are they in a team, soloing is the better option for them, because at the end of the day if they fail they only have themselves to blame.
Taunt is not a prerequisite for a tank, nor is it mandatory. It helps, a lot in certain situation. Sometimes it can be a lifesaver, but if people concentrate on what theyre doing and not what everyone else is doing then bob's your uncle. I was in a team recently on n ITF and it had no co-ordination to it whatsoever, until I said something about it, and that was because the team was hooked on what everyone else was doing. Don't critisize other players, let them play how they want to, after all its their character.
It adds flexibility thats all anyone needs to know. I don't think it actually ever takes anything away in terms of doing the game content. People are entitled to their concepts however, I like to break other peoples laws so to speak on other toons.
What this thread is about saying is merely generally one can be better off with than without. Whether one does thru finding out how or thru being offered the right team dynamics thru the help of other people is another matter.
We all choose who we want to play with. I've teamed with tauntless tanks, I see goings on, thinks don't necessarily turn out bad and when it doesn't whether we have taunt or not we still owe things going right to the whole of the team but when it comes to pulling the steepest of challenges off (differs for each type) with the most limited of teams thats when you "might" find the flexibilities.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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To be honest whoever owns the character should be able to pick what they want without anyone commenting or criticising, maybe giving advice, but if someone has certain powers do not force them to get rid of them because at the end of they day its their character and its their decision.
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Well when i posted this i intended to see whether or not people preffered taunt and to evaluate peoples uses of it. I dont think everyone should have taunt- it is a personal opinion and i wouldnt force a person to get a power. If someone asked my opinion about the usuefullness of the power i would give it- but i wouldnt rant and rave unless its causing the team to wipe more than once- then there is obviously a problem with someone (might even be me who knows). Either way as long as a person is happy and friendly then so am i.
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To be honest whoever owns the character should be able to pick what they want without anyone commenting or criticising, maybe giving advice, but if someone has certain powers do not force them to get rid of them because at the end of they day its their character and its their decision.
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Thats absolutely true. You cant critise someone for choosing their build.
However, you cant critisise someone for choosing not to play with a tauntless tank either. Its their game too.
I always prefer to play with a taunting tank, and will choose one over a tauntless, unless I have a very good reason to choose otherwise (freind, or experience of that tank being very good).
And when it comes to a hard TF, I will think very long and very hard about accepting a tauntless tank.
So its not a critique of the person. Of course, choose how you want to play / build. But ultimately, you have to accept the impact your choices have on your popularity and desirability in the game. That may bother you a little, a lot, or not at all.
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And if he dosent, due to the ambush, the runners, the missed mobs, the fliers, the teleporters, the double spawns, the summoned reinforcements, the double (or more) AV's, or the plain mistake,
Do you care how he missed them?
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Is your question supposed to be smart or something? I'll just start shouting at people when it turns out they're not flawless, sounds good.
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Sorry, that was an obtuse post.
My point was, of course nobody complains when things are going well. But that dosent differentiate taunt vs tauntless.
You have to look at when things go badly. In my experience, I face plant more with tauntless tanks.
And thats normally in one of the situations noted above. A taunt would have a 100% chance of complete save. However, in such pear shaped situation, a tauntless tank will have to move from "the zone", causing chaos, taking time, and with less chance of grabbing aggro off me.
Perhaps one should consider not WHY TAKE TAUNT?, but WHY NOT?
Zero end cost, rech 10 seconds, auto hit, affects anybody, AoE, Works single slotted (although you may well want more).
Now...
Why would you NOT take that kind of power?
Essentially I would say Taunt is hard to quantify hence all this disscusion as to it's effectivness.
From what I know so far punchvoke and auras seem to be as effective (disragarding range) at establishing Aggro.
But so far my research reveals that because duration is element in deciding how much pressure need be applied before aggro is broken, taunt would appear to be on average 3* as effective as other powers for 'holding' aggro. I can't give you a complete proof as the complete maths I have IMO still doesn't balance but I can tell you that duration is thought to be a factor in the breakability of a taunt. So it would appear taunt the power is significantly better at doing it's job than other aggro holding tools.
The taunt effect is the same, regardless of wether it comes from an aura, Punchvoke, or the Taunt power.
Therefore the best way to hold aggro is an autohit aura with a 0.5 second tick - assuming you can keep all the mobs you want to taunt within the AOE.
What the Taunt power enables you to do is taunt at range, which is very useful for rescuing teammates that get into trouble.
I really should do something about this signature.
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The taunt effect is the same, regardless of wether it comes from an aura, Punchvoke, or the Taunt power.
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I have a quick question then. Why does Willpower's Taunt Aura seem noticably worse than the other auras at holding onto aggro?
a - no power in this game is really 'needed'. Even stamina could be done without if you slot for end reduction
b - every team is able to finish every mission if youre use team play and smarts. Some will take ages longer. But you will get there.
c - if you faceplant from attacking... you would have done so alone too. Don't blaim you're team mates for youre mistake... and as suc... don't blaim the tank. Taunt of no taunt.
We are not bound to specific team builds. Time and time again I noticed that in COX its far less important then WOW for instance.
ps. My tanker made 43 now.. without taunt. SS/Inv, and I never missed it. And no team member noticed it missing. If I think it fits the toon concept oir I have a slot free to distribute I will take it, other wise not. I will prob get it on my willp brute later in the higher levels.
All can make their own choices and team members calling me names because of my choices that I made on purpois are just not social or themselves terrible players. In such a way they need a god team to survive.
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Quite agree cog. A nice ol' herd still has its place but as a defensive tool and not a offensive.
There will always come a time when the tank come across a situation he understands the team wont be able to handle, be it 2-3 groups to close to each other, or to many teammembers afk, DCed or split up, and so he decides that the best way of survival is to simply herd his aggro cap back to the others instead of trying to handle the 30+ mobs if they simply rushed in.
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.