Why on earth after 5 years Is there no Log Out...
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-05-18 22:01 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Qr - if I couldntbtrust someone with my coh password, I'm not sure I'd be happy trusting them with my actual life. 
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I'm not sure I'd be entirely happy with the idea that someone would place the same value on my life as they do my characters in a video game.
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To some people, their character has more value...
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Yea but the argument is null in the presence of their "Don't give anyone your PW/you are responsible" rule >_>
So anyone who suffers from getting chars deleted by younger brat brother/upset gf/w/e is already kinda at fault in the first place? Just cause some other people are unfortunate/not responsible doesn't mean everyone should be limited right? O_o
I /sign the ability to log to server/character selection screen, or at LEAST the ability to have it as an option, turn on/off'able.
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Qr - if I couldntbtrust someone with my coh password, I'm not sure I'd be happy trusting them with my actual life.
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I'm not sure I'd be entirely happy with the idea that someone would place the same value on my life as they do my characters in a video game.
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To some people, their character has more value...
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I wouldn't use that as an example at all.
This is someone who had serious mental disorders, likely that existed long before he started playing EQ.
(I've got a few of my own, and yes, I have at times been on psychological medication for it - no I'm not crazy, but yes people with mental disorders play these games.)
Simple truth is, the underlying cause of his suicide is almost assuredly the disorder. EQ sounds like an escape, much as I used to use other games the same way. I was lucky enough to have some good friends who kept me from winding up in a similar situation however.
Mental illness isn't a joke, even if the "guy shot himself cause of EQ" line sounds funny - it really isn't.
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Serious mental disorders after becoming addicted to EQ. He lived rather normally before then and had a history of playing other online games. I'm curious what caused the reaction in EQ and nowhere else he's played...
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So anyone who suffers from getting chars deleted by younger brat brother/upset gf/w/e is already kinda at fault in the first place?
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some people choose to be rather vindictive...one minute you're sitting down doing your laundry, next minute there's a fight over a dish in the sink...seriously...w-t-f
My guess? He always had the disorder but it manifested as he became an adult. That happens a fair bit actually.
My bipolar for instance didn't really show up heavily until I was 17. It was always there mind you - but other factors mitigated it and (this is going to *sound* strange, but bear with me here) I think the fact that there was so much OTHER stress going on in my life that there was no chance before then to really discern what was stress and what was innate disorder.
We don't know anything about his history really, beyond what his mom says; and as sad as it is, parents are the source I trust the least when it comes to the mental state of their child, as they tend to have strong biases. (And given the stigma of mental disorder; it's FAR easier to blame a game than to admit something is 'wrong' with your kid)
Of course that's a pet theory; there could have been other factors too - but I substantially doubt EQ was the cause.
*edit*
Should add - I doubt EQ is the cause, but rather a symptom of the problem.
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
...what the hey?
I figured that the logout system is standard NCsoft policy. Most other NCsoft games, like Guild Wars, are aimed at the Korean and Asian markets, where most people play the game with their friends in public internet cafes. There, it's a very handy safety feature to deter random strangers from messing with people's accounts.
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...what the hey?
I figured that the logout system is standard NCsoft policy. Most other NCsoft games, like Guild Wars, are aimed at the Korean and Asian markets, where most people play the game with their friends in public internet cafes. There, it's a very handy safety feature to deter random strangers from messing with people's accounts.
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Except Guild Wars *has* a "log out to charselect" feature.
Character index
I'm pretty amazed that people listed their own stupidity as a reason not to have a log out to character screen function.
Is it really so hard to log out completely while in public or around a cat that likes to tap dance on a keyboard? Really?
I think the bigger problem BeanPie, is when your mid mission, need to take a bio-break and have to get up. Logging out resets the mission.
Here's why that's important:
If someone around does happen to be mischievous, currently they can only muck around on that character - they can't even get far enough to delete that one, let alone any of the others.
If they altered it to allow a log-to-character screen, said person could get to your characters.
So ultimately, someone is going to get inconvenienced somewhere - either in having to reset a mission, or in having to log back in to get to character select.
Not that I personally think it's a big deal either way; but that's the logic I'm going off of for why it is as it is.
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
Stop playing in public then or take your laptop with you. If you're in a public place and have to leave the pc then just log out. If your mission resets then that's what you get for playing in public.
How is that a good reason for no character select screen?
WoW is by far the largest MMO on the market with people constantly stealing passwords by using keyloggers, yet the character select screen has never been a problem.
There's no good reason not to have a character select screen, What's with all these soloers who play CoH in public anyway?
As noted earlier, sometimes it's family members in your own home.
Unless you consider "In my room" to be "public" somehow.
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
I spent Sunday morning logging in all 32 of my alts on Virtue for the Jubilant badge. Sure, the repeated need to login with password was somewhat annoying, but rarely do I ever have to login that often.
CoH being my first MMO, I just never thought anything of it. I figured it was just par for the course. Frankly, it doesn't bother me all that much, but I suppose it could be a handy feature.
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As noted earlier, sometimes it's family members in your own home.
Unless you consider "In my room" to be "public" somehow.
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For starters if you think your family would go around deleting your toons then your family...well they're not all that bright. Secondly why are they in your room bothering your computer? Finally there's a switch user function for PCs that wouldn't require you to log off your account. Try using a password.
Again personal stupidity is no reason not to have a log out to character screen function.
There are ways around every excuse you can throw. I've been playing MMOs since UO and I haven't once had anyone in my own home attempted to delete or even play my toons. Likewise I always switch to user login when I leave the room anyway.
Learn to use your pc.
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I'm pretty amazed that people listed their own stupidity as a reason not to have a log out to character screen function.
Is it really so hard to log out completely while in public or around a cat that likes to tap dance on a keyboard? Really?
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I wasn't listing any stupidity as a reason for it. The cat story was just a cute example but hey, be a pompous ignorant all you want. I deal with worse on a daily basis.
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Riiiiight
Life or password, death or deletion....hmmmm, toughie
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Cake please.
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
I've been playing them since EQ1, I'm not a newbie at this either. I *have* had people try to delete my characters - once while I was right there in the chair. (A so-called friend thought I was playing too much, and to break me of the habit tried to delete my main while I was sitting right there talking to him. Obviously I stopped it, but still. And no, he wasn't very bright, but it's not like I can read minds as to someone's intent either.)
You can't honestly believe that it's practical for everyone to keep the rest of their family/friends/significant others away from their PC.
You also can't honestly assume setting up an alternate user account and switching to it when you go AFK is less hassle than re-logging when you switch characters.
Oh and there's also the possibility among minors of playing on a family PC; where the use of alternate accounts and password is probably forbidden anyway. Un-Tech savvy parents not wanting their kids causin a computer problem they can't fix, and tech-savvy parents not wanting to be locked out or having their parental controls circumvented.
I mean really, keep in mind what you're talking about here - the entire hassle you go through is entering a password and clicking the mouse twice. That's it.
Meanwhile you're suggesting password protection for the computer, alternate user accounts, and somehow keeping everyone away from your PC, which if you are a minor is especially difficult, but even as an adult with roommates can be tricky.
Lets see - a minor inconvenience, or several minor inconveniences (some of which are again, not possible for everyone to perform anyway) so those who don't have the same potential issues can avoid a couple mouse clicks and a little typing... yeah, right.
I mean really - you know it's not going to stop the logout timer part right? You're still going to have to wait 30 seconds to get logged out either way, you'll save what... 2 seconds? Maybe 3 if you chickenpeck and your password is long?
Because I want you to keep perspective as to exactly what you're talking about here - a couple seconds for something that can actually prove useful to a customer; no matter how 'stupid' you think it happens to be.
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
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I've been playing them since EQ1, I'm not a newbie at this either. I *have* had people try to delete my characters - once while I was right there in the chair. (A so-called friend thought I was playing too much, and to break me of the habit tried to delete my main while I was sitting right there talking to him. Obviously I stopped it, but still. And no, he wasn't very bright, but it's not like I can read minds as to someone's intent either.)
You can't honestly believe that it's practical for everyone to keep the rest of their family/friends/significant others away from their PC.
You also can't honestly assume setting up an alternate user account and switching to it when you go AFK is less hassle than re-logging when you switch characters.
Oh and there's also the possibility among minors of playing on a family PC; where the use of alternate accounts and password is probably forbidden anyway. Un-Tech savvy parents not wanting their kids causin a computer problem they can't fix, and tech-savvy parents not wanting to be locked out or having their parental controls circumvented.
I mean really, keep in mind what you're talking about here - the entire hassle you go through is entering a password and clicking the mouse twice. That's it.
Meanwhile you're suggesting password protection for the computer, alternate user accounts, and somehow keeping everyone away from your PC, which if you are a minor is especially difficult, but even as an adult with roommates can be tricky.
Lets see - a minor inconvenience, or several minor inconveniences (some of which are again, not possible for everyone to perform anyway) so those who don't have the same potential issues can avoid a couple mouse clicks and a little typing... yeah, right.
I mean really - you know it's not going to stop the logout timer part right? You're still going to have to wait 30 seconds to get logged out either way, you'll save what... 2 seconds? Maybe 3 if you chickenpeck and your password is long?
Because I want you to keep perspective as to exactly what you're talking about here - a couple seconds for something that can actually prove useful to a customer; no matter how 'stupid' you think it happens to be.
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... but typing for those split seconds is so tedious.... my god. The binaries are having a fit over the repetition 
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I'll admit that when I'm LAN-partying CoH with guy-friends and they get up from their computer for the kitchen or washroom, I'll hop onto their computer and type in broadcast:
I'M A PRETTY GIRL!!!
And let them deal with the consequence when they get back.
This just shows that password protection doesn't go far enough. Each execution of a command, chat line, emote, or power should require the input of one's password again just to be safe.
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For starters if you think your family would go around deleting your toons then your family...well they're not all that bright. Secondly why are they in your room bothering your computer? Finally there's a switch user function for PCs that wouldn't require you to log off your account. Try using a password.
Again personal stupidity is no reason not to have a log out to character screen function.
There are ways around every excuse you can throw. I've been playing MMOs since UO and I haven't once had anyone in my own home attempted to delete or even play my toons. Likewise I always switch to user login when I leave the room anyway.
Learn to use your pc.
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Um - wow.
Family is *family.* Little brother gets annoyed at you, you have to go to the bathroom, little brother decides to mess with characters.
That's not "they're not bright."
That's not "you're stupid."
That's not "Learn to use your PC" (and if it were MY PC in MY room, why would I have other user accounts on it to switch TO?)
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I've been playing MMOs since UO and I haven't once had anyone in my own home attempted to delete or even play my toons.
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I haven't ever once owned a Ferrari. Therefore, nobody does, and I don't believe the company even exists.
I've flown an airplane, so absolutely everybody has as well and knows what it's like. (Not flown in, flown.)
I have three brothers and one sister, so that's what everyone's family is like (despite how impossible that is.)
Oh, you mean my own, personal experience isn't the exact same as everybody else's? Imagine that.
You have to wait a whole 30 seconds, and that protects your characters and account. Deal with it.
You can lock your computer with a password. That's the best way to keep family members off it when you go on a bio break.
Different operating systems do it differently, but they all have the option.
This whole idea of having to log back in with your password being considered "protection" is a farce. How often would any of these proposed incidents occur? Not often enough to even be blip on customer services' radar. Besides, they can actually restore your deleted character. The whole thing smacks as being a lame excuse for some decision made long ago and an unwillingness to change it, much like the lame excuse for restricting capes anymore when you can clearly have certain capes from the beginning.
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This whole idea of having to log back in with your password being considered "protection" is a farce.
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People I know have shared their passwords with girlfriends and the minute they break up, their toons vanish.
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Imagine how difficult that would be if they didn't share the password. Or any of the other situations mentioned here. No annoyed brother/SO/etc seeing the game running and deciding to delete everything. Situations that, yes, HAVE been mentioned in the past.
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How often would any of these proposed incidents occur? Not often enough to even be blip on customer services' radar. Besides, they can actually restore your deleted character.
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And by requiring logging out to an area that requires your password, it's even less of an issue, and even fewer restorations end up getting requested, freeing CS to take care of other petitions. Besides, the times I *do* hear of getting a character restored, the person who gets it done talks about weeks of waiting.
Requiring a password = no waiting, since the character is not deleted unless you *chose* to give the person your password.
What would you rather have to do - wait 30 whole long, agonizing seconds to log back in, or wait weeks and hope you get your character back?
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The "security issue" reasoning has always seemed somewhat weak to me since other MMOs allow immediate logout to character selection and have not suffered security issues as a result.
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Have you played other MMOs?
I know lots of cases of security issues resulting from this exact situation.
For years there has been a steady stream of complaints on Diablo 2 forums about this exact issue -- family members, guests, girlfriends, passersby, or children deleting characters because a login screen was left open. I've been an administrator on a game site and we have a certain level of complaint about this problem with various games every few weeks or months. It's always somebody heartbroken that this could happen and desperate to contact support. Support can't help, of course, and the result is unhappiness for the player, the website admins, the player's guild/clan/supergroup equivalent, and of course the poor support wretches.
All that bad feeling is prevented by the password check.
Yes, I find it annoying as well. But I know why it's there.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
*shrug* never found it annoying
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Dad gives serious consideration to the penalty of beating his biff
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Eww, dirty.
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Sigh.. I really shouldn't post this late at night. Its fixed though.
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