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This has been rehashed so many times, people who were low level doms were initially happy and anyone who has a high level dom or a permadom were like this sucks. (2-3 bill of infamy down the tubes.)
They nerf high level doms, and throw low level "buff" on some low to mid level characters call it a buff, and people believe them.
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To quote my advisors from Civilization II: "I disagree, your excellency"
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This has been rehashed so many times, people who were low level doms were initially happy and anyone who has a high level dom or a permadom were like this sucks. (2-3 bill of infamy down the tubes.)
They nerf high level doms, and throw low level "buff" on some low to mid level characters call it a buff, and people believe them.
They screwed up dominators like they screwed up PVP.
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So much truth here. I want to weep.
May I ask a serious question, in regards to those who say this is a nerf.
You say that Dominators were fine as is, and we just needed to learn to play them, correct?
Well, does your 'Learn to play them" necessitate building in enough recharge to achieve Permadom?
If so, forgive me for ignoring you, but I'll go right back to enjoying my new Dom. I really disliked that attitude, and being told that "The only good Dom is a Permadom" made the whole AT just unappealing to me. I want to enjoy my entire play experience, not just the very end of the game when I might finally be able to get that much recharge into my build.
Now? Now I don't need to Permadom to be effective. And I don't intend to build for it, either. Just because I actually can avoid it.
On the other hand, if your "Learn to play" did not involve Permadom... well, then I'm sorry. You found something worthwhile in the AT that most, including myself, were unwilling to even look for. I applaud your efforts, and hope these changes didn't turn the gem you found into paste...
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
The only good dom is still perma dom 
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They screwed up dominators like they screwed up PVP.
[/ QUOTE ] You're wrong.
Lordy. Are COH players ever happy about ANYTHING? It's like every time something in the game changes, the tissue companies get richer.
"They've got us surrounded again, the poor bastards." - General Creighton W. Abrams
We're a pretty unpleasable fanbase. It's strange - I wonder if other MMOs have this same kind of polarising opinions amongst their user base. It's not enough that someone disagree with changes, or aren't enjoying them - it has to be part of the us-vs-them, the incompetent dupes vs the knowing elites.
*shrugs* Doms are better. I have more fun on my doms. The rest is bookkeeping.
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We're a pretty unpleasable fanbase. It's strange - I wonder if other MMOs have this same kind of polarising opinions amongst their user base. It's not enough that someone disagree with changes, or aren't enjoying them - it has to be part of the us-vs-them, the incompetent dupes vs the knowing elites.
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Go look at the WoW forums one of these days. Or dig up the archives of the old EQ1 forums, from the time it was the king of MMOs. Or the FFXI forums from its short reign at the top of the subscription charts (although at least 2/3rds of it will be in Japanese). The common trends will be immediately apparent. There you will see a seething mass of furious tormented souls the likes of which make the murky brimstone-reeking bowels of Hell itself look like Disneyland.
@Eisenzahn
GW2 - Melchior.2135
AIM - Euroclydon23
Email - scorpany@yahoo.com or <sameasmyAIM>@aol.com (for the sheer novelty of an almost 20 year old email address that hasn't been overwhelmed by spambots yet)
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Go look at the WoW forums one of these days
[/ QUOTE ]I have. I don't even find the dichotomy there - there, it's like everyone is fundamentally daft.
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you weren't able to permadom w/out limiting Stamina to a default slot?
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yeah it's on default, sorry I always count default as one slot is all.
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The only good dom is still perma dom
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and i agree with this statement as well. Let's face it having an End refill click, Mez protection and greater mag will still be desired, and thus permadoms will be better.
On another matter, why can't we just atop generalizing negativly the fors & against opinions on this change. I don't believe those who like the changes are misguided, follow the Devs blindly and so forth while the people who dislike the change aren't ignorant, whimsy complainer who see everything through a dark foggy lens.
For me, these changes seem to favor lowbies. At higher play the desire to have a permadom remains albiet the reason changes slightly, instead of for the damage now it will be for the End and other plus's. Perosnally I'm glad the changes were minor, but i don't necessarily like them. I'm not saying the old way was better, it was flawed and needed changing but i this chane feels more like a band aid and not a true fix. Just my opinion and mist likely based on the fact that my high level Doms are the Fire and Psi sets that seemed to be the ones that didn't come out as shiney as the rest.
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Or dig up the archives of the old EQ1 forums, from the time it was the king of MMOs.
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LOLOLOL
Ironic that you should post that in relation to doms. At just about the time CoH came out, Enchanters, were useful for dispensing mana buffs and attack speed buffs instead of running crowd control. The Devs were gearing up the future expansions to have more and more Magic resist so enchanters were nearly incapable of landing anything on a target. I was one of the crazy ones soloing an enchanter and not camping the small selection of charmable mobs. And of course, following the forums.
Having played that for a years, COV beta showed dominators to be what I really liked in a class: Controls and attacks. One catch, the Jekyll and Hyde damage drove me crazy, so I stuck to blastrollers.
Over the weekend I hopped on a grav/nrg, and Ice/Fire, a Mind/Plant, and an Earth/Psy.
I've liked every one of them, and only the mind/plant didn't make it to at least 10. Heck, even my /Fire made it past 10, and the first one I rolled got deleted after its first experience with a mayhem mish. I still hate DOT's, but taking Air sup instead of chilblain rounded out the character nicely.
My old Grav/Nrg was playing at level 33, and after a quick respec and updating some SO's it played insanely nicely. Once it gets power burst it's going to have unbelievable ranged damage. I'm looking at a new version which only has TF for melee, and making an entirely range oriented Dom.
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Dominator's got a pvp only damage buff back in one issue or another. It was definitely over 2 years ago. I looked for the patch notes regarding the difference in damage in pvp vs pve today and the search doesnt go back that far. Before anyone starts crying"bug" please do remeber the extra damge in pvp was added intentionally. That the dev's forgot they implemented that isnt a "bug".It's an understandable oversite and will be corrected.
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Ya it kind of bothered me that Sunstorm called it a bug as well. They sure love to label things as bugs and exploits even though it was WAI just a few days ago.
It's an oversight that they forgot to adjust for during the dom revamp, there is no bugged code or bugged powers everything is working exactly as designed and implemented.
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The "bug" is the bonus not being removed before these changes went live. Those responsible have been beaten about the head and shoulders with a wet noodle, repeatedly. Not that that will prevent the same sort of thing from happening in the future, but hey, it was fun!
Confirmed: Wet Noodle Melee in I16.
Thanks, Castle!
Global name: @k26dp
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Dominator's got a pvp only damage buff back in one issue or another. It was definitely over 2 years ago. I looked for the patch notes regarding the difference in damage in pvp vs pve today and the search doesnt go back that far. Before anyone starts crying"bug" please do remeber the extra damge in pvp was added intentionally. That the dev's forgot they implemented that isnt a "bug".It's an understandable oversite and will be corrected.
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Ya it kind of bothered me that Sunstorm called it a bug as well. They sure love to label things as bugs and exploits even though it was WAI just a few days ago.
It's an oversight that they forgot to adjust for during the dom revamp, there is no bugged code or bugged powers everything is working exactly as designed and implemented.
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The "bug" is the bonus not being removed before these changes went live. Those responsible have been beaten about the head and shoulders with a wet noodle, repeatedly. Not that that will prevent the same sort of thing from happening in the future, but hey, it was fun!
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Didn't you get the memo? Bug, Exploit, Overpowered, are all offensive terms. You should stick to the more politically correct term: "balance impaired"
After all, we don't want to offend all the balance impaired players that opted into these handicaps .
EX: We didn't realize the balance impaired PvP changes. They have been changed to be more balance capable yet less fun version, because we hate PvP and Doms.
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Dominator's got a pvp only damage buff back in one issue or another. It was definitely over 2 years ago. I looked for the patch notes regarding the difference in damage in pvp vs pve today and the search doesnt go back that far. Before anyone starts crying"bug" please do remeber the extra damge in pvp was added intentionally. That the dev's forgot they implemented that isnt a "bug".It's an understandable oversite and will be corrected.
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Ya it kind of bothered me that Sunstorm called it a bug as well. They sure love to label things as bugs and exploits even though it was WAI just a few days ago.
It's an oversight that they forgot to adjust for during the dom revamp, there is no bugged code or bugged powers everything is working exactly as designed and implemented.
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The "bug" is the bonus not being removed before these changes went live. Those responsible have been beaten about the head and shoulders with a wet noodle, repeatedly. Not that that will prevent the same sort of thing from happening in the future, but hey, it was fun!
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Lol. Either those were large noodles, or not much of a beating.. 
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Just wanted to thank the devs for the dom buffs.
I have a 50 permahasten, permadom Grav/Energy (with actually good powers and ones slotted for use and not for hasten), a non-perma 50 Fire/Fire, and a lowbie Earth/Thorns dominator.
They all feel better with the buffs. I am glad that they were received and appreciate the dom revamp.
Thank you Castle and any others who worked on it. It is very much appreciated.
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Im sorry to say but I personally hate the "buffs." I played my perma mind/electric after the "buffs" were released, and without the damage boost from domination being up, i do far less damage than I would have pre i15. Im not sure about the other sets, but electric assault definatly got the shaft, and im considering stripping her IOs and rolling a /energy dom 
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You don't do more damage in domination now, so your experience is defined by your expectations, not reality.
"Balance Impaired" that I like! Or just plain old "imbalanced" or "oversight" work too 
.
Overall I agree the change heavily favors the low levels. Picking up stamina in the 20's and Hasten is a must now for most builds.
I will say my mind/thorns feels like a powerhouse by lvl 21.
Minds strong single target holds mesh very with /thorns heavy hitting ST attacks and toxic damage. That's the one set that I can say is really wowing me solo.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
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Dominator's got a pvp only damage buff back in one issue or another. It was definitely over 2 years ago. I looked for the patch notes regarding the difference in damage in pvp vs pve today and the search doesnt go back that far. Before anyone starts crying"bug" please do remeber the extra damge in pvp was added intentionally. That the dev's forgot they implemented that isnt a "bug".It's an understandable oversite and will be corrected.
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Ya it kind of bothered me that Sunstorm called it a bug as well. They sure love to label things as bugs and exploits even though it was WAI just a few days ago.
It's an oversight that they forgot to adjust for during the dom revamp, there is no bugged code or bugged powers everything is working exactly as designed and implemented.
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The "bug" is the bonus not being removed before these changes went live. Those responsible have been beaten about the head and shoulders with a wet noodle, repeatedly. Not that that will prevent the same sort of thing from happening in the future, but hey, it was fun!
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Of all the posts you choose to respond to a meaningless one when there are countless posts highlighting actual concerns that could greatly use your attention. Then you don't even read teh follow up explanation. All well, thanks?
In the spirit of keeping words having meaning I would have called it an oversight, but I realize PR isn't what we'd call a strong point for PS. If you want to call everything in sight a bug and an exploit that is your choice. Just look at your beta testers to see what happens when something loses the perception of having an impact.
Have a good one.
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In the spirit of keeping words having meaning I would have called it an oversight, but I realize PR isn't what we'd call a strong point for PS. If you want to call everything in sight a bug and an exploit that is your choice.
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A bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program that prevents it from behaving as intended.
There is NO NEGATIVE CONNOTATION on the term bug other than one directed to the developers. NO ONE BUT THE DEVS should be offended by something being called a bug.
THAT IS THE MEANING OF THE FRIGGING WORD!!!!
Note that most bugs arise from mistakes and errors made by people in either a program's source code or its design, and a few are caused by compilers producing incorrect code. So even if something was designed to be a way, the result may not be really desired due to oversights in the big scope of things. That, again is a bug.
An Exploit, on the other hand, is a bit different. An Exploit is the process of intentionally taking advantage of a bug. Not that it matters to this since no dev called this an exploit. However, power-leveling via MA using Meow farms was an obvious exploit by all aspects of definition (unintended results due to oversights that people took advantage off.)
PS: No, I could not have toned down the caps, I would use increased font size if the forums allowed me to.
Oh and to reiterate:
Oversight = BUG
Error = BUG
Mistake = BUG
Flaw = BUG
Failure = BUG
Bad Design = BUG
Weak Design = BUG
Etc = BUG
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Confirmed: Wet Noodle Melee in I16.
Thanks, Castle!
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Woohoo! Is the noodle going to be customizable? I so want to beat up Freaks with spinach tagliatelle!
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
Posted this earlier as an explanation for my statement. It's ok if you didn't read it, most people only read the last page of a thread anyway.
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The time frame is irrelevant and I never commented on it or suggested anything to do with a "cover up". No idea what you are talking about actually.
I'm well aware of the software definition, I'll just point out that if the devs can't adjust jargon to be suitable for a widespread audience they shouldn't post and should let community reps do it.
Calling it a "bug" makes it sound much more unavoidable than it actually was, like it is totally unexpected.
I see it as an accountability issue. By simply labeling it a "bug" the blame becomes innocuous. by calling it an oversight it is clear what happened and who is responsible. Maybe they don't want that though.
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edit: Castle's "wet noodle" statement seems to agree with the last part. It's no secret that accountability is not something you deal with when working at PS
C'mon Frost, you trying to hard to find something hidden in Castle's words or agenda. Let it go.
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Confirmed: Wet Noodle Melee in I16.
Thanks, Castle!
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I wonder what kind of powers would be in it.
I pulled the trigger. That's right, I did it, in Warburg, with the pistol. - Mista Chains
Everyone know the Tank Archetype get the most drops of all the types. This is because of their "Death Dealing" powers. I call it the front line bonus...but you'll never read this in the wiki - "Rx10"
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edit: Castle's "wet noodle" statement seems to agree with the last part. It's no secret that accountability is not something you deal with when working at PS
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You don't manage people, do you?
Global name: @k26dp
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If we're going to go into stuff like that, we'd also have to determine which powers he was using, since many of them had flat out damage increases in addition to the general damage buff.
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The majority of the flat-out damage increases were to DPA, not DPS or DPE, right? IOW, flat/unchanged until the gaps in the chain get filled in.... which, again, doesn't apply to low levels.
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Maybe he's a level 10 /ice dom?
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Or electric?
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The plant/fire I just ran up to 12 was noticeable worse than before. Now that I have fireblast it is improving, but I still run out of end after the second spawn and everything has 2 end red DO's.
it feels like death if I miss with anything because it recharges so much slower.
I know looking at the numbers that once I mature the build and get FE up over 50% of the time it will be better than before... not sure if I have it in me to wait that long to like a toon when every other fire set in the game feels awesome from lvl 2 on.
For my perma earth/fire I feel like I've lost my berserker mode. I'm overall about the same as before, bit more damage, higher end, but w/e. But domination just doesn't feel as fun any more to me.
It's lost the "you should try to run, cause you are f'd now" feel that it used to offer. I actually liked the on/off feel of the AT though