That August survey was just marketing goin' crazy
By
Aces_High,
Posted on: 2009-06-19 23:29 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Sorry, but Talen was the one doing the namecalling and disparaging other players. Playing martyr now is nonsense. His points have been refuted, by more than just me. Attempts at reasonable discourse are impossible when dealing with total arrogance, so I won't try now.
It does add entertainment value to the forums, I guess.
My only regret is that I allowed myself to fall for it. I'm done.
Enjoy! 
Ah, the infamous 'I can't hear you' technique, alongside 'I don't need to prove you wrong, others did!' Excellent stuff.
As far as Jack goes, I'm actually convinced Jack's not really as clever as he thinks he is, but I started playing back in I7. I never had to deal with him 'as a dev', I just got to read things he wrote in hindsight (like his guide to Defiance, which seemed to be exotically bad game design dressed up with raw excitement).
So, where was I? Oh, right. August survey came out, and I hoped it wasn't true because I figured all the things in it would be implemented badly. How dare I.
It's all opinion. Lion, saying everyone loves the AE is just as bad as Talen saying that everyone hates it.
Character Creator 2.0 is awesome. 
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Ok, first, to adress the OP's topic; It would be silly to asssume that nothing from that Survey was going to be implemented, it would also be just as silly to assume that everything on that list is going to get impelemented. Why? Primarily because we dont have the results of the survey. It's entiery likley that the results were a big thumbs up on 'Player created missions', 'Power Customisation' & 'Side Switching' but a big thumbs down on another item(s). In which case we could exepct those two to get implemented, but not the ones that got a thumbs down. It's possible that everything got a thumbs up, (in which case we could expect them all eventually), but we dont know the results, so it is all really up in the air.
And on to the tangent about AE;
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My opinion is not a democracy.
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But is it a Totalitarian Regime with expansionist tendancies? 
Seriously though; there are few things I could say about this ATM, but for the sake of expiedency I'll just stick with my opinion of AE; which I will illistrate with a little story;
A friend of mine and I are in a somewhat RP focused SG on Virtue (who'd of thunk?), & the over the last week he put together a AE arc tailored to our supergroup. On Sunday he got together a bunch of people in the SG (and one extra) and we all ran that arc together. It was awesome, there was RP & smashing stuff & much fun was had by all participants. And all this was done in-around-&-because-of the arc my Friend had made. I dont care if AE is full of steaming carp, the fact that it allows for what I experienced on Sunday, the fact that it allows me to do the same thing (presuming I get my act together ), THAT, that makes it a success (IMO), that makes it not a waste of time, and that makes this game just that more attractive for me to play.
... I could be wrong about this, but Talen, the short form of what you seem to be saying about AE is that you can't be bothered to sort through the Sturgeon effect to find the stuff you enjoy, and want somebody else to do it for you.
*shrug*
Even if we assume Sturgeon was a starry-eyed optimist, and bang it down to "99% of everything (on the AE) is crap", that still leaves that 1%. Last number I remember hearing from the devs was, what, 20,000 arcs? That still leaves around 200 arcs that are at least as good as anything else in the game, or roughly double the amount of dev-created content we've got, give or take.
So, making it so there's triple the amount of good content in a single stroke is somehow a bad thing, now (admittedly, the Search tool is, not to put too fine a point on it, pathetically worthless)?
Let's face it, Talen, there is some quite good content on the AE (by the law of averages, if nothing else). All you have to do is get off your backside and find it (the Stories and Lore segment of the forums is an alright starting place). Alternatively, of course, you could stay on the forums and slag off everyone who ever dared so much as think about setting foot in those ugly glass buildings, because everybody knows that their very existence taints the game.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head." Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates
MA Arcs: #12285, "Small Fears", #106553, "Trollbane", #12669, "How to Survive a Robot Uprising"
Jeez, you should know by now that Talen is immune to numerical based attacks.
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Alternatively, of course, you could stay on the forums and slag off everyone who ever dared so much as think about setting foot in those ugly glass buildings, because everybody knows that their very existence taints the game.
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i go in those ugly glass buildings sometimes. Generally in one of the zones not loaded with farm teams. (So anywhere not CaD, Mercy or AP.) i've played some really entertaining arcs. Of course the fact that i use it at all is proof positive i'm a terrible person with no taste. But at least i'm enjoying myself.
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i make stuff...
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It's all opinion. Lion, saying everyone loves the AE is just as bad as Talen saying that everyone hates it.
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I never said everybody loves AE. That was never the point. I think it's fine that some people may even loathe the AE; no problem. I respect their opinions.
It's when they start casting aspersions on those who do enjoy it (to put it very mildly) that I let it get under my skin. So far all of his responses have been to dismiss any counter points (from anybody, not just me) and add more insults.
Talen's first post indicated that he considered the AE a bust. I countered (I thought reasonably) that many people enjoy it, so technically it isn't a bust from a game standpoint. It's a matter of perspective. Talen then proceeded to belittle and insult the majority of users (calling them idiots and so forth), the vehemence of which frankly caught me off guard and I responded too rashly. Then we *both* acted like bickering school children from that point on.
The AE is accomplishing it's purpose: Allowing players to have fun. Not everyone will like it, just like with every other aspect of the game. Those are the breaks -- and it's okay. It's also okay for people to like it.
But I think it's best to just drop it. Reasonable discussion about differing opinions is one thing; when it degrades to bickering and namecalling it ceases to serve any useful purpose.
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... I could be wrong about this, but Talen, the short form of what you seem to be saying about AE is that you can't be bothered to sort through the Sturgeon effect to find the stuff you enjoy, and want somebody else to do it for you.
[/ QUOTE ]That would be why I have that review thread, why I have used it, and why I have sent you, yes you, personally, advice on improving your arc after holding it up for public scrutiny and attention.
I thought, when MA was hinted at, that it would be used to produce gigantic shovelfuls of [censored]. I was right. It failed to engage my enthusiasm then, and it fails to engage my enthusiasm now. I do not sit down, log on and go 'Whoopee, let's see what interesting things the AE has produced today.' I tremulously sift through a selected list others have offered to me, wondering which [censored] I can pick through to find the odd diamond these days, find nothing, and then despairingly acknowledge that since nobody wants to read a review thread full of me telling people they're terrible, put it down and don't bother for another day.
If the rating system was better, if there was a more useful barrier for entry, if there was some incentive to do well rather than just being popular, if I had some reason to have faith that the devs would select arcs that are even vaguely similar to my own tastes as 'good' arcs, if the system rewarded good storytelling and useful creative spin, then I imagine I'd not feel as justified in not forseeing it as a good thing. When you add the farming/exploiting/playerbase gravitating/increased incompetence effect it's had on the game, I do consider it a net loss to the overall game for my play experience.
What Pendix is passively noting is that I wrote the arc of which he speaks. And I absolutely had fun and I want to refine that same arc. I had a lot of fun even as I revelled in a function that I feel is probably a bad part of the AE - specifically, I was able to take a group that level ranged all over, exemp down to 25, and drag all them up to 25, and run a plot arc that was tailored for them. Useful tool, powerful tool, produces occasionally useful things and even more occasionally, enjoyable things.
But when AE was announced, and I'm sure Pendix can corroborate, my immediate reaction as not 'Oh wow, this will rule,' but rather was a more cynical 'Oh dear.' Same as with Little Big Planet.
Now, if you want to argue the betterment of the game as a whole, the betterment of other people's experiences, the usefulness to SGs, VGs, badgers, farmers, frustrated creatives and so on, sure, probably blows their doors off. But I'm not speaking for them. I can't.
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That would be why I have that review thread, why I have used it, and why I have sent you, yes you, personally, advice on improving your arc after holding it up for public scrutiny and attention.
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*blinks*
... you know, I had totally forgotten that? (or rather, hadn't connected your name to it. Sorry, it's been a long night) Believe it or not, the advice was useful, appreciated, and, for the most part, I tried to apply it (such as I agreed with, anyways, since at the end of the day, it's still the story that I'm trying to tell).
I'd agree, at least on general principles, on the farming-plague-thing, although that's decreased somewhat, and at least it's reduced the spam on PI
But I maintain that there are things on the AE that you'll like; I'm just fervently hoping that the search function will be refined to the point where it's actually useful for searching for things. And then, maybe, you'll find your elusive 'good AE content'. Because it is out there.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head." Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates
MA Arcs: #12285, "Small Fears", #106553, "Trollbane", #12669, "How to Survive a Robot Uprising"
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... you know, I had totally forgotten that?
[/ QUOTE ]I'm not really surprised. I have the effect that whenever I'm not in the room yelling at people they forget I exist. Possibly why I'm so blatantly acerbic.
The review thread was part of an effort to improve content on the AE. It's been stymied of late by a paucity of good stuff to review, or reviews that aren't too appropriate. But in the end, I don't think anyone can claim I haven't given the AE a fair shot, and I really don't think it's fair to tell me that I should have been enthusiastic about a feature that has lived up to my expectations.
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I'm not really surprised. I have the effect that whenever I'm not in the room yelling at people they forget I exist. Possibly why I'm so blatantly acerbic.
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Or, maybe, I'm just really really bad with names. I had one person I worked with daily for more than a year whose name I never learned, despite hearing it every day or so >.<
That and I've submitted my various arcs to as many reviewers as I can manage, since I figure that's a) a way to tighten up the arc and bang the dings out of it, and b) it's good exposure
And I'm not saying you have to be enthusiastic- I'm just counselling patience; as I commented, there are tens of thousands of arcs out there; odds are that there's going to be at least a few dozen that you genuinely enjoy- and if you can find those, then I'm thinking that the excercise would have been worthwhile. Maybe I'm unduly optimistic, but, well, that's my opinion 
"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head." Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates
MA Arcs: #12285, "Small Fears", #106553, "Trollbane", #12669, "How to Survive a Robot Uprising"
It's effort : reward ratios that bother me. I like some of the arcs I've played. But the AE feature as a whole, is a hell of a lot of work for very little reward in my case.
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Every time some of us pointed out the detailed plans laid out in the August survey, many of you were quick to say "Hey that was just marketing folks regurgitating all our wish lists. No way all that stuff is planned!" Let's do a little review:
MA: Check.
Side switching in Going Rogue: Check.
Power customization in i16: Check.
But I'm sure we'll never see a Spy archetype or universal enhancement slots, right? If only they had put items on that survey that the devs were actually planning on implementing!
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It would be a big mistake to take that marketing survey as a roadmap for future content. I can think of at least 2 things that were on there that were either radically changed or outright cut, and a bunch of stuff that's not on there, but are being worked on right now.
To save other people the trouble,
<ul type="square">[*]1.) New high level Space Station Zones (PVE, PVP, & Co-op) -possibly different or cut [*]2.) Characters that do not wish to change sides are rewarded by becoming exemplary heroes or villains, and earning rewards not available any other way - possibly different or cut [*]3.) Heroes and villains who go to the other side can also act as Double-Agents - possibly different or cut [*]4.) Character Creator 2.0 includes Powers Customization, allowing players to customize not only the character, but also the actual look of its powers - power customisation confimred, maybe, sort of [*]5.) Players undertake missions that define their character's morality and steer them in a more heroic or villainous direction[/b] - Going Rogue [*]6.) By switching sides (going from good to bad or bad to good), players can access content "on the other side" (heroes can experience villain zones and content, and villains can experience hero zones and content) - Going Rogue [*]7.) Completely new low-level player experience/zones for new characters in which new characters do not begin a hero or villain, rather become one or the other through early gameplay - Possibly Praetoria in GR, though maybe redesigned/cut [*]8.) New Spy Archetype, Power Sets & Costumes - possibly redesigned/cut [*]9.) Universal Enhancement Slots - at level 50, these enhance powers to the character, essentially bringing them to a hypothetical "Level 60" once they have earned all ten slots - possibly redesigned/cut[/list]
EDIT: Also, stuff confirmed by BaBs as possibly being worked on :
<ul type="square"> [*]Having the game emit Gamma Radiation so we can all actually get super powers.[*]Carp Melee[*]Clown AT[*]Broadsword Blast[*]City of Herring expansion[*]New 'Featureless plain' zone[*]Customisation Customisation, to let us each decide exactly how much Customisation is available to us.[/list]
Always remember, we were Heroes.
Yes yes ... FINE!
But when will we be able to talk to fish?
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...
EDIT: Also, stuff confirmed by BaBs as possibly being worked on :
<ul type="square"> [*]Having the game emit Gamma Radiation so we can all actually get super powers.[*]Carp Melee[*]Clown AT[*]Broadsword Blast[*]City of Herring expansion[*]New 'Featureless plain' zone[*]Customisation Customisation, to let us each decide exactly how much Customisation is available to us.[/list]
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You totally forgot Dual Archery Defense! 
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...
EDIT: Also, stuff confirmed by BaBs as possibly being worked on :
<ul type="square"> [*]Having the game emit Gamma Radiation so we can all actually get super powers.[*]Carp Melee[*]Clown AT[*]Broadsword Blast[*]City of Herring expansion[*]New 'Featureless plain' zone[*]Customisation Customisation, to let us each decide exactly how much Customisation is available to us.[/list]
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You totally forgot Dual Archery Defense!
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And of course, new three armed character models to allow for Dual Blades/Shields characters.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
um, what about dual pistol defence? Trick Pistols, gun-fu or however you wish to call it...
And weren't clowns the next mm pets after demons?
What part of phnglui mglw'nafl Cthulhu r'lyeh w'gah nagl fhtagn don't you understand?
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Yes yes ... FINE!
But when will we be able to talk to fish?
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It is part of City of Herring, duh!
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You totally forgot Dual Archery Defense!
[/ QUOTE ]And of course, new three armed character models to allow for Dual Blades/Shields characters.
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I did forget these, along with the new Giant Tapeworm trial!
Sorry, my bad 
Always remember, we were Heroes.
[ QUOTE ]
Yes yes ... FINE!
But when will we be able to talk to fish?
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Anybody can talk to fish.
It's getting an answer that's hard.
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I'm waiting for shield blast.
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Eh, when we get Archery switched to wrist blasters/handbows like the Knives of Artemis we can have Dual Archery defense.
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Yeah, it's much easier to ignore it when I say something that you can't refute. I mean, silly me, thinking that my reaction to things was mine to dictate. I should wait on the polls to tell me what I think before I form my opinions.
[/ QUOTE ]Sadly, that is how the CoX community works. Like people never openly called Jack out, but everyone blamed all the game's troubles on him. Even new people who have just joined up are hating him cause everyone else is.