Discussion: Hollows Zone Gameplay Makeover
By
Aidalyn,
Posted on: 2008-03-19 09:38 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Asking for the release of the Powerset Proliferation plan is a valid request to be posted in these forums (although, it's a bit much to complain *bitterly* it wasn't released yet -- lighten up, Francis). It was not appropriate to bring it up in these threads. Please stop hijacking threads with pet peeves.
And so, if you're disappointed that you still have to wait to hear the rest of the story on Powerset Proliferation, you can go to City Life and commiserate with other players. If you think the Devs should release that info sooner, go to Player Suggestions and suggest it.
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Good grief, people are whiny.
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Heh, and this is just a tidbit of information. Wait until they release the large chunks. 
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while this is all good stuff, just one small concern, with current number of ignious bosses springing up, to get the badge is a bit of a pain, if they are reduced very much then getting the badge will be even more of a pain
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They'll still be in full force deep in the Gulch - big hazzardy spawns. However, around the edge of the Gulch will be the lower level, smaller spawned Igneous taking their 'dirt nap' and will pop up when you get near. Igneous aren't going away or being severely reduced. I'm sure Meg will also give out Igneous one-off missions at your level!
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I dont want to be too snarky, and this is not directed at you, Geko, or anyone in particular:
Please read this
Especially the Marshmallow experiment.
Let's all relax, people. there's a lot of info to come, and a long time to wait. Each piece of info released, well, you can see on the boards already that there are people out there who already know exactly how things will work, and how it will destroy the game, and how everything the devs are doing is wrong, and etc., etc., etc
Nothing good can come of announcing too early initial excitement will change to ennui, then negativity. It's happening as we speak with what little has been announced already.
Someone said that people wont test stuff if theyve already decided it will suxx. I agree, and this is a prime reason to keep everything close to the vest until we are much closer.
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."
Oh, and by the way, War Witch, I love the changes, and Im looking forward to playing in the Hollows again! I liked it the first time I went there, I found good PuGs and they taught me a little, but I havent been back because of the unfriendliness. Thanks!
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Crie Moar Plz!
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Why thank you I will! 
While a hijack, this thread isn't exactly inappropriate for this topic. The devs decided to lead with this and as such, it's a valid point of discussion to consider whether this info was what they should have led with.
Sure LH could come along and tell me, "No you're wrong EG, go away" but that would just be him pulling rank.
And in any event, better to keep this hear than to start a new forum topic.
Less clutter. And besides, there's not much to say here except, "Good night WW, Good work, Sleep well, I'll most likely kill you in the morning."
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I've always liked the Hollows and like the new changes. Except for the Vahz being there. I hate the Vahz and don't want them spoiling my Hollows.
I'm most excited about the mission doors being closer to the contacts. I was just in the Hollows the other day with my level 6 tanker and Flux sent him down to within 50 yards of the Skyway door. That's not necessary.
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I dont want to be too snarky, and this is not directed at you, Geko, or anyone in particular:
Please read this
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I could wait months to actually PLAY issue 12. (In fact, I wish the devs would let me catch up, I'm just now getting most of my players through Issue 10's content) I just want to hear about it.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Awesome read, thanks for the tidbit! 
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Now make Hollows radio missions available so I can get the temp travel powers there instead of having to go to King's Row and I'm sold.
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What he said.
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That's not what we *really* want because then, just like the KR Safeguard, we wouldn't be able to Flahsback to Meg's mission to pick it up again. We want a temp travel power to be in an *arc mission* so that we can replenish it just like villains can replenish theirs. (Another reason why the Devs hate Heroes!)
Wincott's last mission should give a temp travel power, "Thanks for all you've done for me! If you're going to be helping out Flux or venture deeper into the Hollows, you may want some help to get over the Gulch. I've managed to requisition a Jet Pack for you from the PPD."
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I really hope this is not all the info we are getting today. 
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As I stated in an earlier thread, we are still weeks out from closed beta and more weeks out from open beta and then launch. So, expect to get something on a weekly basis from now till then. If we just dumped it all out now, well we'd be sitting around going "that's nice, but when can I play it?" So, thanks for your patience and understanding that it won't all come at once.
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Well, it's disappointing b/c it doesn't actually tell us anything new about the CoV content that's always been in shorter supply to blueside. Just giving us one more "proliferation" tidbit would have been real news. Or how bout some more vague clues about a VEAT? A 'tidbit' about a zone that most ppl avoid now and only spans 5-10 levels on only one faction was hardly anything to get our hopes up about. (no offense to Warwitch, she rocks). It's just too limited in scope to be real news.
Now I'm definitely going to have idle hands for the rest of the week.... *doo Doot DOOO*
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Wincott's last mission should give a temp travel power, "Thanks for all you've done for me! If you're going to be helping out Flux or venture deeper into the Hollows, you may want some help to get over the Gulch. I've managed to requisition a Jet Pack for you from the PPD."
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Heh, how about a parachute pack that has an anvil in it... kinda like Daffy Duck. Wincott: "OOoops, I had NO idea that jump pack would run out over top of Grendel's Gulch... And you landed on a spawn of thirty igneous? Dang... sucks to be you. Debt can be your friend you know... we offer a badge now..."
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My first 50 was raised in the Hollows. I was one of those people who didn't know that you could skip Dave's missions after talking to him and pretty much stayed in the zone until around lvl 16-ish. I killed Frostfire so many times on so many PUGs that now we're on a firstname basis. The Hollows was hard, to be certain. But the main thing I respected about the Hollows was this: IT TAUGHT US HOW TO RUN. Agro distance, breaking Line of Sight, charity (giving insp/rezzes to dead lowbies), and just the plain experience of teaming up with unknown heroes to battle threats that you could never tackle alone. Many of the people who are now in my SG were met while transversing the Hollows. Shared adversity begat conversation about strategy, which lead to more general conversation, finding stuff in common, then eventually becoming friends and remaining that way to this very day. It was hard, yes. But it was worth it and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything.
Thank you War Witch for giving some care and attention to the furnace that forged me into the hero I am today.
I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe. If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other.
WW: How's about Portal Corp scientists finally applying some experimental geo-mystical energy from the Shadow Shard and installing a few of those catapult canyons in the Hollows?
Need to get to the middle of the Hollows quickly? What better than a lvl 5 being sling shot across the board?
Finally all those scientists in the Shadow Shard can show they've applied themselves -- instead of being kidnapped over and over and over.
In my mind's eye, I see large groups of no-debt earning lowbies lining up to be launched into the gulch for just that purpose.... LOL
Damm.... they mention the Hollows first.... oh well save the best for last...
War Witch: Are the missions from Meg Mason repeatable if you're out of level range of the other contacts?
It'd be silly for players to get repeatable missions about Vhaz, Outcasts, or Trolls since they're 'DO-class' enemies. (I think the way the devs explain it is they don't spawn above a certain level and don't have powers to compete with players over level 20 or so.)
However, Igneous, Circle, and Coralax range MUCH higher than the other enemy groups. It seems like a level 40 player could get a challenge out of missions including them.
Also, thanks kindly for the changes to the Trolls in the dam area. I always congratulate people for being able to finish the 'Defeat all creatures in cave' mission since it's doable, even if it's super-tough, but the 'Defeat 10 Trolls near the dam' mission gives me so much grief that I don't ever encourage others to stick with it. The trial zone-size spawns are always too difficult for players who can approach Julius to attack, even in a 3-5 man group.
However, the mechanic of finding a group of trolls placing bombs and using the bombs to finish off the group from range is a neat one. I'd recommend leaving at least one instance of this spawn in for the same of encouraging players to think differently about how they approach difficult missions.
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It's a nice revamp, but I am not sure if I am happy about Coralax and Legacy Chain appearing hero side, when they are still pretty vacant villain side. I will withhold my judgment for now though. I still think these revamps should be for both sides, some how though.
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Well, heroes might not be able to attack the Legacy Chain...
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At first I was thinking confusion could get it done like in PvP zones but I realized, no villains in there to confuse them, so I hazard to guess they will not be targettable.
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Crie Moar Plz!
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Why thank you I will!
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Your tears are delicious! NOM NOM NOM! 
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While a hijack, this thread isn't exactly inappropriate for this topic. The devs decided to lead with this and as such, it's a valid point of discussion to consider whether this info was what they should have led with.
Sure LH could come along and tell me, "No you're wrong EG, go away" but that would just be him pulling rank.
And in any event, better to keep this hear than to start a new forum topic.
Less clutter. And besides, there's not much to say here except, "Good night WW, Good work, Sleep well, I'll most likely kill you in the morning."
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So, you recognize it as a hijack and then scattershot several rationalizations why it's still appropriate? To answer:
- Any two things related to the game can be 'connected' to each other, thus making any hijack not a hijack by drawing that connection.
- You know that LH and Ex don't have the time to manually delete every off-topic post. They let ride a lot of forum policy breakers or else they'd have time for nothing else. (Can't wait for the new full-time forum mod to be hired!)
- Off-topic posts mixed in with the actual topic is the true clutter -- it's the very definition of clutter. Every topic in their own thread is actually less clutter.
- False dilemma of congratulating WW or leaving the thread barren of actual content. Congratulating WW is actual content. People asking for clarifications of what's on topic is on topic. The complaints about losing challenging hazard spawns is on topic. That has all happened and is real content. No need to drag in off-topic content to validate this thread.
The problem isn't so much an aside of "wish this was proliferation info" disappointment; it's the vehemence and bitterness and the accusations of either bad-faith or stupidity or incompetence of the Devs that has hijacked this into a topic of our relationship with the Devs. That doesn't belong here.
The Devs aren't your parents, people, and this isn't a sign that they don't love you! (Except for you Villains, I've heard they hate you.) 
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While I never had a problem with Hollows as it is now.
I can understand how others thought it was rough tho, so it's probably a good change.
However, I do like the added Hospital for the hazard zone. Never minded faceplanting , but sometimes that walk from AP Hosp back to the Hollows could get annoying.
Never had a problem with kill steals in either CoH/V, but I do think it's cool to have some Legacy Chain walking about, but I won't lie to you...Wyvern would of been cooler.
It would be nice if this got some more people into the Hollows, instead of KR police band missions (I like the option, but story arcs are fun too).
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Nice to see the makeover for the Hallows, because there just didn't seem to be a lot to do there outside of the main storyarch and tf. Glad to see that missions will be closer to the contacts with consideration to the players lvl. No more running around the gorge to get to a mission. Hospital is fantastic because I agree the run from the AP hosp was a buzz kill.
More mobs and glad to see that some of the COV hero groups are making their way hero side. All in all great changes to a zone that needed a tad, not a lot, of elbow grease.
Is Boomtown up next for a makeover? I love the zone but I never have to go there and no one is ever there.
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You know that LH and Ex don't have the time to manually delete every off-topic post. They let ride a lot of forum policy breakers or else they'd have time for nothing else. (Can't wait for the new full-time forum mod to be hired!)
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Interestingly enough, it's not clear that thread hijacking is against the rules. This is the rule on off-topic conversations.
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Avoid posting random and off-topic conversation in the General Discussion forum. Off-topic threads/posts will be removed without notice or explanation.
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That's it. The question of intepretation would be whether the first sentence in that paragraph acts as a limiter to the second sentence. In general English composition, it must since the topic of the paragraph is the first sentence. Had they intended to create a new thought, the drafter would have set the second sentence off on its own.
But in addition, I would argue that thread-jacking is a valuable tool. I've seen troll posts get hijacked into useful threads by people who wanted to thwart the troll. Also, I've seen discussions just veer off into off-topic territory which is plainly more interesting that the original topic.
Trying to micromanage this stuff is more counterproductive IMO than just letting it happen.
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False dilemma of congratulating WW or leaving the thread barren of actual content.
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There actually was a false dilemma in my post, but that wasn't it. The real false dilemma is the clutter argument. I made that knowing that it was BS. But I disagree that I've created a false dilemma. This post would be pretty barren without our amusing tirades into forum rules lawyering, recriminations and the like.
If that were not true, then these posts would constitute an anomaly. Instead, there's just not enough to talk about to drown out the real topic.
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The problem isn't so much an aside of "wish this was proliferation info" disappointment; it's the vehemence and bitterness and the accusations of either bad-faith or stupidity or incompetence of the Devs that has hijacked this into a topic of our relationship with the Devs. That doesn't belong here.
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Of course, there's some of that, but this isn't a fair characterization. Most of the complaints are civil. I don't have any problem with people calling me on by BS, but hey, people have a right to present feedback. They might get challenged on it, and that's OK too, but presented feedback isn't wrong. Being upset isn't wrong.
The only people I've even had a sideways cross word for are the marketers. I luvs our dev team and think they've been doing an awesome job.
I would complain if I didn't care.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Now make Hollows radio missions available so I can get the temp travel powers there instead of having to go to King's Row and I'm sold.
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What he said.
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That's not what we *really* want because then, just like the KR Safeguard, we wouldn't be able to Flashback to Meg's mission to pick it up again. We want a temp travel power to be in an *arc mission* so that we can replenish it just like villains can replenish theirs. (Another reason why the Devs hate Heroes!)
Wincott's last mission should give a temp travel power, "Thanks for all you've done for me! If you're going to be helping out Flux or venture deeper into the Hollows, you may want some help to get over the Gulch. I've managed to requisition a Jet Pack for you from the PPD."
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Migod. That would be BRILLIANT!
I usually go to Kings to lvl rather than to the Hollows... the only bad thing about it was the location of missions... i still believed that there should still be those hazard sized spawns just have a few solo sized mobs as well.
I think now the hollows might have lost some of it's hazardness.
Love the changes you've done to the Hollows, Melissa. The new mob types will add diversity and the streamlined level ranges and spawn sizes will make the zone much easier to navigate.
One technical question about the in-game mini-map: Will the neighborhood boundaries be updated to reflect the streamlining of mob levels? As it is right now, Cherry Hills and Eastgate Park each have a yellow and orange zone, and Four Seasons and Grendel's Gulch have orange and red. It would be nice if the mini-map was adjusted accordingly so the neighborhood boundaries matched.
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while this is all good stuff, just one small concern, with current number of ignious bosses springing up, to get the badge is a bit of a pain, if they are reduced very much then getting the badge will be even more of a pain
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