Draft: PvP Community Wish List
By
Acanous_Quietus,
Posted on: 2007-11-14 18:29 in Everything about PvP
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1. Cross-server PvP
2. Selectable maps
3. PvP and PvE Builds
4. /pvpcount
5. Paid PvP Expansion
6. Non-SG Arena Match Caps
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Thats my list to lol
@Everest
@Hoey Moey - Retired
Castle/City raids (at least like in L2) would be really nice. Though I'm scratching my head as to how that would roll out.
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kills/runes/insigs is 90% of any encounter, skill is all in the build make up
youve also aparently never competed at the top teir of GvG or HoH, its always a battle between 2 or 3 big guilds (like the speamen in the summer of 05, they dominated HoH for a few months), sure people sit around RA/AB all day but it isnt PvP, thats an exaggerated place to test builds
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NOTE: this is Gila's brother, posting because she mentioned the GW comments to me.
I've competed in top level GvG since beta (E3 2004 specifically). Everythign you've said is wrong.
For starters, build makeup is only *half* the battle. The other half is team strategy, execution, timing, energy management, and playing tot he map. There are no exceptions tot his, not even gimmick builds like the tripsmites, Searing Flames's, and spike builds of olde. Hell, even IWAY took *some* skill.
Added tot hat is individual player skill. Ask a top level ranger if playing the class (barring thumpers) is easy. Ask a top level monk the same question. Same for any class. Skill>build makeup, barring exploits.
Secondly, HoH is not top-level pvP by any means. Top level is top25-50 depending on the season/balance changes.
Third, youre both wrong; the Faction system is IMO *better* than playingn the PvE game. Saved templates, balanced weapons, etc. Sure, way back before these changes, PvP chars were gimped, and pvEing was the onyl way to go, but not now.
Fourth, 2 or 3 big guilds? Try ~15 consistantly, not counting surprises (and by surprises i mean both gimmick guilds and baalnced/pressure guilds). War Machine, EViL (till fairly recently, at least), Te, (not sure who the current tops are; retired a few months ago; damn Anet never buffing my preorder weapon :cry
, those are only the *consistant* winners. Guilds come and go. The top players PuG with each other often enough that top guilds seem to sprign forth out of nowhere, when they are inf act just older guilds revived/new guilds with the same players.
get your facts straight.
~~Stealthrider, Apathy Inc. Ranger (retired June 2007)
Putz (and all who cooperated in this) just want to say thanks for all your work, I genuinely appreciate all you have done.
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kills/runes/insigs is 90% of any encounter, skill is all in the build make up
youve also aparently never competed at the top teir of GvG or HoH, its always a battle between 2 or 3 big guilds (like the speamen in the summer of 05, they dominated HoH for a few months), sure people sit around RA/AB all day but it isnt PvP, thats an exaggerated place to test builds
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NOTE: this is Gila's brother, posting because she mentioned the GW comments to me.
I've competed in top level GvG since beta (E3 2004 specifically). Everythign you've said is wrong.
For starters, build makeup is only *half* the battle. The other half is team strategy, execution, timing, energy management, and playing tot he map. There are no exceptions tot his, not even gimmick builds like the tripsmites, Searing Flames's, and spike builds of olde. Hell, even IWAY took *some* skill.
Added tot hat is individual player skill. Ask a top level ranger if playing the class (barring thumpers) is easy. Ask a top level monk the same question. Same for any class. Skill>build makeup, barring exploits.
Secondly, HoH is not top-level pvP by any means. Top level is top25-50 depending on the season/balance changes.
Third, youre both wrong; the Faction system is IMO *better* than playingn the PvE game. Saved templates, balanced weapons, etc. Sure, way back before these changes, PvP chars were gimped, and pvEing was the onyl way to go, but not now.
Fourth, 2 or 3 big guilds? Try ~15 consistantly, not counting surprises (and by surprises i mean both gimmick guilds and baalnced/pressure guilds). War Machine, EViL (till fairly recently, at least), Te, (not sure who the current tops are; retired a few months ago; damn Anet never buffing my preorder weapon :cry, those are only the *consistant* winners. Guilds come and go. The top players PuG with each other often enough that top guilds seem to sprign forth out of nowhere, when they are inf act just older guilds revived/new guilds with the same players.
get your facts straight.
~~Stealthrider, Apathy Inc. Ranger (retired June 2007)
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Theres never more than 5 TOP guilds at one time, the others are just competing for the title of "top guild"
I played a ranger in top rated GvG from summer of 05 to spring of 06, prior to that and after that I was simply an HoH [censored] and AB'd all day on an assassin
The game doesnt take skill, it just takes a group of competent guys who know how to execute their team build, the word for that is common sense, not skill
I also agree that anyone who plays a roleplay character in all pvp venues is either a) rich and has everything a pvp char could have or b) stupid. I agree that pvp characters are more balanced in GW, especially as you get to the point where you may be needed to switch characters to monk or base gank, ect.
The word "Skill" is thrown around too much in GW, player skill caps VERY soon because of the insane balance of the game
If you know how to keep yourself alive and communicate then you WILL do well, the game is simply too balanced
PvP Premades would not work in City of Heroes, the game just isnt balanced around it like Guild Wars is. Apple=/= Orange. This thread isnt about GW pvp nor is it about your opinions vs mine (btw, mine will always be better than yours from my perspective)
If you have any more siblings who want to [Censored] flex then I'm sorry but you'll have to tell them no, thread hijacking can be very bothersome.
@TheBro
solo pvp?
Cooler than every single owl EVER.
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Theres never more than 5 TOP guilds at one time, the others are just competing for the title of "top guild"
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When you get past top 20-30 or so, anyone is capable of beating anyone.
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The word "Skill" is thrown around too much in GW, player skill caps VERY soon because of the insane balance of the game
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It was heavily damaged in Nightfall, which added an ungodly amount of button-mashing trash builds. The whole "skill-based" gameplay is a reflection of the fact that the effectiveness of a team is ultimately determined by how good the players are above all else, and isn't undermined by button-mashing trash builds that get higher return for less effort.
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PvP Premades would not work in City of Heroes, the game just isnt balanced around it like Guild Wars is.
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And how is that? CoH is even more capable of doing it because it has had the ability to make skills behave differently on players since PvP was introduced, so it is more capable of balancing things while shielding PvE play from its effects, something Guild Wars didn't do until EOTN.
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In my experience a reward that is 'meaningful' means a reward that is harder or impossible to get another way when it comes to PvP.
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This is only one way to do it. Many would be happy with simple XP, influence or rare recipe drops, and Kitten_of_Chaos in fact suggested that even such rewards should designed as less time efficient than their PVE counterparts, to discourage farming.
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It was heavily damaged in Nightfall, which added an ungodly amount of button-mashing trash builds
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Amen. One reason i retired. AI ran a 5/3 split build, with an Axe war, Cripshot ranger (me) and E/mo Air flagger on split, and a pressure/mini-spike when together. You can't tell me that doesn't take skill.
Especially as a Ranger. You can't tell me interrupting doesnt take skill. Yea, a quick trigger finger helps, but memorizing opposing casters' patterns, watching two or three at once, and keeping track of what's distracted is *not* easy.
Nightfal did ruin much oft he PvP, though. EViL quitting didn't help much either. Pre-Nightfall, though, the top25-50 depending on season/balances was always competitive.
I DO have to agree that PvP templates wouldnt work in CoX, though. While you bring up a good point, Facepunch, from what i've seen/experienced in CoX, I don'tt hink it's viable. The game's a PvE one, with PvP tacked on. Doesn't seem balanced enough to warrant PvP templates. Balance should come first.
~~Stealthrider
/sign
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I DO have to agree that PvP templates wouldnt work in CoX, though. While you bring up a good point, Facepunch, from what i've seen/experienced in CoX, I don'tt hink it's viable. The game's a PvE one, with PvP tacked on. Doesn't seem balanced enough to warrant PvP templates. Balance should come first.
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There's enough variety in what is viable in PvP for it to be salvaged. And yes, I know that the amount that is viable is a relatively small portion of what is possible, but that's a fact of life in any MMO with a PvP component. What matters is how many options you have that work, not how many you have that don't.
Balance is easier with PvP templates anyway, because you don't have to deal with variation from PvE stuff (i.e. IOs), and because you don't have to worry about pissing off large amounts of people by forcing them to commit to an extremely time-consuming reroll when you nerf them.
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While we know it might be impossible until a server-less configuration, cross-server zones are very, very high on player wish lists.
Bring back CoP and IoP's
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Amen.
You can't spell Slaughter without laughter
All your gonna do is just farm behemoths anyways.
My thoughts on November 30.
No Meaningful Rewards
PvP and PvE Builds
Instanced PvP Missions
PvP Tutorial/Training Wheels
/pvpcount
Bounty System in All Zones
Dev Involvement
Fix Defense
3. Villains have no access to ally grantable +perception in Sirens. Either switch the order of sonic repulsion and clarity or add it to thaw or the ice shields.
4. Not being able to use accolades while exemping favors power gamers at the expense of casual players who got their accolades later. Let accolades be used in PvP zones regardless of what level they're earned at.
1. Hero and villain combat is not balanced, especially in the 40+ game. The most popular suggestion is to open up a set of APP for villains and allow them to respec out of their patron pools to get those.
2. Many people feel that the balance of irresistible effects in PvP needs to be reconsidered. Changing irresistible effects might be another way of balancing heroes and villains.
3. Brutes, tanks, and scrappers are entirely absent from high end team PvP. Consider adding resistance or protection to Cage to some of the sets that arent as good in PvP (invuln, stone, ea) and make taunt less easy to shake.
4. There arent any meaningful rewards to encourage participation in PvP. Add zone rewards that are for PvPing, not for doing PvE activities in PvP zones.
2. People often have to reset matches multiple times to get an acceptable map. Add selectable maps, as well as the ability to eliminate maps from the selection while still having a random pick.
2. There are no options in arena matches that arent just kill the most people on the other team. Add objective based instanced PvP like capture the flag and king of the hill.
5. Theres no open zone where heroes and villains are able to team. Allow heroes and villains to team in Warburg.
1. Fly is not a viable PvP travel power. Add protection to fly, possibly to an underused buff such as O2 boost, antidote, or one of the ST FF bubbles.
I think that's 10.
Anyway, signed on everything in that list, but those are the stuff I want the most. I'd also like to sign on the mastermind issues, and I think that being able to summon in the OAS period would be a good tradeoff.
What is so unbalanced about this game? Minus Hero vs Villain.
An MMO is never 100% balanced and if it were you may as well be playing a FPS with a tab button. It would be boring as hell. Do you play Guild Wars still? When was the last time you did an 8v8 in this game with people that knew something about how to put together a team? Why would you come into a thread or this sort and compare it to a different game? What makes you think they would even make a PvP expansion remotely similar to Guild Wars. Couldn't you just say, this is what I vote for? Either could I. Go roll another Scrapper.
This thread is going to be closed soon, so really any discussion would be better served by creating a new thread in this forum and revisiting it there.
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Uhh sure you can get that character to max level in 1 or 2 days
But now go get all the elites and skills you need to actually be worthwhile to even use in pvp
Its the same thing
Combat system has no relevance to what I am saying
Also you will have to explain to me how making a pvp char in GW gives you everything you could want in GW out of the pve
It only gives you skills
PvE in guild wars is entirely different than the PvP in that game, you can't say that by making a PvP character you have done all that you could have wanted to in GW
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the combat system has everything to do with it becuase in guild wars you at least have some goals on a pvp character (unlocking skills via balth faction).
and for the record, GW's pvp crowd is very small and very european.
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uhhh unlocking stuff via balth faction is not part of a combat system its an unlockable system, and the pvp community is definately not small at all
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have you ever played guild wars?
kills/runes/insigs is 90% of any encounter, skill is all in the build make up
youve also aparently never competed at the top teir of GvG or HoH, its always a battle between 2 or 3 big guilds (like the speamen in the summer of 05, they dominated HoH for a few months), sure people sit around RA/AB all day but it isnt PvP, thats an exaggerated place to test builds
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uhhh okay, if you have ever been to hoh you would see the enormous amounts of teams there, also they have a full ranked gvg system, check out all the teams on that. I'd say its pretty frickin big.
i have played in top 200 gvg and used to run with a team that would hold halls, but the meta gets old really fast in gvg so i got back into coh and discovered i really liked the pvp here.
But in pvp its always a battle of the top two or three teams, you can say that for any game. Not really fair to bring up that example because they should be on top because they are good at what they do.
Skill is definately all in how you play, better players beat better builds, its just that simple
Auto level+ loot/accolade for pvp toon (/pvp server/ pvp xpansion
whatever it takes so i dont have to farm anymore)
select map in arena ( long overdue )
cross server arena (or pvp server ie see above)
fix spawn camping (OAS timer issues)
hero vils balance (GL w that.. start with epics)
observer bot ( +perc and faster)
system matches ( really wtf r they there for anyway?)
arena kiosk in zones
insp setting in arena
1. Hero-Villain Balance
2. Selectable balance
3. Cop and Iop
4. pvp count
5. flight not viable
6. don't make /hide hide you from the bounty system
7. No meaningful rewards
With 4 or more votes:
Item Number of Requests
Selectable maps 59
Hero-Villain Balance 53
Cross-server PvP 41
No Meaningful Rewards 34
Paid PvP Expansion 34
Villain Lack of +per 32
OAS Timer Issues 30
PvP and PvE Builds 29
Flight Not Viable 25
Inspiration Tier 25
Instanced PvP Missions 25
Observer Bot Issues 25
Non-SG Arena Match Caps 18
PvP Tutorial/Training Wheels 18
/pvpcount 17
Fury Bug 16
Bounty System in All Zones 15
Arena Organized Tournies 12
Remove System Matches 11
CoP and IoPs 7
Accolades while Exemping 6
Cage Issues 6
Dev Involvement 6
Placate Bug 6
Arena Level Issues 4
MM Arena Issues 4
Sirens Bounty Bugs 4
another thing I wish happens: Regulate the only affecting self time after dying.
I really wish the guild wars fanbois and pvp haters wouldnt have disturbed the thread
My votes still go with
Balance PPPs and APPs
Instanced Zone pvp
Cross server arena ladders
@TheBro
solo pvp?
Cooler than every single owl EVER.
1. Patron Power overhaul, give us something equivalent of hero epics. No Roleplaying factor please.
2. Make Fury useful in PvP. Much slower decay, faster build up, AV level numbers.
3. Give melee characters something to make them useful. Some suggestions include ability to shed debuffs/mezzes, resistance to cage, higher resistances to debuffs so ice armor isn't the only defensive set that doesn't explode against them, ability to activate their mez shield/click/tier9 power while under the effects of mez (the way a Dominator can pop Domination while under such effects).
4. Rebalancing of 'unresisted' powers. Either drop them from heroes or spread them out amongst villains.
5. Ability to switch between a PvE and PvP build.
6. Stabalize the only affecting self timer.
7. More rewards in PvP. Allow a way to earn recipes through a bounty system or something similar.
8. Accolade balance.
9. Add +perception to a pre-30 villain buff.
10. Paid PvP expansion.
Copy and Pasting my top ten, in absolutely no particular order.
1.Cage is overpowered since it has no workable counters. Add cage resistance (i.e., a decrease in duration caged) to one or more ally buffs.
2.Many people feel that the balance of irresistible effects in PvP needs to be reconsidered. Changing irresistible effects might be another way of balancing heroes and villains.
3.Fury does not build as intended.
4.Villains have no access to ally grantable +perception in Sirens. Either switch the order of sonic repulsion and clarity or add it to thaw or the ice shields.
5.Its annoying to have to trudge through multiple zones to find out where the greatest amount of PvP is happening. Add a /pvpcount or other slash command that would give a count of heroes and villains in the various pvp zones. If possible include people on /hide in the count. (Just a simple heroes/number villains/number would be nice.I don't need names, I want numbers.)
6.A player can do most of the damage to another player and still get no reward if an off team player kill steals him. Award partial credit for Bounty based on damage, as is done for XP when 2 different unteamed players defeat a mob on the street.(My Corrupters work hard for those kills.)
7.The bases are vulnerable in Bloody Bay, Sirens, and Warburg. Look into better protecting the hero and villain bases either by a portal system (such as in RV) or by adding a TP resistant field in the hospital.(This would help a LOT of the "STOP CAMPING ME OR I WILL DRONE YOU!!!" broadcasts in Sirens.)
8.Not being able to use accolades while exemping favors power gamers at the expense of casual players who got their accolades later. Let accolades be used in PvP zones regardless of what level they're earned at.
9.There are no true instanced PvP missions. A popular suggestion is Hero vs. Villain in PvP enabled Safeguard/Mayhem.
10.People often want to 1v1 in the zones but have no way of doing so without getting interrupted. Add arena terminals to hero and villain bases.
Now for things I absolutely do not want to see.
The paid expansion.Why would we go from rewarding power gamers, to rewarding the rich!?
Some of these power gamers also have tons of cash, otherwise they wouldn't have multiple accounts to self buff and self PL.Imagine facing one of them in zone who has teamed himself with his 4 level 50, totally decked out defenders or corrupters?
I don't get discouraged easily, but that right there would drive me right out of the zone in annoyance.
Also it would lead to childish rich people running off to make the perfect counter to your build because you beat them in a duel.Granted they might not be very good at using a character he just purchased, but it would still be a stupid thing to have to deal with.
I am also very unsure about getting rewards for participating (dying) in pvp.I am sad that my thermal gets farmed by heroes when I team in Sirens, but I think I would be a little embarassed if I had 400 rep at all times, showing just how much I get farmed.
Haven't participated in much arena and have yet to do one raid, so I can't comment on what they need changed.
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The paid expansion.Why would we go from rewarding power gamers, to rewarding the rich!?
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Hyperbole much? We're not talking about buying a Rolls Royce here, we're talking about a $20-$30 purchase. And that has nothing to do with the cost of maintaining multiple accounts.
Rewarding the rich? That's one hell of a stretch you're making. The assertion is laughable, at best.
1. Fix Fury in PvP.
2. Balance hero vs villain PvP at all levels. Give villains access to epic pools if they desire, and create patron powers for heroes that do not diverge from the villain versions to the point that it again unbalances the equation. Simple.
3. Fix the bounty system in SC so that it cannot be exploited by people who remain afk in the zone for hours on end until server reset just to spite people because they have some gripe about the games mechanics and decide to take it out on the player base.
4. level 50 PvP zone FFA. With objectives. Not RV. Create something meaningful. Want to see what objective and reward based PvP looks like? Take a look at DAoC. That would be a good starting point if you don't understand that a game won't be imbalanced by introducing PvP rewards that carry over to PvE, providing that factional balance already exists.
5. Last but certainly not least, more development staff supported PvP events. Cameo appearances by signature based characters during events. nuff said.
Thanks in advance.