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Tankers do not just take Taunt so they can get a team
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Some do. Not many, but it happens. Simply having Taunt in thier power list is not an indicator that someone will be a good tanker.
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Taunt is useful
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Sure it's useful if it's used effectively.
But their are 8 other powers in the tankers secondary, and they are all useful too.
All scrappers have Confront in thier primaries. How many actually take it? Would you say "I won't team with a scrapper without confront?".
I really should do something about this signature.
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Tankers do not just take Taunt so they can get a team
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Some do. Not many, but it happens. Simply having Taunt in thier power list is not an indicator that someone will be a good tanker.
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Taunt is useful
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Sure it's useful if it's used effectively.
But their are 8 other powers in the tankers secondary, and they are all useful too.
All scrappers have Confront in thier primaries. How many actually take it? Would you say "I won't team with a scrapper without confront?".
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Scrappers are a different kettle of fish and you know that. Their job isn't to tank, otherwise there would be no Tanker AT.
You can say what you want about Taunt, and do as much number crunching to go with it, but Taunt is useful, like you said "if used effectively", but you can say the same for every other power on the game, as Cognito said.
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Taunt is useful, like you said "if used effectively", but you can say the same for every other power on the game
[/ QUOTE ]And thus taunt "being useful" is not a good enough reason that all tanks should take it.
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Taunt is useful, like you said "if used effectively", but you can say the same for every other power on the game
[/ QUOTE ]And thus taunt "being useful" is not a good enough reason that all tanks should take it.
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Do you have a tank Max?
Castle inherited some of his responsibilities without all the info handed to him on a platter. Some changes he may make maybe good, but there is always the worry that he could make things shift from: doable without power set bias so we can learn to value any concept - to only doable with select powersets...which would be a "fail". As it has been in PvP, making a powerset choice shouldn't practically be the only skill needed.
Through observation and testing you can know all you would ever need to know about taunt without even looking at the numbers. A lot of what's been done in physics has been done with the practical approach first.."ok we have made a perfectly good bomb!"..."and now we need the theory".
For me taking taunt isn't about getting teams, it's about potentially being able to go from less caring to absolutely not caring about what power sets are in the team as any tank versus any AV. You literally can go from basically needing to have a kin to transfuse everyones bobbing health bars to a stormie lightly only ever having to touch the tanks (any type of btw) healthbar up now and then with 02. My 02 is a specialized one designed for certain formations (yes tactical formations, not gank and spank) by being 2 end, 2 heal, 2 range.
It's much better to discover things for one self than be told "Why", but the tauntless Ice/Energy is never ever going to be always better than a Willpower with taunt.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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All scrappers have Confront in their primaries. How many actually take it? Would you say "I won't team with a scrapper without confront?".
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I have scrappers with confront. Ofc I love to tank AVs with it. No AT is needed remember. Its adds flexibility.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Taunt is useful, like you said "if used effectively", but you can say the same for every other power on the game
[/ QUOTE ]And thus taunt "being useful" is not a good enough reason that all tanks should take it.
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Do you have a tank Max?
[/ QUOTE ]Two at the moment, a L50 Ice/Axe without taunt and a 20-something Invul/EM with it.
Praf believe me I have nothing against you or the devs but to claim you understand something, then turn round say that you didn't but you do now is IMO obviously going to cause suspision as to whether that cycle is going to repeat itself, it becomes in a way a broken trust issue, a statement of complete understanding can no longer be assumed to mean just that as the same claim has been made before and proven to be false. Suppose that's just human nature though.
Castle never did state he understood taunt though, he was mainly working according to their internal documentation, which turned out to be wrong when he took the time to actually dig through the code and figure out how things really worked.
Perhaps you get the gist though
Perhaps you need to learn to trust people more?
I really should do something about this signature.
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All scrappers have Confront in their primaries. How many actually take it? Would you say "I won't team with a scrapper without confront?".
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I have scrappers with confront. Ofc I love to tank AVs with it. No AT is needed remember. Its adds flexibility.
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Yeah, Confront is very useful, we could have done with it yesterday on the ITF where we had trouble seperating the healing essence for Rom with Taunt, since it kept hitting both AVs.
the point is Confront is a primary power for all scrappers, but no one says a scrapper is incoplete without it, so taunt being a secondary for all tankers does not imply that all tankers should have taunt.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Perhaps you need to learn to trust people more?
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Perhaps we all have our shortcomings 
All my scrappers have confront but anyways not many people say an Icetank is incomplete without Perma Frost.
I am not implying that all tankers should have taunt, only that it can add flexibility. Icetanks are lucky they don't get slowed, do hold aggro very easily, make the best recoveries but are unfortunate they have rubbish resistances. So ultimately I think "is there is an AV you would struggle with if it weren't for certain sets in the team or is so much as guaranteed to kill someone?" There is a lot that don't have to happen. If there is an attack that one shots me I am looking to make it completely unusable and hold aggro.
You can meet me in game Praf and watch me tank somit hard if ya like.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Icetanks are lucky they don't get slowed, do hold aggro very easily, make the best recoveries but are unfortunate they have rubbish resistances.
[/ QUOTE ]Rubbish resistances on a defence-based set? Surely you jest.
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However, there was special code added for AVs that alows them to ignore Taunt sometimes. I can't remember how it works, but there where a lot of complaints when it went in.
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From what I recall they simply made Taunt no longer auto hit on them...
Could be wrong here.
Its not entirely defense based now is it.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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However, there was special code added for AVs that alows them to ignore Taunt sometimes. I can't remember how it works, but there where a lot of complaints when it went in.
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From what I recall they simply made Taunt no longer auto hit on them...
Could be wrong here.
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Nah I think there are too many people who think its impossible to keep AVs perma taunted. Some may basically phase, two might placate you, one might black hole you or one iirc would put you in a detention field and basically they can resist it which just means more duration, get closer or more recharge. There are runners and you could lose taunt on them if you don't keep up. I have had to stack more than one application on some foes to remove them from people at times.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Iirc Taunt is still guaranteed Taunt Effect, but things like a taunt aura aren't 100% for EB's/AV's/GM's.
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Its not entirely defense based now is it.
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And the resistances aren't entierly rubbish (Easily capped Cold resistance).
Personally, I have no doubt Shannon is an excellent tanker, better than me certainly, and personnaly, I would always take Taunt (but not at level 20). However, I just think it is wrong to judge players based on thier power choices, without seeing them play.
Maybe a skilled tank without taunt will only be 80% as efficient at a skilled tank with taunt. However, the object of the game is to have fun, and CoX is a very easy game: everyone at 100% effciency 100% of the time is not required for fun.
I really should do something about this signature.
<qr>
Tanked hamidon
Pulled the big Quarry monster down the hole on a eden trial
Keeping the Arachnos flier off the team while they were fighting lord recluse on a STF
Kept the aggro of the teams when taking out the pylons on a mothership raid.
Not to mention all the AVs that ive pulled or forced their attention to me in various missions.
..and probably one or two squishys that ive saved when theyve attracted to much attention... or make that the entire team when theyve suddenly pulled a fresh spawn that was standing to close.
Does being able to da all these things due to a single power make me a "better" tanker?
I dont know, but I certainly think it makes me a more Versatile one..
most of the things on the list Ive couldve found alternative ways to handle if i didnt have taunt (well, except hamidon)
I dont even use taunt to pull a spawn of mobs unless I want a bigger group. I usually use my nemesis staff of rune of warding temp..
But all of this is high level, and not really things i need to worry about when im level 10 (unless im willpower) or even at level 20..
So if someone says they dont need taunt.. sure, go for it. Im fine with that. You simply hasnt reached the stage when you realize that you could be able to do more.
I have the same kind of attitude towards "tauntbot tankers" for that matter. You know the tanks which take only the first attack and then taunt off the secondary and then max out their defences with pool powers. Fighting pool, Jumping pool, presence pool,
...and would have troubles soloing a minion becasue it would take forever.
they too, have more potential than that..
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
I want to meet you in game Praf I would like you to watch me tank using taunt and cos your a mathematician if your interested have a look at threat mechanics with me. Some people play for fun and some people like to sink their teeth into testing things. I got a whole 3 weeks off anyways.
My tankers are always subject to teamwork. I can go from kissing everyone to kicking everyone 
. They aren't suped up as I like base models. They have a way in which they work, plenty of weaknesses and it can be worrying around people who are seemingly trying to lower survivability as one is trying to build up survivability. Yours will be better to some people than mine but we all have our different ideals.
Anyways I don't take taunt for efficiency its just one can direct damage entirely off of people better with it...yeah it can lead to being more efficient at times but thats not the reason.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Maybe a skilled tank without taunt will only be 80% as efficient at a skilled tank with taunt. However, the object of the game is to have fun, and CoX is a very easy game: everyone at 100% effciency 100% of the time is not required for fun.
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This. Not only is it not required for fun, it's not required for effective tanking. You can be 80% efficient and still 100% effective in this game.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
I've been notified of a couple of posts in this thread. While I'm not overly concerned, as it hasn't broken out into a flame war, I would like to remind everyone that we expect you to discuss the topic and not to get personal in your responses.
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But a lot of people don't use Taunt. They just take it because it makes it easier for them to get a team.
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I'm sorry, but what a load of [censored]. Tankers do not just take Taunt so they can get a team. Unless your going on personal experience with your tank. If thats the case maybe you really think how you play yours in the future. Taunt is useful, its a tool which helps the tanker do its job in a team based enviroment (and even zonal PvP enviroments too). If it wasn't useful then why would it be in the tanker sets? You may as well give blasters Taunt in their primaries