Discussion: Hollows Zone Gameplay Makeover
By
Aidalyn,
Posted on: 2008-03-19 09:38 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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This is great and all but...
IS THERE GOING TO BE A HOSPITAL
(forgive me if this was already mentioned)
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You could try -reading- the thread. Or at least go to "show all posts" and (ctrl-f) search for "Hospital" Search-fu will serve you well on the forums.
But anyway, a prior dev post indicated that there was going to be a mobile medical unit added to the zone. (which is to say that it's a police medical unit with a truck, presumably like in the safeguards, not that it's going to move around the zone) There was nothing about it in this writeup from WW, but there's no reason to assume that the prior confirmation has been recanted. WW was mostly talking about spawn changes and the new contact, anyway.
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
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This is great and all but...
IS THERE GOING TO BE A HOSPITAL
(forgive me if this was already mentioned)
[/ QUOTE ]
You could try -reading- the thread. Or at least go to "show all posts" and (ctrl-f) search for "Hospital" Search-fu will serve you well on the forums.
But anyway, a prior dev post indicated that there was going to be a mobile medical unit added to the zone. (which is to say that it's a police medical unit with a truck, presumably like in the safeguards, not that it's going to move around the zone) There was nothing about it in this writeup from WW, but there's no reason to assume that the prior confirmation has been recanted. WW was mostly talking about spawn changes and the new contact, anyway.
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War Witch is adding gurneys (ala the Safeguard missions) to the front of the zone that you will go to if you are overcome and hit ye olde hospital button.
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
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This is great and all but...
IS THERE GOING TO BE A HOSPITAL
(forgive me if this was already mentioned)
[/ QUOTE ]
You could try -reading- the thread. Or at least go to "show all posts" and (ctrl-f) search for "Hospital" Search-fu will serve you well on the forums.
But anyway, a prior dev post indicated that there was going to be a mobile medical unit added to the zone. (which is to say that it's a police medical unit with a truck, presumably like in the safeguards, not that it's going to move around the zone) There was nothing about it in this writeup from WW, but there's no reason to assume that the prior confirmation has been recanted. WW was mostly talking about spawn changes and the new contact, anyway.
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War Witch is adding gurneys (ala the Safeguard missions) to the front of the zone that you will go to if you are overcome and hit ye olde hospital button.
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woo nice!
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War Witch is adding gurneys (ala the Safeguard missions) to the front of the zone that you will go to if you are overcome and hit ye olde hospital button.
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Woo Hoo!
Now if we can just get them to do that in all the rest of the Hazard zones.
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War Witch is adding gurneys (ala the Safeguard missions) to the front of the zone that you will go to if you are overcome and hit ye olde hospital button.
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Woo Hoo!
Now if we can just get them to do that in all the rest of the Hazard zones.
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(coughcoughstrigacoughcough)
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
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War Witch is adding gurneys (ala the Safeguard missions) to the front of the zone that you will go to if you are overcome and hit ye olde hospital button.
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Hmmm, so my idea of VEATs calling the Flier to transport them isn't out of the realm of possibility.
Poison Pill
Just out of curiosity, how does that relate to safeguard style gurneys?
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
So ive waited four years for this?. Call me the pessimist, but Many of the people I have played with, used to complain about the hollows for a while now. We missed our well deserved hollows face lift when the devs somehow felt revamping Faultline was a better venture. Trying to draw attention to Fault is fine and all since before that, it was considered Hollows version 1.5. But how many people go to Hollows? Im sure a lot more than those that go to Fault.
Hollows used to be famous for the Frostfire mission and helping players get to lvl 14 (thank you Atta). Yes I am happy that it has been "faced" but honestly this late in the game?. Theres a lot to say about a Dev team that takes 4 years to complete and or revamp a zone where everyone had complaints about. Whats next Eden? or Crey Folly?. Overall these zones have nothing that rouses interest when going in. Most just go to either complete a mission or TF.
In conclusion. YES I'm glad Hollows is getting "fixed", but im sad that it took this long. Is this really the future of CoH?. we whine enough and we get Dual Blades, but we ask for a better playing zone and we wait 4 years?. YES I know the hard work that goes into being a dev. But this problem was going on way before i11, and should have been addressed at least after i5. Thanks Warwitch, im glad you finally decided to do something we all noticed (no offense). Frankly everyone I know who plays the game, are just hitting there said yawn emote.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
I just realized that I only had the "visit Wincott" mission once on any of my toons. Because once I hit level 5, I just head to the Hollows anyway. I don't give my contacts a chance to send me to Wincott. I've not really tried to avoid the Hollows ever.
I will do the first two missions from Azuria, street sweep and then when I hit level 5, I go to KR and get my jet pack from the safeguard mission and then head to the Hollows. I did notice that on my latest toon, a WP/EM tank that I went from level 5 to level 6 just by doing the 3 radio mission and the safeguard mission. Yay for xp curve smoothing.
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
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So ive waited four years for this?. Call me the pessimist, but Many of the people I have played with, used to complain about the hollows for a while now. We missed our well deserved hollows face lift when the devs somehow felt revamping Faultline was a better venture. Trying to draw attention to Fault is fine and all since before that, it was considered Hollows version 1.5. But how many people go to Hollows? Im sure a lot more than those that go to Fault.
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Actually, -after- the revamp, most people I know hit faultline when they get to the appropriate level. Compared to the ghost town it used to be, I'd say the faultline revamp was a overwhelming success. (given the point was to get people interested in a zone they weren't interested in.) The revamp of the Rikti Crash Site has had similar success in invigorating a previous ghost-town.
(Along the way there have also been lots of other updates to other features, but you seem to be interested in ignoring those)
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Hollows used to be famous for the Frostfire mission and helping players get to lvl 14 (thank you Atta). Yes I am happy that it has been "faced" but honestly this late in the game?. Theres a lot to say about a Dev team that takes 4 years to complete and or revamp a zone where everyone had complaints about. Whats next Eden? or Crey Folly?. Overall these zones have nothing that rouses interest when going in. Most just go to either complete a mission or TF.
In conclusion. YES I'm glad Hollows is getting "fixed", but im sad that it took this long. Is this really the future of CoH?. we whine enough and we get Dual Blades, but we ask for a better playing zone and we wait 4 years?. YES I know the hard work that goes into being a dev. But this problem was going on way before i11, and should have been addressed at least after i5. Thanks Warwitch, im glad you finally decided to do something we all noticed (no offense). Frankly everyone I know who plays the game, are just hitting there said yawn emote.
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Well there's a backhanded compliment if I ever saw one. You know, saying "no offense" after rude remarks doesn't make them less rude.
I for one would love to see updates to Eden or Crey's Folly. Not nessecarily in the vein of faultline and RWZ's total revamps, mind you, but adding content, story content, and adding flavor to the zones would be cool.
As far as Hollows is concerned, well, there wasn't -that- much wrong with it, So it was a low priority. That's the way these things work. Major problems get fixed quickly, minor ones get delegated to the back of the pile.
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
The no offense part was due to the fact that I didnt mean it as an insult. Merely a form of fact and or critique. Again though thanks for your OPINION on a comment. Moving on.
"there wasn't that much wrong with it". Really?, How long have you've been playing?. Everyone in my SG(frankly every SG i've been in),always complain about hollows. Either the hard to reach missions, or the "death in the gulch" syndrome which many players run into. Or how about the lack of trainer and hospital?. How about the lack of temp powers?. You see what im trying to say or rather express, is that all that was given to Faultlines revamp.
As for it being a low priority I think your mistaken, at least in my opinion. A zone that was known to Farm Frostfire, and get you to level 14 is farm from "low priority". Immediate action and mission content at level 5 is far past low priority. Hollows or any Zone for that much is never a minor problem. Adding a Trainer or a shop is.
And I think you missed my point, I'm glad other features where put in but thats not the point. My point was that it took way too long to
"fix" the Hollows, and while im glad they did im disappointed for it taking so long.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
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The no offense part was due to the fact that I didnt mean it as an insult. Merely a form of fact and or critique. Again though thanks for your OPINION on a comment. Moving on.
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And yet, it was insulting.
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And I think you missed my point, I'm glad other features where put in but thats not the point. My point was that it took way too long to "fix" the Hollows, and while im glad they did im disappointed for it taking so long.
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...so you were just letting off steam, then. You could have just pointed out "I really wish this had happened sooner," without all the extra detail that implies "you suck for taking so long."
Thank you for your honest opinion. Care to actually read my post next time, or maybe comment on the topic in hand?. Please don't just attack me because you don't seem to agree with my statement. Lets not make this a big deal and please address the subject.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
The assumption of course is, that the Hollows "Needed" fixing in the first place.
It's the first Hazard Zone that players encounter (not counting the Sewers, which, IMO, are little more than a PL-fest.) Why WOULDN'T it be dangerous? This is where up-and-coming heroes learn something that will do them well for the rest of their careers - TEAMWORK.
If it were a cakewalk, everyone would solo the Hollows content and call it good. Instead there's obstacles that have to be overcome. How to get to that level 6 mission door across a whole LOT of level 14 terrain? without a travel power? Now is the lesson for tact, caution, and perseverance, all things a lot of people would do well to learn.
I agree with the first aid station, although it removes the 'hook' for my EMT character, an emp/elec that is part of a search-rescue battallion attached to the Paragon Fire Dept. Many hours have I spent in the Hollows, waiting for the call for rez/evac. Now players can do that themselves.
Oh well... on to Perez? Wait, no one goes into Perez much....
So, yes to revamp, but no to whining that the Hollows was "broken". Unlike a lot of the Hazard Zones, the Hollows has always had CONTENT, and that to me matters more than having to deal with purple-con rock beasts at the bottom of fissures.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
For those who are soloing (and yes, some people like to solo, some people have lifestyles that mean that getting a team isn't always possible or they have to be ready to go afk which makes them bad teammates), the Hollows was badly broken.
These will do a lot to making the Hollows less broken. But I was hoping for more.
What's still broken?
First, with the way the map is all broken up, it can be painful/deadly without a travel power. It's less broken now that you aren't forced to go to areas that are way out of your level, but it's still too easy to fall into a crevace that limit your choices to (a) pleading for a port out or (b) finding opponents above your level and getting defeated so you can go to hospital. Purely from a map design, Striga and Croatoa are far more accessible to those without a travel power than the Hollows. With the elevators and water, you can argue that the Fautline map is more low-level friendly.
And second, the mandatory "Yes, you must go to the Hollows. No, I won't give you any missions until you do. No, you don't have to do any missions in the Hollows if you don't like it. But you still have to sprint halfway across KR to the tram, halfway across Atlas Park to the Hollows exit, click on Wincott and return to Atlas where you sprint halfways across Atlas park to the tram, and halfway across KR so you can finally get a real mission."
The change I most want in the Hollows is having the KR contact say "let me introduce you to a contact", you click introduce me, you're told about Wincott and the Hollows and Wincott is added to your contact list, and you then turn back to your KR contact and say "So, what missions do you have for me?"
I don't want to seem ungrateful, many of these changes sound good and I may do Hollows missions on my new SuperStrength/Fire scrapper (hey, a guy can dream). But if I decide against going through the Hollows, there is no reason I should be forced to physically go to Wincott. And that also applies to Faultline, Striga, Croatoa, and the RWZ. You should be given the intro contact as a contact, so you know they exist, but it shouldn't be mandatory.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
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Just out of curiosity, how does that relate to safeguard style gurneys?
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Having a NPC/Object come to the player. You could then trigger a location choice based on your mission/contact list. Then run a animation of you exiting the flier at that location.
Poison Pill
With the upcoming Power Proliferation and changes to the Hollows, I'll give the updated Hollows a whirl. 
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Just out of curiosity, how does that relate to safeguard style gurneys?
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Having a NPC/Object come to the player. You could then trigger a location choice based on your mission/contact list. Then run a animation of you exiting the flier at that location.
Poison Pill
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Not down on your idea, but I think you're misunderstanding the gurneys. Functionally, it's no different from a hospital. It's a static, unmoving respawn point, probably in the middle of the police presence at the zone entrance. Basically, it let's them put a "hospital" in the zone without having to add a new building.
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
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The no offense part was due to the fact that I didnt mean it as an insult. Merely a form of fact and or critique. Again though thanks for your OPINION on a comment. Moving on.
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Yes, well, perhaps you didn't mean it as an insult, but it sure read like one, and saying "no offense" doesn't magically make the snotty attitude go away.
But you're right, it is my OPINION that you were being rude. Of course, isn't that what defines what we consider polite behavior -anyway-? The OPINIONs of others?
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"there wasn't that much wrong with it". Really?, How long have you've been playing?.
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Since beta.
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Everyone in my SG(frankly every SG i've been in),always complain about hollows. Either the hard to reach missions, or the "death in the gulch" syndrome which many players run into.
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I've heard lots of complaints, but I've also heard lots of complaints about a ton of elements of the game; little, nagging problems that people wish would get fixed, but ultimately are never willing to say they'd give up new content to see it happen.
I complain when I have to drive to my bank. It doesn't mean I expect an ATM installed in my house.
The hollows was not -broken-. It works fine, for the most part, but they've learned things from their experiences and refinements in zone design, and this is the first time they've gone back and rearranged a zone like this.
I'll say this again. Hollows worked fine. It got traffic, people played the content, they liked the content, it just wasn't all completely convenient. It got -traffic-.
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Or how about the lack of trainer and hospital?. How about the lack of temp powers?. You see what im trying to say or rather express, is that all that was given to Faultlines revamp.
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I actually -don't- see what you're trying to say or express here. Are you saying that Faultline's revamp was just a trainer and hospital, and some temp powers? 0_o
Faultline, before the overhaul, was a DEAD ZONE. You went there to badge for embalmed. Unless you were a speedster. It was empty all the time, despite the time that had been spent developing it. The revamp for -that- zone was much needed, and has succeeded in breathing new life into that zone.
It was also a graphical overhaul, making major changes, adding new repairs and constructions, and brought new contacts and story arcs into the zone. It was, in fact, pretty much a brand new zone. (as was the Rikti War Zone)
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As for it being a low priority I think your mistaken, at least in my opinion.
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I think Pat Moynihan said something relevant to this about opinions and facts.
It doesn't matter what your opinion is on whether it should be low priority. The simple fact that it has taken the devs this long to decide that there was action to be taken and to then take that action shows it that it -was- a low priority. That's a fact. High priority problems get fixed quickly. This didn't even get noticed or recognized until this issue.
That shows it was not a high priority for the dev team.
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A zone that was known to Farm Frostfire, and get you to level 14 is farm from "low priority". Immediate action and mission content at level 5 is far past low priority. Hollows or any Zone for that much is never a minor problem. Adding a Trainer or a shop is.
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You're a little disjointed here. What immediate action are you referring to?
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And I think you missed my point, I'm glad other features where put in but thats not the point.
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No, that's -exactly- the point. Do you believe that tweaking the spawns and mission doors for the Hollows trumps all the new content that we have gotten since the Hollows launched? Can you generate a list of things that have been done that you believe could have been backburnered for this?
Becuase it's not like you can just say "try harder" and expect the devs to magically extend their days by an extra hour to accomodate you.
For this to happen earlier, other things would have had to be knocked back. So what would you have knocked back? If you can't come up with anything, then you're just spewing wind.
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My point was that it took way too long to
"fix" the Hollows, and while im glad they did im disappointed for it taking so long.
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There's also a saying about gift horses that has already been invoked once in this thread. They didn't -have- to fix the hollows at all. It's -still- a better zone then a lot of others, including some that have been around longer. You don't like navigating the gulch, okay. I've shuddered at the thought of the tree maze in perez since this game launched, and that zone hasn't gotten -any- kind of an overhaul.
But if it got one, I still wouldn't -complain- that it didn't come -faster-, because while I was waiting for that, I also got lots of new zones, contacts, missions, costume pieces, badges, tailors, zone events, story events, villian gameplay, new ATs, new powersets, new mission maps, new emotes, new level caps with even more new missions and storyarcs, new gameplay features like inventions and the market...
The devs haven't been resting on their laurels. Stop being an ingrate.
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
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But if I decide against going through the Hollows, there is no reason I should be forced to physically go to Wincott. And that also applies to Faultline, Striga, Croatoa, and the RWZ. You should be given the intro contact as a contact, so you know they exist, but it shouldn't be mandatory.
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This is a sore point for me. I am frustrated with getting a new set of contacts and then having one of them send me to the PvP zone liasons as a mission. Just have the contacts give them as a new contact introduction and not as a mission.
| Issue 9 Fly poses | IO's and ED
| Cycling the Combat Monitor | Load Macros from a Text File |
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But if I decide against going through the Hollows, there is no reason I should be forced to physically go to Wincott. And that also applies to Faultline, Striga, Croatoa, and the RWZ. You should be given the intro contact as a contact, so you know they exist, but it shouldn't be mandatory.
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True this is a pain. But if you happen to be by the Hollows door around level 5. Pop in, and talk to him and close the window without taking any missions. Your next contact won't give you the "Hollows Task Force" needs a hand mail run. Don't know if the same works for the PvP contacts
And I will admit that having a Hospital in zone would be handy, but how would you zone to Atlas from the back part of the zone? Got to love the Death Express 
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But if I decide against going through the Hollows, there is no reason I should be forced to physically go to Wincott. And that also applies to Faultline, Striga, Croatoa, and the RWZ. You should be given the intro contact as a contact, so you know they exist, but it shouldn't be mandatory.
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This is a sore point for me. I am frustrated with getting a new set of contacts and then having one of them send me to the PvP zone liasons as a mission. Just have the contacts give them as a new contact introduction and not as a mission.
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Well, I don't really mind the PvP liason missions. For one thing, they're not actually -in- the zone. Also, they're not contacts, which is why they don't just drop them in your contact list. It also helps you find out where the actual zone entrance is. (what zone, etc)
Besides, if they did drop the PVP zone -contacts- in your contact list, it doesn't inform the player about the details of the zones and PVP as well.
Plus, it's an easy mission. "run here, run back".
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
Right, I think one thing people need to keep in mind is that some of these missions are about teaching and showing new players new things.
I know, as longtime players now playing alts, that these things are just bothersome, but it's not really so bad.
I don't mean this to sound condescending at all (As I include myself in this), but perhaps sometimes we need to remember what this game (And the mmorpg genre) is all about and remember that the running back and forth, the being forcibly sent to distant and different zones AND the grim reality of having to go through hazardous areas while so under-prepared and under-powered are all aspects of learning.
These things that we've all "complained" about are also some of the things that helped to develop the foundation of the heroes that we have all become.
Hehe, anyway... all that being said, I'm looking forward to checking out the new Hollows and seeing how it all plays out.
It sounds like WW is doing enough to make it more fun, but not too much to make it a lesser experience.
We shall see! 
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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First, with the way the map is all broken up, it can be painful/deadly without a travel power. It's less broken now that you aren't forced to go to areas that are way out of your level, but it's still too easy to fall into a crevace that limit your choices to (a) pleading for a port out or (b) finding opponents above your level and getting defeated so you can go to hospital.
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You forgot "(c) learning to not fall in the crevasse in the first place or, (d) learning to navigate the crevasse".
Neither is particularly difficult.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
This is great and all but...
IS THERE GOING TO BE A HOSPITAL
(forgive me if this was already mentioned)