Discussion: Full Powerset Proliferation Revealed
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2008-03-28 11:16 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
I hope one day Scrappers get more Epic Power Pools, like Pyre Mastery so that I can make a Fire/Fire/Fire Scrapper.
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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This is fun! I want to hear more whining like this. Whos with me?
NEXT PROLIFERATION REVEALED:
Heroes
Blasters: Radiation Blast, Dark Blast + Radiation Melee, Dark Melee, Traps
Controllers: Electric Control, Water Control, Sandstorm Control + Poison, Thermal Radiation
Defenders: Cold Healing + Fire Blast, Assault Rifle, Laser Beam Rifle
Scrappers: Street Fighting, Knife Fighting, Super Strength + Shield Defense
Tankers: Shield Defense, Electric Armor, Energy Aura + Electric Melee
Villains
Brutes: Pillow Armor + Sock Puppet Melee
Corruptors: Fingers Shaped Like A Gun Pretending To Blast + Trick Arrow
Dominators: Paper Clip Domination + Origami Assault (now with Paper Airplane blast!)
Masterminds: Citizen Mastermind (3 harlots, 2 cops, and 1 doctor, all of whom run away from danger when summoned) + Managed HMO Healing (10K influence co-pay per heal, power takes 30 minutes to activate, 3 day recharge, by appointment only, some injuries not covered)
Stalkers: Pie Assault, Food Fight Melee + Armour Hot Dog
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OMG this sucks. Brutes get the shaft again!!! They need pillow fighting to go with the pillow armor. But then again that would be overpowered. Sock puppets are probably the better way to go.
For all the whiners:
Technically, the devs didn't HAVE to give us anything. To either side. Heck, I12 was supposedly going to be a SMALL expansion. And this is admittedly only the FIRST WAVE!
Y'all are so busy with the [censored] and moan routine, you haven't even thought about the fact that a year ago, none of this would have happened. Now we are getting tons of new things that devs once said wouldn't balance out or just weren't possible.
So all you whiney [censored], get off your [censored], stop giving the gift horse that dental exam and be happy that things are finally starting to happen!
[censored]!
=^..^=. o O (Nothing to see. Just a cat.)
(_ _)~
*Recipient of a Sentai Sage thumbs up of approval.
..v
(==)b
I figured I'd answer this part first.
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Tell me: why couldn't we have Archery/Archery for blasters, instead? I already know the reason, but I'm just wondering what everyone else thinks. Thematically, Archers are blasters, not Defenders---look at history and comicbooks.
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Ummm. Blasters do have Archery. They have had it since Archery and Trick Arrow came out in Issue 5 (or was it 6?). They don't have Trick Arrow, which I don't think is out of line for them even if it is a little more Defender-y than most Blaster Secondaries other than Devices.
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I can't possibly imagine a more boring, frustrating experience in online entertainment---even including EQ1. As a 'concept/character' type player, I found at every point in my progression, all such choices irrevocably, forcibly taken out of my hands---culminating in the outrage of 'patron powers'.
These 'powers' have got to be the worst designed and conceived abilities in the game. A complete waste of time and effort to 'achieve'. I've got 2 stored up respecs; and, while I cannot undo my irrevocable compulsion, I can certainly go back to ignoring them at the first opportunity (directly after this post, in fact).
<snip>
So, enter in PP. Nothing new. More linear, compulsory gameplay over the same endlessly repeated ravaged city-scapes: static, contained, constrained and micro-managed play. Yes, yes, I know Blasters get Psi/Psi---big deal. The Min/Maxers out there are either laughing their powergaming heads off or screaming in outrage. Who really cares?
<moved to top>
Basically, all boiled-down, in my mind, this new system pushes this game even further away from the comicbook superhero/villain genre. No longer is the game about playing the concept of a hero or villain: it's about balancing spread-sheets and shuddering in horror about all the work it's going to take to add anything really new and imaginative.
<snip>.
Cal2
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They never said they have stopped working on new Powersets. Shields are coming for all melee ATs. At least one new Dominator set is being worked on.
Deny it all you want, it doesn't make it false. The Devs ARE giving us what we want. Ever since Villains came out, People on both side of the law have been asking for powersets found on the other side. The Devs are finally making this happen, albeit slowly. The most logical reason to do these ports slowly is so that each set can be properly tweaked before it is given to an AT that did not have access to it before. Just because the powerset you wanted or expected didn't make it in this round is no reason to think you will never get it. There are powers that I wanted to get that didn't come down, you don't see me getting mad about it. I'm a naturally patient person. Obviously, the mileage varies for quite a few posters who are upset that they didn't get what they wanted..
Is the fact that these sets aren't "new" what makes you feel "constrained and micro-managed?" Given that Powerset Proliferation was ALWAYS advertised as giving all ATs access to some already existent powersets that they didn't have before, where did you get the impression that they would be fresh, new content? We've been saying since Villains was released, "Villains in the comics have electric blast powers, look at Electro. Why can't we have it?" Now, we get it, and people complain about it. It doesn't seem like the game is denying or pushing away the comic book genre, it looks like we are turning up our noses at it.
One thing I hope happens, sooner rather than later, is that Villains get access to the APPs. The PPPs are a neat idea, but in practice, they are purely roleplay. The APPs, in general, are stronger and have more utility. I'd like to see it in Issue 12.5, but if not that soon, the APPs definately need to make it into the next round of Powerset Proliferation.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
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No, I'm telling you what IS going to happen. I have experience with all the powersets being ported over, the sets are not miraculously all of a sudden going to change in how they work application wise.
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So do I, but I don't claim to know what is going to happen. I mostly gave up trying to anticipate what the developers are thinking after the Controller nerf of Issue 8. Even then the writing was on the wall that powers were going to be shared with both sides.
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I've played the powersets already with the exception of the psi blaster secondary nobody really knows about yet. You act as if all the ports are some brand spanking new powersets we're getting. News flash: They're not.
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No, but the developers have already said that they will be balanced. They are alpha testing now. Closed beta is a few weeks away. Then further testing will occur in open beta. It is a bit premature to cry doom for another month or so, at a guess.
In my mind that would be "kept to the same base level with AT tweaks" followed by nerfs or buffs as needed. This is standard operating procedure with NCNC, and game developers in general. Yet you are acting like they came to your house and personally roughed you up. Give me a break. If you don't like the game that much you can always quit (and should if you don't enjoy it).
If a power is overwhelming, it will be nerfed. If it is underperforming it will be buffed. None of that will satisfy people who like think that CoV should be the equal in every single aspect to CoH. It will never get to that level, simply because of the percentage of people playing just CoV versus those playing CoH and those (like myself) who enjoy playing both.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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This paying customer is truly depressed and let-down...way to make heroes the focus of this game...you better make I13 about villains and villains only
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Or what? You're going to take your ball and go home?
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Word of advice devs...hire a seperate team for villains...if you truly think that this is a seperate game, heroes shouldnt develop for villains...
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Why because some 14yo little twit with no concept thinks he's entitled or owed something.
Word of advice kid, learn to use proper tone. Devs don't owe you a damned thing. You're here by choice. Deal.
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If I didn't have a reason to close both of my accounts an quit this game I do now. Talk about the villians. If we weren't under powered before, we definately are now. Have any of the Dev's ever read a comic. Villians are equally as powerful as hero's, just opposite weaknesses. I can't believe we got screwed again. Are they biased or am I insane?
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Dude, shut up and leave if you're going to leave and spare us the cry-fest.
Can I have your stuff?
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Wow...I just noticed my earlier post was erased. I didn't even say anything inapropriate. Let me try again...
Heroes did pretty good IMO. I think the vast majority wanted elec/elec, and hardly anyone wanted dark anything. I also think the vast majority wanted SuperStrength for scrappers, but fire/fire isn't to bad either.
As far as villains go, we got crap IMO. Out of 5 possible weapon sets brutes could have gotten, we get the two slowest and IMO lamest. To top it off we get SR which will completely suck for brutes unless it gets some kinda quick recovery added in.
That's just the beginning though. Storm for Corruptors is disappointing....storm for MM is a freaking joke. I was thinking Wow! if MMs get rad or thermal I will actually like having them on my team....instead they get the most annoying knockback/whitout set ever. To top the whole thing off stalkers get elec/elec. R U [censored] serious? It's almost like they just gave it to stalkers to rub it in tanks face.
How can the Devs be so out of touch with the player base not to realize this was gonna suck? I know this is suppose to just be the beginning and more powers will be shared, but seriously, we coulda done better than this.
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I'll say it again... THIS IS JUST THE START. Cripes all you damned babies act like these are the only powers that are going to be moved around. You didn't get what you want so instead of posting constructive feedback you come in here whining and threatening and dissing the devs.
I hope Castle or BaB's comes in here, tell you all to screw and as a lesson they're pulling the rest of the proliferation since you don't know how to be patient and control yourselves.
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Villains as a whole, get 9 'new' sets that villains can use. Storm can be used by 2 different AT's, but it's still one powerset ported to villains. Judging by your logic, if we add a powerpool set available (with 4 powers like all other pool powersets) to all AT's, we would be getting 44 new available powers. Sorry, but most people don't see it that way.
I highly doubt the blasters will be getting a port from the dominator psi assault set, it wouldn't make sense. Mental blast, psi scream, subdue, psi lance in a secondary? right, lol. It's not going to be a direct port from psi assault, no way considering some of the power choices will be redundant with psi blast.
lol if you think i don't know what I'm talking about. We can meet in the arena anytime buddy, care to test your game knowledge and experience in a 10 minute match?
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I can't sway you with intelligent counter argument so let me beat you up.
You lose right there buddy.
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If you like certain powersets being ported over, more power to you. however i'm looking at what all AT's get, that's what pvpers do. Large part of being proficient in the arena or zone for that matter is being aware of the capabilities/holes of every powerset/AT you may run into.
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Hey you want to take part in what amount to the afterbirth of this game, deal with the mess. They could shut off PvP right now and the game would survive.
I know it sucks dude to hear this but the truth is PvP is such an afterthought/aside you PvP folk have to get used to that PvE will ALWAYS come first. Sometimes that's going to further shake up the PvP world.
PvP gets you nothing except satisfaction. PvE is where the progression is at and where most players spend their time.
You can't say you'd spend your money developing for 10% of your customer base (just throwing a number out there) at the sake of 90% of them. Bad business.
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With that said, BaB stated that the first powersets being ported over were going to be the ones capable of being directly ported, meaning that psi blast is 99% chance going to be identical to the defender version. All signs are pointing toward a direct port, so I don't believe anyone is jumping the gun. PvPers are stating what WILL happen if you give the set to blasters who enjoy their damage mod + build up + boost range. Good luck finding anything in pvp zones other than stealth capped stalkers, because I don't think most players will enjoy getting 2-3 shotted by emp'd psi blasters. While the 'serious pvpers' aren't the biggest group in the game, there are a lot of casual pvpers who frequent the zones and this potentially hurts them.
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Oh so it'll be hero's turn to shine in PvP for once since Stalkers have the highest kill numbers. And again... this isn't about PvP. I know to YOU it is... but there's a whole nother game out there besides PvP.
You guys will be the first to criticize someone for whining about stalkers. Tell them to lern2play etc. Well, lern2play. Adapt. Or, roll a psi blaster.
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About your friend, well that's understandable, but we differ in our philosophies. My ingame friends I'm sure can handle themselves on an internet forum, most of them have heard much worse from the anti-PvP / anti-Freedom crowd.
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And some of us stick up for our friends.
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First of all, don't speak to him like that. Second of all, does that make you feel like a big boy talking to him like that and calling him a fan-boy? Does that win your argument? Know what babies (real babies, not whiny game players) do when they don't get their way? First they cry... then they throw a temper tantrum and lash out. Guess you're done with the crying part...
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Just a minor correction. 
<-Male.
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oh snap lightning, i bet you're choking on the listerine now
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Why? Becuase I thought Snow was a chick? Made an assumption based on his name (sorry bud). Doesn't change anything.
Besides genius, I'm one of those guys who likes his own gender. So Snow being a dude wouldn't exactly knock me off my game.
My chivalry <sp> was genuine. Not everyone's trying to protect a chick out of a desire to get in her pants.
Holy [censored], he could have shoved all that into one reply.
Unofficial Brownnoser of PWNZ
I kiss the Devs [censored]! -Perfect_Pain
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Judging by this first round of proliferation, I'm almost scared to see how badly Red is gonna get it in the second and third rounds. The power proliferation? Well, looks like heroes got some of Villains better powersets, while, with exception of Storm, Red got crap. What about EMP's on Red side, or Cold for Brutes (a little Hibernation would be fun in PvP).
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Since there are more Powerset Proliferations coming, lets look at what remains to be gotten.
Blaster Primary: Dark Blast and Radiation Blast
Blaster Secondary: Dark Manipulation, Radiation Manipulation, Trick Arrow (maybe), Sonic Manipulation (?, I'm reaching), and Earth Manipulation (?, reaching again)
Brute Primary: Spines, Claws, Ice Melee, Broadsword, Katana / Ninja Blade, and Martial Arts
Brute Secondary: Regen, Ninjutsu and Ice Armor
Controller Primary: None, after Issue 13, controllers have all of the hard control sets
Controller Secondary: Dark Miasma, Poison, Traps and Cold Domination
Corrupter Primary: Archery and Psychic Blast
Corrupter Secondary: Empathy, Poison, Force Field, Traps (Devices might be a better fit) and Trick Arrow
Defender Primary: Thermal Radiation and Traps
Defender Secondary: Assault Rifle and Fire Blast
Dominator Primary: Illusion Control
Dominator Secondary: Dark Assault (could probably be pulled together in much the same way Electric Assault was)
Mastermind Primary: Only new ground to be broken here
Mastermind Secondary: Empathy, Kinetics, Radiation Emission, Sonic Resonance, Thermal Radiation, and Cold Domination
Scrapper Primary: War Mace, Battle Axe, Electric Melee, Icy Melee, Stone Melee, Super Strength and Energy Melee
Scrapper Secondary: Ninjutsu, Energy Aura, Ice Armor, Stone Armor and Electric Armor
Stalker Primary: Broadsword, Battle Axe, War Mace (?), Fiery Melee, Ice Melee, Stone Melee and Super Strength
Stalker Secondary: Ice Armor, Stone Armor and Invulnerability
Tanker Primary: Super Reflexes, Regeneration, Energy Aura and Electric Armor
Tanker Secondary: Broadsword, Claws, Katana, Spines, Electric Melee and Martial Arts
Overall, I'm satisfied with the new sets, and I'm looking forward to the next sets to be proliferated. As always, there will be things I want that won't come in the next round, but there were a few pleasant suprises in this round, so it probably all washes.
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Personally a hero team in RV with 1 EMP and 1 Thermal, will wreck just about anything Villains can throw at them. You see Villains complaining a lot....maybe there is good cause for this.
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Powerset Proliferation is not, and never was, about PvP balance. It is about giving ALL NEW CHARACTERS more options. If it does throw PvP even further out of whack, like most of us expect it to do, give the Devs a chance to address it. I can tell you right now, it won't be by taking Psi Blast away. They will either weaken it, shore up a defensive set, or begin designing a new powerset to counter it.
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I know I'd like to use my tier 1 and 2 powers while held.
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Then play a Blaster, Defiance is their inherent power. This was given to Blasters because 1) the previous version of Defiance sucked and 2) Blasters have very little in the way of any sort of damage mitigation. They have no active defenses, they have no passive defenses, they have no hard controls, they have very limited soft controls, and they have no way to recover once an enemy starts to beat on them. Mezz a Blaster, and it is very likely they will die, even if they break out before the enemy kills them, they probably won't have enough hit points left to escape.
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Fortunately, Champions is on the horizon, and is looking promising. Maybe they've learned some important lessons from their time with CoX, listen to all of the players.
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Because I'd like to see City of Heroes last for years and years more, I hope that the Champions folks do EXACTLY what you ask. It absolutely guarantees that Champions Online will fail. It has been proven time and time again that you can't please all of the people all of the time. Attempting to please everybody at the same time means that nobody winds up satisfied.
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Patron Powers are weak and horrible. The VEAT's may be decent, but the idea of playing a minion is very lack luster, jury still out on this one.
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Wrong thread. I doubt there is a single person that doesn't agree that Villains should have access to the APPs. I get the impression that the VEAT's aren't just any minion, but they will be held up as the Elite. The ones most Arachnos aspire to be.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
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Sadly I concur... perhaps it might have been better to avoid speculation. They SHOULD HAVE instead just said there was going to be a huge surprise patch and some such. By doing this we would have just been surprised, amazed and grateful that they GAVE us more stuff. Hype is bad news to the main forums.
Indig 
, leader of the City of Gaymers
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Actually, what they should have done was just put up the list of ported sets when they announced proliferation. A lot of folks were speculating on what was going where and getting thier hopes up, which naturally led to disappointment when a wanted set turned out to not be on the port list. Just telling us that a surprise was coming would have just had people speculating on what the surprise could be and would have it's own buildup of hoped for additions and acompanying letdown when the truth came out.
What they really need to do is just stop trying to be all cryptic and 'nudge nudge wink wink' when they make announcements. I believe the majority of us are most likely adults capable of being dealt with in a straightforward manner. Just dropping hints and letting peoples' imaginations run rampant with specualtion is just setup for a lot of folks to be disappointed and a backlash of complaints from that disappointment should not be a surprise.
I feel.... somewhat...
jipped...
As a scrapper lover anyway. I mean fire/fire?! you coudl j ust have gotten a tank. It honestly isnt that big of a leap. I was really hoping for Energy Aura to go with the already present Energy Melee.
Also I am dieing for Ninjitsu scrapper!
Tanks... okay dark/dark is nice but how about Electric/Electric?!!
Arg
Sigh...
Need help making your own CoH comics or read other's comics at cohcomicindex.com
www.jkcomics.com for Justice-Knights comics series and more!
Storylines:
Introductions, Obey,
im leaving who wants my toys?, oh wait i still have VEATS to try out and i did want a brute with a stick... never mind im staying
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Get a Defensive set... Ok let me get this straight. Brutes can't get Ice Powers because the slows cause the enemies to hit the brute less thereby decreasing Fury generation. But the can get defense based armors which prevent enemies from hitting them at all? I don't get it.
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Getting hit does not generate fury, getting attacked does. Fury builds up even when the attack misses.
Well I couldn't be happier with this. I love all the new sets and I know I will be rolling even more alts. I have no Idea why you guys are yelling doom. I believe they said that all powersets would be shared eventually. Give the Dev's time. They are not displaying hate to Villains. They just gave us the easiest powers to port over. Just wait and be patient. You should be happy that they gave us new powers at all.
I was fine not knowing what was coming, but once I saw the list I performed my own super powered move. The extreme eye roll TM. So is this the outlook for "new" powers to come?. Crossovers?. Again Im sorry Im not jumping up and down, left and right for the devs ideas. But so far im just looking toward the LEAT, as it is most likely the most original thing coming for us veterans.
Now I have been playing for a while now. And so far nothing I see coming is fun or exciting for me. Super Reflexes for Brutes?. Really?. Im sure every fan boy (which do exist on heroes) are spinning on their chairs for everything that is released in any issue be it a respec if that was all that was given. But what about us veterans that want to see some NEW(as in not currently in both games) powersets?. Is it too much to ask to come up with some not many, but some ideas?. Maybe im expecting too much, i am after all paying 15 dollars a month...so question, what do I get for 30 dollars a month?. Im willing to pay extra if it meant some new powers -.-.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
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This paying customer is truly depressed and let-down...way to make heroes the focus of this game...you better make I13 about villains and villains only
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Or what? You're going to take your ball and go home?
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Word of advice devs...hire a seperate team for villains...if you truly think that this is a seperate game, heroes shouldnt develop for villains...
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Why because some 14yo little twit with no concept thinks he's entitled or owed something.
Word of advice kid, learn to use proper tone. Devs don't owe you a damned thing. You're here by choice. Deal.
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LoL... he is whining about whining.... good job
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
Ok, MASSIVE let down! Giving stalkers electric armor over scrappers?! WHAT THE HECK O_O As if it wasn't bad enough to have Energy Melee stalkers 2 shotting people, we now have them being HIGHLY resistant and 2 shotting people! This is just pathetic. I really thought some people had more sense than to give stalkers, of all people, electric armor -_-
Can you make fire have better defense? they sucj heheh.
Alright, I have just a few things to add to this thread...
From here on out, and complaints made about whos not getting what, or, i wanted a blue one mommy! Are all considered shreiks from a little girl.
The only thing anyone can complaine about is that the devs are slow in releasing content, other than that, we all will be satisfied.....eventually.
Flux Tempest-Electric Melee/Willpower
Zaunte's Rage-Claws/Invulnerability
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So they didn't give /kin to MM's, is the reason that they couldn't get the pet's AI to say "SB plz" every minute and a half?
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can u imagine
theyd prolly accidently gimp the ninja and necro pets to run up in yer face and jump up n down, spamming u with SB PLS in tells and local the moment sb wore off on them
hehehe
but.. team port, ninjas on crack, fulcrum
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I read most of this thread (yeah, I had that much free time yesterday) and of everything I read this is the one thing that made me shudder.
I played a Ninja/FF MM with a /Kin once...never saw ANYTHING short of a SS character move that fast...
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
lol at least im not posting histrionics over stuff I haven't seen yet.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.