Power set proliferation...could've been better
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2009-07-16 24:59 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Defender - Poison
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Since obviously the ability to poison people is so heroic, not to mention a very good way to "defend" other people!
You Rogue, you!
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Defender - Poison
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Since obviously the ability to poison people is so heroic, not to mention a very good way to "defend" other people!
You Rogue, you!
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But Poison Gas Arrow uses a different sense of the word "poison"?
I team with the Repeat Offenders.
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Defender - Poison
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Since obviously the ability to poison people is so heroic, not to mention a very good way to "defend" other people!
You Rogue, you!
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Small minds, etc.
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Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
I've been dying for epic fire for scrappers for a while now. But electric melee and defense was a pleasant surprise. So hopefully, we'll get fire epics next time.
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I'm always happy to see power sets proliferated, so please don't take this post as a sour grapes post. With that said, is anyone a little disappointed that the most wanted sets weren't proliferated.
Here's what would've made me jump for joy:
Blasters -Dark Blast (though I admit, Rad Blast is a fine choice)
Brutes - Regeneration
Controller - Dark Miasma
Corruptor - Poison (though Trick Arrow was a fine choice too)
Defender - Poison
Dominator - Illusion
MM - Kinetics
Scrapper - Super strength or energy melee or fire epic powers
Stalker - Shields or fire melee
Tanker - Spines or energy aura
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Master Minds getting Kinetics, lol.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
I don't like power proliferation because it makes archetypes less unique and gives people one less reason to play a particular archetype over another. I see no reason to be a fire tanker now that scrappers have it, for example.
instead, new sets.
It tends to please the power levelers though with thoughts of "AW DIZAM WHUD IF BLAZTRZ HAD PSYDMMGLOLOLOLOO!?!?!?"
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I don't like power proliferation because it makes archetypes less unique and gives people one less reason to play a particular archetype over another. I see no reason to be a fire tanker now that scrappers have it, for example.
instead, new sets.
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If proliferating a powerset from archetype A to archetype B means there is no reason to play that powerset in A, or to play A at all, then archetype A needs to be redesigned. Having a powerset in archetypes A and B should give two different ways to play it, both interesting in their own way, and while not everyone should want to play it both ways, about an equal number of players should want to play it each way, at the very least.
If Fire Tankers are not sufficiently more survivable than scrappers, then Tanker > Fiery Aura and Tanker > Fiery Melee need to be revisited. Keeping those powersets from Scrappers isn't going to make those tanker sets any better.
I team with the Repeat Offenders.
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Here's what would've made me jump for joy:
Blasters -Dark Blast (though I admit, Rad Blast is a fine choice)
Brutes - Regeneration
Controller - Dark Miasma
Corruptor - Poison (though Trick Arrow was a fine choice too)
Defender - Poison
Dominator - Illusion
MM - Kinetics
Scrapper - Super strength or energy melee or fire epic powers
Stalker - Shields or fire melee
Tanker - Spines or energy aura
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My first response to this is a big hell to the no for masterminds with kinetics. Sorry, I just do not want to see this. EVER.
However, I do like your other ideas especially:
Controller - Dark Miasma - I've been wanting this for quite some time.
Corruptor/Defender - Poison - Not sure if it's suitable but would be interesting.
Dominator - Illusion: Another proliferation I want.
@rewster
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nuff' said...
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I'm always happy to see power sets proliferated, so please don't take this post as a sour grapes post. With that said, is anyone a little disappointed that the most wanted sets weren't proliferated.
Here's what would've made me jump for joy:
Blasters -Dark Blast (though I admit, Rad Blast is a fine choice)
Brutes - Regeneration
Controller - Dark Miasma
Corruptor - Poison (though Trick Arrow was a fine choice too)
Defender - Poison
Dominator - Illusion
MM - Kinetics
Scrapper - Super strength or energy melee or fire epic powers
Stalker - Shields or fire melee
Tanker - Spines or energy aura
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Maybe next time. 
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Since we have a separate thread for Powerset Proliferation, pardon my reposting:
To expand on InfamousBrad's list, let me add to it the new total number of sets plus the total permutations (primary/secondary/permutations):
Scrappers: Electric Melee, Electric Armor 9/8/72
Tankers: Electric Melee, Electric Armor 8/10/80
Brutes: Claws, no new secondary 10/8/80
Stalkers: Broadsword, no new secondary 8/7/56
Blasters: Radiation Blast, no new secondary 9/6/54
Controllers: no new primary, Cold Domination 7/9/63
Defenders: Traps, Assault Rifle 10/9/90
Corruptors: Archery, Trick Arrows 9/10/90
Dominators: no new primary, Earth Assault 6/7/42
Masterminds: no new primary, Thermal Radiation 5/8/40
To those wondering about Brutes not getting a new secondary, keep in mind, that among the possible Defense Sets; Brutes, Scrappers, and Tanker will each now have 8 sets while Stalkers only have 7. Brutes are certainly not behind on Defense Sets, they came out of the gate with a lot more Defense Sets than Scrappers or Tankers had.
WRT Dominators, there's only one Control Set left to proliferate, and that's Illusion. I don't know why they didn't go ahead with the inevitable. And since Malaise has dark illusion pets.... After that happens, there are no more Control Set to proliferate since Controllers and Dominators will have all of them. It is time to start thinking about a brand new Control Set such as Electric, Energy, Rad, Dark, Devices.
Masterminds are getting a new set come Going Rogue: Demon Summoning, bringing them up to, 6/8/48. Eventually, they'll be getting Cold, Radiation, and Sonic since Debuff Sets are a no-brainer for their Secondary. Kinetics will be trickier to port to them.
Remember, proliferation is about taking a set from a Powerset Category and giving it to another AT that shares in that Powerset Category with some minor tweaking. Once there is major tweaking or new powers added, then it's no longer a relatively easy proliferation, it becomes tantamount to adding and developing a brand new Set. That's why it's surprising to see Dominators get Earth Assault, that is more than proliferation, that should be considered a new Powerset.
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An MM with kinetics... talk about overkill 
@.MIDAS
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Maybe next time.
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Semi-related: Castle, can you at least confirm or deny that the list shown on the site (Rad Blast for Blasters, etc) is comprehensive? Is it just a 'these are some of' list, or is that all the ones being ported? Just to direct the speculation from here, so we don't get several months of "But there could be more!" if there isn't going to be.
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If it is the same list I saw last week, and I am 99% certain it is, then it contains everything being proliferated in I16.
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An MM with kinetics... talk about overkill
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Actually, I suspect it would underperform with MMs; it might need some sort of buff or tweaks to be very playable. A /Kin wouldn't have the tools to keep it's minions alive, and most minions are ranged which also doesn't work well with /Kin.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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Maybe next time.
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Semi-related: Castle, can you at least confirm or deny that the list shown on the site (Rad Blast for Blasters, etc) is comprehensive? Is it just a 'these are some of' list, or is that all the ones being ported? Just to direct the speculation from here, so we don't get several months of "But there could be more!" if there isn't going to be.
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If it is the same list I saw last week, and I am 99% certain it is, then it contains everything being proliferated in I16.
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You guys can probably blame me for these sets. I specifically asked them to proliferate sets that wouldn't require new animations or VFX, as we're already swamped with supporting power customization. We had to make one new animation for Broadsword Stalkers, but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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You guys can probably blame me for these sets. I specifically asked them to proliferate sets that wouldn't require new animations or VFX, as we're already swamped with supporting power customization. We had to make one new animation for Broadsword Stalkers, but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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That still doesn't explain why Doms got Earth Assault instead of Illusion. I'd think that Illusion would be easier actually.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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Then I really don't get earth assault for doms. I know we have the melee attacks from stone melee... but where are the stone blasts coming from?
Or are they using the same animations as other blasts with new particles, which you don't consider different animations?
Be well, people of CoH.
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but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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Then I really don't get earth assault for doms. I know we have the melee attacks from stone melee... but where are the stone blasts coming from?
Or are they using the same animations as other blasts with new particles, which you don't consider different animations?
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heya Bill
Anyway - my guess? From various other NPCs we have some earth blasts, I think... so they could snag from there.
And we have the Rock throwing animation already...
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www.repeat-offenders.net
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Defender - Poison
...
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Since obviously the ability to poison people is so heroic, not to mention a very good way to "defend" other people!
You Rogue, you!
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But Poison Gas Arrow uses a different sense of the word "poison"?
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I was having this discussion with a friend of mine and we agreed Poison could easily be considered a Defender set but we think the devs should consider giving it a more heroic name like Alchemy.
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An MM with kinetics... talk about overkill
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Actually, I suspect it would underperform with MMs; it might need some sort of buff or tweaks to be very playable. A /Kin wouldn't have the tools to keep it's minions alive, and most minions are ranged which also doesn't work well with /Kin.
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Except for Ninjas and Zombies...
Mmm...Ninja/Kin....mmm...
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An MM with kinetics... talk about overkill
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Actually, I suspect it would underperform with MMs; it might need some sort of buff or tweaks to be very playable. A /Kin wouldn't have the tools to keep it's minions alive, and most minions are ranged which also doesn't work well with /Kin.
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Except for Ninjas and Zombies...
Mmm...Ninja/Kin....mmm...
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Ninjas are notoriously squishy, and /Kin would have trouble keeping them alive.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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We had to make one new animation for Broadsword Stalkers, but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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Could you perhaps tell us what the AS animation for BS is?
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We had to make one new animation for Broadsword Stalkers, but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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Could you perhaps tell us what the AS animation for BS is?
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Sure. There's a 2 second windup, and then you stab your victim with your sword.
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Maybe next time.
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Semi-related: Castle, can you at least confirm or deny that the list shown on the site (Rad Blast for Blasters, etc) is comprehensive? Is it just a 'these are some of' list, or is that all the ones being ported? Just to direct the speculation from here, so we don't get several months of "But there could be more!" if there isn't going to be.
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If it is the same list I saw last week, and I am 99% certain it is, then it contains everything being proliferated in I16.
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You guys can probably blame me for these sets. I specifically asked them to proliferate sets that wouldn't require new animations or VFX, as we're already swamped with supporting power customization. We had to make one new animation for Broadsword Stalkers, but other than that they were able to directly port everything over or at least pull powers and visuals from existing powersets.
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This has me a bit concerned for /earth assault. Specifically, Propel Boulder. If this is the animation I think it is, then doms really don't need another long animation ranged attack like crappy impale.
Pretty stoked with this go round as well though I would have prefered /sonic for MMs over Cold Dom (but that's because of a concept I've been holding on to). We all have our faves we want to see included so when a set isn't thrown in keep in mind the Devs have to make tough choices sometimes.