Live Feedback:Issue 12: Hollows Zone Makeover
By
DreadShinobi,
Posted on: 2008-05-20 11:53 in Developers' Corner
Nice
Reddy Kilowatt
Children of Data
2nd SG on Infinity
Earth Tech
Desert Princess
Bloody Decker
(and that is only some of the ones on Infinity)
I really liked the changes, it made Hollows a much more soloable place, which I enjoy. Thanks 
I kinda liked the old Hollows.
Well after running my newly created level 6 toon through Wincott's missions, I have to give my opinions on the new Hollows.
I like the new mix of enemy groups.
I love the "stay in same neighborhood" doors.
I think, however, that you may have overdone the spawn quantities a little bit.
There are so many small spawn groups (ie skulls sitting on the walls/ledges/etc) around that it's no longer really possible to run a "weave in and out" pattern to cross zone areas without aggroing anyone.
Now, that could have just been due to the sheer quantity of folks in the zone causing a bump up of spawn groups (does that happen?), but it was definately a lot harder to avoid aggroing groups as I travelled around.
Admittedly, with the groups being mostly smaller, it wasn't fatal (like a bad aggro in the hollows used to be), but it was annoying.
Also, less than 100 feet from Wincott, I bumped into a group of lost that included 2 boss-level Rectors!! Not fun running into spammed sleeps and holds at level 5 
Again, this may have been just due to sheer quantity though.
6000+ levels gained and 8 level 50's
Hello, my name is Soulwind and I have Alt-Itis.
[ QUOTE ]
I think, however, that you may have overdone the spawn quantities a little bit.
There are so many small spawn groups (ie skulls sitting on the walls/ledges/etc) around that it's no longer really possible to run a "weave in and out" pattern to cross zone areas without aggroing anyone.
Now, that could have just been due to the sheer quantity of folks in the zone causing a bump up of spawn groups (does that happen?), but it was definately a lot harder to avoid aggroing groups as I travelled around.
Admittedly, with the groups being mostly smaller, it wasn't fatal (like a bad aggro in the hollows used to be), but it was annoying.
Also, less than 100 feet from Wincott, I bumped into a group of lost that included 2 boss-level Rectors!! Not fun running into spammed sleeps and holds at level 5 Again, this may have been just due to sheer quantity though.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Hollows is a Hazard Zone, so the increased difficulty is deliberate. To those who perceive this as an annoyance rather than a challenge, staying in the city zones is better fit. The changes have certainly made the zone more survivable than it used to be, so "mission accomplished" in that regard.
EC
[ QUOTE ]
The Hollows is a Hazard Zone, so the increased difficulty is deliberate. To those who perceive this as an annoyance rather than a challenge, staying in the city zones is better fit. The changes have certainly made the zone more survivable than it used to be, so "mission accomplished" in that regard.
EC
[/ QUOTE ]
Have you read War Witch's information about the revamp?
The Hollows is now supposed to be a mixed zone. The areas that are partially under control are city-zone level spawns and the wilder areas are hazard-zone level spawns.
The changes were never intended to "increase difficulty", indeed the opposite is more the point. Mixed city/hazard spawn levels, moving instance doors to stay in the appropriate neighborhoods, etc
Also, I never said it was a bad thing. I was just pointing out that with the positioning of the new spawn groups there is very, very little "free space" around many of the spawns and that it felt much more crowded than I (imo) believe was intended.
On a side note persuant to my earlier post. Cherry Hills is supposed to be limited to 5-7 level spawns now, but I was definately running into 9's and 10's in the spawn groups.
(I was very near the 'border' of cherry hills so they could have actually been spawns for the other side of the border that were just moved or offset somewhat into the cherry hills area).
6000+ levels gained and 8 level 50's
Hello, my name is Soulwind and I have Alt-Itis.
I guess there is suppose to be a new villain group in the Hollow's:
Coralax
My question, do they spawn the same spawn rates as everything else or are they on a set amount?
After searching the "Red River" area, I didn't see a single one.
Thanks!
Hawk
@Hawkeyed
P.E.R.C. Senior Pinnacle Rep
[url="http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=217406&TabID=1833355"]PERC Site[/url]
"Nothing grabs your attention like a pink fluffy bunny with imps dancing around it" -Kranny
Hawk, the Coralax will ambush you if you run in the river or right at the shore. You don't see them above water unless they're ambushing someone, at least that was my experience in Red River.
And I found quite a few of them too!
"I used to make diddly squat, but I've been with the company for 16 years and have had plenty of great raises. Now I just make squat" -- Me
Pediatric brain tumors are the #1 cause of cancer related deaths in children.
I did find them!
I guess you need a DoT toggle or some power on to get them to jump out of the water like the lava dudes do also.
Either way, thats my plan this weekend.
Hawk
@Hawkeyed
P.E.R.C. Senior Pinnacle Rep
[url="http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=217406&TabID=1833355"]PERC Site[/url]
"Nothing grabs your attention like a pink fluffy bunny with imps dancing around it" -Kranny
[ QUOTE ]
I guess you need a DoT toggle or some power on to get them to jump out of the water like the lava dudes do also.
[/ QUOTE ]
Only if you're too high a level for them to aggro on you. My level 7 can get them to pop up just by getting too close.
Did a quick run through the Hollows just a little while ago, and so far I really like what I see.
Particular thumbs-up on putting "live" police in. Much, much cooler seeing the cops actually fighting the bad guys instead of just being typical NPC furniture.
I generally like the wider variety of villain types now, but I also find the ubiquity of Lost, Hellions, and Skulls kind of detracts from the personality of the Hollows. They add variety, but the variety is so evenly spread out, it's actually just created a new homogenity. I'd like to see a predominance of Trolls and Outcasts with the other villain groups a noticeable minority. Say make it twice as likely a specific spawn point will produce a group of Trolls or Outcasts as opposed to a group of Hellions, Skulls, or Lost? (So if you were generating a random number like rolling a die, 1=Hellions, 2=Skulls, 3=Lost, 4-5=Trolls, 6-7=Outcasts.)
this is about where I stand on the Hollows now. The missions closer, not needing to traverse to deadly areas is a plus as well.
But please, please make it a warground of the Trolls and Outcasts again. The other groups take away the feel. I also preferred the larger groups, much, much more of a challenge.
-------------
Dwarf Star; Angel-Night, Adoniel, angel of the 12th hour of the night; among the many
Freedom Factor
and now from Warhammer Online, Gorlok, Greenskin shaman
-------------
<QR>
While I do like the added villain groups to the hollows, I also feel that those groups are over done a bit in Cherry Hills.
What I mean is, take Wincott's first two missions for instance, now instead of finding Trolls when I'm looking for Outcasts, or vice-versa, I'm finding everything but Outcasts and Trolls. I've had, in some cases, to go almost to Flux just to find some Outcasts or Trolls for those hunts. It's nice to see Hellions, Lost, and Skulls in the Hollows now, but there's just a little too much of them.
Otherwise, I've got no real complaints about the revamp so far.
Thank you for the time...
@Travlr (Main) / @Tymers Realm (Test) 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess you need a DoT toggle or some power on to get them to jump out of the water like the lava dudes do also.
[/ QUOTE ]
Only if you're too high a level for them to aggro on you. My level 7 can get them to pop up just by getting too close.
[/ QUOTE ]
My Blaster used Voltaic Sentinel to flush them out. It was almost like fishing. (I guess I was trolling in a manner not usual with the internet. )
As for finding the correct groups on hunt missions, I think they've just shifted enough that we're not familiar with their new stomping grounds. They are definitely out there...we just need to relearn where they come out...and honestly, I kinda like that...it's not just beating up the first ten people you come across. Maybe it was because I was gawking at the changes, but I sort of enjoyed the hunts for once.
[ QUOTE ]
<QR>
While I do like the added villain groups to the hollows, I also feel that those groups are over done a bit in Cherry Hills.
What I mean is, take Wincott's first two missions for instance, now instead of finding Trolls when I'm looking for Outcasts, or vice-versa, I'm finding everything but Outcasts and Trolls. I've had, in some cases, to go almost to Flux just to find some Outcasts or Trolls for those hunts. It's nice to see Hellions, Lost, and Skulls in the Hollows now, but there's just a little too much of them.
Otherwise, I've got no real complaints about the revamp so far.
Thank you for the time...
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. A bit more variety of bad guys is great. Struggling to find outcasts in the hollows is bad.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
Just got a newly rolled tank into Hollows. saw a troll named Suspect, walked by, and the police said "he's escaping! help us, hero!"
I two-shotted him. that was awesome. and the stranded women who have the trick or treat scenario. prize... or not!
I like it; criminals and cops alike adapting to a city rampant with super heroes.
We still need a way to adjust difficulty here. What a pain in the rear to run all the way back to atlas just to up the difficulty.
I'm a 45 month Veteran-
I have to give the new Hollows a thumbs down. Mishes close together? The second mish i got was across the map vs. CoT.
YEA Circle of Thorns the group EVERY SINGLE PLAYER I KNOW IN THE GAME HATES - do a poll!!! YAY lets give the players more CoT!!! YAY!! CoT are SO much fun at low levels!!!
I had a team of 7 set on Heroic and was wiped by spammed holds and 2 shot deaths. So we all Hospitaled and ran across the map AGAIN only to be wiped AGAIN - not fun - I HATE the new Hollows I won't be back.
/e BOO HISS 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm a 45 month Veteran-
I have to give the new Hollows a thumbs down. Mishes close together? The second mish i got was across the map vs. CoT.
YEA Circle of Thorns the group EVERY SINGLE PLAYER I KNOW IN THE GAME HATES - do a poll!!! YAY lets give the players more CoT!!! YAY!! CoT are SO much fun at low levels!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
You do realize that they didn't change any of the missions (aside from door locations), right? Aside from the random missions you can pick up from Meg - who's entirely optional.
Actually, now that I think of it I've never gotten a CoT mission from Meg. And the ONLY CoT mission you get from the normal arcs is from Talshak - the last mission from the last contact. And I think that's been at the same door for forever. So... you're complaining about a three and a half year old mission that wasn't touched in I12. Good work.
The changes are ok, but I have to agree that finding Outcasts and Trolls is now pain in the butt.
I rolled a Katana/Willpower Scrapper just to check out the new Hollows.
I really like the changes. The Hollows is still a challenge, but it's also less frustrating and more fun!
Now if the game would quit crashing on me well... that'd really rock!
Melissa, I want you to bear my children! LOL... LOVE the changes, they are nicely done and made it much less of a pain! I rolled a new character and got to the Hollows, having not realized that they had been reworked. The spawn changes were significant enough that I noticed the changes without having to be told about them. Of course, the addition of Meg and Flux getting brave enough to move out of the alley kinda clued me in too. 
I shall echo the "i like what was done"....
But i will also echo.... Make Trolls/Outcasts the predominant villians (and CoT in the wildneress)
One bug there - Meg gives a mission to hunt Vahzilok in the Hollows - we spent several game nights searching, and have yet to encounter one single Vahzilok in the entire zone.
A no attack "Group-Friendly" Defender is like a "Team Friendly" basketball player who won't dribble, run, or shoot, under any circumstances. "I'm a PASSER."
[ QUOTE ]
Hollows Zone "Gameplay Makeover"
Significant changes have been made to the Hollows zone to make it more fun! NPC encounters have been rebalanced, including new spawns, new villain groups, mission door improvements, and a mobile hospital has been added to the entrance of the zone. Additionally, Meg Mason, a new contact, has been added to give out repeatable missions.
[/ QUOTE ]
War Witch, the Level Designer who's doing the Hollows Gameplay Makeover, wanted me to point out that the changes are to address spawns and that there are no significant art changes (like moving buildings, etc.) being done with the changes.
Melissa "War Witch" Bianco gives us more details to the zone re-vamp in this Developer Diary:
Giving the Hollows Zone a Makeover!
Please use this thread to discuss the live version of the Hollow's re-vamp!