I totally aggree. In the very least kill the one in AP. Galaxy is often underpopulated and can use the traffic.
Malakim
-Playing since COH beta and still love the game!
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I totally aggree. In the very least kill the one in AP. Galaxy is often underpopulated and can use the traffic.
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Yeah. because those of us who use Galaxy to avoid dealing with the morons who were in Atlas even before i14 certainly want to be the refugee camp of people even the Atlas Park idiots dont want around.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
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The Ae is working as intended? no problems? What a load of crap. A vast majority, almost all of AE usage is for farming. Farming is an exploit. Not working as intended.
If the Devs removed 50% xp from all AE missions that aren't Devs Choice or HoF, it would completely cut out the farming. The only reason to play the AE would be for it's actual purpose...which is to make and play quality story arcs and missions with creative and thought out stories, charcters, and dialogue. If everyone quit playing AE because they could only use it as intended instead of farming the [censored] out of it, then that just makes the AE a complete failure. Not my problem.
If they leave the AE in game as is, IMO they are giving the green light to farmers and PLers. They are basicly saying let this game turn into a cesspool of farmers that will burn out and die, because we don't want our precious AE to be deemed a failure.
Bottom line is this game has changed for the worse since AE. Don't waste your breath telling me otherwise. I've been here for over four years and I know. This game makes be sick right now. If they want games like CO to crush CoX, they are setting up the perfect storm by letting this [censored] happen. Mark my words, stop the excessive farming, especially in Cap and Atlas, or this game will not survive. People that farm all day everyday burn out. They get tired of their repetative existance and they quit, they move on. If this game chases away it's true fan base for a bunch of noob farmers, they might make a killing right now, but will be dead a year from now.
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All this from a person that stands in CAP on his 50 Brute Jacobi Law spamming broadcast for his farm. Brilliant!
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Liers go to hell.
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so do bad spellers
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
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I think you might see the XP lessened..
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Highly doubtful, it would be a reversal of the promoted XP parity with the regular game.
The MA would become the Arena equivalent, an inspire dispenser.
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I think you might see the XP lessened..
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Highly doubtful, it would be a reversal of the promoted XP parity with the regular game.
The MA would become the Arena equivalent, an inspire dispenser.
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There is no XP parity, MA XP (Farms ie 90%sh of the content run) > Reg XP. So either the nature of the encounters change (ie ALL X FARM) or the xp changes.
Now if regular missions provided "All X Farms" that anyone could access at any level, then there would be "parity".
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So we agree there are all sorts of rewards in this game besides XP. As a result, removing XP from the AE, since it is only one of many reward, isn't really all that drastic a thing, is it?
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Yes, it is.
Again:
MA is intended to be an alternative to leveling up in the standard content.
You can't do that very well without XP.
Removing XP from MA would defeat a large part of its purpose: to provide a endless source of game content for people playing the game.
And, again, it's already lackluster in this regard.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
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There is no XP parity, MA XP (Farms ie 90%sh of the content run) > Reg XP.
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I don't buy the '90%ish' number. But even if it were so, it is very likely that the problem with MA is not that it attracts too many PLers, but rather that it fails to attract enough players who don't PL.
I don't power-level, and neither do a lot of other people. So it is already not worth it to me to level in MA, given the reduced gains. Thus, I don't use MA to level. As I understand it, this is not the reaction the developers were hoping for.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
AE need xp?
Yes. Everything need rewards. And the two basic reward of the game is XP and INF. Take then out, and be prepared to run for cover.
How to fix AE?
Its so simple. Dont like it? Dont go on it. Stop pretending that you are superior to everyone and everyone should have your view of the world.
I like the MA because it lets me create my missions. And dont dare call it a farm... most people just say they are too difficult to complete, much less be farmed.
But... I dont force people to play it, or anything else, for that matter... Everyone do what they want to have fun. Your right to have fun dont depend on other people, that ARE different than you, doing what you think is right.
If someone has only 30 minutes per day to play, let then do what they want. If someone has only 24 hours per day to play, let then do what they want. Actually... Do what you want, dont force other people to do it instead of you.
What is need to fix AE? Tolerance. Just that.
** Guardian�s Crazy Catgirl **
************* 22 XxX 10 *************
Yes. I can get lost on a straight-line map.
I think the question should be, "Does the rest of the game need MORE XP?" It is obvious by the sheer number of players looking for exploits in the AE system, and by the huge influx of players back to the game when double XP is (sparingly) offered, that most players want to level faster. I think most players want to explore different ATs and builds and level them to 50 in an expedient manner, to optimize their CoH experience and "return on investment" (in time and money).
Maybe if the Devs adjusted the regular mission xp and rewards to match those offered through the AE system, and in double xp weekends, there would'nt be overcrowding in the Atlas AE buildings, we wouldn't have high level toons spamming the airwaves in Atlas looking for "Boss" teams, and we would once again have a more equal distribution of Players throughout the zones.
Just my two bits....
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Actually, in this case..I'm not too sure about that. *IF* what the AE whiners are saying is true, then that must place them in the minority of players in CoX. If they can't get parties to do "real" content because everyone is in AE, then that means the majority of players wouldn't want to nerf AE.
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The 'everyone is doing it, so it must be true' fallacy aside.
If we assume that 'everyone' knows that AE farms especially exploitative farms are not allowed, its more likely that the average player especially new ones in AE are engaging in human herding/crowd behaviour and not an actual considered choice.
There are many examples of this on every level, a few angles of the ~1999-present housing bubble are interesting, and there is lots of reading on the subject otherwise, but this Ted talk is one of my favorites:
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/da...oral_code.html
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Google "social proof" for how stupidly people make decisions in any given social situation. Its absurd how irrational humans are, and what judgments they make with almost zero data.
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I think you might see the XP lessened..
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Highly doubtful, it would be a reversal of the promoted XP parity with the regular game.
The MA would become the Arena equivalent, an inspire dispenser.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is no XP parity, MA XP (Farms ie 90%sh of the content run) > Reg XP. So either the nature of the encounters change (ie ALL X FARM) or the xp changes.
Now if regular missions provided "All X Farms" that anyone could access at any level, then there would be "parity".
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Uh. Hi. Radio Missions.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
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I think you might see the XP lessened..
[/ QUOTE ]
Highly doubtful, it would be a reversal of the promoted XP parity with the regular game.
The MA would become the Arena equivalent, an inspire dispenser.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is no XP parity, MA XP (Farms ie 90%sh of the content run) > Reg XP. So either the nature of the encounters change (ie ALL X FARM) or the xp changes.
Now if regular missions provided "All X Farms" that anyone could access at any level, then there would be "parity".
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Uh. Hi. Radio Missions.
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I think Mr_Bal is referring to all LT or all Boss or all EB missions - which you can't get in standard radio missions unless you get really lucky and they happen to spawn nothing but LT's (which I have had happen, but not often).
However, even allowing for that I think his claim that the MA gives more XP than other fare in the game is completely unfounded and backed by nothing other than pure opinion. Considering that even on all LT or all Boss maps you don't get any more XP for a given mob than you would get in the rest of the game and sometimes less (custom mobs give you standard Xp for thier level/mob type but can be far harder than standard mobs) and considering the following that you DON'T get in MA:
1. Mission completion bonus XP
2. Story arc completion bonus XP
3. Patrol XP
My personal suspicion would be that in anything BUT the serious farm maps you are already earning at a lower rate than in the rest of the game - balanced ONLY by the fact that you don't have to travel from mission to mission.
So without some serious logs/data to PROVE that the MA gives more xp I think most folks who claim that are talking out of an in-appropriate body part.
Finally, I am sure the Dev's monitor things like XP/hour pretty closely and in the MA can indeed watch it more closely than in other parts of the game since you are essentially in TF mode the whole time. I am fairly sure they will adjust things as needed, hopefully without listening to all the whining currently going on.
Just to firmly establish my position on this (if I haven't already) - I don't farm cause I can't stand boring repitition. I pretty much ONLY play story based content in the MA - stuff that is tagged SFMA - but if the XP rewards get reduced any farther than they are I will stop playing it.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
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Actually, in this case..I'm not too sure about that. *IF* what the AE whiners are saying is true, then that must place them in the minority of players in CoX. If they can't get parties to do "real" content because everyone is in AE, then that means the majority of players wouldn't want to nerf AE.
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The 'everyone is doing it, so it must be true' fallacy aside.
If we assume that 'everyone' knows that AE farms especially exploitative farms are not allowed, its more likely that the average player especially new ones in AE are engaging in human herding/crowd behaviour and not an actual considered choice.
There are many examples of this on every level, a few angles of the ~1999-present housing bubble are interesting, and there is lots of reading on the subject otherwise, but this Ted talk is one of my favorites:
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/da...oral_code.html
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Google "social proof" for how stupidly people make decisions in any given social situation. Its absurd how irrational humans are, and what judgments they make with almost zero data.
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Cool, thank you, I have always been aware of the behaviour and have done a lot of reading about it the last couple of years, but believe it or not I have never heard it called that till today, now I have found a whole other body of information!
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Uh. Hi. Radio Missions.
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Huh?
All AV/EB/Boss/Lt farms in Radio Missions now? Complete with passive buff buddies for max xp/time ratio?
If i want Superior XP for my time, i go to the MA.
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If i want Superior XP for my time, i go to the MA.
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...And get on a PL farm team and go into a farm map.
Because otherwise, it's not even remotely "superior".
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
Outside of farming, the MA is definitely worse than normal missions.
For the loss of travel time, you also lose:
-salvage
-recipes
-end of mission xp bonus
-end of arc xp bonus
-unlocking of new contact
-some temp powers
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Outside of farming, the MA is definitely worse than normal missions.
For the loss of travel time, you also lose:
-salvage
-recipes
-end of mission xp bonus
-end of arc xp bonus
-unlocking of new contact
-some temp powers
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also no badge progress at all. And considering the AE badges require zero actual progress to obtain now..
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
*keeps farming*
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Outside of farming, the MA is definitely worse than normal missions.
For the loss of travel time, you also lose:
-salvage
-recipes
-end of mission xp bonus
-end of arc xp bonus
-unlocking of new contact
-some temp powers
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You missed Patrol XP: it doesn't get used in AE missions.
On the other hand, in AE you get tickets which can be used to buy rare salvage and random recipe rolls. If you want a specific piece of rare salvage and you don't have the inf required to buy it on the market, you can play a few AE missions and get exactly what you want without having to fool around.
Because of AE's popularity with the farmers, the prices of different kinds of medium to high level rare salvage have more or less equalized at between 500,000 and 1,000,000 inf. That is, some have come down in price (Prophecy) and some have gone up (most of the tech rares).
Similarly, the Bronze Recipe reward roll is quite nice. For a few hundred tickets you typically get recipes that you can use or sell on the market for millions.
The real point is that people shouldn't focus on a single aspect of the game. You should do some AE, some TFs, regular missions, PvP, make a cool base, etc. And you should play a few different ATs so you understand how they work (so you know how to work with them better on teams).
If you focus on one thing you'll burn out in a couple of months.
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If you focus on one thing you'll burn out in a couple of months.
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People were already burning out on the regular content prior to the introduction of AE. I personally go with the pattern of playing for 3 months, unsubscribe for 1-2 months, rinse and repeat. The subscription numbers for CoX reflects this pattern quite transparently as well. Steady decline during months between issues and a spike in subscriptions during months of new issues.
Let's be honest here, CoX content in general just don't have much variety. There's kidnap, blinkies, destructibles, rescue, kill all, kill a certain mob, survive x wave of ambushes and that's pretty much all the mission objectives. It's not like we have a real crafting system to use as a time sink to keep people occupied like other games. CoX went with a simple game design to begin with. With or without AE, people will get burned out until a new issue is released regardless. Diversification into areas where a good percent of players have absolutely no interest in such as PVP or rolling certain ATs will only serve to annoy them, not make them play longer.
in allot of ways the direction this game is going reminds me of the whole "cheat device or no cheat device" in the early 80s video games. back then games had cheats that could be accessed by an external device such as a game shark, game genie or action replay. it was also common to find cheats programed into games to be unlocked.
on one side of the fence people say that cheats were good to keep games interesting and also more fun (god mode in Doom or paint ball mode in Golden Eye any one?) on the other side of the fence people felt that cheats made games unfair and ruin game play experience with the instant gratification factor.
In the end after all is said and done its about as solvable as gay rights, abortion or legalizing pot. so to each his own. that works well and good for games at home or arcades but bring it to an MMO and you have the recipe for disaster.
flashbacks and the AE content are both examples of trying to "give the customer what he wants". I could also point out that so is everything else in the game. The reason I bring up these two content features however because they are what I feel are examples of give them what they want, not what they need. Personally I think they added flashbacks as a grand attempt to please the customers. It apparently wasnt what the player base needed however as as far as I can tell is largely used as a fast track teleportation between zones.
AE is a huge disaster. the thought behind it was genuine I believe but also very game breaking that has alienated the desired player base. Any average player that has been with the game for a few issues can plainly see just how dramatic a negative affect it has had on the game.
I know the devs want the game to work but I would have to causion the devs to find a way to not make the AE feature to NOT be the center of content for the game and if it hasent happened by the time "Going Rogue" comes out then I fear for the existence of CoX.
Bonnie and her bunny
Arc ID: 59406
The Trash Came Back
Arc ID: 350303
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AE is a huge disaster.
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News to me!
Please explain how MA has "alienated the desired player base"?
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Any average player that has been with the game for a few issues can plainly see just how dramatic a negative affect it has had on the game.
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I've been with the game since August of '04, and I don't see this dramatic negative effect. I do see a lot of positive, though, so even if the negative effect exists, MA can hardly be called "a disaster".
Are you claiming that the regular content has been abandoned?
Because I can tell you with absolute certainty that it hasn't been.
From my vantage, the only potential problem MA has introduced is making power-leveling too easy to pull off.
If that is a problem, the developers will address it, just as they've done in the past.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
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The 5% of the player population that wants AE just for creativity can have AE.
The other 95% will stop doing AE and it will be a wasted issue.
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If they remove all xp from AE, they will have achieved the biggest [censored] bag reward ever given to a MMO. Multiple failing issues.
PvP Nerfs from issue 13
Pvp Base Raids
CoP TF/SF
Issue 15 TF -Reichsman? lmfao
Removing herding
Turning Anti-farm all of a sudden.
Failing to keep up with Dev-Choice updates.
Small list of things that bother/bothered me. If they remove XP from AE, I will pack up my [censored] and move back to FFXI. I will be sure to delete my characters first just so you can't "has my stuff."
I've been asking for new content to level up my characters with for *YEARS* and now that we have it, I am ecstatic. Take away my XP and You won't be playing with me anymore, a contributing member to raids, channels, WW/Black Market, and PvP on the Pinnacle Server. I won't even think twice.
Let it be an XP farm or a creative mission, I stand by what I just said.
Until that time, I am enjoying my CoH/CoV experience to it's fullest extent.
I believe if they remove XP from AE, it will become the next "Arena" and we will see tumble weeds pass by.
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AE is a huge disaster.
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News to me!
Please explain how MA has "alienated the desired player base"?
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Any average player that has been with the game for a few issues can plainly see just how dramatic a negative affect it has had on the game.
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I've been with the game since August of '04, and I don't see this dramatic negative effect. I do see a lot of positive, though, so even if the negative effect exists, MA can hardly be called "a disaster".
Are you claiming that the regular content has been abandoned?
Because I can tell you with absolute certainty that it hasn't been.
From my vantage, the only potential problem MA has introduced is making power-leveling too easy to pull off.
If that is a problem, the developers will address it, just as they've done in the past.
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first I would like to ask what server you play on as this could be a big difference in the way you see the impact differantly than I. Personally I play on Freedom. that being said here are my observations on how MA/AE has caused major issues with the player base.
before I14 Paragon Island is where you went if you wanted to find farming activity. fortunately there are many zone options for lvl 45-50 character play options if farming chatter was a negative personal play factor for you. Now if you go to Atlas Park the broadcast chatter is dominated by high level characters or aspiring high level characters all barking for farming related business.
the very fact that there are many forums about people having issues with the AE buildings in Atlas Park should tell you that just because you don't see it as a problem then it doesnt mean there isn't one. for new characters there are only two options for their starer zone; Atlas Park and Galaxy City. While some may say that GC has an AE building just like AP, let me point out that as a MMO it is a social game and where the majority goes the greater the desire to go there too. Yes people do start in GC but if you want to find others for a team your more than likely going to be heading to Atlas Park, Hallows or Kings Row any way. While we are at it AP is where you go for costume contests and the fast track Sewer teams to get you on your way as a growing character.
For new users this can be very intimidating and confusing having such high level toon's looking for teams in the same zone as some one who is celebrating thier first earned level outside tof the training room. this is not the kind of environment we want new players to be exposed to if we want this game to stay alive, nor is it desirable for regular core players.
as for the other zones and regular content again I ask what server you are on because on Freedom (one of the more popular servers) the typicaly busy zones before I14 are now very quiet. it is not unusual to cruise Talos Island and have broadcast be non existent.
The auction house is also negativly affected by AE as the player base has dried up due to the direction the game has been going or lack of players playing regular content enough to team with. salvage and recipes are being put up for sale by the hundreds and thousands with few to no buyers.
I know you havent seen these things but look around. its happening or it wouldnt be such a controversy now.
Bonnie and her bunny
Arc ID: 59406
The Trash Came Back
Arc ID: 350303
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and on a more amusing note. I challenge any of these "the MA doesnt need xp" types to turn off their exp in their options settings and then play AE missions all day. Oh. and any tickets or influence you get You are required to throw away and not use.
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I have spent upwards of six hours with my lvl 50 Brute randomly picking and playing AE missions. No XP, and negligible tickets. Since I almost never transfer cash between characters, that's about as close to 0 reward as you can get.
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if you honestly think the tickets from 6 hours of play are negligible, you either have some poorly designed arcs you're playing or you just fail miserably at markets
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The point of my post was to indicate that some of us are perfectly happy to explore content that gives no benefits.
I don't do the AE on lowbies usually, since it means I miss out on things like achievement badges and certain missions I particularly enjoy, like the Seer Marino Arc, or stuff in the Rikti War Zone or Cimerora.
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So, in other words. you enjoy progress. even if it only means badges you cannot get from the AE? Well, then I think you just failed your own logic on playing stuff without needing a reward for it.
After all. if you truly can enjoy the AE without any reward for it ever, why arent you skipping those arcs to enjoy "great storytelling?" Or better yet, lets strip out those badges from those arcs. Seer marino no longer gives any exp at all and no badges. Good to know you'd still be there to play it, right?
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So we agree there are all sorts of rewards in this game besides XP. As a result, removing XP from the AE, since it is only one of many reward, isn't really all that drastic a thing, is it?
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It is when you consider that xp reward is the one most people care about.
Maybe you enjoy sifting through hundreds of badly written, wall banger filled, mary sue laden, shark jumping arcs in the hopes of finding the next shakespeare or herman melville or Charles Dickens.
Me? if I dont have xp or tickets or badges (and to be frank, the only badges left in the AE I already have except for the ones that'd take me about 5 seconds even on a storyline driven arc tyo get), why the hell should I give a [censored] about sifting through the 99% of crap and piss on the AE to find the 1% that might be worth a read?
I do the AE because its Fun to be able to level my characters without having to suffer through various zones I hate, or having to play in pickup groups with absolute retards. Take away my ability to level there, and the only reason i have left to even walk in the AE building is to pick up my tickets my arc generates to spend on stuff I can sell at the market to generate flipping monies
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!