I honestly don't see how anyone could play Pirates of the Burning Sea, then call CoH PvP boring. Ironically enough, PvP was the only thing even remotely interesting about Lineage II. That game was WAY to grindy for what it did.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
[ QUOTE ]
I honestly don't see how anyone could play Pirates of the Burning Sea, then call CoH PvP boring. Ironically enough, PvP was the only thing even remotely interesting about Lineage II. That game was WAY to grindy for what it did.
[/ QUOTE ]
I played Pirates of the Burning Sea. I stayed 3 months until got bored - the PVE wasn't nearly good enough to carry it and the PVP was problematic and became increasingly so over time. The rumor is it's gotten alot better. I am considering giving it another try, especially with the avatar combat improvements. I really did enjoy the tactical aspects of battle, but I fear that some of the skill changes will have removed even that (when a level 25 Freetrader can out manuever a level 45 pirate and still win the battle on skill alone- you've got something there).
Lineage II. I enjoyed it up until after my first castle siege. PVP is the only point to Lineage II. It bills itself as a PVP game which is what drew me to it, but it has alot of baggage around it. I'll probably renew when/if the next expansion comes out.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
[ QUOTE ]
I honestly don't see how anyone could play Pirates of the Burning Sea, then call CoH PvP boring.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see how anyone can play L4D or Quake: Whatever and call CoH PVP challenging.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
Smurch i actually did visit store and spend lot of time getting credits to buy new stuff..heck i was all shiney purty blue mecha but it just lost its fun...i didn't want to play healer or go sniper build....
How should i express it better: for most of the part pvp in Exteel is like something devs try to get here i guess...pure button smashing with crazy movement.. yes, you do need tactics there too but it is not like in CoH. CoH has more controlled enviroment and and pvp here is rather like chess game...well used to be for me :/
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Edit: what other PVP games HAVE you played? I'm curious.
[/ QUOTE ]
Let's see...
We'll start with pretty much every major and minor fighting game since the late 80's. Multi-player RTS from Warcraft through Starcraft up to Sins of a Solar Empire. FPS from DN3D, Quake, UT (and the metric ton of variations on it), CS (including a spot on a higher ranked league team in Vegas), TFC/TF2, L4D. MMO's from UO, EQ 1 and 2, DAoC, WoW, WAR, AA (lulz, AA), FF XI.
That's just off of the top of my head. How about you?
[/ QUOTE ]
I have trouble believing that you still think CoV PVP is actually good if all that is true.
Off the top of my head:
Wing Commander Armada, X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter, DOOM, DOOM2, Warcraft 1 and 2, Age of Empires 1 and 2, Quake 1,2, Wars, MOO2, L4D, Might and Magic: Dark Messiah, Darkfall Online, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Warhammer Online, Exteel, Dungeon Runners, Lineage II, Guild Wars, Age of Conan, Rome: Total War, Medieval II: Total War, Heroes of Might and Magic (series I-V) and of course, CoX.
I am also a beta tester for Fallen Earth, but I can't discuss that in any detail.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok must of the games you have listed are not what I would call say is pvp, Yes you have listed some but not really alot of pvp games. But your Option is that you like other games pvp better and that is cool. So by all means go play those. This is topic is about how this games pvp has fallen from what it was. I agree, that we had to fix some issues, but like someone already said not to the point that they did.
If more people would of started coming into pvp maybe I wouldn't have said anything. But the sever I was on went from a active pvp place to a ghost town.
But really if you like another game much better I'm happy for you. I like the way this one worked as a paying customer for over 4 years now I think I have the right to say hey devs I was haveing fun with the other system and would like you to please fix it so that we can get people back to this game.
I used to be an hardcore PvPer in my previous games, GW and WoW arena.
When I moved to CoX, I mostly played PvE and after trying the PvP once or twice I used to think it was totally broken.
I was rather happy when they announced a revamp of the old PvP, and was hoping for something playable and fun.
They did exactly the contrary of what was needed, and completely destroyed everything that had potential in CoX PvP. Believe it or not : even not playing it, that's so easy to see from the perspective of a former PvP player.
The path should have been clear :
1. Add rewards to the old PvP system as a first move, to encourage ppl going into the zone, going into the arena.
2. Start to gather feedback from the "new" ppl coming to PvP, and compare it with the feedback from the "old" pvpers.
3. Work WITH the pvp community to improve the game and promote new changes and not AGAINST the playerbase.
When you want to improve your product, starting by pissing off 90% of your regular customers is never the way to procede. That should be in every management manual, and yet...
I've been in so many MMOs where I had strictly no doubt that, we, the hardcore pvpers, knew the PvP game mechanics so much better than the devs. And that's not surprising : there are the people thinking about the game as a whole, mostly not playing it, and the ones who play 24/7 a certain aspect to the game and push it to the edge.
In this game (CoX) the devs have crossed every boundary to show us their total ignorance about how their game works, PvP wise.
Now they can only show us they're clever enough to recognize their mistake and undo the total failure i13 PvP was and still is today.
I'm still in the game, enjoying PvE mostly as usual and loving this so original MMO in a world of "WoW-clones". But one thing is sure (and paradoxical), the day I'll cancel my 2 CoX accounts as a PvE player, i13 pvp changes will be the number 1 reason of my cancellation for their support.
[ QUOTE ]
Slax are you NCSOFT Agent!!??? i kid 
[/ QUOTE ]
If I was, I'd cut myself.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
[ QUOTE ]
I truely believe that those who do not PVP, get shell-shocked by PVP "game speed", when they finally decide to try it. You cannot compare PvP speed to PvE speed. They are two entirely different "gears"
[/ QUOTE ]
I PvE that fast, hoping someone has vengeance.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
[ QUOTE ]
I used to be an hardcore PvPer in my previous games, GW and WoW arena.
When I moved to CoX, I mostly played PvE and after trying the PvP once or twice I used to think it was totally broken.
I was rather happy when they announced a revamp of the old PvP, and was hoping for something playable and fun.
They did exactly the contrary of what was needed, and completely destroyed everything that had potential in CoX PvP. Believe it or not : even not playing it, that's so easy to see from the perspective of a former PvP player.
The path should have been clear :
1. Add rewards to the old PvP system as a first move, to encourage ppl going into the zone, going into the arena.
2. Start to gather feedback from the "new" ppl coming to PvP, and compare it with the feedback from the "old" pvpers.
3. Work WITH the pvp community to improve the game and promote new changes and not AGAINST the playerbase.
When you want to improve your product, starting by pissing off 90% of your regular customers is never the way to procede. That should be in every management manual, and yet...
I've been in so many MMOs where I had strictly no doubt that, we, the hardcore pvpers, knew the PvP game mechanics so much better than the devs. And that's not surprising : there are the people thinking about the game as a whole, mostly not playing it, and the ones who play 24/7 a certain aspect to the game and push it to the edge.
In this game (CoX) the devs have crossed every boundary to show us their total ignorance about how their game works, PvP wise.
Now they can only show us they're clever enough to recognize their mistake and undo the total failure i13 PvP was and still is today.
I'm still in the game, enjoying PvE mostly as usual and loving this so original MMO in a world of "WoW-clones". But one thing is sure (and paradoxical), the day I'll cancel my 2 CoX accounts as a PvE player, i13 pvp changes will be the number 1 reason of my cancellation for their support.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for understanding. I would hope the devs could see that most the people that did pvp before the changes are unhappy and the new blood are not even really there anymore. I know the devs have their hands full but please read the forums and really listen to what the players are asking for.
If you can weed out all the trollers that say this game sucks and read post that are from people trying to stay with a game that over the years we have called home. If you can do that Devs then you will start getting people to come back to the game and you will see more post of great job devs.
It just came to me i was in the zone and died from a spike and i always sit in the hospital a few seconds to think what happened so i can avoid it next time but what did happen noone can. I was held altho it was for 2-4 sec that's all it took for a spike and it hit me this pvp is using......................
Training wheels
Before i13 you had to stack holds to break someones protection, and even then they had the Option of using breakfree's or getting outside assistance via buffs like cm. Now everyone can hold everyone long enough for a spike, which used to be a accomplishment if set up and achieved correctly. And the bad part was it was a stone troller just sitting still waiting. I attacked, his pet immediately held me before i could even follow up and his team came in and spiked me before i could do anything. This is a broken mechanic this new mez resist is a terrible change.
And not because of a good spike, because it makes no sense that anyone can hold anyone even with things like SOW up and running and there is absolutely no counter not even bf's or CM.
Bringing mez protection back would be a good start and allow inspirations to work.
DR is a awful thing and if it's not in pve it has no place in pvp, most of us like our toons working the same in both environments. Even hp is dr's there is no reason, your hp needs to suffer dr.
Suppression is Bad There is no reason that clicking a inspiration needs to suppress my movement, every action that you do or that involves you, suppresses you and this is wrong.
What we asked for? We asked to help melee toons be more viable to add suppression to their melee attacks to help them compete against ranged fighters. Instead they gave us total and utter suppression and this was poorly done and uncalled for.
Heal decay I can see on a outside heal to a degree but even on your own heal is a no no it really hampers sets like regen that is totally dependent on heals for survival also why does this suppress me?
Teams How can a mmo that needs a teaming theme to keep ppl interested, make it more viable not to team in pvp? The only benefit to teaming is we can jump someone faster and that's it. Previously everyone had a role, buffers buffed, damage dealers did damage, support toon supported, now we just build for max hp and damage and mash buttons until either we or the opponent dies.
Limited variety That was problematic forever but now even more so, the way this pvp is it literally forces you to use certain toons and builds to compete. Biggest example before this new pvp on melee toons ppl used stone melee, em, ss, dm,i have seen a few good axe, Now all you see is SS.
Wish the devs would separate crying from actual problems Because things like COLD were strong they didn't need nerfing or radiation, or storms, slows were fine the way they were you just had to have a strategy to fight them. The pvp wish list was made for a reason, it came from actually players, that pvp'd everyday for hours and a consensus was formed on what would help things out. They ignored it
We lost our friends and some good players These changes were made to increase the zone's and now you have to transfer to freedom or like virtue to get a good pvp zone experience the other servers are empty and the only reason freedom has numbers is because, we all for the most part either created or transferred toons their knowing we'd meet up.
Not Listening to us Those of us that did i13 closed beta, after seeing these changes, we spoke out we even made concessions of things that didn't seem to overwhelmingly awful, and we didn't even get as much as a "I'll see what i can do" Finally after being ignored most of us gave up and went to enjoy i12 for as long as we could just hoping they would extend the beta so we could play longer. Then our friends quit 
Lies and feedback So they made this negative feed back thread and it was a record amount of pages versus the positive that had like 2? And then we were told it was a absolute success, yet it's months later and we are still trying for change, the zones are still empty even lost folk. Where is this success they speak of? One of these threads pop up from differnt ppl like every other day, it's even pve'rs that say it is far worst now, even lighthouse spoke out yet it's a success.
Why do we now have tank mages? 40% free resist and a possible 30+ % from epic shields is down right crazy and unbalanced. A blaster sat today in melee range and beat this brute up, no kiting, no bouncing, just mashed down until the brute fell, clicked his heal and said GF. This is stupid, it is absolutely no reason a ranged fighter should be more sturdy than a melee NO REASON!!!
This is just a small sample of stuff, but you all get the point, all i ask for is a arena setting or a pre i13zone and i'll be happy and I'm sure others would be too and we can bury this mess, and put it behind us.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
[ QUOTE ]
It just came to me i was in the zone and died from a spike and i always sit in the hospital a few seconds to think what happened so i can avoid it next time but what did happen noone can. I was held altho it was for 2-4 sec that's all it took for a spike and it hit me this pvp is using......................
[/ QUOTE ]
Avoid the big bunny hopping swarm of orange names next time and you'll be ok. You cant really expect to survive against uneven odds can you?
[ QUOTE ]
Training wheels
Before i13 you had to stack holds to break someones protection, and even then they had the Option of using breakfree's or getting outside assistance via buffs like cm. Now everyone can hold everyone long enough for a spike, which used to be a accomplishment if set up and achieved correctly. And the bad part was it was a stone troller just sitting still waiting. I attacked, his pet immediately held me before i could even follow up and his team came in and spiked me before i could do anything. This is a broken mechanic this new mez resist is a terrible change.
And not because of a good spike, because it makes no sense that anyone can hold anyone even with things like SOW up and running and there is absolutely no counter not even bf's or CM.
Bringing mez protection back would be a good start and allow inspirations to work.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you've ever done an arena match against a permadom under the old pvp system you would know why the devs considered mezzes too strong. I agree though that in their current state their only good use is to detoggle offensive toggles which is pretty limited.
[ QUOTE ]
DR is a awful thing and if it's not in pve it has no place in pvp, most of us like our toons working the same in both environments. Even hp is dr's there is no reason, your hp needs to suffer dr.
[/ QUOTE ]
From all the ranting and my limited experience I would agree that DR pretty much destroyed the test arena pvp. The problem was that this pvp was almost completely inaccessible to a VAST majority of players, pvpers or not. I think the devs saw that there was content in the game that most people would never have a chance to experience. Now do I think they knowingly abandoned that small percentage of the player population in the elite pvp? I honestly dont know.
What I am sure of is that without DR, the more run of the mill pvp (casual arena and zones) was ridiculous at times. 90-95% resistances in godmodes made players.. well godlike, at least as far as melee characters could be in that system. Floored tohit and recharge rates made fights rediculously one sided. YES i know these things had their place in the test arena scene but NOT here. It's not as if buffs have no effect now, they wont make you unstoppable anymore but they give an advantage which is what they are supposed to do.
[ QUOTE ]
Suppression is Bad There is no reason that clicking a inspiration needs to suppress my movement, every action that you do or that involves you, suppresses you and this is wrong.
What we asked for? We asked to help melee toons be more viable to add suppression to their melee attacks to help them compete against ranged fighters. Instead they gave us total and utter suppression and this was poorly done and uncalled for.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why they put suppression on inspirations and heals is beyond me, I don't like it much either. It supports gangraping, and while I do believe that no person should win in 1v2+, is being able to live really that bad? Well I suppose its no fun for the guys chasing the one, but it sucks a whole lot more with suppression for guy who cant get away.
On the upside though, I do find it a lot easier to hit kiting ranged attackers with my melee characters, at least part of this change was done right imho.
[ QUOTE ]
Heal decay I can see on a outside heal to a degree but even on your own heal is a no no it really hampers sets like regen that is totally dependent on heals for survival also why does this suppress me?
[/ QUOTE ]
No it does not hamper sets like regen, a good player will simply not pop DP and Reconstruction within 8 seconds of eachother. If he has to to prevent dying, he's probably getting spiked and will die a moment later, heal decay or not.
The big issue is with thermals and rads, not regens. People with such sets can still count out 8 seconds in their head between heals (or whatever the timer is). It makes them more vulnerable but in return they got PVP resistance, so in theory I would think it would even out somewhat but I cant say for certain having not played such a set in pvp
[ QUOTE ]
Teams How can a mmo that needs a teaming theme to keep ppl interested, make it more viable not to team in pvp? The only benefit to teaming is we can jump someone faster and that's it. Previously everyone had a role, buffers buffed, damage dealers did damage, support toon supported, now we just build for max hp and damage and mash buttons until either we or the opponent dies.
[/ QUOTE ]
Without going into too much detail, most old strategies are going to fail now, but if the elite pvp crowd hadn't given up and left I'd think they would have come up with more sound strategies than 'ok guys, mash buttons until they all fall down.' Maybe I'm wrong and there is absolutley no potential in this new system whatsoever but I find that very, very hard to believe.
[ QUOTE ]
Limited variety That was problematic forever but now even more so, the way this pvp is it literally forces you to use certain toons and builds to compete. Biggest example before this new pvp on melee toons ppl used stone melee, em, ss, dm,i have seen a few good axe, Now all you see is SS.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a bad example, no good pvper played melee toons in the old pvp. If they did they were probably not very good (like me!) Under the new system, I'd think that any decent player could still make something good out of the other melee sets.
[ QUOTE ]
Wish the devs would separate crying from actual problems Because things like COLD were strong they didn't need nerfing or radiation, or storms, slows were fine the way they were you just had to have a strategy to fight them. The pvp wish list was made for a reason, it came from actually players, that pvp'd everyday for hours and a consensus was formed on what would help things out. They ignored it
[/ QUOTE ]
In 1v1, the only thing that comes to mind is popping a lot of insp in these max/min debuff kind of situations. That wont work in the arena for more than 5 minutes, and in zones there is no guarantee you have the right insps upon encountering these situations. The only other option is teaming, and then it isn't 1v1 anymore.
Either I was a LOT worse than I thought I was, or in many of those cases, there was just NO chance 1v1, it wasnt just an advantage, there was no possibility of winning. Well, tell me I'm a horrible pvper then, I'd have to disagree and say I've done it long enough to be half decent, and in those situations, there is no winning.
[ QUOTE ]
Why do we now have tank mages? 40% free resist and a possible 30+ % from epic shields is down right crazy and unbalanced. A blaster sat today in melee range and beat this brute up, no kiting, no bouncing, just mashed down until the brute fell, clicked his heal and said GF. This is stupid, it is absolutely no reason a ranged fighter should be more sturdy than a melee NO REASON!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Either a bad brute, or good blaster, or both. Something is wrong here though, we dont know if there are more changes in the works though, I choose to remain optimistic.
[ QUOTE ]
This is just a small sample of stuff, but you all get the point, all i ask for is a arena setting or a pre i13zone and i'll be happy and I'm sure others would be too and we can bury this mess, and put it behind us.
[/ QUOTE ]
That would be nice, it would satisfy all the old pvpers (hopefully...) but is it possible to program such a setting into the game? We dont know, and if it is possible, maybe this will happen in the future.
[ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree. I did fine as a team-buffing kin in zone PVP, both Sirens and RV. With the current system, not only are my buffs next to useless, but I cannot use movement to increase survivability. There is a difference between having to learn how to play a support toon to make it viable, and having your toon rendered next to useless even when you know how to play it. All of my characters were support - sonics and kins mostly. I may as well crumple them up and toss them in the trash with the current PVP system.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just to be clear, I wasn't using one version of cox pvp compared to another, (ie i12 vs i13).....just Pvp in general. I am not a big fan of the "new" pvp, but I am still a fan of pvp. I am aware that support toons are not really "support" anymore. That line has been severely blurred now between classes.
[ QUOTE ]
No. Another NCSoft title, Exteel, is about 10x as fast as CoX PVP, and it's fun out of the gate. It doesn't require that you spend days/weeks/months learning how to play. You play one tutorial that lasts all of maybe 30 minutes and you're ready to jump right into your first deathmatch.
[/ QUOTE ]
lol, so i can learn all i need to know in 30 minutes?
Hilarious. Soooo.....I am bored of that game in....what.....2 weeks?
You may not enjoy learning complexities, in order to enjoy a game, But I do. If I want a "jump in and go" pvp experience I can play one of those garbage war game titles. Grab my machine gun, run around the map & shoot the bunny hoppers. zzzZZZzzz
No thanks.
And if you think that no other games share a learning curve issue, then I can only chalk it up to you being ignorant of other games or being purposely obtuse in order to facilitate your point of view.
Either way, it appears we will have to agree to disagree. 
lol "real" pvp. You're a hoot.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It just came to me i was in the zone and died from a spike and i always sit in the hospital a few seconds to think what happened so i can avoid it next time but what did happen noone can. I was held altho it was for 2-4 sec that's all it took for a spike and it hit me this pvp is using......................
[/ QUOTE ]
Avoid the big bunny hopping swarm of orange names next time and you'll be ok. You cant really expect to survive against uneven odds can you?
[ QUOTE ]
Training wheels
Before i13 you had to stack holds to break someones protection, and even then they had the Option of using breakfree's or getting outside assistance via buffs like cm. Now everyone can hold everyone long enough for a spike, which used to be a accomplishment if set up and achieved correctly. And the bad part was it was a stone troller just sitting still waiting. I attacked, his pet immediately held me before i could even follow up and his team came in and spiked me before i could do anything. This is a broken mechanic this new mez resist is a terrible change.
And not because of a good spike, because it makes no sense that anyone can hold anyone even with things like SOW up and running and there is absolutely no counter not even bf's or CM.
Bringing mez protection back would be a good start and allow inspirations to work.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you've ever done an arena match against a permadom under the old pvp system you would know why the devs considered mezzes too strong. I agree though that in their current state their only good use is to detoggle offensive toggles which is pretty limited.
[ QUOTE ]
DR is a awful thing and if it's not in pve it has no place in pvp, most of us like our toons working the same in both environments. Even hp is dr's there is no reason, your hp needs to suffer dr.
[/ QUOTE ]
From all the ranting and my limited experience I would agree that DR pretty much destroyed the test arena pvp. The problem was that this pvp was almost completely inaccessible to a VAST majority of players, pvpers or not. I think the devs saw that there was content in the game that most people would never have a chance to experience. Now do I think they knowingly abandoned that small percentage of the player population in the elite pvp? I honestly dont know.
What I am sure of is that without DR, the more run of the mill pvp (casual arena and zones) was ridiculous at times. 90-95% resistances in godmodes made players.. well godlike, at least as far as melee characters could be in that system. Floored tohit and recharge rates made fights rediculously one sided. YES i know these things had their place in the test arena scene but NOT here. It's not as if buffs have no effect now, they wont make you unstoppable anymore but they give an advantage which is what they are supposed to do.
[ QUOTE ]
Suppression is Bad There is no reason that clicking a inspiration needs to suppress my movement, every action that you do or that involves you, suppresses you and this is wrong.
What we asked for? We asked to help melee toons be more viable to add suppression to their melee attacks to help them compete against ranged fighters. Instead they gave us total and utter suppression and this was poorly done and uncalled for.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why they put suppression on inspirations and heals is beyond me, I don't like it much either. It supports gangraping, and while I do believe that no person should win in 1v2+, is being able to live really that bad? Well I suppose its no fun for the guys chasing the one, but it sucks a whole lot more with suppression for guy who cant get away.
On the upside though, I do find it a lot easier to hit kiting ranged attackers with my melee characters, at least part of this change was done right imho.
[ QUOTE ]
Heal decay I can see on a outside heal to a degree but even on your own heal is a no no it really hampers sets like regen that is totally dependent on heals for survival also why does this suppress me?
[/ QUOTE ]
No it does not hamper sets like regen, a good player will simply not pop DP and Reconstruction within 8 seconds of eachother. If he has to to prevent dying, he's probably getting spiked and will die a moment later, heal decay or not.
The big issue is with thermals and rads, not regens. People with such sets can still count out 8 seconds in their head between heals (or whatever the timer is). It makes them more vulnerable but in return they got PVP resistance, so in theory I would think it would even out somewhat but I cant say for certain having not played such a set in pvp
[ QUOTE ]
Teams How can a mmo that needs a teaming theme to keep ppl interested, make it more viable not to team in pvp? The only benefit to teaming is we can jump someone faster and that's it. Previously everyone had a role, buffers buffed, damage dealers did damage, support toon supported, now we just build for max hp and damage and mash buttons until either we or the opponent dies.
[/ QUOTE ]
Without going into too much detail, most old strategies are going to fail now, but if the elite pvp crowd hadn't given up and left I'd think they would have come up with more sound strategies than 'ok guys, mash buttons until they all fall down.' Maybe I'm wrong and there is absolutley no potential in this new system whatsoever but I find that very, very hard to believe.
[ QUOTE ]
Limited variety That was problematic forever but now even more so, the way this pvp is it literally forces you to use certain toons and builds to compete. Biggest example before this new pvp on melee toons ppl used stone melee, em, ss, dm,i have seen a few good axe, Now all you see is SS.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a bad example, no good pvper played melee toons in the old pvp. If they did they were probably not very good (like me!) Under the new system, I'd think that any decent player could still make something good out of the other melee sets.
[ QUOTE ]
Wish the devs would separate crying from actual problems Because things like COLD were strong they didn't need nerfing or radiation, or storms, slows were fine the way they were you just had to have a strategy to fight them. The pvp wish list was made for a reason, it came from actually players, that pvp'd everyday for hours and a consensus was formed on what would help things out. They ignored it
[/ QUOTE ]
In 1v1, the only thing that comes to mind is popping a lot of insp in these max/min debuff kind of situations. That wont work in the arena for more than 5 minutes, and in zones there is no guarantee you have the right insps upon encountering these situations. The only other option is teaming, and then it isn't 1v1 anymore.
Either I was a LOT worse than I thought I was, or in many of those cases, there was just NO chance 1v1, it wasnt just an advantage, there was no possibility of winning. Well, tell me I'm a horrible pvper then, I'd have to disagree and say I've done it long enough to be half decent, and in those situations, there is no winning.
[ QUOTE ]
Why do we now have tank mages? 40% free resist and a possible 30+ % from epic shields is down right crazy and unbalanced. A blaster sat today in melee range and beat this brute up, no kiting, no bouncing, just mashed down until the brute fell, clicked his heal and said GF. This is stupid, it is absolutely no reason a ranged fighter should be more sturdy than a melee NO REASON!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Either a bad brute, or good blaster, or both. Something is wrong here though, we dont know if there are more changes in the works though, I choose to remain optimistic.
[ QUOTE ]
This is just a small sample of stuff, but you all get the point, all i ask for is a arena setting or a pre i13zone and i'll be happy and I'm sure others would be too and we can bury this mess, and put it behind us.
[/ QUOTE ]
That would be nice, it would satisfy all the old pvpers (hopefully...) but is it possible to program such a setting into the game? We dont know, and if it is possible, maybe this will happen in the future.
[/ QUOTE ]Your definitely entitled to your opinion but your a tad out of touch. I don't know where to begin ok lets start with " you can't expect to survive against uneven odds can you" Yes and i do often i also did often in the old pvp i actually made clear i wasn't referring to the spike. The only difference is now you have to do one thing to survive versus another no biggie. Again i wasn't refeng to dying i even said it.
Next "If you've ever done an arena match against a permadom under the old pvp system you would know why the devs considered mezzes too strong." I fought doms all the time some AT's had a strong disadvantage versus them, some a not so strong disadvantage, some even had the advantage this ain't nascar ladies and gentlemen i have no desire to drive the same car as you some AT's do well under certain circumstanses and this is fine it's call diversity. And if you did vill ladder matches you would know that doms were one of the weakest if not the AT's their and a major reason they cried for buffs for so long. sure if they ran you out of bf's they won, but if you pressured them they died like anyone else and they were squishie.
Next "
No it does not hamper sets like regen, a good player will simply not pop DP and Reconstruction within 8 seconds of eachother. If he has to to prevent dying, he's probably getting spiked and will die a moment later, heal decay or not" this is incorrect first thing is it depends on the spike, it still adds up to what ever number it's going to be. So i have 2415hp My recon gives me say 699 and my dp gives 1195 in essence I'm working with 4309hp respectively you have to figure i'm on the run and since suppression aint a factor, i won't receive the entire spike at once i can not only click both heals and IH if need be i can get off mog at the same time and live i have done this plenty on my spines stalker during a spike in ladder matches(less hp than scrapper lesser heals). When you die you cost your team points so yes you learn your toons limitations. I also did this in zones on my scrapper so your wrong in that assumption.
Next "
This is a bad example, no good pvper played melee toons in the old pvp" this is the total opposite of the truth a good pvp'r can play with just about anything and make it work i knew a few that own in zones with pb's for goodness sakes PB's. Now in a closed in setting like say the arena your chooses were limited to spines but zone anything could work.
You said this in responce to my tank mage comment and further shows your a tad out of touch. "
Either a bad brute, or good blaster, or both. Something is wrong here though, we dont know if there are more changes in the works though, I choose to remain optimistic."
Ok let me slow this down, they stood their, fight club style, and launched attacks at each other until someone died. Thier is no skill involve in this and that's my point. Blasters have capped resist meaning your resist can achieve a state where it doesn't get any higher 70+ % with dr off around 46% with it on. It's tanks that run around with less resist. Also they get resist to all forms of damage, I'm not making this up and I'm starting to think you castles second account trying to use subterfuge to sway us from the truth. Notice how your the only one disagreeing with this stuff? It's because this is only slightly opinion with mostly facts involved. And it's what we all have being crying about it's not just a Ravens thing i guess you beleive your right and we are just delusional. This thread is can we plz fix pvp, their another currently going going called a open letter to the devs and it actually has alot of stuff i just mentioned and it's not my thread and alot agree and to be honest only disagreement is 7th cynic in his whole thread hmm go figure..
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
[ QUOTE ]
Next "If you've ever done an arena match against a permadom under the old pvp system you would know why the devs considered mezzes too strong." I fought doms all the time some AT's had a strong disadvantage versus them, some a not so strong disadvantage, some even had the advantage this ain't nascar ladies and gentlemen i have no desire to drive the same car as you some AT's do well under certain circumstanses and this is fine it's call diversity. And if you did vill ladder matches you would know that doms were one of the weakest if not the AT's their and a major reason they cried for buffs for so long. sure if they ran you out of bf's they won, but if you pressured them they died like anyone else and they were squishie.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fair enough, I've never done any vill ladder matches, I was nowhere near skilled enough and fell into that vast pool of players that to them that content was totally inaccessible, or at least seemed to be. In my personal experience however (a few isolated arena matches and zone play) on my melee characters, I didn't stand a chance. It wasn't just a disadvantage, it was no chance in hell. Something in the game's balance must have been out of whack, or at least the devs thought so.
[ QUOTE ]
Next "
No it does not hamper sets like regen, a good player will simply not pop DP and Reconstruction within 8 seconds of eachother. If he has to to prevent dying, he's probably getting spiked and will die a moment later, heal decay or not" this is incorrect first thing is it depends on the spike, it still adds up to what ever number it's going to be. So i have 2415hp My recon gives me say 699 and my dp gives 1195 in essence I'm working with 4309hp respectively you have to figure i'm on the run and since suppression aint a factor, i won't receive the entire spike at once i can not only click both heals and IH if need be i can get off mog at the same time and live i have done this plenty on my spines stalker during a spike in ladder matches(less hp than scrapper lesser heals). When you die you cost your team points so yes you learn your toons limitations. I also did this in zones on my scrapper so your wrong in that assumption.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have the definition of spiked all wrong then *facepalm*, spiked by one blaster I could see a regen survive, I meant if he were attacked by more than one player it would make very little difference, apologies for that! I'm reasonably confident at least here that 2...maybe 3 or more players spiking a regen will take him down, heal decay or not.
[ QUOTE ]
Next "
This is a bad example, no good pvper played melee toons in the old pvp" this is the total opposite of the truth a good pvp'r can play with just about anything and make it work i knew a few that own in zones with pb's for goodness sakes PB's. Now in a closed in setting like say the arena your chooses were limited to spines but zone anything could work.
[/ QUOTE ]
In zones it's easy to do well with just about anything since crappy players as well as good go there, I should have been clearer that good players would not play melee characters in high end team pvp, I think there were some on the 1v1 ladders but I only looked once or twice so I can't say.
[ QUOTE ]
You said this in responce to my tank mage comment and further shows your a tad out of touch. "
Either a bad brute, or good blaster, or both. Something is wrong here though, we dont know if there are more changes in the works though, I choose to remain optimistic."
Ok let me slow this down, they stood their, fight club style, and launched attacks at each other until someone died. Thier is no skill involve in this and that's my point. Blasters have capped resist meaning your resist can achieve a state where it doesn't get any higher 70+ % with dr off around 46% with it on. It's tanks that run around with less resist. Also they get resist to all forms of damage, I'm not making this up and I'm starting to think you castles second account trying to use subterfuge to sway us from the truth. Notice how your the only one disagreeing with this stuff? It's because this is only slightly opinion with mostly facts involved. And it's what we all have being crying about it's not just a Ravens thing i guess you beleive your right and we are just delusional. This thread is can we plz fix pvp, their another currently going going called a open letter to the devs and it actually has alot of stuff i just mentioned and it's not my thread and alot agree and to be honest only disagreement is 7th cynic in his whole thread hmm go figure..
[/ QUOTE ]
When I said 'bad brute' and 'good blaster' i meant the brute would be in so's and the blaster purpled out or something like that. I did say it was pretty odd as well.
Now why am I one of the only ones disagreeing? Maybe because I'm one of the only people here who wasn't involved at all with the more elite pvp, precisely because of it's exclusive nature. I've got a totally different perspective, much closer (imo) to that of the rest of the coh community that couldn't take part in that elite pvp. I understand somewhat that yes, the new pvp destroyed the highly organized nature of high end pvp and that is why the elite pvp crowd is either mad or unsubscribed. Now no, I'm not castle's alt account, but I'd think that I would be the kind of player he would be trying to target, but I could be way off. I'm just offering a different perspective on the problem and giving my reasoning, not trying to insult your guys opinions or anything like that.
I was just giving you a hard time, your opinion is from your perspective and i can respect that. I also was you at one time, so i can see your thinking, but after alot of practicing Freaks practiced alot like 2-3 times a week not including scrimmages with other VG's it changed my thinking. But your definition of spiking is accurate basically what zoners refer to now as ganking. Where multiple foes jump on you at once, but the difference is with no suppression you can take your lumps on the move and possibly survive.
I can see your reasonable so just try and see it from the perspective of those that put in the time and work, and was 100% driven by pvp( i hated pve content still do). All we asked for was an arena option so we could continue our leagues, i don't think that's alot to ask. Especially since the players, are the ones who 100% organized and structured the leagues.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
[ QUOTE ]
I know alot of people don't really care for pvp so this is not for them. PvP was the real reason I use to love this game. No other game really did it for me. I like the movement and different was you could.
The way you have to think fast and be on the move the whole time. Now what I have come back to is a simple rule range pvp is god. I play melee class toons and I can see where range is now very op to the point that it was broken over classes.
The suppression has done no good for us. If you attack you are suppressed. Then there is the part of teleport( which I don't use) is broken in pvp. To me you tried to make pvp so that anyone could step in and play. Never mind the people that has played for years and learned to be good. You say you try and make it so that all are happy. Well alot of us PVPers are not so happy with what you have done.
I know lots of people will say to stop crying over change and to deal with it. I have read many post and have seen some real good thoughts on how to go about and fix pvp, but it does seem that only the people making the loudest noise are getting to the dev's. Now maybe that cause we(PVPERS) have set by and let things go. You nerf us we change and deal with it. So someone comes in pvp gets beat and then gets on here and crys about it and then other cry as well how hard pvp is. Well all I can say is that I wish you would put pvp back the way it was before I13.
[/ QUOTE ]
My warshade used to DOMINATE in the Arena solo when PVP first came out (Arena). People didn't know what to do because they had never fought a ******WARSHADE OF DESTRUCTION******....
Now I get my [censored] kicked anytime I zone into RV...
You want to bring back ideas that were removed? I want NEW ideas that will bring more people to PvP zones! I go to RV, Siren's Call, Bloody Bay, and try to usually avoid Warburg if I can, but still have no problem going there. I go to these zones every day. Daily.
EMPTY
Not because people don't like pvp. Not because people can't win. Because people don't find it enjoyable anymore. They need new content.
Pinnacle Server's PvP Zones are empty most of the time, the Arena is ONLY filled with people farming PvP recipes, Bloody Bay is only used for Shivans and Farming Recipes, Warburg is only used for Nukes, and once a week (if you are lucky) will you Heroes willing to PvP in Siren's Call. How do I make my noobish averages and math equations to figure this out? Because I visit these zones multiple times daily and can never find anyone.
And RV? lolrv. RV has one maybe two people in it most of the time and it isn't rare to see the zone empty. (This is using /whoall AND searching the zone personally to see if anyone is hidden.)
Don't fix pvp, add something that'll make new AND old people interested cause right now there seems to be little to keep people PvPing.
I'm done posting and won't return to this thread again. PvP in 4chan is better than PvP in City of Heroes/Villains right now.
well I definitely think that travel powers REALLY made this game nearly impossible to balance. If pvp was done form teh start and not as an after thought... it probably would be a hell of a lot better.
will champions online have pvp? 
[ QUOTE ]
well I definitely think that travel powers REALLY made this game nearly impossible to balance. If pvp was done form teh start and not as an after thought... it probably would be a hell of a lot better.
will champions online have pvp?
[/ QUOTE ]
Gosh, and I had high hopes for you not being a moron.
Bummer.
@Bonker Guide to Base Building for the Small SG
Present project: Solo Everything Project
Remaining: Lusca, Sewers, Eden, Kahn, States, HeroSpec2&3, Apex, Tin Mage, Moritmer Kal, Tesseract, Recluse, 'Cuda, Quarry, Stropharia, Thorn, Arachnos Flier, Deathsurge, Caleb, Seed of Hamidon (Villrespec2&3, Hami, CoP, Incarnates)
[ QUOTE ]
Gosh, and I had high hopes for you not being a moron.
Bummer.
[/ QUOTE ]
Coming from you, Bonker, it makes sense...pot meet kettle.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Gosh, and I had high hopes for you not being a moron.
Bummer.
[/ QUOTE ]
Coming from you, Bonker, it makes sense...pot meet kettle.
[/ QUOTE ]
Gladtameetcha!!
@Bonker Guide to Base Building for the Small SG
Present project: Solo Everything Project
Remaining: Lusca, Sewers, Eden, Kahn, States, HeroSpec2&3, Apex, Tin Mage, Moritmer Kal, Tesseract, Recluse, 'Cuda, Quarry, Stropharia, Thorn, Arachnos Flier, Deathsurge, Caleb, Seed of Hamidon (Villrespec2&3, Hami, CoP, Incarnates)
snaptown
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a bad example, no good pvper played melee toons in the old pvp"[/b] this is the total opposite of the truth a good pvp'r can play with just about anything and make it work i knew a few that own in zones with pb's for goodness sakes PB's. Now in a closed in setting like say the arena your chooses were limited to spines but zone anything could work.
[/ QUOTE ]
In zones it's easy to do well with just about anything since crappy players as well as good go there, I should have been clearer that good players would not play melee characters in high end team pvp, I think there were some on the 1v1 ladders but I only looked once or twice so I can't say.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lol. My team ran scrappers and tanks in the high end PvP arena.
I don't understand why People thought of the old PvP as 'exclusive' or 'Eliteskillrequired' My group, although highly skilled in my opinion, was not hardcore by anymeans. It took us a full year to get somewhat decent and we were probably the most dynamic team out there. Our roster had anything and everything. We ran controllers, defenders, tanks, scrappers, blaster. (Never ran a kheld, but that's another matter)
I can guess that the reason people thought of the old PvP as exclusive was because they weren't the best right away. It takes time to get good at something, expecially when the Skill cap is as high as it was in the old PvP. Skill cap is what makes a game competative.
The old PvP was easy to learn - it works similar to the PvE side in terms of My high damage attack in PvE is my high damage attack in PvP. The old PvP was tough to master - some may argue that it was impossible to master.
I feel that PvP was changed for the people that didn't want to devote the time necessary to learn the system and adapt to it. The system was changed to adapt to the player, and we have what we have now:
DR: No one can be truely better in a numbers term than anyone else
Supression: Commit or Phase - evasion not an option
Heal Decay: Healing support not a true option.
What the hardcore crowd is upset about is the hard counters that existed before are no longer there. If I wanted to counter a scrapper team, I would bring a controller heavy lineup. If I wanted to counter tanks, I would bring controllers and blaster. If I wanted to counter controllers, I would bring more support and heavy damage. A team leader would try to manage all the hardcounters out there to build a team that was balanced and could handle the brunt of other lineups. If a team saw that we were running our storm team, yet they refused to run a second kinetic because they wanted the second cage - they were [censored]. The teams would be balanced for about 2 minutes (Until the initial buffs wear off) and then its on. But, if the other team runs a second kinetic, They're set. Then its skill vs skill - because no roster has the advantage. If the minus range was an issue, you just need to run melee characters.
My point is - People assumed that you 'cant' run Melee or non-Fotm's because they don't work, when that wasn't the case. People assumed that since all people heard was 'lolmelee' that melee was broken completely, when that wasn't the case. People assumed that you needed completely Pimped out characters inorder to 'pwnnubs', when that wasn't the case. If my group has proved anything, its the fact that non-standard lineups can work against high end teams as long as they are built properly.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why People thought of the old PvP as 'exclusive' or 'Eliteskillrequired'
[/ QUOTE ]
I understand completely why people think the old pvp was exclusive to certain builds, but I'm pretty sure the only folks who think "eliteskillrequired" are limited to a select few pvp'ers who like to overstate how much "skill" is required to do well in pvp.
Your group used all sorts of different AT's, but how many matches did you win against teams who had "optimal" lineups when you fielded your all-melee team? (ZERO, right? Who would ever field an ALL-melee team??? Lolmelee)
The fact is the "optimal" lineup cannot be created by using any random powerset/AT combination, so many players feel like they have no place in competitive arena pvp. This was/is true both before and after the changes.
[ QUOTE ]
My point is - People assumed that you 'cant' run Melee or non-Fotm's because they don't work, when that wasn't the case.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you can run whatever you want and be competent, but if you want to compete with the best (and actually have a chance of winning) you need(3d) a very specific lineup that excludes many powerset/AT combos.
To Empire's point- I ran my ice/SS in i11 and i12 in zones and was more OP than now. We used to run toons that barely had SOs in Warburg and wreck uncoordinated teams.
A slight refutation of Empire's points- even with DR and IO'd toon has an advantage over a non-IO'd toon especially in damage and recharge, procs as well. However defense and resists are all messed up in the new system.
You can still evade but it is muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch harder. I'm not sure how this is newbie (or n00b) friendly.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Or am just a much better judge of quality.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, I've read plenty of your posts to know you're willing to settle for a much lower level of quality than I ever would.
[/ QUOTE ]
aka, you were bad at PvP and are mad at those that are better. It's ok. You can admit it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. I lost some, I won some, and I don't care if I win or lose. Hell Smurch got his first PVP kill in Bloody Bay at only level 18! Go Smurch!
I care if I have fun. Exteel, my deaths exceed my kills by 50%. When I first played Warhammer in beta, I said "I never had so much fun dying before". That said, I manage to keep a good flow of credits in Exteel from kills and in Warhammer, my Renown Rank is the same as my Character Rank. But that's besides the point.
Winning or losing isn't important to me. It's having fun playing. It's being challenged. I thrive on challenge in games. CoX PVP isn't challenging, it's BORING. And I do NOT go out of my way to be bored.