Discussion: Hollows Zone Gameplay Makeover
By
Aidalyn,
Posted on: 2008-03-19 09:38 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
These revamps sound awesome! I'm very excited to see the addtion of the Legacy Chain to the zone. I think they're a neat group villain side, and I'd love to learn more about them. I may actually play in the Hollows now instead of running to King's Row!
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I really hope this is not all the info we are getting today. 
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As I stated in an earlier thread, we are still weeks out from closed beta and more weeks out from open beta and then launch. So, expect to get something on a weekly basis from now till then. If we just dumped it all out now, well we'd be sitting around going "that's nice, but when can I play it?" So, thanks for your patience and understanding that it won't all come at once.
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I actually prefer having the information come out a little at a time. It gives me something to look forward to and, as stated, doesn't create a huge "dead air" space while we wait for the content to actually show up. Besides, the sooner it comes out, the sooner people will started escalating the " 
Why is X so Y and how come they didn't make Z more K? " posts. I'm good without those. I don't need months of people complaining about things they haven't even seen yet.
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I agree that I like the little bit of info every week, but as Geko pointed out, the powerset proliferation is the cause of alot of discussion, wild speculation, debate, and hysteria on the forums. I am NOT advocating for a complete release of all 15 or 16 we still do not know. (Although i would LIKE it)
I want them to do a full article on one of the other features this week, and then leak one or two sets (like they did with Storm for corrupters) each week. I do not even care if they put it in an 'official announcement', but just slipped it in a reply post like they did with Storm Corruptors. Perhaps they plan on doing this and leaking one or two this week yet, I do not know, but I can dream.
Back on topic though. I am very happy to hear about the Hollows changes. I may actually see the Hollows on the new alts I will be rolling depending on the additional slots info and the proliferation powerests info.
Wow, after (maby) a year, I'll be heading back to the Hollow.
Thanks WW.
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Each of those features has more posts just in the dev corner than the rest of the other features COMBINED. And if we counted all the various threads out in the other forums, it's clear that interest in those two features dwarfs anything else.
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You're absolutely, 100% right, EvilGeko.
So, those will almost certainly be the last topics to get more detail. Because they want us speculating and discussing and frothing about it, building buzz in the process.
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Honestly, I wanted to hear a little more about powerset proliferation if just to quell all of the moaning on the boards lately about psi/ and pvp.
I like the revamped hollows zone (and grats to WW for all of her hard work!) but this isn't going to do much in terms of the arguments currently going on.
Hell, the training room forum has gone off a cliff this past week.
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
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How does what you're asking for make any sense at all except that it fulfills our desire for instant gratification?
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What the heck is wrong with wanting instant gratification in this context? I'm not in the devs shoes, I'm in EvilGeko's shoes. I mildly interested in the Hollows, I'm greatly interested in Powerset Proliferation. Why am I unreasonable to ask about the information I'm interested in?
Not demanding, just explaining how incredibly disappointed I am in not getting any information about the features that I and from all evidence, the majority really care about.
I'll defend the devs anytime, but this is marketing BS. It's not selling me on Issue 12, I'm already interested and paying. What's the purpose? Create buzz? For what?
You tell us what sets are being sent over and there will be plenty of buzz.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
AWESOME changes War Witch. The zone sounds so much nicer and friendly. My biggest complaint was the door assignments for missions not matching up to their corresponding contact. Getting a mission from Flux and having to travel across the map was painful. The change to that is what I love the most about the revamp. The additional spawns of Legacy Chain also sound really cool, since I was only used to seeing them Villain side. The whole place has a whole new air of being dynamic and alive. Thanks again!
I'm curious, wasn't there mention of some sort of hospital in the Hollows in a previous dev post?
I used to enjoy taking my empathy healer (Dr. Barium on Pinnacle) into The Hollows to provide some drive-by healing and buffs to struggling lower-levelers there, or rezzing them so they didn't have to struggle back from Atlas.
But I gotta say that since my return to COH some weeks ago, there's virtually nobody there (aside from some groups that are presumably off doing Frostfire).
So I think anything that will get people excited about playing in the zone again (as with Faultline, even if this change isn't as fancy a makeover) will be a good thing. And maybe Dr. Barium can lend a hand there again when he's bored. I considered it "pro bono" work. 
Now if only they could do something about Fire Base Zulu, the Chantry, et al. 
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I'm curious, wasn't there mention of some sort of hospital in the Hollows in a previous dev post?
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It was in the main issue 12 update page . Probably just overlooked in WW's Dev Diary article.
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And I mean this as no offense to WW, but if you did rank what bits of info we wanted to hear about, the Hollows rework would be near last if not last. Giving us info at the rate of one per week I'm perfectly fine with. Just give us the stuff we want to know about the most first.
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You guys really need to put yourselves in the Dev's/Rep's shoes here.
How does what you're asking for make any sense at all except that it fulfills our desire for instant gratification?
No one with any sense ever doles out information meant to excite people with the best, most interesting news first. You give out the little things and work your way up to the best, most interesting stuff last, closest to the main event.
I want to know about the cool, nitty-gritty gameplay stuff too, but if I was in charge of giving out this info I would do exactly what they did here.
[/ QUOTE ]Well if that is the case then I would rather they just tell us everything at the same time if we have to get the good stuff last. All these non-essential tidbits about stuff does is just going to let us down every single week until the end. How is that fair to your customers either? Again I am not trying to take away from what WW did, it is just like everyone else has said we either want to know about the stuff we want or just hold it all to the end because the suspense is going to kill us either way.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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How does what you're asking for make any sense at all except that it fulfills our desire for instant gratification?
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What the heck is wrong with wanting instant gratification in this context? I'm not in the devs shoes, I'm in EvilGeko's shoes. I mildly interested in the Hollows, I'm greatly interested in Powerset Proliferation. Why am I unreasonable to ask about the information I'm interested in?
Not demanding, just explaining how incredibly disappointed I am in not getting any information about the features that I and from all evidence, the majority really care about.
I'll defend the devs anytime, but this is marketing BS. It's not selling me on Issue 12, I'm already interested and paying. What's the purpose? Create buzz? For what?
You tell us what sets are being sent over and there will be plenty of buzz.
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Perhaps you should read the rest of his post that you failed to quote, he explains it quite well.
Bummed to hear that the easy methods of doing Dave's hunts (buy a bunch of insps, go nuts on the first large group you find, repeat) and Julius' Red River hunt (go downstream, find 10 or so lowbie trolls, dispatch) will be gone.
Happy to hear that mission doors will finally be clustered together. I never skip the Hollows, but Flux especially thought it was humorous to interrupt game session "flow" by sending one to the SW or SE corner of the zone.
The choice to have the new contact by the SG beam in point sounds quite good.
Looking forward to seeing the stuff all go live.
President of the Arbiter Sands fan club. We will never forget.
An Etruscan Snood will nevermore be free
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I really hope this is not all the info we are getting today.
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Some people are never happy.
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/signed
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Humm, way to some one up by one post they have made.
I like many others would have liked to get a tidbit about something they WANTED to know. The hallows are ok, but those changes are not something I am excited about. Selfish of me, a bit I guess.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
(qr) Superb! New contact, repeatables in a zone which now bears re-exploration!
You did good WW.
I myself couldn't really care much about the powersets or whatever other "tidbits" will be released. This is enough to chew on.
What happens when the next tidbit isn't "what everyone is whining about - er, asking for". Each of us will find out what the game's going to add *when the game is updated*.
Things might change between now and closed Beta, things might change even MORE between closed and open beta. If the devs say something will happen X way and then have to change it to Y way - who's going to bemoan the changes the most? Those who demanded to know "right freaking now".
Stop demanding. Let them do their jobs, and fiddle with what we're getting properly, so that when they DO announce it, *it works the way they announce*.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
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You guys really need to put yourselves in the Dev's/Rep's shoes here.
How does what you're asking for make any sense at all except that it fulfills our desire for instant gratification?
No one with any sense ever doles out information meant to excite people with the best, most interesting news first. You give out the little things and work your way up to the best, most interesting stuff last, closest to the main event.
I want to know about the cool, nitty-gritty gameplay stuff too, but if I was in charge of giving out this info I would do exactly what they did here.
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Then here's what you do. You skip the big overview of what's happening and just do the break down pieces. If the Hollows rework was the first bit of info, we would have a solid week of people just talking about it. Next week we cover the new zones and beat that to death for a week. The final two homeruns would have us all in a mad frenzy and then beta testing hits. Right now, we know what's coming and that's what's making it worse.
"What did you get me?"
"I got you a car?"
"A car? Holy crap! What kind of car?"
"I can't tell you."
"Is it new, or used?"
"I'm not saying."
"Dude, you already told me you got me a car. What's the point in holding back the other info?"
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Woot! This is gonna rock... One question- How the heck did Coralax get into the Red River, and why? I hope we get background-missions.
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Well the Red River goes from the bay just outside of Talos Island (a bit NW of the NW corner of the zone) and into the Hollows. This is near to PI and from what I understand the Rogue Isles are N/NW of PI with Mercy Island being the closest to Paragon City (hence why escapees from the Zig are dropped off there). The lower level coralax from the Rogue Isles could easily have swum down to the delta for the Red River and followed the river up into the Hollows area. The rest of the coastline along that area isn't in a zone or is part of Talos Island and the more powerful DE along the coastline would wipe out the coralax that came over. Maybe in time we'll see higher level coralax take over some of the coastline of PI, Striga, or Talos.
Have to agree with the evil lizard....best to give the customer what they want...besides if I hear one more "save us from the psi/what ever secondary PvP blasters are coming" I will become violently ill...also if you released all the info about I12 maybe alot of the old retired vets might come back sooner to reserve names etc....there by increasing your bottom line that much sooner....
"...well I have wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor and I am happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P Dowd (from the movie Harvey)
They get the boring out of the way first.
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I really hope this is not all the info we are getting today.
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As I stated in an earlier thread, we are still weeks out from closed beta and more weeks out from open beta and then launch. So, expect to get something on a weekly basis from now till then. If we just dumped it all out now, well we'd be sitting around going "that's nice, but when can I play it?" So, thanks for your patience and understanding that it won't all come at once.
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How about gradual stuff? One powerset from Powerset Proliferation per day, that'll buy a couple weeks, and then a sum-up article at the end explaining why choices were made as they are.
Jerk 4 Life
In brightest day, in blackest night/No evil shall escape my sight/Let those who worship evil's might/Beware my power ... Green Lantern's light!/(Meowth, that's right!)
My Arcs: #4827: Earth For Humans. #6391: Young Love.
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Woot! This is gonna rock... One question- How the heck did Coralax get into the Red River, and why? I hope we get background-missions.
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Well the Red River goes from the bay just outside of Talos Island (a bit NW of the NW corner of the zone) and into the Hollows. This is near to PI and from what I understand the Rogue Isles are N/NW of PI with Mercy Island being the closest to Paragon City (hence why escapees from the Zig are dropped off there). The lower level coralax from the Rogue Isles could easily have swum down to the delta for the Red River and followed the river up into the Hollows area. The rest of the coastline along that area isn't in a zone or is part of Talos Island and the more powerful DE along the coastline would wipe out the coralax that came over. Maybe in time we'll see higher level coralax take over some of the coastline of PI, Striga, or Talos.
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That's an incredibly well thought out reason. Bravo
I for one welcome our new corally overlords...
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Those all sound like really great changes to the Hollows. Now how about setting War Witch loose on the Shadow Shard? The huge villain population in the Shard is entirely too static, too rooted in place. The Shard has such enormous unrealized potential.
How about:
- a few wandering space "dragons"
- a few wandering rikti spacecraft
- a 50-hero Hamidon-raid-level arch-villain
- hollow out some asteroids for us to explore
- more complicated "one-off" missions
- an accolade power earned by completing the four Shard TFs
- access to the Shard for CoV (co-op mode like the RWZ?)
- actually place the Ski Chalet and Pocket D somewhere in the Shard
- black holes, small meteors, vision-obscuring nebulae
- a wisp city
- random rare rularuu raid on FBZ
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Yow! Hell yah! DoitDoitDoit! And I wanna see the Clockwork King TAKE OVER BOOMTOWN! Rar!
Please? Welcome to the Clockwork Kingdom!
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How does what you're asking for make any sense at all except that it fulfills our desire for instant gratification?
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What the heck is wrong with wanting instant gratification in this context? I'm not in the devs shoes, I'm in EvilGeko's shoes. I mildly interested in the Hollows, I'm greatly interested in Powerset Proliferation. Why am I unreasonable to ask about the information I'm interested in?
Not demanding, just explaining how incredibly disappointed I am in not getting any information about the features that I and from all evidence, the majority really care about.
I'll defend the devs anytime, but this is marketing BS. It's not selling me on Issue 12, I'm already interested and paying. What's the purpose? Create buzz? For what?
You tell us what sets are being sent over and there will be plenty of buzz.
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Perhaps you should read the rest of his post that you failed to quote, he explains it quite well.
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What you mean this:
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No one with any sense ever doles out information meant to excite people with the best, most interesting news first. You give out the little things and work your way up to the best, most interesting stuff last, closest to the main event.
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Doling out little tidbits would be:
Tankers get ..... Next week come back and find out what Scrappers get.
The Hollows revamp does not excite a great amount of people. It's just not getting the attention, Powerset Proliferation is. Thus we shouldn't consider every feature of Issue 12 as having equal amount of interest generating potential.
Giving information about the Hollows revamp is effectively giving no information about the features of Issue 12 that many want to hear. Give us a tidbit about what we do want to hear.
(Lastly, I had a pretty sarcastic response ready to go. Let's try to keep the discourse high. I did read UberGuy's post and responded to that point already. Let's not start being [Censored] to each other. We can disagree civily.)
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I'm really impressed with all WW has managed to do with so little time. I was not expecting more than a few spawn nudges and the new mini-hospital.
I love diversifying the inhabitants (ok maybe not the Vahzilok, they're just icky) and it makes sense that with all the things stirring them up in the Rogue Isles that the Coralax might swim past Striga and up to this coastal river area of Paragon City. I love that we'll be seeing a few Legacy and Longbow sticking their noses in. I'm hoping the new repeatable contact will give us some missions related to the Legacy Chain.
The mission door thing... that's just so awesome, especially for the lower level players without even a safeguard mission travel power.
As much as some of the other City zones could use a sprucing, I look forward to the day they let her clean up Mercy Island. I hate that zone so much that the moment I ding 5 I use my Pocket D card and evacuate the zone for Port Oakes. And I know I am not alone in that. But that's going to be a big project that requires art resources. I think it's great she gets to practice on these other zones as time permits. I think its wonderful our devs, in general, try to really maximize what they can do for the game with limited time/resources.
The next Chai's on me WW. And I brew mine from scratch with extra ginger and cardamom.
Now make Hollows radio missions available so I can get the temp travel powers there instead of having to go to King's Row and I'm sold.
Sounds good so far.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04