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The taunt effect is the same, regardless of wether it comes from an aura, Punchvoke, or the Taunt power.
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I have a quick question then. Why does Willpower's Taunt Aura seem noticably worse than the other auras at holding onto aggro?
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Its noticeably worse at times. Some auras are better than others depending on what a tanks fighting and the rest of their build as well as use of. At such times team mates are particularly vulnerable to getting aggro. People are often unaware of the full scope of what their powersets can do let alone the limitations of another persons and that adds to becoming vulnerable.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Taunt aura comparison:
1) Chilling Embrace: Radius 10', Tick 0.5s, duration 13.5s, autohit
2) Invincibility: Radius 8', tick 1.0s, duration 16.875s, autohit
3) Mud Pots: Radius 8', tick 2.0s, duration 13.5, autohit
4) Blazing Aura, Death Shroud, Icicles: Radius 8', tick 2.0s, duration 13.5s
5) RttC: Radius 8', tick 1.0s, duration 1.25s, autohit
The very short duration means that it wears of as soon as the mob is out of range, and it also means it doesn't gain as much hate, (about 1/10th of as much in fact), so it will be trumped by other taunt effects.
I really should do something about this signature.
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2) Invincibility: Radius 8', tick 1.0s, duration 16.875s, autohit
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And I still have 2 taunt slots in it and taunt 6 slotted.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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The taunt effect is the same, regardless of wether it comes from an aura, Punchvoke, or the Taunt power.
Therefore the best way to hold aggro is an autohit aura with a 0.5 second tick - assuming you can keep all the mobs you want to taunt within the AOE.
What the Taunt power enables you to do is taunt at range, which is very useful for rescuing teammates that get into trouble.
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From the maths we were discussing in another thread, Taunt is a multiplier to Threat rating defined by duration*1000.So max threat multipliers would be
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aura (17,000), Punchvoke (13,000), or the Taunt power (41,000).
[/ QUOTE ] some considerable difference you would have to agree.
I too have heard WP is weak at holding agro which is strange given the only diffrence in there aura is it's set too mag 3, well yes that would explain it you say but it's strange because according to the current understanding of the mathmatics of taunt Mag may as well not excist as it has no effect at all!! 
The weakness of Willpower is comparable to what Invulns used to be like and I was very into getting tight herds, nowadays it run into the main bulk of a group, taunt the furthest, whack anything I needed held and footstomp which ensures my two best gauntlets are down. I think I have a tohit of over 45% an all XD
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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some considerable difference you would have to agree.
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Most of the time it is a difference that makes no difference though, since they are all 1000x more hate than regular attacks. Unless you are in a "who can hold hold more aggro" competition with another tanker.
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is it's set too mag 3,
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Taunt mag doesn't do anything though, it's only the duration that is significant. It's there because at one time not even the devs knew how taunt worked.
I really should do something about this signature.
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a - no power in this game is really 'needed'. Even stamina could be done without if you slot for end reduction
b - every team is able to finish every mission if youre use team play and smarts. Some will take ages longer. But you will get there.
c - if you faceplant from attacking... you would have done so alone too. Don't blaim you're team mates for youre mistake... and as suc... don't blaim the tank. Taunt of no taunt.
We are not bound to specific team builds. Time and time again I noticed that in COX its far less important then WOW for instance.
ps. My tanker made 43 now.. without taunt. SS/Inv, and I never missed it. And no team member noticed it missing. If I think it fits the toon concept oir I have a slot free to distribute I will take it, other wise not. I will prob get it on my willp brute later in the higher levels.
All can make their own choices and team members calling me names because of my choices that I made on purpois are just not social or themselves terrible players. In such a way they need a god team to survive.
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Ever tried with taunt? Im not technically sure you can miss something you never had, but thats pedantic.
There is more to taunt than just Rescuing people in trouble. Taunt allows squishies to stop diverting their attention from the mob (where they can unleash AoE hell - and, incidentally, save you) on onto the stragglers that are threateneing them.
Effectively it makes all your other team mates more efficient.
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There is more to taunt than just Rescuing people in trouble. Taunt allows squishies to stop diverting their attention from the mob (where they can unleash AoE hell - and, incidentally, save you) on onto the stragglers that are threateneing them.
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Yes, but all these things can be done (maybe less efficently) with taunt auras and punchvoke.
Rescuing squishies in trouble is what the Taunt power does better than those other taunt effects.
I really should do something about this signature.
If my job is to secure the team and someone says A is 3* better security than B, then I'm going to choose A every time. Is it strictly neccasery who can say but I'd rather err on the side of caution than choose B and find out latter that it wasn't quite good enough. Hey buts that's just my 0.02 inf worth.
Taunt also deals with other situations much better than just squishes getting rushed, quickly grabbing aggro from widely spread groups, Abrutly bringing ambushes under control, Those split group moments when you need to be in two places at once, establishing control at distance so a stormy say can safely use kb and you can avoid a hard melee Alpha, grabbing Aggro quickly from an AV your blaster just pulled so it doesn't 2 srike him, pulling aggro from a second tank or other taunter who needs help, truely the list goes on. If your a jump into a group hope it all works out sort of tank then yes taunt is probably of little use to you however if you consider the myriad of things that could go wrong and still consider it your job to defend your team to the best of your ability then A1 bro IMO taunt will be an invaluable servant.
tbh at least half my concern about a tauntless tank is not the mechanics of being tauntless, but the psychology of one who doesnt take it. Its screams "I DONT CARE ABOUT YOU" to me.
My Mantra when tanking.
EVERY DEATH APART FROM MINE OWN IS MY FAULT.
NO EXCEPTIONS.
NO EXCUSES.
I don't see things like that.
You can't always, as hard as you could possibly try, be there for everyone in the team as you can't be in different places at once and as hard as you can possibly try to redirect damage or keep cones, aoes or pbaoes off of people in the last second some squishie jumps into them.
We are all caught by whats game mechanically possible and what isn't, one can't commit to 2 completely different actions at once and as much as you may try to predict what a player will do next, ie take some safer more sensible option, you can't.
The fact that no deaths occurred during an entire Praetorian arc doesn't say great tank, it doesn't say great defender, it just says great team and maybe a little luck was involved, as someone was the meatball, who knows.
I do PuGs, and its not at all like a military operation (yes they may of looked slow and inefficient at the start, as people come to learn them but they can through experience be done at speed later). Once you get to know people you can create military operations and yet from the level of expected security in the team someone pushing ones luck is bound to happen. Around taunt-less tanks some people maybe extra careful and not be so quick to unleash hell or with certain power-sets in the team they can afford to. With power-set proliferation comes sets from the villain side that can afford more anarchy for example teamed today with a tank, I as a /thermal was there with someone who was a cold/ and so buffs were sweet, the need for tight grouping for debuffs and the worrying about runners was less of a concern. Fire Cages unleashed early didn't matter.
A powers level of usefulness changes around different team mixes and players. Being that I do PuGs the team mix versus enemy can be challenging and some means of versatility is useful but for me thats without things leading to an unchallenging shoot fish in a barrel game.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I didnt say it was logical
I didnt say it was possible
It is, however, the mantra of a true tank!
EVERY DEATH BUT MINE OWN IS MY FAULT!
NO EXCEPTIONS!
NO EXCUSES!
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If my job is to secure the team and someone says A is 3* better security than B, then I'm going to choose A every time.
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The mobs can only aggro on the tank once over. Once all mobs are on the tank any extra taunting is wasted.
The real restriction on aggro management is the 16 mob limit, and the real example of bad tanking is the tank who taunts everything in sight so they go over the cap and aggro is transfered to other team members.
I really should do something about this signature.
A tank can be seen by everything in sight, try to taunt everything in sight and not go over aggro cap.
A tank can run in to a group of 100, aim to get 17 and come back with 17, but lets say 5 members of the team may of refused to wait when asked or didn't make a decision on staying back and got in and got aggro caps of their own.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Because of the bizzare way hate is calculated even players out of sight round a corner will sometimes aquire a little hate, and that is enough to sometimes cause overcapped mobs to come after them. I've seen it happen.
I really should do something about this signature.
I can see a large group and taunt them to me, only 5 are taunted, the rest are looking for anyone at all, and should anyone act on non taunted foes, they have attention should people wait for a centre up, a footstomp or a knockout blow that "lands" they don't. Thats why sometimes Mr Trigger Happy Fire Cages 2008 takes the alpha for me. His fault, not mine although it may annoy me.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I managed to tank perfectly well with Viking Furnace without taunt, so I'm a little disturbed by this "build snobbery" some people are displaying here. "I won't team with a tank that doesn't have taunt". I prefer not to team with someone that decides on a players worth just by what powers they have.
That said, I did spec into into it a while back, and it does make things a lot easier for me.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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I prefer not to team with someone that decides on a players worth just by what powers they have.
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Perfectly acceptable, just as is a) Not having taunt and b) Choosing not to team with a tauntless tank.
I just feel it worth acknowledging that if tanks choose not to get taunt, they are (probably) impairing their popularity.
Personally, I think choosing not to team with someone based on thier build without seeing them in action is not acceptable.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Perhaps one should consider not WHY TAKE TAUNT?, but WHY NOT?
[/ QUOTE ]Because every single power in my build is more useful than it, and there are still several other powers that would be, but don't fit in.
As for taunting far-away mobs off squishies, I've found that a fire ball in the face does the job quite well.
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Personally, I think choosing not to team with someone based on thier build without seeing them in action is not acceptable.
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I try to avoid quoting and saying "this" but in this case it seems the best course. This!
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Rofl. Is this thread STILL going on? I really cba to read through all that has been posted since my previous one. And I hardly see the point in this continuing.
At the end of the day, people are going to play what they want to play. And thats the way it should be. It's their account which they pay for, and they are entitled to do what they want. No matter how much people moan about this that and the other in regards to taking/not taking certain powers nothing is going to change. And I wouldn't be at all suprised if GR steps in before this whole thread gets blown out of proportion 
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Rofl. Is this thread STILL going on? I really cba to read through all that has been posted since my previous one. And I hardly see the point in this continuing.
[/ QUOTE ]You're new here, aren't you?
We're only on page 2 now, taunt threads tend to go on far longer than that.
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I managed to tank perfectly well with Viking Furnace without taunt, so I'm a little disturbed by this "build snobbery" some people are displaying here. "I won't team with a tank that doesn't have taunt". I prefer not to team with someone that decides on a players worth just by what powers they have.
That said, I did spec into into it a while back, and it does make things a lot easier for me.
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I was part of a team that helped a tauntless tank hit 50 last night, they weren't as flexible as they could be (never are) but the fact that they just hit 50 tells me they are still starting out.
(Hows that for snobbery?)
Happy Birthday SteelRat.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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a - no power in this game is really 'needed'. Even stamina could be done without if you slot for end reduction
b - every team is able to finish every mission if youre use team play and smarts. Some will take ages longer. But you will get there.
c - if you faceplant from attacking... you would have done so alone too. Don't blaim you're team mates for youre mistake... and as suc... don't blaim the tank. Taunt of no taunt.
We are not bound to specific team builds. Time and time again I noticed that in COX its far less important then WOW for instance.
ps. My tanker made 43 now.. without taunt. SS/Inv, and I never missed it. And no team member noticed it missing. If I think it fits the toon concept oir I have a slot free to distribute I will take it, other wise not. I will prob get it on my willp brute later in the higher levels.
All can make their own choices and team members calling me names because of my choices that I made on purpois are just not social or themselves terrible players. In such a way they need a god team to survive.
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Did you post that reply to me deliberately and if so for what reason? I don't appear to be last reply or owner post.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.