Mob-Stealing, or Lending a Helping Hand?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-05-31 06:08 in Player Questions
The more common term hereabouts is kill-stealing. It is considered impolite, though there is no formal rule against it. If another player follows you around doing it constantly, there may be grounds for a petition claiming harassment.
I usually feel that a single instance of it is not worth fretting about. Usually, if someone else jumps a spawn I am fighting, I simply leave the scene. Yes, I will admit, sometimes in the hope that they may have been counting on my presence to keep some of the mobs off their neck, and will in turn be defeated.
Do be aware that experience and body count are shared in CoX. That is - you put a hit (I think it is 25% of their total hp) on an enemy and then someone else delivers the killing blow. You both get a proportional amount of the experience and if in a defeat X scenario, you both get credit for the kill. I don't know if that takes some of the sting out of the sitution for you.
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
You don't really need to whine about kill-stealing in this game, since the XP reward system still gives rewards for mobs you damaged, and street hunts are fairly rarely done. If you're hunting and someone tries to help you, you can ask them to team up with you so you both get credit.
Kill-stealing is a bigger deal in other games that make players queue up for a chance to fight a certain mob that is required for a quest, but this game saw how dumb that was. It's really not worth fretting about. If someone's following you around killing everything you try to fight, go into a mission instance and leave them out in the cold.
[ QUOTE ]
You don't really need to whine about kill-stealing in this game, since the XP reward system still gives rewards for mobs you damaged
[/ QUOTE ]
Reduced xp, though. And it is a problem for a slow damaging AT like controllers when they've gone through the trouble of locking down mob(s) and burning them down only to have, say, a Blaster come by, take them all out, and end up getting the lion's share of the xp in a couple shots.
It *IS* extremely rude to KS. And, no, I'm not going to invite some random jerk to my team because he decides to jump in on my fights while I'm soloing.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You don't really need to whine about kill-stealing in this game, since the XP reward system still gives rewards for mobs you damaged
[/ QUOTE ]
Reduced xp, though. And it is a problem for a slow damaging AT like controllers when they've gone through the trouble of locking down mob(s) and burning them down only to have, say, a Blaster come by, take them all out, and end up getting the lion's share of the xp in a couple shots.
It *IS* extremely rude to KS. And, no, I'm not going to invite some random jerk to my team because he decides to jump in on my fights while I'm soloing.
[/ QUOTE ]
This, and this exactly.
Nothing is more disconcerting as having a blaster or scrapper (and with the influx of higher levels into Atlas recently), often a higher level one at that, come by and one-shot the mobs you've been carefully setting up and locking down. The early levels, especially, is the time when I'm paying attention to how the mobs take damage, how they resist damage and I start formulating my play style against them, especially on ATs I may not have as much experience with. And as was stated, with controllers or defenders, this takes time. Having some higher level goon come by and blow all my mobs to kingdom come isn't impressive to me, it's annoying as hell.
They call this game City of Heroes. Oh, really? Maybe City of Jerks. I haven't seen a real hero in this game in quite a while.
If someone really wants to lend a helping hand then a buff or non-damaging debuff is usually welcome. I was definitely grateful to the passing controller who feared a very purple Paragon Protector who was in the process of shredding my scrapper at the time 
Don't forget, there ARE kids in the game (pre-teen, some very young.) Generally I'll do this:
First time - tell them "Thanks, I don't need the help though/not teaming right now" or some variant of that.
If they keep following me, right click, grab their info. If it's a kid playing, the parent may have their chat box minimized among other things - and will often have "This is being played by a 5 year old, they can't see chat" or some such in it. In which case, sigh, go to Wentworths or your SG base (since even wanting to help them... they won't see it) and kill a couple of minutes while they get bored.
If it's not a kid - often giving some lame response back (some I've gotten were "lol ur takin too long" when it takes a lower level three hits to kill a mob, or "you were in trouble" when I'm at full health and 3/4 END) I'll tell them again, I don't need the help and am not interested in teaming. If they continue to follow me through two or three more spawns doing the same thing, stop, /petition for harassment, drop them on global ignore and hit the SG base. With the timestamp on the petition, the GMs can see in the chat log that I've specifically said I didn't want or need help and they continued to "assist." Don't bother telling this type they're /petitioned, just get out of their sight and let them get bored.
Most of the time I've had it happen, it's either an accident/simul-attack from a corner, or a kid. Also, yeah, don't forget that anything that doesn't do damage (a Rad/ debuff, ice slick, earthquake, tar patch, taunt) doesn't affect your XP at all.
I almost always see this happen in Atlas Park or Mercy Island. Rarely anywhere else. As such I figure it's usually newer players who don't know the system yet.
If it does happen, I stop fighting the enemies immediately, meaning they have to deal with it. I send them a polite "Please don't kill steal" message and move elsewhere. If it happens again, I call them out by name. If it happens a third time (has only once), I report them.
Sometimes people will insist and say that I seemed like I was in trouble, or it was an "in character" assistance, or something like that. I just let them know I don't need their help, and if I die it's my own fault (which is my universal policy), and if I need a team I'll form one. Once or twice I've gotten into a morality argument about people in trouble and there not being time to ask for help. I advised them it's best to always ask, because jumping right in is frowned upon, and you don't know the other person's motives. They could have it under control even if you don't think they do, or could even be TRYING to die.
If I'm ever in a situation where I think I may be at fault, or perceived to be at fault like if we both attack a group about the same time, I'll stop attacking, apologize, and move on. That way I can avoid any conflicts and let them know it wasn't intentional.
Generally, if you explain what's going on, people will listen. If you're polite about it, they'll pay attention to what you have to say. And it's good to educate new players on CoH ethics, especially about things that aren't written in a textbox anywhere.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget, there ARE kids in the game (pre-teen, some very young.) Generally I'll do this:
First time - tell them "Thanks, I don't need the help though/not teaming right now" or some variant of that.
If they keep following me, right click, grab their info. If it's a kid playing, the parent may have their chat box minimized among other things - and will often have "This is being played by a 5 year old, they can't see chat" or some such in it. In which case, sigh, go to Wentworths or your SG base (since even wanting to help them... they won't see it) and kill a couple of minutes while they get bored.
If it's not a kid - often giving some lame response back (some I've gotten were "lol ur takin too long" when it takes a lower level three hits to kill a mob, or "you were in trouble" when I'm at full health and 3/4 END) I'll tell them again, I don't need the help and am not interested in teaming. If they continue to follow me through two or three more spawns doing the same thing, stop, /petition for harassment, drop them on global ignore and hit the SG base. With the timestamp on the petition, the GMs can see in the chat log that I've specifically said I didn't want or need help and they continued to "assist." Don't bother telling this type they're /petitioned, just get out of their sight and let them get bored.
Most of the time I've had it happen, it's either an accident/simul-attack from a corner, or a kid. Also, yeah, don't forget that anything that doesn't do damage (a Rad/ debuff, ice slick, earthquake, tar patch, taunt) doesn't affect your XP at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
This.
[ QUOTE ]
I almost always see this happen in Atlas Park or Mercy Island. Rarely anywhere else. As such I figure it's usually newer players who don't know the system yet.
If it does happen, I stop fighting the enemies immediately, meaning they have to deal with it. I send them a polite "Please don't kill steal" message and move elsewhere. If it happens again, I call them out by name. If it happens a third time (has only once), I report them.
Sometimes people will insist and say that I seemed like I was in trouble, or it was an "in character" assistance, or something like that. I just let them know I don't need their help, and if I die it's my own fault (which is my universal policy), and if I need a team I'll form one. Once or twice I've gotten into a morality argument about people in trouble and there not being time to ask for help. I advised them it's best to always ask, because jumping right in is frowned upon, and you don't know the other person's motives. They could have it under control even if you don't think they do, or could even be TRYING to die.
If I'm ever in a situation where I think I may be at fault, or perceived to be at fault like if we both attack a group about the same time, I'll stop attacking, apologize, and move on. That way I can avoid any conflicts and let them know it wasn't intentional.
Generally, if you explain what's going on, people will listen. If you're polite about it, they'll pay attention to what you have to say. And it's good to educate new players on CoH ethics, especially about things that aren't written in a textbox anywhere.
[/ QUOTE ]
This as well.
Not woth stressing, maybe they didn't know.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
Been a long time since I have seen one of these threads.
<QR>
True, maybe they don't know, which is why the first response is to ask them to back off. Usually, however, the response is either to ignore me and keep on or get snarky at me about it.
And about the possibility of kids playing and the parents have closed their chat window? Honestly, if they parent thinks they can't handle chat, they shouldn't be letting them play the game in the first place. Sorry, this game is rated T. If your kid can't play without interfering with others playing, don't inflict them on us. Or, at the very least, don't just let them go unmonitored and use the game (and us players) as a babysitter.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
[ QUOTE ]
Do be aware that experience and body count are shared in CoX. That is - you put a hit (I think it is 25% of their total hp) on an enemy and then someone else delivers the killing blow. You both get a proportional amount of the experience and if in a defeat X scenario, you both get credit for the kill. I don't know if that takes some of the sting out of the sitution for you.
[/ QUOTE ]
The rewards are proportional if you do any damage at all. In order to get 'kill credit', you need to do at least 10% of the damage. (It used to be 25%.)
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Well, I used to jump into mobs "thinking that I was saving the person" but now I know i'm not.
Flameanator (50+1 Fire/Fire Tanker - Justice)
Mr.Defendo (50 FF/Arch Defender - Justice)
Willing Havoc (45 Elec/WP Brute - Freedom)
Paragon Lad (32 Claws/SR Scrapper - Justice)
Global: @Mr.Defendo
[ QUOTE ]
I almost always see this happen in Atlas Park or Mercy Island. Rarely anywhere else.
[/ QUOTE ]Partially because outside hunt missions, killing enemies on the street becomes uncommon everywhere else.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Thanks everyone for the quick replies and the good advice. I think knowing what the community thinks about this will help me in general to be less tense if someone else interrupts one of my fights, since part of my concern won't be whether or not I should be concerned. It's harder to loosen up about what others are doing when you think it's a reflection on something you shouldn't be doing.
It's also good to know I won't be losing all of the rewards for my hard work or that there are ways to deal with it that won't mean overreacting if it gets too crazy. Thanks again. You guys are all great.
[ QUOTE ]
And about the possibility of kids playing and the parents have closed their chat window? Honestly, if they parent thinks they can't handle chat, they shouldn't be letting them play the game in the first place. Sorry, this game is rated T. If your kid can't play without interfering with others playing, don't inflict them on us. Or, at the very least, don't just let them go unmonitored and use the game (and us players) as a babysitter.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I have to agree with this as well. If the kid is too young to handle a T-rated game by themselves then the parent has no one to blame but themselves if junior gets upset or learns new words.
^^ sup regdate buddy
Yeah I hate killstealers, one attacked the group I was fighting in Atlas Park and I had to walk almost a hundred feet to find another group, it was awful and ruined my entire game day.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but someone jumping in on one group is meaningless and you should just let it slide like water off a duck's back. If they follow you and do it constantly, that's harassment, and you should petition. Otherwise, you just look like a whiny baby. As previously noted, it's not like those hellions are rare spawns or anything. Chances are very good that it was an accident and won't happen again. No need to attribute it to malice.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And about the possibility of kids playing and the parents have closed their chat window? Honestly, if they parent thinks they can't handle chat, they shouldn't be letting them play the game in the first place. Sorry, this game is rated T. If your kid can't play without interfering with others playing, don't inflict them on us. Or, at the very least, don't just let them go unmonitored and use the game (and us players) as a babysitter.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I have to agree with this as well. If the kid is too young to handle a T-rated game by themselves then the parent has no one to blame but themselves if junior gets upset or learns new words.
[/ QUOTE ]
Have to disagree, simply because I *know* some of those parents. They'll be nearby and watching anyway - but just because the chat window's there doesn't mean their kid has to be exposed to what goes on in it. Sometimes they DO just want to run around playing with or like their mom or dad, because they have someone dressed colorfully doing *stuff.*
There are definitely some malicious players who take advantage of spawns agroed to a tanker or locked down by a controller. Very often these blasters and scrappers will "come help" knowing they can get quick and easy xps, kills or rewards without effort.
It is not just in Atlas Park. Happens also in P.I. and even level 50s sometimes killsteal on other players. My tanker was fighting a Fake Nemesis and some blaster appeared out of nowhere did Aim-BuildUP-Inferno right in my face and killed my target. That was not nice.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And about the possibility of kids playing and the parents have closed their chat window? Honestly, if they parent thinks they can't handle chat, they shouldn't be letting them play the game in the first place. Sorry, this game is rated T. If your kid can't play without interfering with others playing, don't inflict them on us. Or, at the very least, don't just let them go unmonitored and use the game (and us players) as a babysitter.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I have to agree with this as well. If the kid is too young to handle a T-rated game by themselves then the parent has no one to blame but themselves if junior gets upset or learns new words.
[/ QUOTE ]
Have to disagree, simply because I *know* some of those parents. They'll be nearby and watching anyway - but just because the chat window's there doesn't mean their kid has to be exposed to what goes on in it. Sometimes they DO just want to run around playing with or like their mom or dad, because they have someone dressed colorfully doing *stuff.*
[/ QUOTE ]
It is a Teen game. Personally i think kids should not even touch that game. It is not for them. Simple as that.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
[ QUOTE ]
It is a Teen game. Personally i think kids should not even touch that game. It is not for them. Simple as that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well it is up to the parent to decide, that is the reason for the rating system. The only thing I really see that could warrant this as 'teen' is the online experience with other players. The gameplay is certainly E10+.
Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
Crey Radiation Tank (Exalted): 50 Rad/Rad Corr
Servers: Exalted, Triumph, Champion
Alts: 32
Steam Profile
I'm usually pretty cool about people "helping" me take down a spawn. I give them 1 or 2 warnings, and if that doesn't solve it I tend to /gignore them and go drink some water or something for 2 minutes until they get bored. The one thing that really REALLY burns my biscuits is when I am running around AP or PP on my lil lowbie and some lv 45+ jerk comes in and completely slaughters the groups I am working on. Kill stealing for free XP/phatlewtz is one thing, KS'ing just to be a butthead is quite another 
I give one warning on the first KS, then broadcast something like "Hey lowbies, <name> is a KSer, keep your eyes peeled!"
They usually stop after that, and the other low level players are usually grateful for the heads-up.
City of Heroes taught me that when the world is burning, you don't just stand by and watch, you grab a fire extinguisher and do whatever you can to stop it-even if it's not much at all. Sign the petition to keep City of Heroes alive HERE.
@MissKyo, Leader of the Teamsters coalition on Protector
The DEVs tried to create the game so that there would be no such thing as kill-stealing. In this regards, having "Arrest X# of Y" missions was a glaring oversight.
The only thing that can really be stolen is the actual arresting of the enemy - that final blow that puts them down. Most of the game/xp is not related to the final "arrest" but to the damage that you have generated to the enemies. The only time that it is is when you are on a head-count mission, and those are the exception to the rule.
If someone is following you around doing this - waiting until you have almost killed something and then making the final hit in order to take credit for your arrest - then you could petition the person.
If someone is randomly running by and helps out with a mob?
If I see a character is hurt (I always have the health bars running), I will do what I can to help them.
This could be anything from heals, buffs, giving insp, and taunts to actually beating up mobs that are chasing them or finishing off a foe or two if the player is about to fall from lack of hit points.
As far as that goes, if the character falls and the enemies are still there - should you arrest them or leave them?
I figure everyone wants what experience they earned so I tend to take out the enemy that were being fought if I can't defend/aide the character that was fighting the enemies fast enough. At that point, the fallen character gets xp credit for their part in defeating the whole mob. This is xp that they wouldn't get if the mob wasn't defeated.
I've also run around the City healing and bubbling characters. Some feel that that his cheating as well. It's all a matter of perspective.
In this game, there is no such thing as kill-stealing. Heroes are helping heroes in battle. And villains, well they are just villains.
You will get credit for the damage that you do.
Don't sweat the little stuff.
99% of the time the other person thought that they were helping.
A simple tell in local "I'm okay" would be enough for most players to back off.
I can't say one time in the last several years that I have gotten involved with an injured hero fighting a mob where the player said anything negative to me about helping out. I would say close to 80% of the time I got a "thanks", "thank you", or "ty" in local, broadcast, or a direct tell from the character that I had assisted.
I don't know if anyone else has cared enough to ask, but I figured I may as well, since this is something that has bugged me a bit.
Every so often, especially in Atlas Park or Galaxy City, sometimes in later levels like Steel Canyon, I'll be in the thick of a pack of mobs when another hero will jump in and take half of the mobs I'm fighting away. In other MMORPGs I've played, this kind of thing has been discouraged, and I would assume the same applies here. Sure, you may have thought I was in over my head and been trying to help, but how did you know I didn't need those Hellions for a Defeat 10 mission?
Thing is, I'm not sure. I haven't seen anything anywhere in City of Heroes or on the site to indicate anything wrong. Am I overreacting? Because I don't want to be miffed at something I shouldn't be.