Power set proliferation...could've been better
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2009-07-16 24:59 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Defender - Poison
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Since obviously the ability to poison people is so heroic, not to mention a very good way to "defend" other people!
You Rogue, you!
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But Poison Gas Arrow uses a different sense of the word "poison"?
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I was having this discussion with a friend of mine and we agreed Poison could easily be considered a Defender set but we think the devs should consider giving it a more heroic name like Alchemy.
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They should also give Assault Rifle a more heroic name, like Non-Lethal Projectile Weapon. They can say they fire rubber bullets, and flamethrowers only cause 4th degree burns! That's not lethal! Well, not always, anyway.
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Ninjas are notoriously squishy, and /Kin would have trouble keeping them alive.
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Well I kept my ninjas alive with my Ninja/DM MM and that was hard because of the short range of DM's heal as well as I had to keep jumping into the fray and trying to heal the ninjas...with Kin I could just 'sit back' and heal from a far. Sure there are some missions it's not even worth having ninjas (in the 20s/low 30s when you fight Scrapyarders/any mob group that has lots of burn patches/AoE attacks) but I would have loved to have Kinetics as a secondary for my MM when I made him.
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/Dark is one of the best secondaries for keeping henchmen alive. It's not just the heal; it has -Damage, -Acc, Fear, Disorient, Slow; and it has them AoE too. /Kin can debuff one enemy well; not a group.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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You guys can probably blame me for these sets. I specifically asked them to proliferate sets that wouldn't require new animations or VFX, as we're already swamped with supporting power customization. We had to make one new animation for Broadsword Stalkers, but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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That still doesn't explain why Doms got Earth Assault instead of Illusion. I'd think that Illusion would be easier actually.
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Illusion powerset: Primary
Earth Assault: Secondary.
MM's been getting secondary sets only, so unless they slip in Illusion or something else, it looks like Dominators are getting the same amount as the MM's.
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An MM with kinetics... talk about overkill 
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Actually, I suspect it would underperform with MMs; it might need some sort of buff or tweaks to be very playable. A /Kin wouldn't have the tools to keep it's minions alive, and most minions are ranged which also doesn't work well with /Kin.
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Except for Ninjas and Zombies...
Mmm...Ninja/Kin....mmm...
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Speed Zombies = 28 Days Later. 
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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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You guys can probably blame me for these sets. I specifically asked them to proliferate sets that wouldn't require new animations or VFX, as we're already swamped with supporting power customization. We had to make one new animation for Broadsword Stalkers, but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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Blame you I will! I want my Regen Brutes. :'(
I want Masterminds to have SONIC, SONIC, SONIC
:P
JJ
I delete more 50s, then you'll ever have.
http://www.pandora.com/people/jjdemon
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Speed Zombies = 28 Days Later.
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Damn you. Now I want a necro/kin mm.
Be well, people of CoH.
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I want Masterminds to have SONIC, SONIC, SONIC
:P
JJ
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(((echo)))
((echo))
(echo)
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Speed Zombies = 28 Days Later.
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Damn you. Now I want a necro/kin mm.
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Get in line, buddy. I've wanted a Necro/Kin MM for a loooooong time!
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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Maybe next time.
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Semi-related: Castle, can you at least confirm or deny that the list shown on the site (Rad Blast for Blasters, etc) is comprehensive? Is it just a 'these are some of' list, or is that all the ones being ported? Just to direct the speculation from here, so we don't get several months of "But there could be more!" if there isn't going to be.
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If it is the same list I saw last week, and I am 99% certain it is, then it contains everything being proliferated in I16.
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You guys can probably blame me for these sets. I specifically asked them to proliferate sets that wouldn't require new animations or VFX, as we're already swamped with supporting power customization. We had to make one new animation for Broadsword Stalkers, but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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I dont see why we have to blame you for anything. Looking at all the wonderful stuff listed as coming with I16 and people are complaining already? Why didnt villains get illusions, why didnt blah blah blah.
Need I remind everyone here that with MOST other MMO's you have to pay seperately for these expansions. If you dont see something yet that you want, be sure it's more then likely coming down the pipe at a later time. After all, it isnt like they're almost done with issues. The game has a long long way to go.
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"It is still early. Someone is going to get stabbed tonight I can feel it." - Ishmael (said in Jello Shooters chat)
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We had to make one new animation for Broadsword Stalkers, but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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Could you perhaps tell us what the AS animation for BS is?
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Sure. There's a 2 second windup, and then you stab your victim with your sword.
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Haha,very funny! 
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You guys can probably blame me for these sets. I specifically asked them to proliferate sets that wouldn't require new animations or VFX, as we're already swamped with supporting power customization. We had to make one new animation for Broadsword Stalkers, but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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That still doesn't explain why Doms got Earth Assault instead of Illusion. I'd think that Illusion would be easier actually.
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Animations, not models or particle effects. Illusion needs alot of work to become a viable dominator primary. They'd have a [censored] of a time in the mid teens without enough control to lock anything down, and without enough attacks to build dom fast enough.
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You guys can probably blame me for these sets. I specifically asked them to proliferate sets that wouldn't require new animations or VFX, as we're already swamped with supporting power customization. We had to make one new animation for Broadsword Stalkers, but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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That still doesn't explain why Doms got Earth Assault instead of Illusion. I'd think that Illusion would be easier actually.
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Animations, not models or particle effects. Illusion needs alot of work to become a viable dominator primary. They'd have a [censored] of a time in the mid teens without enough control to lock anything down, and without enough attacks to build dom fast enough.
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This.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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/Dark is one of the best secondaries for keeping henchmen alive. It's not just the heal; it has -Damage, -Acc, Fear, Disorient, Slow; and it has them AoE too. /Kin can debuff one enemy well; not a group.
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Dark also has some nice +res and +def in Shadow Fall.
Oh, and I'm pretty sure /Kin has a semi good -dmg AoE power as well
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Maybe next time.
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Semi-related: Castle, can you at least confirm or deny that the list shown on the site (Rad Blast for Blasters, etc) is comprehensive? Is it just a 'these are some of' list, or is that all the ones being ported? Just to direct the speculation from here, so we don't get several months of "But there could be more!" if there isn't going to be.
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If it is the same list I saw last week, and I am 99% certain it is, then it contains everything being proliferated in I16.
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You guys can probably blame me for these sets. I specifically asked them to proliferate sets that wouldn't require new animations or VFX, as we're already swamped with supporting power customization. We had to make one new animation for Broadsword Stalkers, but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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This has me a bit concerned for /earth assault. Specifically, Propel Boulder. If this is the animation I think it is, then doms really don't need another long animation ranged attack like crappy impale.
[/ QUOTE ]Play on villain side a bit, specifically against the Earth Legacy Chain. There's your ranged attacks (plus Hurl).
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Keeping those powersets from Scrappers isn't going to make those tanker sets any better.
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My opinion was changed from "power proliferation makes one archetype a little less unique."
into "I want to keep powersets from other archetypes because I dont want broken powersets to be worked on"
not really my point of view but I guess it is easier to defeat that way.
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Blasters -Dark Blast (though I admit, Rad Blast is a fine choice)
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Dark blast is the weakest blast set in damage and really would need to have some stuff changed around to mesh with blasters a bit more. Although it is easier to make a Dark Manipulation set on the fly than a Rad manipulation set, but one could always say Energy Manip. is close enough for Rad anyway.
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Brutes - Regeneration
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They are just delaying possible balancing headaches involved with brute HP and the Regen set.
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Controller - Dark Miasma
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Dark miasma is almost a control set itself so it's pretty unlikely to get ported before Traps.
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Corruptor - Poison (though Trick Arrow was a fine choice too)
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Poison would require so much rework going from MM to any other AT that it would almost be an entirely new set. The values of weaken and envenom are too high for MM support values by design and the overall set's performance is poor at both protecting the team and creating an offensive advantage.
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Defender - Poison
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Same as above, also it's been stated they don't want to port "Poison" to hero side just like how they didn't want to port "Empathy" to villain side.
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Dominator - Illusion
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Doesn't mesh with the Domination inherent so it would have to be reworked to have less pets.
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MM - Kinetics
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Never going to happen because of Fulcrum Shift + Pets = insanely overpowered. See the issue 5 nerfs to controller pets because having 15 fire imps out with fulcrum shift was literally unstoppable.
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Scrapper - Super strength or energy melee or fire epic powers
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SS and NRG melee have ridiculous extreme damage attacks that would have to be removed or adjusted for scrappers because of how criticals function. Not so much of an issue on brutes though since you have to ramp up to a damage bonus instead of it being a set random chance to do double damage.
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Stalker - Shields or fire melee
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Shields doesn't mesh with most stalkers sets or the stalker theme. Fire melee functionally double but breaks theme since how stealthy is a man on fire?
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Tanker - Spines or energy aura
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Spines I could see, but energy aura is a crappy substitute to Ice Armor since they couldn't add sets with heavy -recharge to brutes when CoV was released because it hampered fury generation.
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Maybe next time.
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Semi-related: Castle, can you at least confirm or deny that the list shown on the site (Rad Blast for Blasters, etc) is comprehensive? Is it just a 'these are some of' list, or is that all the ones being ported? Just to direct the speculation from here, so we don't get several months of "But there could be more!" if there isn't going to be.
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If it is the same list I saw last week, and I am 99% certain it is, then it contains everything being proliferated in I16.
[/ QUOTE ]
You guys can probably blame me for these sets. I specifically asked them to proliferate sets that wouldn't require new animations or VFX, as we're already swamped with supporting power customization. We had to make one new animation for Broadsword Stalkers, but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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This has me a bit concerned for /earth assault. Specifically, Propel Boulder. If this is the animation I think it is, then doms really don't need another long animation ranged attack like crappy impale.
[/ QUOTE ]Play on villain side a bit, specifically against the Earth Legacy Chain. There's your ranged attacks (plus Hurl).
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Ya and one of them is a prople boulder animation, it sticks out one hand and conjures a boulder and then propels it. I think it is at LEAST 2.5 seconds.
Like I said, doms don't need another long animation ranged power like crappy impale.
Other than that, /earth could be awesome if it has the full gambit of stone melee attacks.
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Maybe next time.
[/ QUOTE ]
Semi-related: Castle, can you at least confirm or deny that the list shown on the site (Rad Blast for Blasters, etc) is comprehensive? Is it just a 'these are some of' list, or is that all the ones being ported? Just to direct the speculation from here, so we don't get several months of "But there could be more!" if there isn't going to be.
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If it is the same list I saw last week, and I am 99% certain it is, then it contains everything being proliferated in I16.
[/ QUOTE ]
You guys can probably blame me for these sets. I specifically asked them to proliferate sets that wouldn't require new animations or VFX, as we're already swamped with supporting power customization. We had to make one new animation for Broadsword Stalkers, but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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This has me a bit concerned for /earth assault. Specifically, Propel Boulder. If this is the animation I think it is, then doms really don't need another long animation ranged attack like crappy impale.
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they changed the animation a while back, it's not bad at all anymore.
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You guys can probably blame me for these sets. I specifically asked them to proliferate sets that wouldn't require new animations or VFX, as we're already swamped with supporting power customization. We had to make one new animation for Broadsword Stalkers, but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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That still doesn't explain why Doms got Earth Assault instead of Illusion. I'd think that Illusion would be easier actually.
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Animations, not models or particle effects. Illusion needs alot of work to become a viable dominator primary. They'd have a [censored] of a time in the mid teens without enough control to lock anything down, and without enough attacks to build dom fast enough.
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I disagree. It wouldn't be earth or plant at that stage, but it would be better than grav.
What is the current fotm dom? grav/eng? Maybe, but at any rate grav has never had a poor showing for doms relative to their population despite it being "weak". It would stand to reason that Illusion being generally perceived as "awesome" would be more than enough to carry it through such a short period of underperforming.
It of course has deceive so I'd argue that underperforming even in the teens is a non-issue. Additionally spec wounds would deal very nice damage backed by high assault damage so the healback would be less of an issue. Same for PA.
Question does this mean that Conserve power will be changed in the Electric Armor sets now since Scraps and Tanks can get CP in there epic powers? having 2 CP's available to them would be reason eough for a change wouldn't it?
Maybe a heal I hope brutes would get the same treatment
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To be honest, Ice Armor on a brute wouldn't be as bad as people think. How many people have been brutes and on a team with a Cold Dom corruptor? Same principal, just different source of -recharge.
CHAMPION!
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Question does this mean that Conserve power will be changed in the Electric Armor sets now since Scraps and Tanks can get CP in there epic powers? having 2 CP's available to them would be reason eough for a change wouldn't it?
Maybe a heal I hope brutes would get the same treatment
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For goodness' sake, yes please.
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Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
will be interesting to see what they do with CP.
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Never going to happen because of Fulcrum Shift + Pets = insanely overpowered. See the issue 5 nerfs to controller pets because having 15 fire imps out with fulcrum shift was literally unstoppable.
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Nope. It's not overpowered. I've played Kinetics MMs. You can try to say it's not the same playing a primaryless corruptor and secondaryless MM but really... it's the same. The pets are too stupid to take advantage of Fulcrum Shift.
There's a reason no one is out forming up duos with Kins and MMs and thinking "wow this is so much powerful than anything else". The reason is because Kinetics and MMs together don't mean "overpowered".
Kinetics on MMs:
Good: Yes.
Fun: Yes.
Cool: Yes.
Overpowered: No. Absolutely not. In no way shape or form. By no definition of "overpowered".
*EDIT* Well... at least not relative to any other MM Secondary.
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An MM with kinetics... talk about overkill
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Actually, I suspect it would underperform with MMs; it might need some sort of buff or tweaks to be very playable. A /Kin wouldn't have the tools to keep it's minions alive, and most minions are ranged which also doesn't work well with /Kin.
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Except for Ninjas and Zombies...
Mmm...Ninja/Kin....mmm...
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Ninjas are notoriously squishy, and /Kin would have trouble keeping them alive.
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Well I kept my ninjas alive with my Ninja/DM MM and that was hard because of the short range of DM's heal as well as I had to keep jumping into the fray and trying to heal the ninjas...with Kin I could just 'sit back' and heal from a far. Sure there are some missions it's not even worth having ninjas (in the 20s/low 30s when you fight Scrapyarders/any mob group that has lots of burn patches/AoE attacks) but I would have loved to have Kinetics as a secondary for my MM when I made him.
Maybe it's just cause my main is Kin/Rad but I love Kinetics so maybe some bias
Granted if they did port over Kinetics I wouldn't make another MM. I really like but don't like the MM...everything is too easy solo but...now with the diff. slider in I16 and demon summoning via a customizable whip.....I might make another MM....maybe.... >_>
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