[ QUOTE ]
the "you use Hibernate!?" comment was cute, btw
[/ QUOTE ] Thank you. I have already made my stance clear on that subject: Hibernate is for (sarcasm on) winners with (sarcasm off) self-esteem issues. But lets not get into it again...
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your opinion doesn't really carry much weight with the rest of us, does it?
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The 'rest of us' being those that thought CoX PvP was any good? Well then thank the Lord for that! 
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Besides, where are the new subscriptions from other MMOs that these PvP changes brought in?
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I didnt say it did. Its still has a long way to go.
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Some people didn't like the lack of reward. Some people didn't like that they had to build their character differently. Some people didn't like the unpredictability. Some people didn't like that their Superman clone could die in half a second. Some people just didn't want to PvP. Some people might've even been turned off by the people they met while PvP'ing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Woot! We finally agree on something! But I think that the devs know all this and the changes made have made a difference. And its not just the rewards, but the dual builds and the different rulesets (See: Superman clone could die in half a second). I dont see anything wrong a different ruleset if its to balance the ATs. And, altho I LOVE the speed of the game, it was stupid in PvP: Thus DR, travel suppression, etc.
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Meanwhile, they've lost a large number of some of the best PvPers in the game
[/ QUOTE ]
I suppose you dont get it because you consider yourself one and it could be considered insulting but - Whats the value in being one of the best PvPers in a game with horrible PvP? (Answer: Nuthin.)
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the "you use Hibernate!?" comment was cute, btw
[/ QUOTE ] Thank you. I have already made my stance clear on that subject: Hibernate is for (sarcasm on) winners with (sarcasm off) self-esteem issues. But lets not get into it again...
[/ QUOTE ]
I stopped reading there.
POWERS ARE AN EXPLOIT
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
[ QUOTE ]
I dont see anything wrong a different ruleset if its to balance the ATs.
[/ QUOTE ]
You know, I would agree if it weren't for two things.
1) Things became more unbalanced than ever.
2) Those new rules removed a lot of what made the game fun.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
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POWERS ARE AN EXPLOIT
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Oh maybe you misunderstand. I dont think its an exploit at all. By all means keep using it. It doesnt give u any advantage, just make u look silly (in a zone). 
No more than most of the costumes in this game.
Hibernate is nothing more than a power to be used, just like any other. If you see me start to run because you have me in a situation that you could kill me, and chase me only for me to hit Hibernate at the last second with three of my friends right behind you, I'd say you would be the silly one for falling for it in the first place.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
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You know, I would agree if it weren't for two things.
1) Things became more unbalanced than ever.
2) Those new rules removed a lot of what made the game fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
And honestly, id expect youd think 1 if I knew you thought 2.
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No more than most of the costumes in this game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well i wont disagree w/that!
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You know, I would agree if it weren't for two things.
1) Things became more unbalanced than ever.
2) Those new rules removed a lot of what made the game fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
And honestly, id expect youd think 1 if I knew you thought 2.
[/ QUOTE ]
Naturally. Since it's been shown in a number of ways (contribution effect of buffers vs more damage, AT/set rankings, number of "viable" builds before and after) I'd say anyone who actually did their homework would think 1. As for 2, the population difference between then and now speak for itself.
Maybe that'll change with future changes to PvP. But from my point of view, it's unlikely.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
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As for 2, the population difference between then and now speak for itself.
[/ QUOTE ]Negative. You see, the prob is you suggested PvP was fun - and thats pretty subjective, population or not. Especially when u consider any damage that the craptastic PvP may have caused during all the years of its existence. These changes are a very late attempt @ damage control. (Oh and btw, I have noticed MORE zone PvP now than just pre i13, so I question the population comment anywayz.)
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Maybe that'll change with future changes to PvP. But from my point of view, it's unlikely.
[/ QUOTE ]
And I hope for the same, altho I may be a bit more optimistic.
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As for 2, the population difference between then and now speak for itself.
[/ QUOTE ]Negative. You see, the prob is you suggested PvP was fun - and thats pretty subjective, population or not. Especially when u consider any damage that the craptastic PvP may have caused during all the years of its existence. These changes are a very late attempt @ damage control. (Oh and btw, I have noticed MORE zone PvP now than just pre i13, so I question the population comment anywayz.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I've seen less, and the majority of reports from people who regularly frequented zones also state that there are fewer in zones than before. If it were considered more fun now (in general) than before, why such a drop in population? Wouldn't it make more sense that there would be a noticeably higher population of PvP'ers?
And don't get me started on that whole "Damage PvP caused" argument, because that's one of the dumbest subjects I've ever heard.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
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POWERS ARE AN EXPLOIT
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Oh maybe you misunderstand. I dont think its an exploit at all. By all means keep using it. It doesnt give u any advantage, just make u look silly (in a zone).
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree completely. Staying alive is silly, isn't it?
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
[ QUOTE ]
If it were considered more fun now (in general) than before, why such a drop in population?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because those that liked crap dont like things that arent crap?
And whether you choose to believe it or not, the damage has been done. But of course you wouldnt because you say you liked it before. Though if you can for a min assume that it was bad, then you might understand how it pushed people away (with the issues Mac has said) and how hard it would be to get them to give PvP another chance.
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If it were considered more fun now (in general) than before, why such a drop in population?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because those that liked crap dont like things that arent crap?
And whether you choose to believe it or not, the damage has been done. But of course you wouldnt because you say you liked it before. Though if you can for a min assume that it was bad, then you might understand how it pushed people away (with the issues Mac has said) and how hard it would be to get them to give PvP another chance.
[/ QUOTE ]
"crap" is a subjective term, thus differs from person to person. The population numbers aren't subjective, thus make a better measuring stick in this case.
If it was "bad" before, then this made things "worse" in nearly every way.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
[ QUOTE ]
Staying alive is silly, isn't it?
[/ QUOTE ]
Trying so hard to stay alive that you would use a power that takes you out of a fight (essentially running away) that has no real negative reprocussions other than maybe pride (self esteem) SUUUUUUUUUUUUURE is.
It takes longer to get back into the fight from the hospital after healing than it does from right in the middle of the fight.
Doesn't seem silly to me.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If it were considered more fun now (in general) than before, why such a drop in population?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because those that liked crap dont like things that arent crap?
And whether you choose to believe it or not, the damage has been done. But of course you wouldnt because you say you liked it before. Though if you can for a min assume that it was bad, then you might understand how it pushed people away (with the issues Mac has said) and how hard it would be to get them to give PvP another chance.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pot, meet kettle.
Fact is, people that don't want to PvP... aren't going to PvP. No amount of incentives or tweaking will change that. You can try and add lots and lots of rewards, at which point people will feel pressured to PvP just to keep up - but that's not a good business model by any stretch of the imagination. Fact is, both on the boards and in the game, I've seen far less people with positive things to say about the changes than I've seen negative. Does that mean all the people who don't like it are wrong? I really doubt that.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Still no one is posting to why the old system was broke. To why the new system is working. I see alot of people avoiding the answer.
If you have a good reason why you think the way you do please say so. But if all you can do is keep saying its broke and thats it please understand no one else will listen to you on here.
I'm trying to find out why people like the new pvp system when others that I have played with for years now all think its broke the way it is now.
If your not a real pvper I guess you really have no clue to what I'm asking.
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Staying alive is silly, isn't it?
[/ QUOTE ]
Trying so hard to stay alive that you would use a power that takes you out of a fight (essentially running away) that has no real negative reprocussions other than maybe pride (self esteem) SUUUUUUUUUUUUURE is.
[/ QUOTE ]
Right. During the time I've wasted going to the hospital, healing up, and traveling back across the zone, rather than hitting Hibernate and then jumping right back in, I could have...
* Kept my teammates alive through my buffs or heals
* Got another few kills in
* Upped my rep
* Got a PvP recipe or rare salvage
I don't play to lose - I take both powers that keep me or my allies alive, or defeat my enemies. PvP is min/max and if you're not min/maxing you might as well leave the zone.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
PvP is suppose to be tough not easy mode. If you are not up for a fight then you need to leave the zone. Us Pvpers build are toons for one reason and thats to win not cause they look pretty setting at some custome event. We play pvp cause well the content that is cox is lacking in a big way.
We pvp to have bragin rights, Just like a badge collector wants all the badges to show off what he has done. Now unlike alot of other people I'm not going to call the badge guy a loser he is playing the game the way he wants and that is fine.
So now pvp has change and some new blood has come to the pvp zone and think they are good when all in fact they are no better then they were before. If you were bad before your still bad but now you have a bandnad. And for the if you use a power your a noob well I have to say is this. If the power is there and it could save you and let you get the upper hand and you don't use it then your not a real pvper
I think some old players suppressed someone's intelligence... 
[ QUOTE ]
I think some old players suppressed someone's intelligence...
[/ QUOTE ]
How so cause I liked Pvp meaning something?
Not you.
[ QUOTE ]
Not you.
[/ QUOTE ]He's talking about 7Th Troll because as i read his nonsense in every thread, one thing remains consistent, he chooses to go against the majority just to see who feeds into it. If we all say water is refreshing on a hot day, he'll find a reason it's not and attempt to get us going.
This button mash fest is awful, even kills aren't satisfying, i built a toon about one week ago. Slotted him up sunday, and today i just got 400 rep, i can't tell you how i got most of it meaning no memorable fights, i just pew pew until my target died or i died. I haven't even been teaming, it's like what for, i'm only sticking around in the hopes the devs will concede and give us our i12 back or atleast a arena setting.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
To Macskull:
Pot? Kettle? Apparently youre as lost in the convo as Reiraku is. Ive been on that 'subjective' comment since page 1 and thats been my point since. Tho I dont think its that 'subjective', but of course you would never agree that - which was part of my point, etc etc.
To Darkson:
You keep spamming that question yet your bud Mac has already answered it for you. And he's on YOUR side. :P
To Ravens:
You think this is the majority? You guys just cry the loudest here, but i wouldnt say by any means majority. In fact, if you were to look at the bigger picture, at those that enjoy MMO PvP in general, Id say youre QUITE the minority. But then again, that may be just my 'subjective' opinion....or is it?
Thank You Macskull, I have to say it is nice to see others can see where the issues are and not try to candy coat the whole thing.
I would like these other players to point out where they think the pvp was broken. It is very easy to say it was broken and leave it at that with no more info then that.
But to have to back up that it was broken I have not yet seen. just a bunch of people saying they are having more fun now. Or yet others that say they never pvped before and find this new system better. Well if they never pvped before I see no reason they should think the old pvp system was bad, they might have had fun with the older system.