That August survey was just marketing goin' crazy

[ QUOTE ]
What the heck made you think any of it was unlikely?

[/ QUOTE ]
It was basically a list of things the devs had said in the past would likely never happen.

[ QUOTE ]
And the idea that blanket dismissing things that made it into an OFFICIAL MARKETING SURVEY is rational is... ludicrous.

[/ QUOTE ]Dismissing the idea that 'OMG ITS ULTIMATE PROOF THEY'RE DOING IT!!!!' is rather reasonable... as it's a marketing survey.

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To save other people the trouble,

<ul type="square">[*]2.) Characters that do not wish to change sides are rewarded by becoming exemplary heroes or villains, and earning rewards not available any other way - possibly different or cut[/list]

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope that's cut. I'd prefer that the choice of whether a character switches sides or not was done based on character-based reasons, not what rewards they might or might not get a shot at.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the idea here is that if you have a hero character, who's never going to 'go rogue' and become a villain, you could instead continue to do heroic things and eventually become an exemplary hero...at which point, you'd have access to rewards not available in other ways.

Whereas exemplary villains would just get shafted cause we hate them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you crack me up.

---

Larry Jablonski
Infinity Server

Arc Name: Old Folks Home
Arc ID: 261041
Synopsis: The Octogenician can control minds, but only of people over 80. He's taken an old folks home hostage. Beat up old folks screaming about the good ol' days to defeat the Octogenician!

Which isn't what I was talking about. Unlikely usually means far less than a chance of 50%, not "no ULTIMATE PROOF."

---

A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!

[ QUOTE ]
Which isn't what I was talking about. Unlikely usually means far less than a chance of 50%, not "no ULTIMATE PROOF."

[/ QUOTE ]
As I said before, the list was basically items that had all been shot down by the devs as being highly unlikely. Assuming that any of them were likely because of a 3rd party marketing survey was and still is rather silly.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Which isn't what I was talking about. Unlikely usually means far less than a chance of 50%, not "no ULTIMATE PROOF."

[/ QUOTE ]
As I said before, the list was basically items that had all been shot down by the devs as being highly unlikely. Assuming that any of them were likely because of a 3rd party marketing survey was and still is rather silly.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's amazing how things come full circle. It's exactly this type of post that led me to create this thread.

---

Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.

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Yeah, I understand the idea. What I don't agree with is that it warrants in-game rewards for choosing a specific path, that the other path does not get. What does the side-switcher get that the "pureist" does not?

[/ QUOTE ]
Side switching increases flexibility and options, possibly access to badges and other rewards, and potentially allows for limitless back-and-forth. What reward ought they design for characters that don't switch, that will be equivalent to the flexibility granted by the ability to switch sides?

I see no problem with the "exemplary" idea. In fact, using your logic, I'd say something like that is almost a necessity to keep people who don't want to switch sides from feeling shafted.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem I have is with the unique rewards. Outside of specific badges and minor temp powers, there is nothing exclusive, rewards-wise, offered on either side.

As far as access to different content goes (I assume that's what you mean by "flexibility")-- we all have access to all of the content regardless of the character. Just because Dr. Deception has been able to run missions on both sides while Captain Admirable and Miss Malicious haven't, doesn't mean Captain Admirable and Miss Malicious each deserve unique advantages over Dr. Fabulous. Time played is time played, and there is no inherent advantage to having done all of the content on one character or all of it on two different characters that makes the two different characters deserve special rewards that the one doesn't, aside from badges and temp powers.

I agree with your logical conclusion-- if side-switchers get to keep badges and temp-powers from both sides, then it's a great idea to offer special badges and/or temp powers to those who don't ever side-switch. That's not what it sounds like to me, though. "Unique Rewards" sound like something more than mere badges and temp powers.

I suppose I should withhold my judgment until we see what the rewards actually are, but I would rather express my opinion of the concept behind it while it's still in design phase where arguments are more likely to have an effect.

---

Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Which isn't what I was talking about. Unlikely usually means far less than a chance of 50%, not "no ULTIMATE PROOF."

[/ QUOTE ]
As I said before, the list was basically items that had all been shot down by the devs as being highly unlikely. Assuming that any of them were likely because of a 3rd party marketing survey was and still is rather silly.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's amazing how things come full circle. It's exactly this type of post that led me to create this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]So it's kinda like you won the lottery... except everyone else also gets the money regardless of if they believed it or not. Yeah, I'm perfectly willing to be wrong about these things getting implemented, although it still remained as something that was unlikely to happen.

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[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I understand the idea. What I don't agree with is that it warrants in-game rewards for choosing a specific path,

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless we talking just about badges. The post made it sound as if the extra slots were one of such loyalty rewards.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said in the post above, badges is something I'd totally agree with. There's no question that side-switchers would have an advantage there unless they lose side-exclusive badges. I also would agree with temp powers that are equivalent to the temp powers that are only accessible to the opposite side.

But yes, if it's something like the global enhancement slots, or something else totally unique that gives "native" ATs an advantage, I disagree with the idea. The benefits of side-switching are more aesthetic than power-related. Unless somehow Tankers are both more powerful than Brutes villainside, but less powerful than Brutes heroside.

[ QUOTE ]

Not to mention it won't work. If you start purely neutral, no one starts on the hero or villain side so its meaningless.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have wondered how they would handle this. If these extra rewards are only for people who start and stay in Paragon, or start and stay in the Rogue Isles, that seems to discourage people from starting neutral at all, unless they get something for staying neutral.

---

Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whereas exemplary villains would just get shafted cause we hate them.

[/ QUOTE ]

This all FINALLY clicked for me...

Going Rogue is all a ploy by the Devs to get all the Villains to switch from the Red side to the Blue side. Day of release, there will be a "bug" that will allow Villains to become Heroes, but won't allow Heroes to become Villains. Oh sure, the fix will be on the Test server quick enough... but it will be pushed back. All the while, rewards for 'Going Good' will keep looking sweeter and sweeter. Finally, once the population is about 90% / 10% (sure that won't take long), BAM! the Devs cut their losses and turn off all the Red Side content. They totally drop everything to do with CoV and become a Hero only game.

And why you might ask? So they can finally stop saying they work for CoX. Diabolical!

[/ QUOTE ]

This *JUST* occurred to you? Hell, I figured this out the day Going Rogue was prematurely announced!

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[ QUOTE ]
Whereas exemplary villains would just get shafted cause we hate them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I KNEW it.

*points the accusing finger*

---

The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU

[ QUOTE ]

I have wondered how they would handle this. If these extra rewards are only for people who start and stay in Paragon, or start and stay in the Rogue Isles, that seems to discourage people from starting neutral at all, unless they get something for staying neutral.

[/ QUOTE ]
perhaps a True Neutral badge?

---

What part of phnglui mglw'nafl Cthulhu r'lyeh w'gah nagl fhtagn don't you understand?

[ QUOTE ]
QR
I &amp;#9829; this thread.


EDIT: That's supposed to be a heart. Damn alt codes, anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]ok, focus here people, is this a cagey hint? i'm not a person overwhelmingly skilled with programming, but this seems like it might be a hint. maybe something related to how they are doing power customization..help me out here.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I understand the idea. What I don't agree with is that it warrants in-game rewards for choosing a specific path, that the other path does not get. What does the side-switcher get that the "pureist" does not?

[/ QUOTE ]
Side switching increases flexibility and options, possibly access to badges and other rewards, and potentially allows for limitless back-and-forth. What reward ought they design for characters that don't switch, that will be equivalent to the flexibility granted by the ability to switch sides?

I see no problem with the "exemplary" idea. In fact, using your logic, I'd say something like that is almost a necessity to keep people who don't want to switch sides from feeling shafted.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem I have is with the unique rewards. Outside of specific badges and minor temp powers, there is nothing exclusive, rewards-wise, offered on either side.

As far as access to different content goes (I assume that's what you mean by "flexibility")-- we all have access to all of the content regardless of the character. Just because Dr. Deception has been able to run missions on both sides while Captain Admirable and Miss Malicious haven't, doesn't mean Captain Admirable and Miss Malicious each deserve unique advantages over Dr. Fabulous. Time played is time played, and there is no inherent advantage to having done all of the content on one character or all of it on two different characters that makes the two different characters deserve special rewards that the one doesn't, aside from badges and temp powers.

I agree with your logical conclusion-- if side-switchers get to keep badges and temp-powers from both sides, then it's a great idea to offer special badges and/or temp powers to those who don't ever side-switch. That's not what it sounds like to me, though. "Unique Rewards" sound like something more than mere badges and temp powers.

I suppose I should withhold my judgment until we see what the rewards actually are, but I would rather express my opinion of the concept behind it while it's still in design phase where arguments are more likely to have an effect.

[/ QUOTE ]honestly liquid, my own guess, and thats pretty much all we have to go on, was that being exemplary would give you access to some faction appropriate temp powers, justified as some reward for your loyalty or some such. I would be incredibly surprised if it was anything as drastic as the enhancement slots, as that could have a profound difference in powerlevels of the character, and would be a pretty significant difference between achieveable powerlevels between two characters, it jsut sounds too drastic, badges maybe, but i figured that temp powers, which by high levels are pretty much flavor concept things anyhow, wouldnt cause a significant power difference, and seems to me to be more inline with how the developers have kept the game balanced so far. just my view of it.

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(QR)

*wonders what else could possibly be in the pipeline..*

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
QR
I &amp;#9829; this thread.


EDIT: That's supposed to be a heart. Damn alt codes, anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]ok, focus here people, is this a cagey hint? i'm not a person overwhelmingly skilled with programming, but this seems like it might be a hint. maybe something related to how they are doing power customization..help me out here.

[/ QUOTE ]
No conspiracy there, its just what happens when you try to post an unsupported Unicode character.

For instance, this symbol here --&gt; &amp;#8734;
was supposed to be the infinity symbol. However, it happens to be Unicode Character 221E which when translated from Hexidecimal to Decimal is 8734!!

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To save other people the trouble,

<ul type="square">[*]2.) Characters that do not wish to change sides are rewarded by becoming exemplary heroes or villains, and earning rewards not available any other way - possibly different or cut[/list]

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope that's cut. I'd prefer that the choice of whether a character switches sides or not was done based on character-based reasons, not what rewards they might or might not get a shot at.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the idea here is that if you have a hero character, who's never going to 'go rogue' and become a villain, you could instead continue to do heroic things and eventually become an exemplary hero...at which point, you'd have access to rewards not available in other ways.

Whereas exemplary villains would just get shafted cause we hate them.

[/ QUOTE ]
truer words my friend , truer words.

---

The only thing that I'm unhappy about is what Going Rogue will do to new villain content. I'm not going to say that GR will kill new villain content, because I think it's obvious at this point that "new villain content" has been a dead idea for quite awhile now. I suppose that Going Rogue will just be the nail in the coffin. Once it goes live, everytime someone asks for more villain content they're going to be told:

1) Go to RWZ or Cimerora or Pretoria and do the hero TFs with heroes.

2) Go to the MA and make it yourself.

3) Bored with the villain zones? Switch to heroside.

Someone screenshot this post and save it, because that's exactly what's going to happen.

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*cough*Issue15hasvillaincontent*cough*

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[ QUOTE ]
*cough*Issue15hasvillaincontent*cough*

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah was scratching my head also. Seems some don't read the patch notes.

NEWSFLASH to those that still haven't: The new tfs ARE NOT CO-OP.

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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

well, we did need an illustration of why babs was making a joke. i mean, the fact that there will be an alignment system indicates that there would be more bad things to do to move your bar from blue to red(calling it a bar because most games with this system have a bar, no idea how it will used), and as per usual, we are forgetting the darrin wade/mercedes sheldon arc, from issue 12, the cimorian ghost widow stuff in issue 13, and the redside tf in 15? i think i know why co is not doing the hassle of having a playable villain side. there hasnt been a huge amount of mission content period in the past few issues, one would now surmise its because most of the people who do missions and art assets have been tied up with going rogue.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*cough*Issue15hasvillaincontent*cough*

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah was scratching my head also. Seems some don't read the patch notes.

NEWSFLASH to those that still haven't: The new tfs ARE NOT CO-OP.



[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, a whole TF for villains?
One whole issue on a TF...so it must be good!
With stuff we have never seen before...

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[ QUOTE ]
*cough*Issue15hasvillaincontent*cough*

[/ QUOTE ]
I know, and I never said that it didn't. That still doesn't change what I said though. Everytime someone complains about the huge disparity between hero and villain content - missions / zones / Task Forces - they're going to be told one of those above things.

That Issue 15 has added a single Strike Force does not address my point at all. One single Strike Force being added to villainside while another Task Force is added to heroside in no way addresses the huge disparity between hero and villain content.

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[ QUOTE ]
Everytime someone complains about the huge disparity between hero and villain content - missions / zones / Task Forces - they're going to be told one of those above things.

[/ QUOTE ]

Every time someone complains about the disparity between hero and villain content needs to get it through their thick skull that blueside had 18 months of time in which CoV did not exist. The time difference is even more when you consider that, while they were building the engine and designing the game, the devs were still thinking about content all the while.

There's also the entire issue of what actually counts when you are making the comparisons. Villains may have fewer zones but theirs are better designed and, on average, larger. They're also lacking the ghost town zones that almost no one goes in to unless they absolutely have to (re: hazard zones). They've actually got more story arcs, but, seeing as their shorter most people ignore this, although they're nearly universally better written and more interesting to advance through (this coming from a guy who's actually run every bit of content blueside). Their ATs follow a more integrated design concept.

The problem with trying to compare redside to blueside and finding redside lacking is that it ignores the fact that many of the reasons why redside is like that is because that's what players wanted. They wanted shorter story arcs because the 12 mission slogs through repetitive content with only minor advancements in story every mission got boring quickly. They wanted fewer maps with more in them because there are simply too many largely empty maps blueside (I'm looking at you IP). They've got less content (and always will, virtually guaranteed) because it's a 3.5 year old game whereas blueside is a 5 year old game. Both of them have gotten roughly the same level of attention from the devs (in terms of new content) since they were released. Blueside just had an 18 month head start.

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[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes being wrong is fantastic.

[/ QUOTE ]

My father always says: The only time a pessimist wins, is when he loses.

I always say: I would rather be wrong and happily surpized, than wrong and disapointed!

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When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...

BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!

[ QUOTE ]

Whereas exemplary villains would just get shafted cause we hate them.

[/ QUOTE ]

ROFLMAO!!

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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.