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Seeing as how there's a number of PvP SG's from Liberty that used to field several 8 man teams, I'd say you're full of it.
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Not sure to what youre referring too. PvP was dead in Liberty LOOONG before i13. Im specifically talkin abt the i12 era - and it was dead then. 8 people in RV IS unfortunately an improvement. A small one, but still.
Now if the question is did these changes to PvP get the numbers of people PvPing that they were hoping for - then thats a definite no. In fact, Id say theyre close to breaking even with those that left. But thats not to say that the changes still arent an improvement.
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Web of lies. Ever heard of Whirligig? Probably not, they pvp'ed regularly on Liberty. Hell I even transferred some of my own toons from Champion to pvp with those people on Liberty. I doubt you know who Robobug is, but he was in this test pvp VG called the Renegades ( AKA The Renegays). He was a pretty nice guy and he pvped regularly on Liberty along with several other people.
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Whirligig.
Look it up.
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Reiraku's on the ball here. Unlike you, 7th, he knows what the hell he's talking about.
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This is a bad example, no good pvper played melee toons in the old pvp"[/b] this is the total opposite of the truth a good pvp'r can play with just about anything and make it work i knew a few that own in zones with pb's for goodness sakes PB's. Now in a closed in setting like say the arena your chooses were limited to spines but zone anything could work.
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In zones it's easy to do well with just about anything since crappy players as well as good go there, I should have been clearer that good players would not play melee characters in high end team pvp, I think there were some on the 1v1 ladders but I only looked once or twice so I can't say.
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Lol. My team ran scrappers and tanks in the high end PvP arena.
I don't understand why People thought of the old PvP as 'exclusive' or 'Eliteskillrequired' My group, although highly skilled in my opinion, was not hardcore by anymeans. It took us a full year to get somewhat decent and we were probably the most dynamic team out there. Our roster had anything and everything. We ran controllers, defenders, tanks, scrappers, blaster. (Never ran a kheld, but that's another matter)
I can guess that the reason people thought of the old PvP as exclusive was because they weren't the best right away. It takes time to get good at something, expecially when the Skill cap is as high as it was in the old PvP. Skill cap is what makes a game competative.
The old PvP was easy to learn - it works similar to the PvE side in terms of My high damage attack in PvE is my high damage attack in PvP. The old PvP was tough to master - some may argue that it was impossible to master.
I feel that PvP was changed for the people that didn't want to devote the time necessary to learn the system and adapt to it. The system was changed to adapt to the player, and we have what we have now:
DR: No one can be truely better in a numbers term than anyone else
Supression: Commit or Phase - evasion not an option
Heal Decay: Healing support not a true option.
What the hardcore crowd is upset about is the hard counters that existed before are no longer there. If I wanted to counter a scrapper team, I would bring a controller heavy lineup. If I wanted to counter tanks, I would bring controllers and blaster. If I wanted to counter controllers, I would bring more support and heavy damage. A team leader would try to manage all the hardcounters out there to build a team that was balanced and could handle the brunt of other lineups. If a team saw that we were running our storm team, yet they refused to run a second kinetic because they wanted the second cage - they were [censored]. The teams would be balanced for about 2 minutes (Until the initial buffs wear off) and then its on. But, if the other team runs a second kinetic, They're set. Then its skill vs skill - because no roster has the advantage. If the minus range was an issue, you just need to run melee characters.
My point is - People assumed that you 'cant' run Melee or non-Fotm's because they don't work, when that wasn't the case. People assumed that since all people heard was 'lolmelee' that melee was broken completely, when that wasn't the case. People assumed that you needed completely Pimped out characters inorder to 'pwnnubs', when that wasn't the case. If my group has proved anything, its the fact that non-standard lineups can work against high end teams as long as they are built properly.
[/ QUOTE ]Qft, he hit it on the nose, i can remember on the ladder teams we would go in and do a match, let's say we faced 4 storm mm's and w/e eles and got wrecked. Round two they'd adjust to what was in the first so on and so forth. but he hit it on the nose...Qft
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
As far as line ups go in test hero leagues, yes melee was lol with one exception spines. But on the vill ladders stalkers set up the best spikes a optimal team might be 2 stk 2storm MM's 1 therm cor 2 sonic cors and a optional meaning you could squeeze a dom or another rupter in the last spot. Then i12 released and we got the glorious Forts omg that changed the ladders, when the first well trained forts hit the scene. But my piont is vill side wasn't all squishies.
Hero side in the old days, i could see a team with 2emps 1sonic 3 blasters 1token spines/regen 1stormie. Done right that team would give others some hell.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
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I don't understand why People thought of the old PvP as 'exclusive' or 'Eliteskillrequired'
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I understand completely why people think the old pvp was exclusive to certain builds, but I'm pretty sure the only folks who think "eliteskillrequired" are limited to a select few pvp'ers who like to overstate how much "skill" is required to do well in pvp.
Your group used all sorts of different AT's, but how many matches did you win against teams who had "optimal" lineups when you fielded your all-melee team? (ZERO, right? Who would ever field an ALL-melee team??? Lolmelee)
The fact is the "optimal" lineup cannot be created by using any random powerset/AT combination, so many players feel like they have no place in competitive arena pvp. This was/is true both before and after the changes.
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My point is - People assumed that you 'cant' run Melee or non-Fotm's because they don't work, when that wasn't the case.
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Yeah, you can run whatever you want and be competent, but if you want to compete with the best (and actually have a chance of winning) you need(3d) a very specific lineup that excludes many powerset/AT combos.
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You are correct that you couldn't peice together any characters and be good. I guess my sense is clouded because, well, anything worked with storms. Sure you had to have 5/6 out of 8 set for the lineup, but those other spots left open lots of possibilities that jump teams didn't have.