That August survey was just marketing goin' crazy
By
Aces_High,
Posted on: 2009-06-19 23:29 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Didn't Posi say we weren't getting more slots?
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Didn't Posi say we weren't getting more slots?
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Correct. But if I recall correctly he said it in a way that didn't conflict with the concept of universal enhancement slots. Someone will dig up the exact quote but it was something like "we won't raise the level cap, and you won't be getting more slots for your powers." And universal enhancement slots are not slots for your powers. They're something new.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
Something new to simulate 10 more levels...
It is kinda funny how much of that has been (or will shortly be) put in the game. Especially when one considers that most forumits dismissed the whole thing out of hand as reckless pipe-dream material.
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It is kinda funny how much of that has been (or will shortly be) put in the game. Especially when one considers that most forumits dismissed the whole thing out of hand as reckless pipe-dream material.
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I dunno, when I commented on it, I did it with reserved caution because it was just a marketing survey. While it could have been things on the drawing board, that's just what they were - ideas on the drawing board, that could at any time be dropped or changed.
The fact we got some of them doesn't really make any of the other stuff more or less likely at this time. It's all whether the developers feel they want to go that route, after all.
Me, I just hoped it wouldn't go through because I believed that every idea in it would be implemented badly. So far I'm pretty much expectant to be right.
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It is kinda funny how much of that has been (or will shortly be) put in the game. Especially when one considers that most forumits dismissed the whole thing out of hand as reckless pipe-dream material.
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I dunno, when I commented on it, I did it with reserved caution because it was just a marketing survey. While it could have been things on the drawing board, that's just what they were - ideas on the drawing board, that could at any time be dropped or changed.
The fact we got some of them doesn't really make any of the other stuff more or less likely at this time. It's all whether the developers feel they want to go that route, after all.
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That's the best way TO see it; things that are on the White Board of Ideas. There were other things that never got put through, like the SSOCS/Skills, Coralax Epic AT, Avian Epic AT, and more.
And even when things DO get to move from the White Board to the game they change. I remember that one of the abilities hinted about the SSOCS/Skills was that there'd be a power for enhancing your in-game map, such as using a sonar like device to 'ping' for glowies or hostages, or something to that effect and highlight them on your map/nav bar.
The SSOCS eventually became the Invention System, but it lacked the sonar ping device.
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It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
If this is a "We told you so!" type of thread, go ahead and be proud of the fact that you turned out correct. That really isn't anything to be proud of, though, because all it meant is that your incredibly unlikely scenario turned out to be correct.
Rationally, the likelihood of things in that survey leaving the planning stage were low. You just went with the crazy option with little to go on aside from hope and turned out correct.
That doesn't really seem like something to be proud of, to me.
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@Razoras
Or maybe he's psychic and already knew it would happen and how you would dis him, rationally.
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Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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Didn't Posi say we weren't getting more slots?
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I don't remember Posi saying it but Castle definitely did.
Sometimes being wrong is fantastic.
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Sometimes being wrong is fantastic.
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Truer words were never spoken. :3
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You just went with the crazy option with little to go on aside from hope and turned out correct.
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See that's the thing. I've purchased market research. Some market research is about understanding the fundamentals: customer demographics, use of competing products, potentially unmet needs. In that type of research the market researcher uses their expertise to help craft the survey on behalf of the sponsor company and it's generally sent out to a wide swath of potential customers.
The August survey wasn't that type. It was sent out only to existing customers and was a list of very specific potential enhancements to the game. What drove me crazy was exactly the type of response you just gave. 
In no way was assuming the majority of the things on that survey would be implemented "the crazy option". The features in that survey had made it to the top of the list after being hashed and thrashed internally by the devs. It was a snapshot of their coolest ideas (as of last August) that they believed could be implemented with the manpower they anticipated having in the near future.
When I've done this type of very specific customer polling in the past, I sure as hell don't tell the person running the poll, "please survey my customers and ask them how they'd feel about whatever the hell you want to throw in there. Oh, and feel free to put in features so impractical that no matter how excited customers are about them I could never hope to deliver them." Instead, I put in the top items from our internal wish list, and the research company handles polling logistics and helps us interpret the results.
The many times I've discussed this survey I repeatedly stressed that I understood that it wasn't a contract to implement *everything* on the list. But once it became clear that it wasn't a hoax, a little common sense would tell you that they obviously put a list in there of things they thought would be practical to implement and profitable. The beef I had was with people who hand-waved the survey away as the opium dream of a bunch of marketers, when it was obvious to some of us that it was a snapshot of the best ideas they had at the time.
So, am I absolutely sure there's going to be a Spy archetype, moon zone, or universal enhancement slots? Of course not. They may have decided that those weren't practical. Or they may have brainstormed great new feature ideas since last August that pushed those to the back burner. Or those features may be getting worked on right now. No outsider knows.
Sometimes people mock my judgment, but I'll have the last laugh. I'm helping out this Nigerian widow recover a ton of money, and when this plan works out I'm gonna be RICH. It's been a little complicated, but we're at the last step where all I have to do is give her my bank account details so she can deposit my millions. 
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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Every time some of us pointed out the detailed plans laid out in the August survey, many of you were quick to say "Hey that was just marketing folks regurgitating all our wish lists. No way all that stuff is planned!" Let's do a little review:
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Sorry but that's not what I remember. Most of the people quoted the Survey itself where it the second sentence says
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UPDATE: Lighthouse has now commented. 'I want to reiterate what Niviene said here and remind that this is purely market research.'
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and the second paragraph where Niviene was quoted as saying
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Redname Niviene, commenting on the relevant thread, has so far only confirmed that 'Our marketing department has been working on survey research for City of Heroes. The goal is to get valuable player input. We are "testing" multiple ideas and features, and this research will help guide our development efforts.'
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And as to the Power Customization, the devs have said for years that it would be a long time before we saw it in the game. 5 years is a long time. Posi even told us during the his Q&A during the anniversary that they couldn't do it under Cryptic.
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Dr_Mechano: What about Power Customization?
P: Power Customization is one of those things that we couldn't do at Cryptic.
thats all I'll say about that.
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Didn't Posi say we weren't getting more slots?
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Correct. But if I recall correctly he said it in a way that didn't conflict with the concept of universal enhancement slots. Someone will dig up the exact quote but it was something like "we won't raise the level cap, and you won't be getting more slots for your powers." And universal enhancement slots are not slots for your powers. They're something new.
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I love when they do that.
Statesman: There will be no more nerfs to powers.
<ED happens>
Statesman: It's a change to enhancements, not the powers.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Didn't Posi say we weren't getting more slots?
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Correct. But if I recall correctly he said it in a way that didn't conflict with the concept of universal enhancement slots. Someone will dig up the exact quote but it was something like "we won't raise the level cap, and you won't be getting more slots for your powers." And universal enhancement slots are not slots for your powers. They're something new.
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I love when they do that.
Statesman: There will be no more nerfs to powers.
<ED happens>
Statesman: It's a change to enhancements, not the powers.
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So universal enhancement slots would be sort of like the ED kerfuffle, but in reverse?
Which does raise an amusing thought: The Devs have occasionally tested new mechanics and powers in game in limited ways, by doing things like giving new power types to NPC's or making them temporary powers for players to use. It would be interesting if Mystic Fortune powers were test versions of the sort of bonuses/powers universal enhancements would grant. Hypothetically speaking.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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If this is a "We told you so!" type of thread, go ahead and be proud of the fact that you turned out correct. That really isn't anything to be proud of, though, because all it meant is that your incredibly unlikely scenario turned out to be correct.
Rationally, the likelihood of things in that survey leaving the planning stage were low. You just went with the crazy option with little to go on aside from hope and turned out correct.
That doesn't really seem like something to be proud of, to me.
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This is some serious sour grapes right here, and that's coming from a guy who had no conceivable opinion whatsoever. lol
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Me, I just hoped it wouldn't go through because I believed that every idea in it would be implemented badly. So far I'm pretty much expectant to be right.
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So far, the first implemented portion (MA) is a fantastic addition, in spite of forum drama and some players' attempts to ruin it for others. Yep, it had/has bugs; I've yet to see a major update for any game come out bug free.
But the "bugs-to-fun" ratio is definitely weighted to the "fun" side for a lot of us. 
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Me, I just hoped it wouldn't go through because I believed that every idea in it would be implemented badly. So far I'm pretty much expectant to be right.
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So far, the first implemented portion (MA) is a fantastic addition, in spite of forum drama and some players' attempts to ruin it for others. Yep, it had/has bugs; I've yet to see a major update for any game come out bug free.
[/ QUOTE ]Bugs? I'm talking about the content. Ignoring the farms, ignoring the rating system and ignoring the bugs, the AE system is still being used to mass-produce slurry.
I'm sure with universal enhancement slots they'd probably have to make a new IO set type, cause in CoH logic universal enh slots would pretty much just be a spot to build set bonuses/slot ur numinas/miracles, just like an auto with a proc. (lol dmg procs, chance to dmg yourself every 10 seconds)
Unless of course, slotting regular enhancents in ur universal enhancement slots gave you a related bonus, a dmg enh giving x bonus to ALL forms of your dmg, and end down, etc (Now that I think about that, I want >_>
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Me, I just hoped it wouldn't go through because I believed that every idea in it would be implemented badly. So far I'm pretty much expectant to be right.
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You know, I'm one of the first to jump on things I think are boneheaded...but this is just really out of the park. Have there been slips and screwups? Sure. Has EVERYTHING to date been badly implemented? No way in Hummus.
Things to remember:
-Common sense ain't;
-Overkill is the only kill;
-If someone asks if you're a god, run away.
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Has EVERYTHING to date been badly implemented? No way in Hummus.
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Let me just take a moment to say something very important: I like hummus. Okay, carry on.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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Me, I just hoped it wouldn't go through because I believed that every idea in it would be implemented badly. So far I'm pretty much expectant to be right.
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So far, the first implemented portion (MA) is a fantastic addition, in spite of forum drama and some players' attempts to ruin it for others. Yep, it had/has bugs; I've yet to see a major update for any game come out bug free.
[/ QUOTE ]Bugs? I'm talking about the content. Ignoring the farms, ignoring the rating system and ignoring the bugs, the AE system is still being used to mass-produce slurry.
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In your opinion. I've played some very good, well-written, and creative arcs. Just because they don't meet with your approval doesn't mean they're not good, just that you don't personally like them.
The fact that a lot of people are having a lot of fun with it (and I'm not even including the farmers in this statement) means it is a success. That's what playing a game is all about; having fun.
You don't have to enjoy my arcs; my family and friends will and that's what matters most. If others enjoy them too, that's just icing on the cake.
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Sometimes people mock my judgment, but I'll have the last laugh. I'm helping out this Nigerian widow recover a ton of money, and when this plan works out I'm gonna be RICH. It's been a little complicated, but we're at the last step where all I have to do is give her my bank account details so she can deposit my millions.
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I've never paid attention to you before, Sardan. Clearly this was a mistake on my part. You will be spared when I begin my great purge.
Every time some of us pointed out the detailed plans laid out in the August survey, many of you were quick to say "Hey that was just marketing folks regurgitating all our wish lists. No way all that stuff is planned!" Let's do a little review:
MA: Check.
Side switching in Going Rogue: Check.
Power customization in i16: Check.
But I'm sure we'll never see a Spy archetype or universal enhancement slots, right? If only they had put items on that survey that the devs were actually planning on implementing!
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.