Discussion: Full Powerset Proliferation Revealed
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2008-03-28 11:16 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Regarding Grandville: The lag generated there appears to be machine related, not particularly connection related (within reason). For example, I am on a very slow DSL connection, but experience no lag within the zone. A SG mate with a much faster connection but lower end machine is constantly having problems there. There have been some rather exhaustive discussions by people who have performed some rather in depth graphical analysis in the tech forums, but those may have been cleaned in the last purge.
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Grandville lag has a well-known solution.
More computer memory.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
All the proliferation is fine and good but being that no Primaries are being ported over for MMs... PLZ fix the MM Thugs primary; either give their Tier 1 an attack that actually does -DEF or remove the -DEF slotting for them
sounds like a minor bug long overdue for a minor tweak
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
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They made a huge mistake talking about this before announcing the list.
It gave people all kinds of time to get worked up both for disappointment and envy.
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You can't seriously expect them to tell you that. MMO Game developers never give exact times (unless they are idiots), because they don't have control of funding, manpower, deadlines, QA, etc. The publisher can't tell you that either because something that might be done might get blocked by either lack of resources or manpower, or QA might find a horrible bug that wipes out the database and that would push back any release.
If NCNC could tell you exactly when a powerset would be ported, I would think the team would instead use that ability to win some super lottery instead and leave.
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Exactly what, they most CERTIANLY can do that. As to "exactly' when, they can do that too just you thought of it the wrong way i was thinking. Just like issue 12. Maybe not the exact date, but we know the exact order in which they will be coming and roughly the time (ie next patch to come ie issue 12, and roughly 1.5 months or so.)
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Give me a break, "Forced"? Someone goes to your house and breaks your leg (or worse) just because you didn't make a certain combo? If they had the manpower for that, they would have more powersets ready.
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There are many different ways of being forced. No someone isnt actually coming to my house and breaking my legs. But nonetheless, the options that are set now as opposed to later force you to make decision and give limited pathways on which to choose that would be different otherwise if we knew the whole picture.
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
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Forge is the same as fortitude -defense (which got spread out as the shields) And yes, you can boost forge with powerboost (to hit) perhaps you should rethink before you post.
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No, you can't, not until i12 and then only as a Controller.
Corruptors don't GET Power Boost.
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The discussion was on thermal being ported to trollers... *sigh* Yes so they can get powerboost. Not until issue 12, its a guaranteed, so we cant play it yet doesnt mean it "doesnt exist" though.
Or just maybe perhaps in that same post you mentioned how fortitude can be buffed with powerboost, which corrupters dont even get. The discussion was between emps, and thermal for CONTROLLERS. *sigh*
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
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Actually, none of the power sets being discussed are all that mind blowing.
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mind blowing? thermal and cold for heroes is not? Thermal and cold domination are not mind blowing? PBU and cold domination = -dmg cap pretty much will take out any EB (pve) or AT (in pvp) out of the fight.
What kinda get me mad is the article how they keep describing how MMs cant get kin or how cold armor is not possible for brutes. Kinda adding fuel to the fire.
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If you didnt catch it Wavicle is correct, power build up does NOT affect -damage debuffs.
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
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As the the patron's, if they add APP's, or change or tweak anything even a single power they would have to grant a one-time patron respec to everyone that has done it.
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They don't need to change the Patron Power Pools at all. What they need to do is just give the Ancillary Power Pools that heroes have as is (barring and FX/Coloring changes) to the Villain ATs that they make sense for. Then as a player you can then choose wether to use either your Patron Pool or one of the Ancillery Pools. This would Eliminate the need to make Patron Pools Respecable. While makeing many Villain PvP Players happy.
Then at a later date add 4 Patrons for Heroes along with thier corresponding powers.
I would be fine with this solution. Hopefully when Castle gets his new power guys up to speed. He has a chance to look at this issue.
~MR
AE Arc: 305214 Blood Diamonds (Villainous)
Unleashed/Unchained/B.O.S.S.
<------------ Love it...
Been waiting all this time to make a fire/thermal controller woo hoo! They'll go great with a fire/kin on a BM farm.
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This paying customer is truly depressed and let-down...way to make heroes the focus of this game...you better make I13 about villains and villains only
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Or what? You're going to take your ball and go home?
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Word of advice devs...hire a seperate team for villains...if you truly think that this is a seperate game, heroes shouldnt develop for villains...
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Why because some 14yo little twit with no concept thinks he's entitled or owed something.
Word of advice kid, learn to use proper tone. Devs don't owe you a damned thing. You're here by choice. Deal.
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Well, to be fair, since we are paying for the game on a continuous, monthly basis, the Devs do owe us something, since we supply their salaries. Maybe not pandering to our slightest whims, but I feel they need to be held responsible to what the player/customer base wants to some extent. Granted it still comes down to talking with your money and if you are unhappy, you can take your money elsewhere. But to say the devs don't owe us a damed thing? That is a bit of an exaggeration.
I think having a separate team for Villains sounds like a decent idea. Sure the posters tone was bad, but still...
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
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As the the patron's, if they add APP's, or change or tweak anything even a single power they would have to grant a one-time patron respec to everyone that has done it.
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They don't need to change the Patron Power Pools at all. What they need to do is just give the Ancillary Power Pools that heroes have as is (barring and FX/Coloring changes) to the Villain ATs that they make sense for. Then as a player you can then choose wether to use either your Patron Pool or one of the Ancillery Pools. This would Eliminate the need to make Patron Pools Respecable. While makeing many Villain PvP Players happy.
Then at a later date add 4 Patrons for Heroes along with thier corresponding powers.
I would be fine with this solution. Hopefully when Castle gets his new power guys up to speed. He has a chance to look at this issue.
~MR
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Somehow I don't think the Devs are going to make the Patron Pools optional. However, you could open up the Patron Pools and turn each one into something matching the Hero Epic Pools. For example, say you are a MM and choose Ghost Widow as your Patron. Instead of just getting stuck with the default choices, you get 3-4 MM/Ghost Widow pools to choose from, similar to how the Epics work. I realize this would involve 4 times the work as having regular Epics, since you need 3-4 Patron Epic Pools for each of the 4 Patrons.
If they follow your idea (which would be a lot easier than my idea), then it might be nice to have Hero Patrons. That would be something to look forward to.
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
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Ya know each AT has it's own section in these forums. Would it of been such a bad idea to put a sticky poll in each one to see what people wanted? Can we do that now to decide what the next round of shared powers will be?
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There's the rub. No matter what the players want, it comes down to what resources the developers can muster to port and balance the sets in a timely fashion.
I can't see it being effective for the players either, as someone might not want something that another player wants.
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It's simple majority rules man. Of course you can't please everyone, but you can aim to plz the most players possible. I garantee a simple poll would have clearly shown that Dark/Dark was not what the majority would have chose for tanks....or elec/elec for stalkers and so on.
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Somehow I don't think the Devs are going to make the Patron Pools optional.
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I already view them as Optional. I don't have to take a PPP if I don't want to.
Shrugs.
As much as I like the PPP that I have for my Ice/Ice Dom (Mako), I would prefer an Ice themed APP.
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If they follow your idea (which would be a lot easier than my idea), then it might be nice to have Hero Patrons. That would be something to look forward to.
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I agree. I might not choose to use those PPPs, but I would like the option, and of course the story that would get added.
I wouldn't mind the Idea you presented either. The reason I put forth what I did was because it could accomplish whats being asked for for potentially the least work.
~MR
AE Arc: 305214 Blood Diamonds (Villainous)
Unleashed/Unchained/B.O.S.S.
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Ya know each AT has it's own section in these forums. Would it of been such a bad idea to put a sticky poll in each one to see what people wanted? Can we do that now to decide what the next round of shared powers will be?
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There's the rub. No matter what the players want, it comes down to what resources the developers can muster to port and balance the sets in a timely fashion.
I can't see it being effective for the players either, as someone might not want something that another player wants.
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It's simple majority rules man. Of course you can't please everyone, but you can aim to plz the most players possible. I garantee a simple poll would have clearly shown that Dark/Dark was not what the majority would have chose for tanks....or elec/elec for stalkers and so on.
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Case in point. I would have prefered Elec/Elec Tank and an Ice/Ice Stalker. Both sets I am going to play when they finally get Proliferated.
The difference is that I am willing to wait. I was a bit disappointed but not terribly so.
~MR
AE Arc: 305214 Blood Diamonds (Villainous)
Unleashed/Unchained/B.O.S.S.
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You can't seriously expect them to tell you that. MMO Game developers never give exact times (unless they are idiots), because they don't have control of funding, manpower, deadlines, QA, etc. The publisher can't tell you that either because something that might be done might get blocked by either lack of resources or manpower, or QA might find a horrible bug that wipes out the database and that would push back any release.
If NCNC could tell you exactly when a powerset would be ported, I would think the team would instead use that ability to win some super lottery instead and leave.
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Exactly what, they most CERTIANLY can do that. As to "exactly' when, they can do that too just you thought of it the wrong way i was thinking. Just like issue 12. Maybe not the exact date, but we know the exact order in which they will be coming and roughly the time (ie next patch to come ie issue 12, and roughly 1.5 months or so.)
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Come on, you been around long enough to remember the Skill System fiasco. The one that was going to add skills to the characters. The one that got scrapped, left in a dank well for a while and remade into the IO system.
I repeat: NCNC will not tell you or anyone else what is going in until it is a sure thing it will be in the game. Even then anything they announce has a slight chance of being pulled at the last minute, which will have a bunch of people with their underwear in knots upset that "they promised". I know that I wouldn't open myself up to that, so I don't expect NCNC to do so either.
As to what sets they are porting for Issue 12, well we know them, don't we? We will not know what they will port over in Issue 13, because that is too far out to make any promises.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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It's simple majority rules man. Of course you can't please everyone, but you can aim to plz the most players possible. I garantee a simple poll would have clearly shown that Dark/Dark was not what the majority would have chose for tanks....or elec/elec for stalkers and so on.
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You seem to forget that this isn't a democracy (just like any business). The final choice was and is only theirs. Your choice, and others, is will you subscribe or will you find something that you find more entertaining.
They might be still working on balance issues for elec/elec tanks for all we know. For instance maybe something in gauntlet stopped them from including elec/elec.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Dominators get Earth as a new primary. Huh... ok. Pretty sure everybody wanted Illusion though. I'll come back to Illusion in a while. As a thematic fit to Earth, they also get... Electric Manipulation!? Hopefully not just a straight port of the blaster secondary, please!
Rating: 2/5
MasterMinds don't get a new primary as there was none to port over. This is fair enough but I hope you'll be working on one for I13 because MasterMinds will otherwise have the fewest choices of primary. For their secondary they get... Storm!? Firstly that's already being ported over for Corruptors. Secondly it's a notoriously chaotic set unless handled expertly. Storm MasterMinds are not going to be sought out for teams, that's for sure. You have a problem with porting sets to MMs because they can easily become overpowered so I'm not surprised to see that Kin or Rad weren't given to them, but Sonics seemed like a nice choice.
Empathy should really have gone to the MMs to provide access to its particular talents for villains, and the set clearly matches up with the concerns of a MasterMind without being too powerful (Name too heroic? Change it. Fortitude too much? Tweak the recharge, as has been done with many MM secondaries).
Rating: 2/5
Brutes get two new primaries, both of which are extremely similar. Nothing much to say about them, good call devs, please add Broadsword and Spines or Claws next. For their armour they receive... SR!? Why go the effort of porting over a set that's middling to bottom? Everyone wanted Ice! You're the ones with the spreadsheets, there's nothing to say Ice *had* to inflict slows and recharges. Just ditch -recharge and slow and switch it for more -dmg, -tohit, -def or -res. There's nothing to say you couldn't.
Rating: 2/5
Scrappers get Firey Melee. Awesome! Hopefully in the next rounds of proliferation they'll get more of the elemental/non weapon sets. Firey Armour is their second, and is a great fit for a scrapper - better than for a tank, in my personal opinion.
Rating: 5/5
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Actually, for Doms, I really wanted to see Trick Arrow/Archery. Only archers redside seem to be ninja MMs, unless I'm just not scrolling down far enough on corruptors...
What I'd really like to see for MMs wouldn't so much be a new primary as splitting the existing primary into two separate sets, allowing an MM to mix things up a bit. I really like dual pistols, they're wonderful thematically, but I'm just not very fond of the thugs I have to take along with them to maintain viable combat ability. I'd much rather use Ninjas on one character, soldiers on another, and robots for some. (Nah, I don't care for zombies much either... cool concept, but just doesn't quite do it for me execution wise... Wish I could summon a horde of Night of the Living Dead style zombies though, just kinda wandering along taking a bite out of people now and then). Anyway, If there was a way to split the primary into summoning sets and attack sets for MMs, it would also be alot easier to add new sets, because you wouldn't have to come up with new pets just to adda new weapon set, or vice versa.
I like that brutes get axes and maces now, it's nice to get access to the weapon customization. I'd still really like to see Brutes (and Tanks) get access to Broadsword, Katana, Claws, & Spines too though.
I like the fire on scrappers. That's pretty cool. I wish there were more fire sword powers though, and that we could use weapon customization on the fire and ice swords... Would also like to see an electric sword. I like the electric melee set ok, but I'd much rather be swinging something that looked like a lightsaber made out of lightning bolts...
Dear NCsoft, if you go through with this shutdown you've guaranteed you'll not see another dime from me on any project you put out, ever.
http://xx-starhammer-xx.deviantart.com/
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They made a huge mistake talking about this before announcing the list.
It gave people all kinds of time to get worked up both for disappointment and envy.
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I think the bigger mistake was telling us the official list weeks before anyone can beta test it. The less time you give someone to make a biased opinion about something before they get their hands on it, the purer the results from testing will be. A big chunk of players who make it into closed beta will already have a negative opinion of certain sets being on certain ATs, and what they test and report will reflect that. I hope they wait till the last minute to fill us in on the VEAT powers, so those get some unbiased attention.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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<------------ Love it...
Been waiting all this time to make a fire/thermal controller woo hoo! They'll go great with a fire/kin on a BM farm.
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Ya. That is just an example of what people are are furious about. It's great that you'll be able to *Forge* your Imps and shield them yet MM's sure won't get Fortitude. Neither will Dom's.
Here's an idea for the devs...
All the stuff everyone's whining about? Give it to them. Even if it's broken. Then maybe they'll understand what your reasoning behind it was.
But, then again, that'll flood the boards with things such as "ZOMG fix my ice brute's broken fury bar!" and "ZOMG kin MMs are just SICK in PvP!" ... and let's not forget the "ZOMG Ill/ doms can't build domination on 4 powers alone!"
Sorry, peeps...that was my random rant for being sick and tired of reading 67 pages of (more or less) complaining.
On a different, more on topic, note - I'm excited to see how these new sets will play out. I'm very curious to see what the Stalker Elec Assassin Strike will be like, and also very curious as to how the new Mental Manipulation for blasters will be handled. And fire scrappers? While I'm skeptical on them, I'm also very anxious to roll one up and see how they work. I'll also prolly roll up an elec dom...heck, anything with a new elec I'll prolly check into, since I'm rather biased towards it anyway. 
All in all, I think this is a good start. Especially if more powerset porting is on the way.
And now that I've put in my .02, I'll go back into lurking. :P
MA Arcs:
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"Bloodlines: Part 2" - 176139
Feedback & Rating Trades Welcome!
Despite offsets that seem "not" right, I think a lot of people are excited. Unfortunately, I can't help but see a lot points being made. The good thing is that this isn't the only "swap" of powers that will be made and that makes all of this easier to swallow. I really think that this stuff comes out at the end of the week so that all of our complaints, opinions, and rants can be looked at and new perspectives on the part of the development team can be revealved. I pray they just don't take offense to the harshness that is exhibited here. After all, most everyone is here because we love game. That's a good thing!
A lot of people are rabid over most of these sets apparently... but I like most of the sets ported.
I LOVE Super Reflexes... I love Brutes. Combine the two along with Battle Axe I can finally make my Axe Murderer *Insert ICP theme here*.
I Was REALLY hoping for Thermal to make it to Defenders... But I was expecting Cold and am happy with this too. It seems just... cool. Though I might also make a Dark/Ice Blast Defender to Power Boost and toss my Three Holds off rapid fire while I have Hasten going. XD
I can't get into controllers... So bugger them for getting my Defender Powerset of choice! Because of this though... I MIGHT try to make a controller again just to get my thermal... Then I stop... think, look at curroptors, flag off controllers and go to the red side! Blast > Control IMO.
Dark for Tanks... Err... This is the only thing I really see bad choice. I know some tanks, but most of the tank player friend(Not the ones I get in random PuG, but most of them too) don't like that idea at all.
I, Personally, beleive all this is win... And I also remember several thousand villains in PvP, when I used to play, complain, "They only win because of those damn stormies! I never heard any PvPer complain about an empath, because they'd kill them instantly, then the storm would slow the melee, KB the ones without acrobatics, and generally cause chaos... Now Heroes can feel the pain, too!
In my opinion, most of this was a good call.
With love,
Me! <3
My Characters
Story Arcs Looking for Feedback:
Serving Vengeance:#419748 (For Villains/Vigilantes) (Drama/Mystery) (Viable Within Canon)
Dark Moon Rising: #13170 (For Heroes/Vigilantes) (Horror/Mystery) (Non-Canon)
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It's simple majority rules man. Of course you can't please everyone, but you can aim to plz the most players possible. I garantee a simple poll would have clearly shown that Dark/Dark was not what the majority would have chose for tanks....or elec/elec for stalkers and so on.
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You seem to forget that this isn't a democracy (just like any business). The final choice was and is only theirs.
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Exactly.
Can anyone say, "Moon Zone?" I knew you could. 
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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IMO, the villain side of this game (which seemed to have the greatest potential) has been nearly completely abandoned. With good reason: it hails back to the old, 80s style of linear, compulsory gameplay (which Turbine is famous for).
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You did this to yourself. You joined an SG with such rigid rules that you were forced to do the patron arc. If you didn't want to do the arc, don't do it and then complain about it.
If you are talking about lower level things then I think you played a different game. You can certainly choose contacts, and there are enough contacts/arcs once you get past the initial two that you can focus on areas of the story that interest you (if you check with paragonwiki/dreadtomax in advance).
I deleted my mastermind at level 21 and rerolled with a different secondary. I couldn't be bothered doing any early arcs, so I just swept the streets until 16 - the choice is there, you just ignore it.
There is more linearity hero-side. Look at your sole high level contacts and their arcs in PI. There certainly aren't any patron arcs or unlockable contacts to break up the flow there.
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This paying customer is truly depressed and let-down...way to make heroes the focus of this game...you better make I13 about villains and villains only
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Or what? You're going to take your ball and go home?
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Word of advice devs...hire a seperate team for villains...if you truly think that this is a seperate game, heroes shouldnt develop for villains...
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Why because some 14yo little twit with no concept thinks he's entitled or owed something.
Word of advice kid, learn to use proper tone. Devs don't owe you a damned thing. You're here by choice. Deal.
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Well, to be fair, since we are paying for the game on a continuous, monthly basis, the Devs do owe us something, since we supply their salaries. Maybe not pandering to our slightest whims, but I feel they need to be held responsible to what the player/customer base wants to some extent. Granted it still comes down to talking with your money and if you are unhappy, you can take your money elsewhere. But to say the devs don't owe us a damed thing? That is a bit of an exaggeration.
I think having a separate team for Villains sounds like a decent idea. Sure the posters tone was bad, but still...
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The problem with this is the assumption that noone playing villains wanted the powersets offered.
The weapon sets for Brutes have been asked for pretty much since CoV launched. I personally think SR will be fun to try with a Brute. More examples could be given.
And while only one of my personal 'i really hope they transfer that' powers made it, I know several people who are happy about several of the other powers that are being decried as unacceptable on these boards.
Co-Founder: Hand of Justice, Champion Server
Currently published arcs:
1) Azuria's Difficulties (arc: 55639) - Ver 1.2
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Actually, none of the power sets being discussed are all that mind blowing.
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mind blowing? thermal and cold for heroes is not? Thermal and cold domination are not mind blowing? PBU and cold domination = -dmg cap pretty much will take out any EB (pve) or AT (in pvp) out of the fight.
What kinda get me mad is the article how they keep describing how MMs cant get kin or how cold armor is not possible for brutes. Kinda adding fuel to the fire.
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I keep seeing people say that PBU will be too much with cold and the -damage in almost every thread the past few days. PBU doesnt affect -damage.