Feedback: Attention Base Editors! (ISSUE 13)
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2008-11-18 16:47 in Base Construction
Hey Ex,
Thanks for asking...
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Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
More than likely we will upgrade our plot. Other than that it's annoying because to take full advantage of it I'd have to undo and redo countless hours of work
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
Absolutely not on our main base. It's taken me an insane ammount of hours to create what I've made. On our smaller bases it depends on how much it's going to cost to remake stuff like teleporters and personal crafted items.
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
We will have a larger base most likely. Other than that it's hard to say.
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
Asking players to contribute rare salvage to the base is unreasobable. Especially in the face of the devs encouraging players to become more involved in PvP activities which will require them to beef up with IOs to compete in that system.
In essence you are asking the players to choose between their good and the good of the sg which seems unfair and foolish.
The effect on the market from both ideas being implimented will hurt smaller base builders I believe who have only themselves to either pray for good drops or buy rares at what I assume will be even higher prices.
The storage limit changes are just cruel and absolutely no explanation has been given for them. The limitations on storage should be undone.
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
I can't really say.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
Probably a few minutes.
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
Answered above.
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
I doubt anyone who is currently in our sg will steal from the group. But it does seem to encourage scumbags or foreign farmers to join sgs to loot and move on to teh next sg.
Additional Notes:
Instead of deciding what we need it would be REALLY appreciated and would earn the devs much loyalty to look at what we are asking for and moving in that direction.
I honestly believe that while base raids were on the box for CoV by now no ones going to lose sleep over this feature taking a bit longer compared to what we really see as the potential fro bases.
and please, can we have a regular medical bed instead of these heinous things with straps. 
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Thanks for yoru time and attention.
-Kohei
Kohei-Vigilance Committee Founder
"Cowards die many times before their deaths. The valiant never taste of death but once." - Caesar by Shakespeare
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Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
**this is a really nice addition, thanks its been a long time coming
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
** yes other than the TPs, see below
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
** a day or so
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
** positive - its cheaper to build a larger base. Negative - is the time wasted having to scrap everything and rebuild
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
** long - a much nicer base on a larger plot, Short - time spent having to rebuild everything
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
**WTF were you guys thinking. Having base builders and SG's in general now have to compete with IO's Dual Builds AND now base crafting out of a already small pool items when we ALREADY have the stuff needed to craft stuff for a Base. DO NOT blow smoke up my leg about "people" being dissapointed with seeing "slavage found" and its only base salvage doesnt wash...its horse bleep. And to make matters worse you are now FORCING people to use the "OPTIONAL" market and be at the mercy of the trolls over there flipping and playing City of Stockbroker. Why add needless layers of crap over a system that was not in any way, shape or form broken or needing anything done to it in the 1st place.
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
**NONE, zip nada...less than nothing, now I will have to spend inf to get the pieces I need because we all know the RNG will not land on everything we will need when we cash in a brainfart.....this is a big bad mistake on the Dev teams part, which we have been saying now for 3 weeks.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
** how hard is it to learn Keno? because thats what this system is when it comes right down to "hoping" the brainfart will lead to that one piece of slavage needed to make something. HOW frakking hard was the old system to learn? load up a bunch of salvage on a toon, look on the table to figure out what components were needed and then mash the buttons to make the components. Hell even a caveman could do it. AND IT DIDNT COST ANYTHING TO DO SO.
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
**You mean the 30 items of storage you have "Granted" us to go along with your shinny new IO salvage system....thanks for nothing. Effects? how about the now perceived notion that you people have lost your minds? that you are willing to take 1 step forward (rent and price reductions) and 3 giant leaps back with the rest of this tripe? How many more effects would you like?
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
**What security? you mean the crappy one we have in place now on Live where SGs are regularly robbed? In my SG once I clean out the bins of the now useless base slavage, I will be lockign down access to all storage to SG leaders only, which is going to screw everyone else because they wont be able to get IO out of storage or Insperations or the IO salvage out of the GIANT salvage racks that could be replaced with a file cabinet...they will have to wait till a SG leader logs on to get anything out of storage because with the way permissions are now, with being able to store Rare IO slavage, I will be damned if I will allow some knucklehead to come in and steal us blind and sell it on the market. If you guys cant see that coming....then.....well maybe game system design is not really for you.
Oh and Ex with the "no suggestions" part...your telling us that once again things are pretty much set in stone and because we have been pretty much ignored for about 3 weeks, we are SoL? Nice....why ask for feedback at all then?
And i do realize this was dumped in your lap....but really the shear gall of this is.....well.....galling
This is my second post on this topic. Here, I will be addressing how these changes effect The Technocratic Union, a 40+ member Supergroup with approximately 15 million total prestige.
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Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
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The Technocratic Union current base:
Small Secret Location 12x16 (4,671,491/722,000 P)
Rooms: Infirmary (150,000/100,000P), Oversight Center (50,000 P), Containment Alcove (250,000/100,000 P), Workshop 1x2 (50,000 P), Energy Terminal 2x2 (150,000/100,000 P), Energy Terminal 2x4 (750,000/190,000 P), 2 Teleport Chambers 2x2 (150,000/100,000 P each), Secure Teleport Bay 3x4 (600,000/253,000 P), Control Room 2x4 (750,000/145,000 P), Workshop 3x4 (400,000/230,000 P), 3 Workshop 2x2 (100,000 P each), Entrance (0 P).
Total room cost Live: 3,750,000 Prestige
Total room cost I13: 1,718,000 Prestige
Total Base items:
Basic Telepad x8 (15,000 P each), Teleport Beacon x16 (10,000 P each), Expert Worktable (100,000 P), Advanced Worktable (50,000 P), Basic Worktable (25,000 P), Personal Storage Vault (100,000 P), Basic Reclaimator (10,000), Auto-Doc (50,000/? P), Inspiration Collector x6 (75,000 P each), Salvage Racks x3 (15,000 P each), Supercollider (60,000 P) Enhancement Table x5 (25,000 P each), Invention Worktable (25,000 P), Terminal x4 (30,000 P each), Corner Terminal (32,000 P), Holodisplay (97,000/25,000 P), Monitor Bank (85,000/20,000 P), Supercomputer (1,5000,000/500,000 P), Combo Power and Control Unit (25,000 P), Arcane Crucible (30,000 P), Turbine Generator (1,500,000/1,000,000 P), 878 Decorative Items.
Total item cost Live: 6,004,000
Total item cost I13: 4,367,000
Total cost Live: 14,425,491 Prestige
Total cost I13: 7,803,000 Prestige
This is a *very* significant difference in cost for the better.
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2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
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I *really* do not want to. Given that the changes literally cut my current base prestige costs in half...I don't really see that I have a choice as a responsible SG leader and base designer. It'll let me add in the rest of the teleporter locations which we've been wanting to have for a while.
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3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
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It's going to take me 30-35 hours. That's what it's taken on previous upgrades/redesigns of the base. That's why I REALLY REALLY do not want to do this.
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4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
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The reduction of cost is extremely good. I'm very pleased by it. The requirement of redesigning the base in order to take advantage of the cost reductions is VERY BAD. It's going to take me two weeks of work with my schedule to rebuild the base and add all the decorations back in. And that's IF I don't actually play AT ALL and spend all of my free time working on the base. I'd like to be able to *play* the new content too. I don't want to spend that long working on the base. But it'll give the SG members a very good QOL upgrade by letting me add the remaining telepad locations.
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5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
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Short term, it's going to make me spend much longer than I want to redesigning the base. It's also going to let me enlarge the plot size and add 6 more telepads, 12 more beacons. In the long term, it means that I won't have to redo the SG base for at least 2 more years, barring more changes such as this one. I am not happy with the timeconsuming implementation of this change, but I am happy with the net results.
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Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
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I already have all of the telepads made with base salvage. In order to take advantage of the new prestige pricing for the Monitor Bank, Turbine Generator, Auto-Doc, Mega Monitor, Mission Computer, and Holodisplay, I'm going to need the following salvage:
Inanimate Carbon Rod, Scope x2, Spell Scroll, Plasma Capacitor x2, Brass, Chemical Formula, Clockwork Winder, Source Code, Human Blood Sample x2, Polycarbon, Luck Charm, Heads Up Display x2, Boresight, Mutant Blood Sample, Runebound Armor, Psionic Ectoplasm, Enriched Plutonium, Computer Virus, Daemon Program, Ancient Artifact.
This means that I am going to have to purchase *all* of these items, or otherwise farm/acquire them. The money or time for it is going to be coming out of my pocket. Now, I haven't done pricing on these items yet, but pricing for telepads suggests in the range of 50,000 to 60,000 influence per item, with the potential for pricing of over 1,500,000 million influence per item based on *current* Live salvage pricing. In other words, I'm effectively trading prestige costs for influence costs here. This is tolerable but painful for a level 50 with 33 months of active playtime. This is absolutely out of the question for a level 30 without farming.
Rather than contributing Base salvage, something which is very easy to earn and doesn't take anything away from personal character goals, players are being asked to contribute either influence or invention salvage. This is a detriment to personal enhancement goals both by costing influence which could be used to purchase enhancements and by using invention salvage which could be used to *make* those same enhancements. The other option is to have a single player take up the entire burden of purchasing salvage out of their own pocket, which is not fair to that player. It also does not remotely contribute to the team sense that a good supergroup should have.
We are also going to be unable to keep salvage storage in the base safely. I will address this point in security concerns below.
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2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
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I frankly don't see a positive effect for my SG in this implementation.
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3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
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Adjustment time is minimal, 15 minutes or less. Crafting time is NOT minimal, neither is purchasing and travel time.
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4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
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I forsee the pricing of Invention salvage to skyrocket due to multiple small VGs, such as this one, being able to make larger, much more functional bases. This will put a burden of demand on the specific salvage most commonly needed for base construction. Many of those items are also commonly needed in IOs and speciality recipes. Dual builds will also be increasing the demand for Invention salvage, as people create Inventions for both of their builds. (copied from previous post.)
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5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
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My security concerns are severe. We will have public storage of invention salvage available, but we have NO way of ensuring that other players will not simply take that salvage and sell it on the market. While we can use the very limited security settings available, setting security higher will impossible for lower-ranked SG members to use inspiration storage. That's not fair to them, but it's also completely out of line to expect SG leaders to open their SGs up to theft of high-priced invention salvage. Either there will not be any meaningful usage of invention salvage storage (as there currently is not with enhancement storage due to these same issues), or low-ranked SG members won't have access to ANY base storage at all. I'm not happy with either of those options at all. While I don't necessarily trust new members, I don't see any reason why we have to make it clear by barring them from storage access that we *don't* trust them.
@SithRose and @Sith Rose
Permanent resident of Virtue
"Mommy, I need Cthulhu. He keeps the bad dreams away."
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
I'll be able to make personal and small SG bases larger and more functional. However, I'll be spending alot of time redesigning, dismantling, and rebuilding/redecorating several bases.
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
I plan on dismantling and rebuilding two bases at the moment.
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
I expect the smaller base will take about a week to rebuild, at a couple hours per day.
The larger base will take a much longer time and I expect to be splitting the work with other people, even so, I bet it'll take over a month to fill out fully with decorations.
Getting bases functional will be much faster, it's decorating them and detailing them that will take lots of time.
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
Bigger, more functional bases on less prestige are a good positive. The negative is that starting from zero in order to get that positive is going to be very time consuming.
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
Longterm, more SG goodies should help recruiting, retention, and activity. Short term the group will be disrupted by the rebuilding process, losing a hangout spot while I'm working on it, and so on.
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
Minor, I consider the change of recipes not to matter much since base items are one-offs and rarely need rebuilding/replacing.
The reducing in storage salvage and the lack of detailed storage access controls make salvage storage effectively useless due to the risk of theft, and the reduction in storage capacity makes it even less attractive, thus taking a function away from bases.
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
None. We have plenty of base salvage and know how to use it. There's no benefit to us to changing to invention salvage at all, so far as I can tell.
Maybe empowerment stations using invention salvage will encourage more people to use them... that could be done without removing base salvage though.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
Already done thanks to PlasmaStream's guide. I just look up the recipe, buy the salvage, and go.
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
I think newer groups and groups without many established players may have a hard time getting all the inventions salvage they want. People can use that salvage to equip their own characters.
The brainstorm conversion process will probably result in a massive glut of rare salvage in the first weeks of I13 as people convert over, as they'll almost never convert into common or uncommon salvage.
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
People are going to look to steal salvage from SGs in the coming weeks (some people already are doing so) and to raid salvage bins in force after I13 goes live.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
Probably not much. There's some motivation among the officers of my hero-side SG to rebuild the base to snag the benefits of the reduced costs, but (see #2 and #3) it's not a particularly strong motivation. We have more than enough RP space and just upgraded plots in preparation for building a full set of teleporters on one side of the base. The reduced costs will make that a bit easier, but we have a lot of Prestige saved up.
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
Most likely not. A lot of our base is defined by having a lot of small, carefully placed items (lights, specifically), including one room with a ceiling completely covered in light sources. Rebuilding those rooms would be prohibitively expensive in time and effort, especially given the occasional base reverts that occur in the editor.
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
Our base was built by multiple people over the course of several months. I imagine it'd take at least 80 person-hours or so to rebuild it from scratch, so we'd probably start with simpler rooms on the edge of the base and go from there. The current prime target is our Energy room.
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
Really, among our officers, we don't see any negatives to this change. There's the implicit negative of having to rebuild to get the discount, but that's really the only downside we see.
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
In the short term, it'll make our impending upgrades cheaper. In the long term, we'll probably end up with a glut of Prestige; this'll probably lead us to building very expensive, yet unnecessary for us, upgrades (such as the top-tier Control and Energy items). That's not really a bad thing, but it'd be nice to have other things to spend the Prestige on for a non-PvP, non-raiding, RP-based SG.
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
The big problem here for us is having to rely on a highly competitive resource for base item construction. Now, in fairness, we don't commonly make constructed base items, but having to compete with people's drive for IOs might make it complicated to perform upgrades in the future. Convincing people to wait on a new set IO so we can build a new teleporter pad might be a hard sell.
We haven't looked at Empowerment Stations on Test yet, but if they're using Invention Salvage as well, they'll be even less useful than they were before. The utility of the buffs was relatively minimal given the cost before; if they eat Invention Salvage on Test, they'll be far less useful than their required components.
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
The only advantage I can see is not having to constantly refine Base Salvage into components. That's a pretty minor advantage, though.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
No time at all. The concept is simple enough.
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
I have security concerns, mostly; I generally trust the other players in my SG, but there are some I'm not so sure about. Also, see #1 with regards to interfering with planned upgrades.
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
The contents of the base salvage storage will suddenly become far more valuable. We already deny probationary members access to base storage, and our charter already explicitly mentions selling salvage for personal gain as a serious offense... but I know players, and I know there'll be someone who will decide they just need a *little bit more* Influence and will assume no one will notice the missing salvage.
Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
1) The repricing will allow me, assuming I dismantle my villainside base almost completely, to add in things which I haven't had the prestige to buy previously. Heroside, it might allow me to actually build a small but decent base eventually, when I've enough prestige for even basic stuff.
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
2) To gain the extra prestige is nice, but I've already dismantled the base redside for other reasons. Otherwise, I wouldn't have likely dismantled it just to gain the extra prestige.
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
3) The dismantling took maybe a half hour of selling things (and purchasing a small workshop space to hold my salvage racks temporarily). Putting it all back together again could take the better part of a day for simple, throw-together base. No such thing for bases I design, so it could be a few days of steady work.
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
4) The biggest concern is what to do with all the prestige I've built up redside. Seeing what I accomplished on test with a mere 5 million, I'm very intrigued. Negative concerns don't affect me, but I can certainly understand those SGs who've sunk huge amounts of prestige and their only recourse to recouping most of that is to dismantle their bases completely, including deleting lots of rooms and changing plot size just to get back the difference.
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
5) The short term will find that redside base will undergo some expansion/refocusing of its purpose. The long term, that the blueside base will actually grow a lot faster as prestige comes in.
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
1) The largest effect is having salvage racks that won't be able to hold all of the base salvage and nothing to do with it but convert it to invention salvage. So far, the salvage racks themselves will serve absolutely no use and won't be taking up space in my bases, and any SGs I'm in, I'm already telling the leadership/base makers to just get rid of these racks when I13 hits.
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
2) None that I can see.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
3) It's not about learning this new system. It's about adjusting to the price increases the market will inevitably see in regards to invention salvage (and prices are crazy enough on live already).
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
4) I see a lot of SGs getting rid of the salvage racks completely and taking up "dues" to help pay for base changes from now on. And as previously stated, I see an increase in invention salvage prices.
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
5) There certainly won't be as many people joining a SG anymore just to steal all the base salvage, and since most bases won't have the salvage racks, I foresee, they won't be stealing much more than inspirations or enhancements really.
Additional Notes:
There's a lot of dissension regarding the changes to bases and base salvage being removed from usefulness (at least from the people I know). There's also some concern regarding the items already crafted under the old system no longer working (something about these base items not accepting connections or not connecting to items, depending on the specific item; there've been some threads regarding this).
Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
i will be able to upgrade my base from a 8x12 to a 12x16 ,not bad for a solo base
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
*sigh* yes
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
all week most likely
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
should have been done years ago. and i feel this is a cop out of the newer base stuff we were suppose to get.plz stop thinking the base comunity is nieve
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
*shrugs*
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
for me personally it wont
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
again im solo base.no big deal to me
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
what new system?....you lowered prices ,you didnt part the red sea
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
bigger sg;s giving up salvage for the base?..gonna cause issues within bigger sg's no doubt.between i.o's,badges and bases not everyone will be wiling to be so "willing" to give up their salvage
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
now that i.o. salvage can go back into racks open to the public.rares will be stolen quite easily and s.g's will have trouvles since alot of those rares now used in bases will be at their finger tips...you bascailly left an open door to the bank vault for thieves to come in and steal.
Additional Notes:
dissappointment all together with these "base changes"
frankly it wasnt handled very well on the dev team part. alittle honest paragraph from posi about not getting a new editor would have stopped the hate.
also i only wanted new items not prices.items already IN the game opened to us.
that would have stoped half the hate you guys need better p.r. frankly.
Base Repricing:
1: How will this affect you personally?
Me, personally. Since I don't have a very elaborate base yet (going for high end power and control before gewgaws), it's just a bonus. FOR ME. I've been in several EXTENSIVE bases though, and the thought of rebuilding all of that, even to get MAJOR prestige back makes me want to wet myself.
I'll have a few pain points though. Luckily, NOT the teleporters. But, I pre-crafted a Turbine engine when I had the salvage for it. Now, since pre-crafted stuff won't drop at the new price, it's a VERY expensive mistake.
2: Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
Currently, because I'm still on the basic plot, I'm going to mostly see returns from replacing the supercomputer and basic generator (will roughly half the cost of my base back on that).
3: How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
Even though my base isn't horrendously elaborate, with the prestige saved, there ARE going to be changes. As such, I expect to spend at least 10 hours in there tweaking and fiddling. AFTER swapping.
4: What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
POSITIVE:
Cheaper means it's MUCH easier to provide a nicer, more functional base as a central hub for my supergroup. More teleporters are ALWAYS useful (we're a young SG worth only about 2.8 million prestige). It's not providing us with base-basics. It's allowing us to grow beyond what USED to be a MASSIVE cutoff point for many supergroups.
The first cutoff point is swapping between the combo unit and control room to dedicated power and control.
The upgrades beyond that (from Mainframe to Supercomputer, and from Basic Generator to Turbine) is a HUGE jumping-off point for a group. The price differential between Mainframe+DB to Supercomputer was the same as the differential between Supercomputer to AES.
I13 will change that. Now the big jumping off point will be to the third-tier equipment. Where it probably should be.
NEGATIVE:
The fact that pre-crafted items are still placed at the old price. Also the fact that these items are STILL gated by needing to be invented.
The time involved in rebuilding the base isn't a negative for ME. But, again, that's because I've been doing K.I.S.S.
5: How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
SHORT TERM
Very little. I have a LOT of storage to clean out first. Mostly IO. Used upcoming dual-builds, and the fact that my SG is fairly enthusiastic about them as an excuse to take the plunge for Field Crafter on my main toon. So we're sitting on several hundred common IOs of various levels (ALL COMPLETELY LOCKED of course).
LONG TERM
Once storage is cleared out, I anticipate having about a million in "liquid" prestige on-hand. This should double when I swap back the supercomputer, generator, and rooms.
That'll allow me to bump the plot size immediately, and I'll be placing multiple teleport units at that point (all pre-crafted, since there's no price change). This will make the group (especially at lower levels) INFINITELY more mobile within Paragon City.
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1: What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
It means I'm going to have to probably have to fund inventions MYSELF. I'm somewhat unhappy about that. Prior to this, base salvage was relatively worthless, save to very POOR toons. As such, the group was flush with the means to craft pretty much WHATEVER was needed, provided we could front the prestige to PLACE it afterward. Also, I worry that, with base salvage now being the same as IO salvage, that certain items needed for both are going to become ridiculously expensive. And certain items that are ALREADY ridiculously expensive for their given rarity are going to become impossible to obtain without paying the kinds of prices one would for some of the desireable rare (non-purple) IOs out there.
2: What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
Honestly? I don't see one. You've essentially traded one form of salvage (base salvage) for another (brainstorms), and are requiring base salvage. Sure, SOME players will drop Platinum, or a Hami Goo, or a Chronal Skip to the group for the Greater Good. But these sorts of self-effacing players are few and far between. Self-interest STILL governs people (including myself). If it were a choice between spending 30 million for another Purple or spending that 30 mil on the base? Even though I LOVE base building, I'm still more likely to go for the purple.
Whether this says laudable things about me or not is besides the point.
And yes, I've donated MORE than 30 million to my supergroup (at the extortionate exchange rate) already to get us over several humps.
Moreover, the IOs I crafted, while they could be a goldmine on the market, will be passed out to SG members beforehand by preference. Even if I take a loss in price.
I already have an IO storage container set aside with the IOs I plan to place on my primary toon's dual-build and will probably hold off on dual-building my alts until their primary builds are completed.
How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
Probably not long at all. I'm somewhat hamstrung on test right now because the SG I started, while it has the 5 mil prestige grant (and some truly NICE rooms), lacks the ability to craft higher-end items due to lack of time spent on Test (only got in after Beta opened up).
4: What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
The market is going to go nuts. There's going to be a huge price-war (as in inflation of prices) between people looking to build dual-builds on their 50's and base editors, which the base editors are going to lose.
So, while the base may cost less PRESTIGE-WISE, we're probably going to see actually CRAFTING items rise in terms of INF by several orders of magnitude.
Now, instead of having the stuff ready and awaiting the prestige to place it, we're likely to see the prestige put together LONG before someone ponies up to build something.
5: What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
None. The minute I found out about what was happening, I turned off removal rights to everyone save myself. They can still place stuff in. They just can't get it out. And I'll act as the gateway on that.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
I ended up inheriting a moderatly large base, that only a few people still use. I also have a 50 who has large amounts of inf as my base owner/ base builder.
Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
I had just been able to get enough prestige to buy my base up to the 3rd size. The repricing means that I will be able to buy a much larger plot, both in cost and in lowered thus offordable rent.
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
Yes. My plan is to upgrade to a larger plot, build new rooms, and move the stuff I want to keep to the new rooms, then dump the old ones, thus getting the maximum prestige gain posible.
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
When I went from the second to the third size plot, I spent about 4 hours dragging rooms around, deleting decorations so that I could put in new doors, moving stuff from room to room, getting the floor hights to match up, ect. I exspect it will take about the same amount of time to do it this time also.
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
I can now afford to get a much larger base than I could ever before, and some of the items that would be years of prestige gain away I can now afford. All in all I very much like the drop in prices.
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
Short term I'll spend about 4 or 5 hours remodeling the base. I should be able to upgrade to the next larger control and energy systems. I'll likely have a large amount of extra space on my plot that I will not be using right now, I may open the base up to the few others in my SG to make their own private rooms in that space.
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
In my case I don't see it making much of a difference. Most of the stuff I want/need for PvE I already have made. What new stuff I make, I'll be able to easily make from market salvage. I have a 50 with lots of inf, and I know how to work the market to get bargains.
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
I don't see any upside. The base salvage was just something that built up, and once a year or so when I was bored, I would deal with it. Now I don't have to spend that 30 minutes a year dealing with it, but that does not really seem to be a reason to change it.
Honestly, I don't believe that the stated reason 'because base salvage confused people' to be the real reason. I think a lot of the base angst could have been avoided by a better reason. For example if you said that the Devs wanted to remove base salvage as it took up a huge space in the data base and if removed you could replace it with better stuff, I don't think the level of complaing would have been nearly so high.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
Already done, took about 5 minutes of reading to understand how it all works.
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
The salvage market is going to be unstable for a long long time. Lots of people will convert thier base salvage to invention salvage quickly, and flood the market, but there will also be lots who will for one reason or anouther, do it later. So you will see wild dips as salvage gets dumped on the market, dropping the price, and then it starts to recover.
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
I have enhancement bins that are kept filled with common IOs so that alts and friends toons can just grab them instead of having to buy SOs or deal wth the market, something they do not enjoy. Thus my base salvage bin, and the high end bin where I keep purpels and proc IOs that I plan to slot later are also open to being grabbed. I trust my friends, but it would be nice to be able to set permissions per bin.
Additional Notes:
Right now, no matter the size of the base, you can only have 18 storage bins. I find that number to be limiting. I like to organize things, and if you try that, you run into the limit very quickly. Even more people are going to hit the limit now that they can have to room to put in banks and banks of bins, but the system will not let them.
Someone suggested recently, that you be allowed to belong to multilple SGs at once. This or the ability to have personal sub-bases. would be a good solution to most of the problems that I have with base security. If I had my own base, I could keep the stuff I want locked away where only I can get to it, while leaving the stuff I want people to use in the main base. Everyone gets thier own base to play with, decorate however they like, store thier own stuff in, and the main base holds the groups stuff, and all the transporters.
Global is @honcho
On Champion
Living Coal LV 50 Fire/Fire Tank
Nature Boy LV 41 Earth/Kin Cont
Great Wacko LV 34 Robot/FF MM
plus many alts
Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
We will be upgrading plots in 4-5 small bases, using larger rooms such as Energy & Control (we are already using the largest Workshop)
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
Not much dismantling since most of what we will be doing is growing into more available space. Also I *DO NOT* want to even try to re-craft any telepads using the current recipes on Test (see later comments on crafting telepads).
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
The biggest time sink would be getting the Invention Salvage to craft base items. I don't have nearly the required salvage on any one character and would have to go buy it at WW/BM.
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
Positive - We can have a larger plot, larger rooms for Energy & Control.
Negative - Except we really can't have large rooms that are just decorative due to them becoming significantly more expensive.
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
Long Term - not so much
Short term - Lots of work designing the bigger rooms and more work to get the inf/salvage for the items to go into them
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
All my base salvage will take time to convert to Invention via Brainstorming. And based on what I had to do on Test to try to get enough *useful* salvage for 8 telepads, I don't expect that I will be using the Base Salvage on hand to make the new telepads - I will have to go to the Market to buy necessary salvage (11 usable pieces of salvage out of over 600 pieces of base salvage converted).
Also, I will lose current capacity to store Halloween Salvage. My SGs are mainly 2-3 people with lots of alts who like to make costumes. We specifically accumulated costume salvage last month, only to find out when Beta opened that we would be limited in storage to keep it. BTW, the current units used to store base salvage are ungainly and UGLY and hard to fit into any decor scheme other than trying to hide them. And now I have to try to work more of them in (ugh!)
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
Not for my base per se, but now I can move inention salvage between my own alts using the base very easily (assuming I have enough storage space to do so). Otherwise zero positive effect, and I don't see this one as all that positive since I rarely shared salvage between alts anyway.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
Done already, although shopping for the new recipes was a PITA.
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
- Groups who keep up on the coming changes will weather this just fine. Those who didn't check the Testing Forum will be getting a very nasty shock.
- Related to the above: The market will go even more "out of kilter" because not only will people be trying to IO their dual builds, they will also be trying to buy salvage to re-do bases.
- Due to the invention salvage cost, more bases will have severe limits on who may edit bases.
- Players will have to decide if a particular character will be dedicating Inf to base building or to crafting IOs (to supply the SG)
- New SGs starting out will have to make diffiicult choices between getting IOs for the members or building telepads, upgraded control & energy, etc.
- Lack of individualized security controls on storage will lead to a rash of 'thefts" of the more valuable invention storage
- Groups will not be able to store up special event salvage for future use (costume salvage for new alts or CC prizes, for example) - although to be strictly fair, AFAIK, individual characters will still be able to store such salvage in somewhat more generous quantities.
- More space within bases will be used up by the large ugly salvage storage buns as opposed to the more aesthetically please enhancemen tables or inspiration bins,
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
For my own groups, none, since I also know where all the members live (literally in my own home). For others, I don't see how anyone could feel comfortable allowing access to storage if anything at all valuable on the Market is stored, but that is not a new problem,
Additional Notes:
- I am also in the group wondering why we made so many prior lists only to be asked to do it again. It appeared that great attention was paid to the uproar over PvP changes while nearly zero was paid to Base Building concerns (3 measly threads in which LH said nothing more than "we hear your concerns" with no resolution offered as compared with pages and pages of discussion from Castle over PvP). Although I understand that PvP appears to be a big future focus and therefore deserves a lot of attention, ignoring other areas is not good business.
- Like several others have stated, my SGs will *NEVER* be engaging in any base raids. My bases are personal space for storage and transportation. If it ever comes about that all bases must be made available for raiding - I will dismantle them all and likely disband the underlying SGs and never join another SG. I cannot express too strongly how distasteful I find the idea of base raids to be.
- Rather than simplifying the system to make bases more accessible, I feel that the change from base salvage actually makes starting up a new SG/base more difficult. The lowest level rooms and items (Oversight Room, Combo Unit) have not been reduced in price, and in fact, the cost of telepads is arguably more expensive, both in inf costs at the market and lost opportunity costs of forgoing IOs.
- The recipes are somewhat outrageous. Seriously, why does a basic telepad require any rare salvage at all? It's the one single most used item in base building (bases only use 1 generator or supercomputer but they use at least 4 telepads). And then to require a LUCK CHARM for the lowest level Tech recipe? When even during the glut of them caused by ToT, they never fell below 12K inf heroside? Please, please reconsider your recipes. (Since you said no suggestions, I am guessing that a request to eliminate any crafting requirement for telepads at all is probably out of scope).
PlasmaStream has done a very good job capturing most of my feelings as wel, so please consider those comments as copied over here. I also second Remidi's post.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
It will allow me to greatly expand the size of our base. This will have absolutely zero impact on base functionality as we already have every functional item we need, but it will allow for all sorts or cool new RP spaces.
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
Absolutley. I think I will net about 10 million prestige in the process.
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
A few days, maybe a week. Depends on how much time I have to work on it. Of course, that's just to rebuild. Expanding will take more time.
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
Other than having to take the one time timesink of rebuilding the base to get the 'Prestige Grant', there are really no negatives. The big positive is that, with reduced rent costs, we can actually afford some of the larger plots. As a small SG, we simply don't generate enough prestige to afford the old rent on the biggest secure plots. This is now no longer an issue.
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
In the very short term, there will be the hassle of rebuilding. Beyond that however, there is years worth of gaming at our prestige gathering pace before we fill up the largest secure plot with completely decorated rooms.
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
It means that, as base architect, I need to actually shell out my own influence for components *or* hit up the SG for donations. Now, I can convert enough base components into invention salvage that upgrading is unlikely to leave me out of pocket, but the issue here is that I'll be sacrificing an unlimited stream of incoming components that are only useful for base building and getting nothing to replace them. When the cash generated by liquidating whatever I get for converting my existing component supply is gone, the rest is coming from my pockets.
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
None really.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
I've already pretty much mastered it. It was not really more difficult than the whole walking and chewing gum thing...
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
For my SG? None. Save for it actually costing me Influence to do base upgrades in the future...
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
I don't really see it creating security concerns any worse than the current Enhancement storage system. Storing a crafted Numina Unique in SG storage is no more or less risky than storing a Hami Goo or Deific Weapon in SG storage.
The Lich-King (50 Elec/Energy/Elec Blaster)
Co-Founder & Base Architect, Great Minds SG
Pinnacle Server (@Lich-King)
MA: "Death to Disco" (Arc ID# 167748)
- "Go. Hunt. Kill Numina."
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
Very little. My SG's main base's on Justice are already complete for the most part.
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
No, never.
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
To rebuild? days maybe even 1-2 weeks on no ingame playing and after my work hours, I am the only base designer for all 3 SG bases and having to recreate all the base pieces with IO salvage none the least will prolly take longer since I am not a rich toon to have all the salvage needed. I would much rather " play" the game than have to rebuilt these bases from scratch.
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
There are no negatives. It will make future development faster.
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
I don't expect it will affect me at all in the short term, and little in the long term.
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
IO's are going to sky rocket in price, for newer SG's in the future this maybe a difficult hurdle to over come. Personally in our current base I do not see issue since we are established already and have most of the perks. I do think that needign teir 3 salvage to make a tier 1 base item seems a bit unfair.
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
not sure what the future holds, currently we have what we need. I think for future SG's the prices on salvage will be a problem for them.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
I already have
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
I think that the limit of 18 bins needs to be increased now since the amount that can be carried now has been lowered from 2500 to 30. I thinking having 25 bins at minimun should be effecient (note that includes insperations/salvage/enhancement/vault in total we can only have 18, I think this should be raised to 25)
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
being that there was a bug in the past of people being able to enter a Sg base and rob it clean without even being a part of the SG or coalition, and in time sometimes things take a nose dive in the sense where I can easily picture a theme of who is your friend today may not be your friend tomorrow could do something out of malice. (I hate to even think that, but I have heard stories of that coming true) I do feel that there should be security restrictions on individual settings, such has salvage bins, enhancement bins, insperation bins, etc..
Further more I feel that if a base is robbed there should be something the victims could do and haev NCsoft step in to help. the currently system is laughable, one can rob a base and not even be punished for it, doesn't seem fair.
Additional note:
Can we get some more free base items?? We need more wall items, celing items, and maybe water fountains.. issue after issue have gone by and not "many" new shiny things to put in the base 
.
Post Comic book Fan Films that ROCK!
Fight my brute
Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
I will be able to expand all of my current bases. They are already "done," as in fully functional for what my SG uses them for, but I will have way more design options with bigger plots and bigger rooms.
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
I will not dismantle. I will take the refund where it is easy to do so (buying a new plot on top of the old one, replacing my Supercomputer) but I will not replace rooms that have had hours of work poured into them. I will also not recraft base items using Invention Salvage.
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
If I were to completely dismantle everything and rebuild from the ground up? A very long time. Even with easier stacking it would still take weeks to rebuild. What I am actually planning on doing will take minutes.
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
I am concerned that a bigger base will take more time to decorate and make awesome. Of course I like building bases, so it's not really a concern. Negatives: I wish we could have the costs refunded automatically to eliminate the need for rebuilding, but I understand if that is not practical. I do foresee having to fend off the "Why aren't you replacing this stuff for the prestige refund?" questions from SG-mates who don't understand how much time and work goes into building a base.
The rent change, while it will be great for our bigger bases, will not be good for our small bases we set up for our static teams. Currently we don't pay rent on those bases. The trifling amount we will have to pay in i13 will be an inconvenience and a pointless time-sink.
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
Short term, not much, since as I said our bases are as functional as we need them, and I have other things I want to play with when i13 goes live. Long term it will mean more options for me as a base designer, and probably more time spent in the base editor.
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
It will make construction more of a hassle. Under the current system I ask my SG members to drop off their base salvage in the storage bins, and when I need to craft something I simply take what I need and craft the item. It is simple and takes almost no time to do. Under the i13 system I will have to plan what salvage I need, and either beg my SG mates for donations or pay the cost out of my own pocket. This will be expensive and a hassle.
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
There is none.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
Not long, from what I've seen on test. It didn't take me long to learn the old one either though.
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
Salvage storage racks will become useless as people fill them up with worthless commons in an attempt to "help." A salvage rack with less capacity than a level 30 character with a badge is pretty useless anyway.
Invention salvage will be in high demand as people who don't read the forums or participate in open beta find out they can have more stuff. New issues always cause some market instability though, and it'll eventually level off. This change also widens the imbalance between tech and arcane bases.
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
None really. I will still have to figure out what to do with the base salvage we have accumulated, but most of my SG tends to dump it off and forget it exists. We are a small group though, we don't recruit often, and everybody knows everybody else. Larger groups might have more concerns.
Additional Notes:
I am not interested in using my base for raiding. My SG is not sufficiently interested in raiding to make it an actual possibility. Most of them avoid PvP like the plague. Removing the need to make bases raid-compatible is the best thing about the i13 base changes IMO. (NOT removing base raids. Raids should be available to those who enjoy them. I am simply happy that I don't have to be limited by a system I will never use, and I hope for the sake of those who do raid that the devs find a solution to allow them their raids without affecting those who will never raid).
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally? It'll mean my vg will be able to expand 2-3 plot sizes and afford defensive items.
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing? Yes indeed.
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice? Estimate 6-8 hours, possibly more.
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing? Lower prices are a good thing. No negatives regarding repricing per se. But I am concerned about being "raid ready" after this rebuild with the new pathing. I would hate to have to rebuild my base still again to allow raids.
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term? Short term it's a major rebuild effort to take advantage of greatly reduced prices. Long term it's a major rent savings and expanded room capacity to hopefully hold new items.
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation? There are many negative effects. It's starts with a tedious salvage coversion process. Then there is the extremely limited storage capacity for both IO and event salvage. There is the idea of the need to play "Russian Roulette" to attempt to convert brain storms into meaningful IOs for crafting. Next there's the increased competition for IO's across the board (bases, dual builds, empowerment stations, etc.). This has got to cause prices to rise, especially in the short term by a great deal. A burden will undoubtedly be placed on sg leaders to personally provide the IO salvage for crafting. In addition, many of the recipes (for tier 1 items) are unreasonable. Toss in security worries for IO theft, the removal of a "group asset" (base salvage) to craft base items and you pretty much have the WORST measure ever imposed on the base building community. I have strongly opposed this since closed beta.
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation? There are NO positive effects on my base for this feature implementation. We would be FAR better off either leaving base salvage as is or removing crafting recipes all together and going with a direct prestige buy system.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system? I've "learned". I just hate it.
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system? I pretty much covered it in number 1) above... and the effects are all bad.
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change? This will be a quantum increase in theft of both whatever base salvage left in the bins as well as any brain storms and especially IOs. Lots of sg's and inviduals will be hurt by this.
Additional Notes:
Communications between the base builders and the devs is at an all time low.
If this base salvage conversion goes live, the outcry will be worse than at present as many experience the detrimental impacts first hand.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
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Did I read this correctly. Will my currently rent free base, going to have to pay rent because I have salvage and enhancement racks? My SG is me, so any rent is a HUGE impact.
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Yes, but the absolute maximum in rent you can have is very low. We're talking maybe 2 or 3 missions played in SG mode. It's not going to be hard for ANYONE to generate enough to pay such a small amount every six weeks.
It's still a negative change if you were on the default 8x8 plot, yes, but absolutely no one will ever have problems paying rent under the new system, which you can't say for the current system.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the answer. But, I don't care diddly if it only takes me 15 minutes a month. This is just more of the hatred for all things solo.
Issue 13, can I give interact directly with my own characters, no.
Can I even just invite them to my own SG, no.
What can I do with my own characters that I cannot do today, nothing.
Has castle with his special kind of love screwed my characters again, yep.
Does anybody know when Diablo 3 is coming out?
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Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
[/ QUOTE ]
If I teardown to take advantage of the repricing, for all intents and purposes I'm going to have to demolish everything back to the Entry Room and rebuild everything from scratch. If I don't take advantage of repricing, it will have no effect whatsoever.
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2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
[/ QUOTE ]
It is simply not possible to gain additional prestige from repricing WITHOUT wholesale demolishing of not only Base Items, but also Rooms those items go into.
[ QUOTE ]
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
[/ QUOTE ]
At least a Man-Day worth of work, in game time. That's time spent NOT playing the rest of the game and needing to be anti-social while working on the Base.
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4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
[/ QUOTE ]
Positive: that it is happening at all.
Negatives: Base Rent is now so trivial as to be (almost literally) pointless, tedious and synonymous with "Not Fun" now. The necessity to demolish/replace manually rather than by automatic scripting process. No advantages (price wise) to choosing Hidden Plots for four of the plot sizes.
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5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
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Short term, this Issue has gone from being "The Architect" to being "The Demolisher" in my view. Long term, it will make large, sprawling bases the norm rather than the exception. Decorating costs will become higher, in proportionate although not absolute terms, for Art Bases.
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Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
[/ QUOTE ]
Invention Salvage is an inherently more limited and limiting resource, which is viewed more in personal terms than as being a group commodity to be shared. Salvage Storage changes are SEVERE and crippling (as revealed to date).
DO NOT WANT!
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2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
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NONE. 
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3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
[/ QUOTE ]
Longer than it will take the market manipulators to find a way to exploit the situation to my (and others') detriment.
The new system is cumbersome, unnecessary, unhelpfully limiting and calls into question why some items require crafting at all in order to be constructed.
[ QUOTE ]
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
[/ QUOTE ]
Balkanization of SG memberships into fragmented coalitions. Increased use of "personal bases" so as to overcome security issues not addressed that make theft of resources even more devastating.
[ QUOTE ]
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
[/ QUOTE ]
Without the ability to fine tune security settings on a Per Rack basis, this new system is practically doomed to being exploited even before it launches. The lack of security fine tuning is almost an invitation for theft. This promotes potential paranoia, mistrust, and possibly even acrimony among people who should be able to trust each other and consider each other friends.
[ QUOTE ]
Additional Notes:
[/ QUOTE ]
Repricing upside: lower costs to buy going forward.
Repricing downside: massive waste of player time to take advantage of for legacy bases.
Elimination of Base Salvage: unnecessary and unwanted. A solution in search of a problem that successfully creates new complications where none previously existed. Was not broke ... stop trying to fix it. DO NOT WANT!
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
<ul type="square">[*] It will definately free up a bit of prestige for my small HG to the point were I can effectively expand the base into a more workable format[/list]
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
<ul type="square">[*]Yes I'm seriously considering at least a partial dismantle to make effective use of the prestige that's currently locked in[/list]
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
<ul type="square">[*]Well I'd say at least 2 weeks, say about a minimum of 28-35 hours for a basic revamp[/list]
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
<ul type="square">[*]The amount of time that could be invested actually playing the game that will be taken up by the revamp is one negative[*]Also wether it'd actually be cheeper overall to craft the items & sell the originals back or if it'd just be more expensive due to cost of needed salvage if they're not easily on hand to replace the number of base items I have[/list]
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
<ul type="square">[*]Short term will be the loss of actual game time to rebuild the base even partially[*]Long term will be the savings in rent unless the rent increases due to the salvage bins needed for my SG to function overcome that[/list]
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
<ul type="square">[*]Having to rely on SG mates generosity when they already have a hard enough time getting the salvage they need to make they IOs the want for their alts[*]Having to increase the number of Salvage bins we'll need in the base to contain not only IS but Event Salvage also, since my SG suffers from Severe Altitis among all members whom also LOVE having multiple costume slots early on[*]Possibly having to tighten up all base bin permissions & have tougher promotion requirements to make "stealing" unfeasable to new members[/list]
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
<ul type="square">[*]the fact that we will be able to pass needed salvage between alts without needing another SG mate on is the only real benefit I see at this time, though it IS a big one![/list]
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
<ul type="square">[*]Shouldn't take long at all to get the hang of it, though it Might still be a PITA in the actual implimentation[/list]
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
<ul type="square">[*]I see demand for specific Invention Salvage getting to the point where some SGs may be unable to effective create the items their bases need without having to Demand their Members to contibute actively[*]I see SGs already starting to horded Base Salvage to convert to Brainstorms & stocking their Salvage Racks as full as they can with both BS & Event Salvage[*]Bases being forced to make their racks inaccessable to new/general members till much stiffer membership requirements are met or only senior member handing out to lower ranked members so bin theft is prevented/ reduced[*]having to drastically increase the shear number of salvage bins in base to ensure there's enough for SG demands once original bins are depleated[/list]
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
<ul type="square">[*]Being forced to make all bins harder to get into for lower ranks SG members in order to reduce prevent pilfering of all the bins[*]Needing the ability to set access permissions on a bin by bin basis to enable smoother SG function without having to lock down Base Bin access to a select proven few[/list]
Additional Notes:
<ul type="square">I would strongly recommend increasing the salvage bin allotment to a min lvl of 60 salvage, 100 if Event Salvage is continued to be counted along with Invention Salvage[/list]
Confusion is Lord & Chaos is my Best Friend!! Shall I introduce you??
MArc# 5232 Bastet's Unleashing *a Solo-able arc*
Gae'Atha- lvl 50 Emp/Ele/Psi Def
Sekmet's Fel Blood- lvl 50 Rad/Ther/GW Corr
Disclaimer: Every super group and villain group for which I'm the architect consists only of me and my characters.
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Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
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It will enable me to do more with less. I can now envision getting a teleporter to every zone, whereas before the smallest plot size wouldn't allow that without also foreclosing vital storage options.
It will enable me to build more functional bases on servers that I don't play as much. This will be very nice.
Since rent is no longer tied to plots, I will be able to consider upgrading to something larger than the smallest hidden plot.
I will be making regularly scheduled trips to Port Oakes and Atlas Park to pay rent, as if I'm reporting to the principal's office or seeing my parole officer.
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2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
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Yes. I'll upgrade to a larger plot so that I have room to move things around, and so that I can use the old room as a model while I build its cheaper i13 replacement. I'll move storage containers into the i13 rooms before deleting the i12 rooms. I will probably not replace the storage containers, since some of them don't get any cheaper, and the ones that do I'd rather keep packed with 2,500 pieces of salvage until I'm ready to remove it.
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3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
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Maybe an hour for the first base, and 20 minutes or so for each base after that. My bases are not decorated. I have 7 bases across 4 servers, so I estimate a total of 3 hours or so. My estimate is on the low side mainly because I don't decorate my bases - I have better things to do with the prestige, although that may change once I rebuild and see how much prestige I've recovered.
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4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
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Positive: The repricing changes put more base power in the hands of small SGs and one-person SGs. This is a good thing. The base builder is a good tool, and making it more accessible to more players is only good for the game. This gets us a step closer to giving people their own "apartments."
Positive: It puts less pressure on large SGs to earn prestige, which means less pressure for them to milk lowbies for their high prestige earning potential, and less incentive for them to recruit lowbies solely in order to exploit them for prestige.
Negative: Some folks will have to pay rent who never had to before.
The changes to rent are a double-edged sword for me. On one hand, I can now contemplate moving to a larger plot size, because if I'm going to be paying rent anyway I might as well give myself some more elbow room. On the other hand, suddenly I'm going to be paying rent, when I never have before. I thought giving small SGs the opportunity to live a rent-free existence was one of the better base system revisions ever made, and I am not happy that I have to choose between having storage/workbenches/empowerment stations and paying rent. I realize that the rent price is small, but I'd rather not have to trundle over to City Hall/Marconeville every so often. If the price is small enough for me not to have to worry about paying it, why do I have to schlep all the way over to zones I never go to otherwise in order to pay it? I'd pay double rent if I had the option to do it from my base.
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5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
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Long term: I will achieve what I consider to be full base functionality on multiple servers sooner.
Short term: I'll be spending ~3 hours retooling my bases.
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Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
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The pain of having to convert a lot of base salvage to invention salvage. There must be a better way than doing it one at a time.
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2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
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To my base, it's the fact that I will be able to convert my worthless and superabundant base salvage into valuable invention salvage. I haven't counted how much salvage I have across my bases, but if the RNG is good to me when converting, I should make some good money from this.
I will also find it much easier to get the salvage I need when crafting base components. There is a brisk trade in invention salvage on the market, and it's clear what pieces I need. Neither of those things was true for the base salvage market.
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3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
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Oh, not long. I already have a decent handle on it from futzing around on Test and reading the boards. An hour will get me 90% of the way there, and dithering and making mistakes here and there for another week (elapsed time) will get me the rest of the way.
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4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
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More pressure on the market to provide salvage. There will probably be an initial surge in demand from people who have inf saved up and want to convert everything in their bases over immediately.
Allowing people to add invention salvage to bases will probably drop market supply across all salvage categories for a while as the bins fill. There will probably be a subsequent amortized drop as rules are gradually established about only putting rare salvage in bins.
Base salvage will become a collectible item after the pragmatists have converted all of theirs. Some wealthy SGs will keep pre-13 salvage racks stuffed with 2,500 pieces of base salvage as a sort of collecter's case.
It will become much harder to hoard event salvage.
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5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
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This change doesn't alter my security concerns at all. Group-based permissions are inadequate when you have more than twenty permission attributes but only five groups (SG ranks). The i13 changes don't make this any less pressing a concern. The tools we have are inadequate to the job at hand. This is one of the two major reasons I remain alone in my private Supergroups.
Storage permissions need to be split into different groups. It'd be ideal if they could be made per person and per container, but that's a lot of complexity; another approach would be allowing SG leaders to create more than 5 SG ranks. An acceptable compromise would be creating permissions per SG rank per container type (i.e. Rank4 can use enhancement bins but not salvage bins).
What's more, permission to put things into storage bins needs to be decoupled from permission to remove things from storage bins.
Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
My base is small, so not a lot gained now, but I will sell to get the difference.
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
Yes, also to switch from Magic Theme to Tech.
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
A Couple of hours tops. Small Base 8 x 8 base.
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
Negative - Rent on start up bases, small storage.
Positive - Generally cost less (until you start adding crafting items cost)
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
Long term - It won't subscription runs out in March, debating on staying or not.
Short term - Waste 2 hours to rebuild, and keep some cash back for my new rent.
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
Dont have any base salavage stored, but do have tons of halloween costumes and candy canes.
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
Can now afford a couple of extra TPs. outside of that nothing.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
I know where Parawikia is, and I can read.
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
High cost of rare salavage on the Market.
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
None. Its a base of 1 real person many many alts. I plan on not stealing from myself.
Additional Notes:
Need to drop rent and up storage. A few more items to make the place feel a bit more homey but not City of SiMs.
(edited because it posted before I was done.)
Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
Our base is going to be able to be a lot bigger due to the reduced prices and rent, and my two personal bases that I use for storage will now have rent. This wouldn't be that big of a deal, except I never play those alts, because I'd rather be contributing prestige to my actual SGs instead of just my storage bases. I haven't had time to duplicate their bases on test, but it looks like I'll have to do the equivalent of about 3 missions every 2 weeks with them to maintain them. That's not a huge deal for me, but it might be for people with less time.
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
Eventually. Perhaps not until I14, if more base changes/additions are coming, because we'd rather not do it twice.
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
About 10 hours to recreate what we have.
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
The only negative about the new item costs is that we will have to recreate the base to take advantage of it. The positives are that we will be able to expand the base, both in size and function (more storage), and not worry about rent.
The negative about the new rent costs are that small storage bases now cost rent when they didn't, and the positive is that huge bases cost WAY less rent.
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
Short term it will be a headache recreating the base. Long term it will be great, allowing us to have a larger, even more functional base.
For storage bases, the effect is the same short and long term-- I have to play those two alts far more than I'd like to.
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
We've got enough base salvage stored up to randomly convert to the invention salvage we need to make the new versions of the items, so that won't be a problem.
The relative costs of some empowerment station buffs should go up over the long run, though, and the 30 item storage limit is shockingly small. We'll end up needing to devote two more workshops just to storage to have a reasonable amount of storage.
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
Empowerment station buffs will be simpler, since we won't have to find the pieces to craft the intermediate components.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
I've already learned it, so I'm ready.
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
I think that with the ability to convert massive amounts of stored up base salvage into rare invention salvage, prices on the market should plummet for a while.
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
Since we can't assign permissions to specific containers, we have to either have all bins be free-for-all, or only allow officers to have access to them. We also are forced to have the same permissions on inspiration and enhancement bins, leaving us with no choice but to make everything be free-for-all, which results in enhancement bins being filled up with junk, and I'm sure the salvage bins will be filled with Ceramic plates and Hydraulic Pistons as well.
I don't think that's exactly what you mean by "security", but those are the issues most closely related with storage permissions for my SG. We don't get people "stealing" stuff, just people who don't read our personal forums enough to know what belongs to whom. I know this situation is no different than before, but the change means that we now have one more thing that we have storage for, but said storage doesn't work in a way that's useful for people who would like to store valuable things for themselves or specific other people who need it.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
Greatly. All three SGs for which I'm a builder will be positively affected by the changes and so be able to afford a larger base.
For two of the three, rent will go down. For the third, the rent will increase (from 0), but that's okay.
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
Definitely. However, I would be dismantling anyway in order to take advantage of the new building tools (elimination of raid pathing restrictions, intersecting objects).
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
Approximately 12 hours per base.
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
Positive: We can now afford much larger bases.
Negative: For one of the SGs, someone will have to pay upkeep occassionally when they didnt' before.
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
Long Term: Positively. (Much prettier bases.)
Short Term: Positively. (I cannot wait to re-do my bases under the new rules! Stacking is so much easier!)
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
The responsibility for getting salvage for building will fall solely in my hands. Previously, everyone donated their Base Salvage because there was nothing else to do with it (but Empowerments).
And because we can store such small amounts of Invention Salvage in the base, there's no way to actually store *usable* quantities of Invention Salvage for future use in either Base Item Crafting or Empowerment Stations.
We have several players who do use the Empowerment Stations, but because they will now use Invention Salvage instead of Base Components, they will have to rely upon personal inventory for storing salvage instead of the Salvage Racks (30 pieces is not large enough to cover every single empowerment).
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
None.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
None.
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
Empowerment Stations will be used less.
It will be much more difficult to obtain the Fabricator Badge when the "Covert to Base components" recipes are taken away.
Immediately after i13 launch, the price of Rare salvage will drop because Brainstorm Ideas converted to salvage will flood the market. Then the prices will equalize.
The donations of players who wish to donate Invention Salvage to the Base's Construction will be indistinguishable from those who wish to donate for the use of other players.
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
No direct security concerns.
Additional Notes:
I believe much of the Base Salvage problem could have been avoided if "Base Components" were kept in the system. And so all Recipes for Empowerments and Base Items could stay the same, but Base Components could be constructed out of Invention Salvage, possibly using the same recipes that are currently live.
Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
My SG will be able to use a larger plot, just from that change. Total reduction is about 3 million Prestige.
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
No. I will be dismantling to take advantage of the removal of raid pathing. The prestige is just a bonus, and is still less than what we have banked right now.
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
Removal should take 5 to 15 hours or so, there are a large number or items to delete. Rebuilding could take weeks or even months, and I'm not one of those with objects floated around my base.
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
Plot changes are great, and easy as pie to recoup the difference, plus more space to make other changes far more easily. Room cost changes for non storage are nice, but not major.
The increase in costs of decorative rooms is strange, and in one case (3x3) actually more expensive than a functional room of that size.
The big issue is, in order to gain the refund for crafted items we will need to eat the cost of crafting in invention salvage. That makes getting a refund for any later items rather frustrating. I certainly won't be trashing my Turbine to get 500K back, it isn't worth the frustration in collecting the invention salvage.
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
Quick and easy boost to plot size to take advantage of pathing changes is the main benefit in both the short and long term. The main benefits from this change are for PvP, and my SG is far too small to ever consider engaging in that, except possibly instant raids.
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
Very little right now, I precrafted the only two items I'd like to add, as neither one changed in price. In the long run, the cost of any future crafting is likely to come out of my pocket rather than the groups. All the Base Salvage we have right now could have covered all the crafting we needed (outside of special salvage) even if we wanted to enter PvP, now it is useless for that. All I can do with it is turn it into Brainstorms and pray I get what I need, and sell what I don't to buy what I do. Crafting is going to be a chore.
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
... Not a damn thing. I guess eventually I can just do away with salvage storage once we use all we have up. 30 salvage storage is fairly pointless.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
Every time I go to use it I will need to adjust. If I want to craft something, I'll need to go to my base, write down what I need, check if I have it, then go to the CH to buy it. Its just like inventions, only I don't get to carry a shopping list on my character.
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
This will put extra pressure on the CH system, with no change in invention salvage drops. (Though brainstorms may mitigate this slightly.) In the long term, crafting costs for bases will be mostly placed on the architect, rather than shared by the SG. With the high value of Invention salvage, storing any salvage in a large SG may prove to be dangerous security wise, and in any SG 30 salvage will be too little to craft from. (Ask how annoying crafting was in I6 with no storage, sometime.)
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
Thefts of Base Salvage have already occurred, as a low value and security item was suddenly given high value. We do not have the security controls to deal with high value item storage in large SGs.
Additional Notes:
Converting Brainstorms into Invention Salvage is bad, bad, bad. Do something else with Base Salvage, don't reward jerks.
Removal of raid pathing is a wonderful thing. The single best thing for bases this issue. If bases became works of art before, prepare to see wonders of the world. 
Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
The majority of mine that I'm responsible for are small SGs. It will, in general, help.
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
Possibly. Most of mine aren't all that complex, so it's more a matter of "Having more open prestige to do something nice" than "Rebuilding to get prestige."
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
As mentioned, most of mine are small. Hour each.
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
Rent, mostly. Of course, I'll be on a bigger plot, most likely, so rent would be inevitable, but the warning and scheduling needs looking at.
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
Honestly, it's more short term being able to do a bit more. Long term... hard to say.
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
Ugh. Let's see, security concerns, storage limits (30? I've got single types of event salvage that'll take more than one of those...) going from cheap base salvage to potentially expensive, in demand for more items, "willt hey steal it or not" invention salvage, the sudden loss of value of empowerment stations (since who's going to burn *invention salvage* that's needed for so much else?) The list goes on.
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
Honestly? I can't think of one. Other than having a place to share invention salvage. The old system wasn't confusing.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
Learning? Quickly. It's not hard to look at recipes.
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
Less involvement with building the base from SG members, as people transition from giving "free" salvage to the SG to having to decide between using invention salvage for their own IOs, selling rare pieces for much-desired INF or handing it to the base (and its limited storage.) Empowerment stations being even less used - *I* use them heavily, and don't see me using them as often after this. And the conversion process with what's left over? Click, click, click, clikc, click, click, click, click, click... ugh.
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
There's no security *now* and bases get raided for relatively worthless base salvage. The temptation's going to be *huge* when valuable invention salvage is in storage. Which is another thing that's goign to keep people from wanting to add theirs to the group pool.
Additional Notes:
I find it very hard to believe that there was such massive confusion between invention salvage (named as "invention salvage" when it drops, put in its own "invention salvage" tab, and listed by name in inventions) and base salvage. If there was... add the word "Base" to when base salvage dropped. It couldn't have been easier overall to do *this* than that.
Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally? I will be able to greatly expand the RP aspect of my bases.
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing? Yes.
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice? Including rebuild: Protectors = 6-10 hours; Impossible Legion = 6-10 hours; Mouseion at Alexandria = 100+ hours
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing? Mostly I'm good with it, but decorative (i.e. non-functional) rooms should be significantly less expensive than their functional equivalents.
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term? I'll be able to have richer spaces for Roleplaying.
*sidenote - RP spaces could be greatly enhanced by a greater range of decorative items. *hint hint nudge nudge*
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation? I'll convert one character per SG to an influence/invention salvage farmer and hope I can resist the temptation to pass pieces to characters building IOs.
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation? There isn't one. I'm sorry.
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system? I'm a quick learner.
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system? Increased costs of salvage on the market, less use of empowerment stations, increased costs for base building settled fully on the base builder.
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change? None as I intend to get rid of the now useless salvage racks. I have mule characters for holding event salvage and my base farmers can hold more than the bins... and take up less floor space.
Additional Notes: I would really like to know the real reason behind the change from base salvage to invention salvage for base building purposes.
Siberian Spring-50 (Cold/Rad, Rad/Ice, Ice/Rad, Sh/Ice) - KGB SS8
Chernozem-50 (Ice/MM, Emp/Ice, MA/Regen) - KGB SS8
Wila-50 (Dark/Arch) - KGB SS8
Also: Krassivy Mechtayu-50 (Ill/Rad) - KGB SS8; Ms. Hypatia-50 (Dark/Regen)