Discussion: Full Powerset Proliferation Revealed
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2008-03-28 11:16 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
So you are still telling me what you think is going to happen without one shred of evidence or one single moment of play to back up your claims.
You are telling me to play CoV before I make a judgement about it, yet you are unwilling to do the same with the powersets. Nice set of double standards you have there.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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If you like certain powersets being ported over, more power to you. however i'm looking at what all AT's get, that's what pvpers do. Large part of being proficient in the arena or zone for that matter is being aware of the capabilities/holes of every powerset/AT you may run into.
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Only partially correct. PvPers look at powers from the perspective of how it affects PvP (which is understandable). However, many non-PvPers may be happy with the powersets because they wanted them for variety reasons.
It's just a matter of what someone is wanting to get that colors whether or not they think this issue/topic is 'good.'
Co-Founder: Hand of Justice, Champion Server
Currently published arcs:
1) Azuria's Difficulties (arc: 55639) - Ver 1.2
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ninjitsu scrappers would have been cool, theme wise also fits well
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Not a bad idea. I think they'd look great with a katana.
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The only problem would be finding a power to replace Caltrops. The devs thus far haven't let us get into a situation where we can take a power twice. Other than that, Ninjitsu would be a neat set.
In other words, Aramar, Villains will whine until an Issue comes out that grants all new Epic Power Pools, balances PVP, gives Villains 30 more zones, and adds 10 Strike Forces. 
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Controllers
"Plant Control"
Either Fire or Ice heal and buff set created for
Corruptors - i would prefer fire - technically Poision
could also be used for trollers
ok got thermal - and am happy
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Defenders
Hopefully an elemental blast power - either fire or
ice - like the Corruptors have - again would prefer
fire
Again Either Fire or Ice heal and buff set created for
Corruptors - i would prefer fire - poison is unlikely
for defenders
Ok right on this one - i would still have prefered thermal but ehh
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How could you have hoped or be happy with thermal? Its almost EXACTLY empathy. Its quite annoyingly the most redundant set to possibly go to trollers. My vote still says we should have gotten poison. But even traps would have been the second best choice for at least SOME form of new-ish powers for trollers to play with.
I'm happy with cold for defenders though and ice was something i was hoping, but since making my ice blaster meh. But suppose i'll have fun with a cold/ice
AS for tanks and scraps. OMG. tanks definitely should have gotten elec/elec. And seriously wondering how long itll be before they nerf dark armor for tankers. And god do i still want elec melee for tanks so badly.
As for scrappers, What!? Fire melee, ok i guess something had to come, though again elec melee or even something like mace would have made more sense. Personally spines > fire melee for a scrapper because it helps to survive with kd/slows. I would expect the scrapper version to do to hit debuff or something. FSC will be sweet on scraps though (not more than blasters though. But to the big issue, WOW. Fire armor is already weak for tanks, how the heck are they going to justify it for scrappers??? With less resists, less HP, and less value from the heal, SERIOUSLY. There are going to be so many dead fire armor scrappers out there it'll almost be funny if it wasn't so sad. I would have more expected ice, energy or electric armor instead.
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
Wow...I just noticed my earlier post was erased. I didn't even say anything inapropriate. Let me try again...
Heroes did pretty good IMO. I think the vast majority wanted elec/elec, and hardly anyone wanted dark anything. I also think the vast majority wanted SuperStrength for scrappers, but fire/fire isn't to bad either.
As far as villains go, we got crap IMO. Out of 5 possible weapon sets brutes could have gotten, we get the two slowest and IMO lamest. To top it off we get SR which will completely suck for brutes unless it gets some kinda quick recovery added in.
That's just the beginning though. Storm for Corruptors is disappointing....storm for MM is a freaking joke. I was thinking Wow! if MMs get rad or thermal I will actually like having them on my team....instead they get the most annoying knockback/whitout set ever. To top the whole thing off stalkers get elec/elec. R U [censored] serious? It's almost like they just gave it to stalkers to rub it in tanks face.
How can the Devs be so out of touch with the player base not to realize this was gonna suck? I know this is suppose to just be the beginning and more powers will be shared, but seriously, we coulda done better than this.
I for one am very pleased to see what villains got. I actually want to play a stalker now! However, i'm most excited about an earth/elec or ice/elec dominator. 
@Stablae - Freedom Server
Controller/Dominator Freak
Freedom Server
Repeat Offenders: Doing hard things stupidly easy.
I think the main issue that people are having about the powers on red side is what this will do to the population in the Rogue Isles. Blue side now gets many of the powers that previously attracted people to the red side. Now if you want Ice shields you can go make a defender and find teaming much easier. This of course comes at the expence of the number of players on red side.
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Judging by this first round of proliferation, I'm almost scared to see how badly Red is gonna get it in the second and third rounds. Some say Vill side is always crying. Having played both sides, I feel there is legitimate reason. Patron Powers are weak and horrible. The VEAT's may be decent, but the idea of playing a minion is very lack luster, jury still out on this one. The power proliferation? Well, looks like heroes got some of Villains better powersets, while, with exception of Storm, Red got crap. What about EMP's on Red side, or Cold for Brutes (a little Hibernation would be fun in PvP). Personally a hero team in RV with 1 EMP and 1 Thermal, will wreck just about anything Villains can throw at them. You see Villains complaining a lot....maybe there is good cause for this. I know I'd like to use my tier 1 and 2 powers while held. Fortunately, Champions is on the horizon, and is looking promising. Maybe they've learned some important lessons from their time with CoX, listen to all of the players.
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I think this purty much spells out one of my main annoyances with this game---though I'll admit in a more accommodating manner.
I just, finally, got my Stalker to 50---breaking my vow to completely disregard the Red side due to the Patron Power fiasco. My SG leader, however, insisted, so I did it.
I can't possibly imagine a more boring, frustrating experience in online entertainment---even including EQ1. As a 'concept/character' type player, I found at every point in my progression, all such choices irrevocably, forcibly taken out of my hands---culminating in the outrage of 'patron powers'.
These 'powers' have got to be the worst designed and conceived abilities in the game. A complete waste of time and effort to 'achieve'. I've got 2 stored up respecs; and, while I cannot undo my irrevocable compulsion, I can certainly go back to ignoring them at the first opportunity (directly after this post, in fact).
Coupled with this PP system just announced, adding in the rigid restraints of the entire power and effects system---which makes even the addition of a single new powerset a horrific nightmare for the hard-working folks who maintain this game---well, perhaps you can see why I have become extremely bored with City Of. Nothing can be done about it---forever, apparently.
IMO, the villain side of this game (which seemed to have the greatest potential) has been nearly completely abandoned. With good reason: it hails back to the old, 80s style of linear, compulsory gameplay (which Turbine is famous for). The ATs, at their core, are merely blurred, pale facsimiles of the real, Hero ATs---with a few different power effects (the Gods alone know how long it took the poor coders to come up with those!).
So, enter in PP. Nothing new. More linear, compulsory gameplay over the same endlessly repeated ravaged city-scapes: static, contained, constrained and micro-managed play. Yes, yes, I know Blasters get Psi/Psi---big deal. The Min/Maxers out there are either laughing their powergaming heads off or screaming in outrage. Who really cares?
Tell me: why couldn't we have Archery/Archery for blasters, instead? I already know the reason, but I'm just wondering what everyone else thinks. Thematically, Archers are blasters, not Defenders---look at history and comicbooks.
Basically, all boiled-down, in my mind, this new system pushes this game even further away from the comicbook superhero/villain genre. No longer is the game about playing the concept of a hero or villain: it's about balancing spread-sheets and shuddering in horror about all the work it's going to take to add anything really new and imaginative.
So, lest I be accused again of complaining or whining for the sake of doing so, I offer the solution I offered last month:
make a new game
trash-can the code
start over
Sure, keep CoH/V going while you do so. But make a new game that doesn't rapidly, prematurely age your coders everytime you need to upgrade. Who knows? You guys have tons of imagination and talent. If you come up with something exciting and new, I might stick around.
Cal2
I think the Devs should have ported 2 secondary sets for MM's to make up for no primary set. For example Storm and Sonic.
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Storm for Masterminds? You're [censored] kidding right? Tell me you're [censored] kidding.
Those Epic Archetypes had better be something special. Ill. I feel ill. What did they do? Just list the possible new secondaries and pick the one that would mesh the least? No buffs or shields for pets. Knockback. Knockback. And more Knockback.
For corruptors, yes, storm makes a fun secondary. Paltry compared to cold domination, but fun. For MMs? Please.
No. No. No.
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I personally think a ranged/Storm MM would be hilarious to play...although it would be solo just to avoid the nightmare caused on teams.
Co-Founder: Hand of Justice, Champion Server
Currently published arcs:
1) Azuria's Difficulties (arc: 55639) - Ver 1.2
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Storm for Masterminds? You're [censored] kidding right? Tell me you're [censored] kidding.
Those Epic Archetypes had better be something special. Ill. I feel ill. What did they do? Just list the possible new secondaries and pick the one that would mesh the least? No buffs or shields for pets. Knockback. Knockback. And more Knockback.
For corruptors, yes, storm makes a fun secondary. Paltry compared to cold domination, but fun. For MMs? Please.
No. No. No.
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I personally think a ranged/Storm MM would be hilarious to play...although it would be solo just to avoid the nightmare caused on teams.
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I should hasten to say that I was writing about pve. In the right hands, against Arch-Villains, or possibly in RV (I'm not convinced of the usefulness of a stationary pet in pvp), storm would be a good secondary for MMs. But yeah, with a team? Especially a pick up team? I think nightmare is putting it rather mildly.
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Villains as a whole, get 9 'new' sets that villains can use. Storm can be used by 2 different AT's, but it's still one powerset ported to villains. Judging by your logic, if we add a powerpool set available (with 4 powers like all other pool powersets) to all AT's, we would be getting 44 new available powers. Sorry, but most people don't see it that way.
I highly doubt the blasters will be getting a port from the dominator psi assault set, it wouldn't make sense. Mental blast, psi scream, subdue, psi lance in a secondary? right, lol. It's not going to be a direct port from psi assault, no way considering some of the power choices will be redundant with psi blast.
lol if you think i don't know what I'm talking about. We can meet in the arena anytime buddy, care to test your game knowledge and experience in a 10 minute match?
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It wont be a direct port, itll have some switched around with the primary.
For the primary, i'd imagine. Tier:
1. Psionic Dart
2. Mental Blast
3. Psionic Lance
4. Psychic Scream
5. Telekinetic Blast
6. Will Domination
7. Psionic Tornado
8. Scramble Thoughts
9. Psychic Wail
And for the secondary, Tier:
1. Subdue
2. Mind Probe
3. Telekinetic Thrust
4.
5. Build up
6.
7. Drain Psyche
8. Some kind of melee hold or stun w/damage
9. Psychich Shockwave
The other 2 are somewhat of a mystery, but theyll have to come up with new powers for them also. My guess in the tier 6 spot a pbaoe sleep power, and in the tier 4 spot some kind of a short-range cone power or another pbaoe attack or even a melee confuse power or something.
And yeah, it would REALLY be nice to know what sets in the future are coming, or not coming so we can actually plan what toons we want to play now by knowing what we will end up with.
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
No, I'm telling you what IS going to happen. I have experience with all the powersets being ported over, the sets are not miraculously all of a sudden going to change in how they work application wise.
I've played the powersets already with the exception of the psi blaster secondary nobody really knows about yet. You act as if all the ports are some brand spanking new powersets we're getting. News flash: They're not.
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Okay, I usually dont even read forums, so I can avoid doing stuff like getting exasperated at people enough to finally register and say somethign like:
Okay, I know some people didnt get exactly what powersets they wanted for the ATs they wanted.... but really they are new powersets! I would have liked to see scrappers get super strength or masterminds getting revamped illusions primary (or at least another secondary), yes.. but I'm not going to moan about them making the 'wrong choice'. Many of you are not providing useful feedback, and just being big babies that got the wrong flavour of sucker.
Its still candy. Yum. I look forward to all the new combinations that these powersets have to offer, and I trust the dev's motivations behind thier choices.
Thank you very much for this, dev's. No matter what some people say, this is pure awesome.
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Best first post ever. *tips hat*
Welcome to the boards.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
This paying customer is truly depressed and let-down...way to make heroes the focus of this game...you better make I13 about villains and villains only
Word of advice devs...hire a seperate team for villains...if you truly think that this is a seperate game, heroes shouldnt develop for villains...
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/
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Villains as a whole, get 9 'new' sets that villains can use. Storm can be used by 2 different AT's, but it's still one powerset ported to villains. Judging by your logic, if we add a powerpool set available (with 4 powers like all other pool powersets) to all AT's, we would be getting 44 new available powers. Sorry, but most people don't see it that way.
I highly doubt the blasters will be getting a port from the dominator psi assault set, it wouldn't make sense. Mental blast, psi scream, subdue, psi lance in a secondary? right, lol. It's not going to be a direct port from psi assault, no way considering some of the power choices will be redundant with psi blast.
lol if you think i don't know what I'm talking about. We can meet in the arena anytime buddy, care to test your game knowledge and experience in a 10 minute match?
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I think you didn't really count the ported sets in a proper way.
hmmm....let's compare, shall we...
Brutes
Mace (new to villains)
Axe (new to villains)
SR
Corruptors
Electricity (new to villains)
Storm (new to villains, now shared with Masterminds)
Dominators
Earth (new to villains)
Electricity (partly shared with Brutes, Stalkers, partly new shared with Corruptors)
Masterminds
Storm (new to villains, now shared with Corruptors)
Stalkers
Elec
Elec
So that's essentially 5 new sets for villains (Mace, Axe, Storm, Earth Control, Electrical Blast).
Blasters
Psionic
Mental (new to heroes)
Controllers
Plant (new to heroes)
Thermal (new to heroes)
Defenders
Cold (new to heroes)
Ice
Scrappers
Fire
Fire
Tankers
Dark
Dark
So that's four new sets for heroes.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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This paying customer is truly depressed and let-down...way to make heroes the focus of this game...you better make I13 about villains and villains only
Word of advice devs...hire a seperate team for villains...if you truly think that this is a seperate game, heroes shouldnt develop for villains...
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....so you think this is hero-only issue because the powerset PORTION of the issue didn't have the powers falling where you like it?
...knowing basically nothing about the rest of the issue?
wow.
Co-Founder: Hand of Justice, Champion Server
Currently published arcs:
1) Azuria's Difficulties (arc: 55639) - Ver 1.2
If I didn't have a reason to close both of my accounts an quit this game I do now. Talk about the villians. If we weren't under powered before, we definately are now. Have any of the Dev's ever read a comic. Villians are equally as powerful as hero's, just opposite weaknesses. I can't believe we got screwed again. Are they biased or am I insane?
Given just those two options, I'd have to say you're insane.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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How is opening up new sets "going backwards"? I guess some in the small minority PvP community perhaps might think that way (surprise 95% of the whines here are about PvP). PvP'ers are usually the only ones that complain about others getting improvements to their characters I've noticed (really focused for me when people actually complained about ring of fire getting -fly). Which is part of why I hate PvP, but for PvE, more choices can not=going backward.
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Only a small percentage of players actually come to the boards and post. The "whining" pvp'ers here who may scream doom and cry foul are not necessarily wholly representative of the pvp community in game. No more than the pve players who do the same thing.
There are plenty of players (like me) who engage in pvp casually. Should people be flipping out before anything's been tested? Of course not. Attacking the developers is never acceptable. Accusing them of hating villains or pvp'ers or stalkers is silly. But expressing legitimate concern over how these power ports will affect one area of the game isn't "whining."
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As much as I might PvP, I still spend nearly all of my time in PvE, and my comments would be no less valid solely on either basis. If I see the Devs making poor decisions that mirror in exact detail other decisions they've made in the past, I'm going to point it out. Adding more sets in itself isn't the problem here, it's the haphazard way they're going about doing it and then defaulting to the "wait till Beta Testing" excuse. After this point here, it's already too late.
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AWWWWWW come on, any chance we can get poison in there for controllers. Thermal is just almost an exact copy of empathy with a tad of sonic lets get something new. Besides it themes with plant nicely anyways PLEASE.
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Judging from your post there, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about nor have you played a thermal corruptor.
An empathy's Fortitude and Clear mind is nothing compared to Forge and Thaw.
Not to mention, Fortitude grants, defense(and this is defense to ALL, smashing, lethal, cold, fire, psi, etc), damage, and To Hit, AND it an be powerboosted.
Forge grants damage and to hit and cannot be powerboosted.
Clear Mind grants resistance to Immob, hold, disorient, sleep, confuse, fear and it grants +perception. Seeing as how this stacks, you can be at the perception cap with 2 applications of CM.
Thaw however does not grant any sort of perception at all.
Also, Empathy has 2 single target heals, one is an "oh crap" heal that heals for 90% of a targets HP. So just about anyone can be kept alive for quite a while if you keep switching between heal other and absorb pain.
Thermal has only the equivalent to heal other and cauterize, and even at level 50, the heal values are not close.
Empathy also has the ability the buff others and the caster. Using Recovery aura and regeneration aura which makes the caster more survivable in pve AND pvp.
Thermal just has shields and cannot cast on themselves (obviously) and without a RA like power, Thermals are very end heavy.
I'm not trying to say Thermal should have RA, just pointing out that there are differences.
Also, Empathy is solely an all buff powerset, while thermal radiation, has buffs but also has debuffs with melt armor and heat exhaustion.
Next time, play the AT/Powersets before you jump to conclusion that they're the same, and judging from your sig, you haven't.
And no, heroes have gotten more than enough don't need poison. If anything Villains should've gotten empathy.
Wavicle,
You are as intelligent as a dead bush
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Mmmm. Fire/Fire for scrappers. This is a very appealing development. What the heck is the damage on BU+FE+GFS? (or BU+FE+HS for that matter)
I like it..
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Golden dragonfly w/ 3 damage IO + BU +FE = 1081 non crit
HS w/ same = 1233 also non crit.
Purple up HS and potential w/ crit is 2591 not counting other external buffs or popping reds.
With fire in secondary for scrappers I would not get my hopes up for EM or SS.
Storm for Masterminds? You're [censored] kidding right? Tell me you're [censored] kidding.
Those Epic Archetypes had better be something special. Ill. I feel ill. What did they do? Just list the possible new secondaries and pick the one that would mesh the least? No buffs or shields for pets. Knockback. Knockback. And more Knockback.
For corruptors, yes, storm makes a fun secondary. Paltry compared to cold domination, but fun. For MMs? Please.
No. No. No.