Why on earth after 5 years Is there no Log Out...
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-05-18 22:01 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I don't buy your complaint that it inconveniences you.
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Good thing I never said it inconvenienced me nor did I start this thread. I said it'd be nice to have the option.
Get over yourself.
You can't be trusted to keep your own account safe so no one can have the option to log out to character selection? Please.
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I get the distinct sensation that you've never worked in customer service or tech support. Am I right?
Believe me, the stupid things that people do because it "seemed like a good idea at the time" would astound you. If it saves CS some work to have everyone take an extra second to input their password when switching characters (which is really all it takes unless you're an INCREDIBLY slow typist) then it is worth it.
[/ QUOTE ]From the fact he can't take his position without being offended I can only assume the has a reason to be offended. For shame on you Beany for trying to do naughty things!
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Exactly.
Honestly it's not even that big a deal. All these people talking about how a bus load of people are swarming around their PC waiting to delete their toons are full of it anyway.
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You mean to say that your real argument is that we just don't need passwords at all?
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Is that what I said?
Pretty sure I never said I even have the problems people are claiming to have in this thread on either side of the argument.
All i said is every player should have the option to choose if they want to be able to log out to character select or not and that it should be selectable from ACCOUNT MANAGEMENT for security.
Maybe everyone so busy ranting against this proposal should bother reading it first.
I don't think a single person in favor of this has said it shouldn't be an option that people can enable or disable depending on their preference.
[/ QUOTE ]Even making it an option probably doesn't look like a good idea to the people in charge.
"You made it possible for me to disable the security, so it's YOUR fault __________ deleted all my characters when I left my computer unattended!"
I'd like to have it as an option, too. I live alone, so the only one I have to worry about is my cat. But not everyone is as smart as you or me, so I just can't see it ever happening.
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You don't need a perfect world you just need common sense.
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In a perfect world, everyone would have common sense. Unfortunately, we live in the real world were it seems to be in short supply.
Can I live in your perfect world please?
Here's a semi-"true" story...
Be sure to read this part. I emphasized the pertinent portion.
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Ah, but was this a true story? Well, sort of, but not quite the "true" stuff ended with the tech's discovering that he was dealing with a user who was attempting to access a computer during a power outage. Everything from that point on is what he wished he could have said but wisely kept to himself.
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There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
Its a pain, say when you have 9 toons and you want to log in all of them to check on them.
lets take WoW for an example. it has 11million plus people who play it, regardless if you like the game or not I would say the security is pretty good. Why not have a password protected option for folks who WANT to have it log out to log in screen. or a
/login <toon name> option that would make it so you have to know your own toon name to log into it.
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Its a pain, say when you have 9 toons and you want to log in all of them to check on them. .
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160-170 here last I checked.
It's not that big of a pain.
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If you are playing the game in an environment where your system can be compromised, you probably shouldn't be playing the game there at all.
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Ok then I guess you are offering to buy computers for all the customers that don't own one and have to play in places like internet cafes, colleges, libraries, game stores etc. that have internet access.
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That would make the most sense. I mean, come ON, it's taking a whole extra 30 seconds and some keystrokes! Let's eliminate this abomination!!!! 
Dec out.
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160-170 here last I checked.
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/e praise
I bow to your altism, sir! People think I'M nuts, and I've just barely cleared the century mark. 
Dec out.
It's funny that this is the only NC game that doesn't have a logout to character selection yet some people can't get how stupid it is that this game doesn't have it.
Co* has the most character slots available of any MMO on the market and yet to log out to character selection option. Seriously? It's not even the second largest MMO. There's no legion of people just waiting for lowered security just to delete your toons.
The main reason the argument against having this option is so stupid is if someone really wants to delete your toons and you walked away from your pc they can just install a keylogger on your computer and get all the information they want.
You people throw invalid argument after invalid argument against being able to log out to character selection. Keyloggers, simply opening up your notepad items, deleting vital information and files, or erasing your hard drive and disabling your restore points. So many options and you think this malicious person only cares about your stupid toons on a video game? Really?
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You people throw invalid argument after invalid argument against being able to log out to character selection. Keyloggers, simply opening up your notepad items, deleting vital information and files, or erasing your hard drive and disabling your restore points. So many options and you think this malicious person only cares about your stupid toons on a video game? Really?
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The arguments aren't invalid, as these things actually DO happen. What you're debating is their significance, not their validity. The counter argument being that the time lost going back to log-in isn't significant, therefore why even bother messing with it.
Dec out.
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You people throw invalid argument after invalid argument against being able to log out to character selection. Keyloggers, simply opening up your notepad items, deleting vital information and files, or erasing your hard drive and disabling your restore points. So many options and you think this malicious person only cares about your stupid toons on a video game? Really?
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The arguments aren't invalid, as these things actually DO happen. What you're debating is their significance, not their validity. The counter argument being that the time lost going back to log-in isn't significant, therefore why even bother messing with it.
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Quote where I said anything about time lost. I didn't.
My argument is that is should be an option to those who want it and available through Account Management. At no time have I presented any other argument.
Those other arguments are invalid because any number of things can happen to their PC leaving it unattended and logged into their user account. They're not safeguarding their own PCs regardless of the game itself so that's their own problem.
There's still no reason presented why it shouldn't be an option for those who want it with the added security of enabling or disabling it being available only through Account Management.
Unless you feel like claiming I said something I didn't say all over again.
Is it really so outrageous having to wait 30 seconds then retyping your password?
My tip: have a nice poetry book by the side of your computer. Log and flip to a random page, and read a poem. You might be surprised that some of them take more than 30 seconds to read.
I'd recommend Shelley, Blake or Shakespeare's Sonnets. Some Cioran aforisms if you play Villains, maybe.
Why does it bother you if someone has the option to reduce security on their own account?
I really don't understand all the apprehension. This is more ridiculous than the farmer vs anti-farmer garbage.
If anyone for this had said they wanted to impose this function on everyone regardless of if they wanted it or not I'd be against it...but no one has.
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Why does it bother you if someone has the option to reduce security on their own account?
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Because it's unnecessary. I mean, seriously, you're quibbling over the time it takes to type a password here. "After five years", how long does it take you to type the same password? Mine's burned into motor memory by now, I can do it in 0.2 seconds.
"I'd like the right to do something dumb." Well, no. Here's a policy that safeguards the vast majority of the gamer population, so there. If you want the right to do something dumb, post your credit card here, and be sure to include those newfangled identification numbers while you're at it. At least someone here who's had to listen to you would profit by it.
@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
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Why does it bother you if someone has the option to reduce security on their own account?
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Because it's unnecessary. I mean, seriously, you're quibbling over the time it takes to type a password here. "After five years", how long does it take you to type the same password? Mine's burned into motor memory by now, I can do it in 0.2 seconds.
"I'd like the right to do something dumb." Well, no. Here's a policy that safeguards the vast majority of the gamer population, so there. If you want the right to do something dumb, post your credit card here, and be sure to include those newfangled identification numbers while you're at it. At least someone here who's had to listen to you would profit by it.
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To add further to this...
You can willingly reduce the security at your own risk, the second we stop having to put warning labels on damn near everything in the world to protect people from their own stupidity.
We live in a day and age where for some crazy reason, some people feel that they're not responsible for their own actions. If something bad happens to them, clearly it's someone else's fault for not protecting them from themselves. NCSoft is doing a smart thing here, by making things as secure as possible so that they are not liable for you or anyone else being a freakin' moron. That's what EULA and Licensing agreements are for, and that's what net-security measures on game clients are all about.
Making sure that when you do something retarded, NCSoft isn't at fault, and can clearly point out when and where they did X to prevent it, that you ignored of your own volition.
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You people throw invalid argument after invalid argument against being able to log out to character selection. Keyloggers, simply opening up your notepad items, deleting vital information and files, or erasing your hard drive and disabling your restore points. So many options and you think this malicious person only cares about your stupid toons on a video game? Really?
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The arguments aren't invalid, as these things actually DO happen. What you're debating is their significance, not their validity. The counter argument being that the time lost going back to log-in isn't significant, therefore why even bother messing with it.
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Quote where I said anything about time lost. I didn't.
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You don't need to say it. It's the only possible reason to object to it. And, if you'll note, I didn't SAY you said it, I said it was the counter-argument used.
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My argument is that is should be an option to those who want it and available through Account Management. At no time have I presented any other argument.
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I don't really have an opinion on that one way or the other (non-issue for me).
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Those other arguments are invalid because any number of things can happen to their PC leaving it unattended and logged into their user account. They're not safeguarding their own PCs regardless of the game itself so that's their own problem.
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A very libertarian view that NCSoft obviously does not share.
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There's still no reason presented why it shouldn't be an option for those who want it with the added security of enabling or disabling it being available only through Account Management.
Unless you feel like claiming I said something I didn't say all over again.
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There were plenty of reasons given. You dismiss them all as "stupid", seemingly because they don't apply specifically to you.
Dec out.
Of course, those of us who aren't being retarded, ever, are punished because other people are being retarded.
Not a big punishment, mind you, and I fully understand NCSoft need to do this to cover their [censored] and not have to deal with "omg help I got my acc hacked!!!" a hundred times a day. It's the spirit of the thing I don't like ; I don't mind warnings, but being restricted because of the stupidity of others always irks me.
Some other games have made a "we don't restore hacked accounts" policy and it works well for them. I'd rather see the same thing for this game, but in the end, it's not a big deal (... except when the login server is down).
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Of course, those of us who aren't being retarded, ever, are punished because other people are being retarded.
Not a big punishment, mind you, and I fully understand NCSoft need to do this to cover their [censored] and not have to deal with "omg help I got my acc hacked!!!" a hundred times a day. It's the spirit of the thing I don't like ; I don't mind warnings, but being restricted because of the stupidity of others always irks me.
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Happens at airports and the DMV, too.
Heck, I'm on a No-Fly list right now because my name is too close to a known terrorist (meaning I get extra-heavy ID checks just for my name, until I go through the process of taking my name off said list; Being as I have no reason to fly anywhere, I haven't bothered).
US airports.
Yeah, ok, you're going to tell me this is a US game, and I'll have to agree. 
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US airports.
Yeah, ok, you're going to tell me this is a US game, and I'll have to agree.
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Actually, it was just the quickest example I had on-hand. I don't know enough about international culture to make such a claim in that particular direction, but I'm sure if you think about it you can find something.
Stupid isn't limited to a single geographical region, after all, and sadly enough neither are dumb ideas to protect stupid.
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Of course, those of us who aren't being retarded, ever, are punished because other people are being retarded.
Not a big punishment, mind you, and I fully understand NCSoft need to do this to cover their [censored] and not have to deal with "omg help I got my acc hacked!!!" a hundred times a day. It's the spirit of the thing I don't like ; I don't mind warnings, but being restricted because of the stupidity of others always irks me.
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Happens at airports and the DMV, too.
Heck, I'm on a No-Fly list right now because my name is too close to a known terrorist (meaning I get extra-heavy ID checks just for my name, until I go through the process of taking my name off said list; Being as I have no reason to fly anywhere, I haven't bothered).
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Wow, that has slightly got to suck (I say slightly because you already said you dont need to fly anywhere.)
As for the topic..... would it be nice to go right to my character list on logout? Sure. Is it something that needs to be changed? Not really. In closing.... what the hell /unsigned.
"YOU DID NOT READ THE THREAD. GO READ THE LONG, LONG THREAD.
Then, perhaps your butt cheeks will relinquish their grip on your chin." -The_Zekiran
There's a solution here.
We can disable the security check, and force BeanPie to take every single call that comes in to NCSoft from someone who has a problem as a result of the change. And he'd have to monitor the forums 24/7 to catch any complaint threads.
That way there's no burden on the game's staff or the playerbase, and he can have his change.
He might not get as much playing time as he expects, though.
Until he's willing to do that, he's basically talking about imposing time and trouble costs on other people. If he's unwilling to do the work himself, he might find them unwilling to do it too. A conundrum indeed.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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Its a pain, say when you have 9 toons and you want to log in all of them to check on them.
lets take WoW for an example. it has 11million plus people who play it, regardless if you like the game or not I would say the security is pretty good. Why not have a password protected option for folks who WANT to have it log out to log in screen. or a
/login <toon name> option that would make it so you have to know your own toon name to log into it.
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*shrug* I have over 2 dozen toons. I check on them regularly. I did at one time have well over 60, and I still checked on them regularly. It wouldn't change anything - the 30 second timer would still exist because the reason for *that* hasn't changed, it would only take you the 1 less second to enter your password and click a button. You're asking to open the floodgates to more CS problems to save yourself 9 seconds the once in a blue moon you want to check on all your characters. Umm, no.
And please don't compare to WOW. Blizzard has more money than God and could easily have many many times the CS people per subscriber. It's also a case of "if your friends all did it, should you?"
And to whomever is championing the "make it an option!", umm how is that really any help? Little jimmie could still have his characters deleted by his brother if he knows how to do it - scroll through the options, turn on log to characters screen, do exactly that and delete the characters or steal their stuff. It makes no sense at all for the devs to do this.
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There's still no reason presented why it shouldn't be an option for those who want it with the added security of enabling or disabling it being available only through Account Management.
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This is a true statement, if someone wants to go into their account management screen and check a box that says "This will enable quitting to character select screen, I accept responsibility for any consequences of enabling this option" or something to that effect. Frankly I don't understand why people are so bothered by this.
~MM
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There's still no reason presented why it shouldn't be an option for those who want it with the added security of enabling or disabling it being available only through Account Management.
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This is a true statement, if someone wants to go into their account management screen and check a box that says "This will enable quitting to character select screen, I accept responsibility for any consequences of enabling this option" or something to that effect. Frankly I don't understand why people are so bothered by this.
~MM
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Because if someone knows how to do this, when the game is still on, there you go. They can go 'lawlz' enable the security lax, and then proceed. it's not helping the security people are concerned with.
With love,
Me! <3
My Characters
Story Arcs Looking for Feedback:
Serving Vengeance:#419748 (For Villains/Vigilantes) (Drama/Mystery) (Viable Within Canon)
Dark Moon Rising: #13170 (For Heroes/Vigilantes) (Horror/Mystery) (Non-Canon)
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If you are playing the game in an environment where your system can be compromised, you probably shouldn't be playing the game there at all.
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So don't play the game unless you have a secure room to which only you have the key, and only you have access to the computer? Disallow installation on any laptop?
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No to both of these.
I was not sufficiently precise in my original statement so let me rephrase.
If you are playing the game in an environment where there is a reasonable chance that the security of the computer could be compromised, you probably should not play the game in that environment unless you can take reasonable precautions to insure that security will be maintained.
A common example is having a young child with active fingers and a curious mind. You shouldn't leave your computer unattended with the child in the room because the kid doesn't know the damage he or she can potentially wreak with a couple of errant keystrokes or mouse clicks. The solution to this can vary, depending on preference or circumstance. You could take the child with you when you leave the room or if that's not realistic ("mommy has to go potty"), hit CTRL-ALT-DEL to invoke the Task Manager and lock the system until you get back, something which only takes a few moments.
What I'm really saying though is that the responsibility for what happens to your game and your characters is yours, that's all. How far one wants to go in keeping his or her system and game secure is up to the individual.
I would be fine with having an instant logout option and having the option default to OFF or as I mentioned earlier, compromising so it is only 15 seconds long.
I understand that many are satisfied with the status quo and that's fine. I can't say I'm particularly invested in the debate one way or the other.