Draft: PvP Community Wish List
By
Acanous_Quietus,
Posted on: 2007-11-14 18:29 in Everything about PvP
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Putz you are pure Grade A awesomesauce.
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Fixed...and Putz, thank you so much for doing this for the PvP'ers, even the smallest difference helps.
22 50's in Bio
@Siphonic
RIP PX, GMW, and the game that used to be fun.
Still playing for reasons unknown.
priorities PvP wise for me are:
1) Selectable maps, with the ability to pull specific maps from the random pool as well.
2) Ability to auto 50 a toon that is ONLY PvP enabled with a comparable amount of resources to supply the said toon with IOs or (listing both here at number two, because I extremely doubt that they would ever do both) make toons PvP/PvE build toggle-able.
3) Improve arena matches : As in, total kills and deaths for each player. Make more options when creating matches such as slectable inspiration tiers, more time selections (5 mins, 15 mins, 25 mins) , ability to toggle arena temps on/off. Ability to have more than 8 on a team without being in the same SG.
4) More speed and + perception for observerbots;also, I like the idea I read about giving them "scoreboards" so it's easier to tell what's going on.
5) A lvl 40-50 zone that is FFA. I hate the fact that a hero can fight another hero ungimped (not exemplared) is the arena. Also, less or no NPCs in the zones. I want to PvP, not PvPvE.
6) Normalize the only affecting self timer and effectiveness.
still looks fine Putz...
Before taking the weekend off, Ex made it a point of asking "what 3 things..." As in there's too damn many of us asking for too many things so can we narrow it down even more? Hell, I'll do one better and narrow it down to just 2 things:
-Castle's too busy for us...add an extra Dev just to do the PvP balancing he Can't do.
-Tell Positron we all KNOW he's wrong about rewards. Don't just say we "think" he's wrong. You can't attract more players to ANY activity in this game in larger numbers without some kind of worthwhile rewards!
omg what an amazing list in this thread, its kinda funny that the pvp community would be able to put a list like this together of all the things that need to be changed in the game for it to be better for pve and pvp. gj, awesome work. ty.
This is a dam good list of things.
Couple of things I think would be good is defiantly more incentive for groups to participate in Base Raids. And I think a cool idea would be to somehow include zones that have there own "Base" and SG's and VG's can fight over control of this "base"
If your VG/SG controls the base you have certain bonus's in that zone as well as maybe an extra contract for missions. Also maybe certain inspirations can be purchased from that base. This base would be separate from your normal Super Base but have most of the same principles. Most likely you could decorate rooms but not change the base layout but thats open to discussion.
I think this would be a cool idea even if they where located in non PVP zones this would make ppl want to Try to take control of these "bases" even for PvE purposes.
Just my $0.2 though and all the other ideas that are listed I love. More PvP in this game would be a definite bonus its one of the only things I don't like anymore
I would really like to see these changes implemented as well.
I think most would agree that PvPers are in demand, at least that is what I have experienced on Virtue. The PvP experience is vastly different from the PvE experience. You gotta see it to believe it. More players would likely visit PvP zones to soak it all in if granted amnesty. I propose a temporary power that allows players to enter a PvP zone for a limited amount of time to have a look-see. Maybe they can interact with NPCs. Options like Trade, of course, would have to be disabled for players in this mode because there would be an influx of inspiration mules.
Also, Recluse's Victory becomes ho-hum after the zillionth pill box is taken over. There are so many ways to expand this zone: missions, Hero vs. Villion missions, a better variety of NPCs.
One more suggestion: a hero-themed PvP zone. All PvPs zones are dark and villianous. I get the concept. Create a hero-themed zone that is raidable by villian PvPers. Villians would be required to complete a task like a strike force and heroes would be notified of villian invasion. Heroes could perhaps also grant villians entry into the zone via invite (but this deserves a much more dramatic title, like Honorable Challenge, or the like.)
Putz0rz, are you planning another editing pass on this?
Ex said she'd like to see some format changes, and from her remarks I think we need to clarify that the long, thorough list was intended to allow the Devs to cherry pick the easy ones, the high cost-benefit ones, or ones they were thinking of doing anyway for other reasons.
Also, judging from discussion I had in PM from a dev, toggleable builds should be moved to the Big Ticket Items section.
I'm happy to help, or to do some edits myself if you find yourself too busy. Let us know.
In light of recent Test server patches and the several-month-ongoing toggle bug, I'd (honestly) like to suggest that quicker responses to obvious known bugs be added to the list. It is my suspicion that that would receive even more support than selectable arena maps.
Dear Devs,
With the recent reinvestment in the City of games by NCSoft, many in the PvP community are hoping that a few of our issues might get some of your attention. On that theory we worked to compile a list of PvP bugs, issues, and popular requests. While we know you get many pleas, we hope this one might get your attention because it comes as the consolidated voice of almost 175 forum goers. We voted so as to get a better idea of which items were truly priorities; it may be helpful to take a look at our discussion here.
Not surprisingly, big ticket items drew a lot of votes, although Ex asked us to leave them off the final priority list. A serverless system or some other form of cross-server competition would be a boon for PvP, and we do hope you pursue it. We also hope that you take a look at the balance between heroes and villains: irresistibles and epics/patrons are cited as the most likely culprits. A paid PvP expansion was another big vote getter: people are willing to shell out extra to get the PvP items they so desperately want. The ability to have two builds, one for PvP and one for PvE, is also a very popular request, albeit one with complicated tech. That said, the simple request of selectable arena maps was the number one vote getter by a substantial margin.
Thank you for taking the time to read through this. We truly hope this list is helpful to you.
-PvP Community
[u]Priority List, as voted on by Members of the Community[u]
1. People often have to reset matches multiple times to get an acceptable map. Add selectable maps, as well as the ability to eliminate maps from the selection while still having a random pick.
2. There arent any meaningful rewards to encourage participation in PvP. One of the most popular suggestions it to update the bounty store for post-i9 rewards, and spreading the bounty system to the rest of the zones. Make sure the rewards are for PvPing, not for doing PvE activities in PvP zones.
3. The Only Affecting Self timer in the arena has two big issues: its wide variability, and the ability to affect people who are in OAS. This video shows how to trick the OAS timer. Additionally, the OAS timer itself lasts between 0 and 20 seconds, a world of difference in an arena match. Consider decreasing the range, normalizing the timer to a set value, or switching it to the PvP enabled mechanic that exists in zones.
4. Villains have no ally grantable source of +perception in Sirens Call. Consider switching the order of clarity and sonic repulsion, adding +per to the /cold shields, or adding it to thaw. This in itself could go a long way towards fixing balance issues.
5. Instanced PvP missons are a highly requested feature. Many people would like to PvP, but would like a story or different tasks other than just kill the most people on the other team. Hero vs. villain safeguard/mayhem missions are the most popular request, but king of the hill and capture the flag are also frequently mentioned.
[u]Specific Overall Lists:[u]
General System Bugs
General System Suggestions
Power Bugs
Power Balance Issues and Suggestions
Map Bugs
Arena Bugs
Arena Suggestions
PvP Zone Bugs
PvP Zone Suggestions
Base Raid Issues
General System Bugs
[*] Combat logs are incomplete and a substantial percentage of incoming damage doesn't show up.
[*] Defeat list only shows people who've defeated you, not those you have defeated.
[*] Trying to tp away from being tkd often causes a split reality, where the person who was being tkd and tried to tp out sees himself as succeeding, while in the game engine and to other people the person remains in the tk and is able to be attacked.
General System Suggestions
[*] There arent any meaningful rewards to encourage participation in PvP. Add zone rewards that are for PvPing, not for doing PvE activities in PvP zones. Priority Issue
[*] The current rep and bounty system doesnt reward new and learning players. Look at changing the reward system we already have to one where you gain just for participating but still gain more for winning.
[*] PvP is confusing to newcomers. Add a tutorial that explains some basic PvP tactics and introduces people to zones, arenas, base raids and their respective mini-games. Priority Issue
[*] The difficulty of leveling and equipping toons decreases the number of people who can get involved in competitive PvP. Make a paid PvP expansion where you can auto level to 50 and get unlimited loot for a toon, but can only play in the arena and PvP zones.
[*] There are no true instanced PvP missions. A popular suggestion is Hero vs. Villain in PvP enabled Safeguard/Mayhem. Priority Issue
[*] New PvPers feel overwhelmed as they try to get the hang of things. Consider adding a newbie friendly zone with debuffed damage, debuffed movement, and buffed resistance so players can learn basic mechanics at a slower pace.
[*] A good PvP build can be very different from a good PvE build. Allow players to toggle between build so they can use the same toon to be good at both PvE and PvP.
Power Bugs
[*] Placate is bugged and wont work if an effect from a previous attack (a stun, a dot, etc) is still effecting the person youre attempting to placate. Priority Issue
[*] Fury does not build as intended. Priority Issue
[*] If you tk someone with no knockback protection from high in the air, youre able to create a knockback which lasts for quite a while. The tkd person will be unable to do anything (including popping inspirations, hitting powers, etc) for the duration of the tk.
Power Balance Issues and Suggestions
[*] Fly is not a viable PvP travel power. Add protection to fly, possibly to an underused buff such as O2 boost, antidote, or one of the ST FF bubbles. Priority Issue
[*] Many feel that cage suppression or some other mechanic to prevent permacaging should be added. Currently, cage has no specific counters and a single IOd sonic can keep another player intangible for 90% of a match. Some like cage as is, and discussion about it is available here. Priority Issue
[*] Villains have no access to ally grantable +perception in Sirens. Either switch the order of sonic repulsion and clarity or add it to thaw or the ice shields. Priority Issue
[*] TP is not viable as a solo travel power or for combat motion. Suggestions include changing the hover after tp to fly, decreasing activation time, removing the hover when tping to the ground, or allowing people to change how far theyre tping.
[*] Hero and villain combat is not balanced, especially in the 40+ game. The most popular suggestion is to open up a set of APP for villains and allow them to respec out of their patron pools to get those. Priority Issue
[*] Many people feel that the balance of irresistible effects in PvP needs to be reconsidered. Changing irresistible effects might be another way of balancing heroes and villains.
[*] Brutes, tanks, and scrappers are entirely absent from high end team PvP. Consider adding resistance or protection to Cage to some of the sets that arent as good in PvP (invuln, stone, ea) and make taunt less easy to shake.
PvP Map Bugs
[*] There are places in the Perez Park map where you can get behind the trees. The /locs are -1748.4, -26.8, 2305.0; and -2056.6, -22.8, 2429.1. Run into the trees at that point and jump to get inside.
[*] There is a hole in the Eden map where you can fall and end up in total darkness at 1 HP. Ive been unable to get the /loc of where you call from, but you fall to 2439.6, -2000.0, 5436.1.
[*] You can use telekinesis (TK) to get people stuck in the lights in the monkey cage arena map in such a way that you can turn off TK, keep them stuck, and they wont be able to use /stuck to escape. The four lights used for this trick are at -222.9, 4.1, -1358.0; -222.0, 4.1, -1297.1; -161.1, 4.1, -1298.0; and -161.1, 4.1, -1357.7.
[*] Arena terminals in St. Martial and Pocket D arent appropriately marked on the zone maps. Add the A that marks them in other zones.
[*] Heroes can hop into the villain base in sirens and camp out there. The camp location is -1201.3, -152.0, 1795.5.
[*] In Sirens Call run into the corner at -1773.2, -178.0, 2173.8 and type /stuck. Its a corner of the map on the villain side of the zone. Use W or R to run straight into the corner and then type /stuck. This teleports you inside the villain hospital and to a corner where you wont be disturbed by drones and can shoot 1 hp 1 end villains right as they respawn.
[*] In Sirens Call if you line up against the wall at -132.0, -128.0, -172.6 and angle your camera so youre looking at your character from a birds eye view, you can tp yourself under the map and attack things with impunity.
[*] In Sirens Call you can tp someone to the point -753.7, -82.3, 1265, which is in a crate behind some spools. Players stuck there can be attacked but cannot get out, even by using /stuck.
Arena Bugs
[*] If you quit out of an arena match early, youll occasionally be bugged and unable to relist matches for a while. When you click Create an Event the UI will flash to a screen with the old event set up and youll get an error message saying failed to add the event. Youre able to join events listed by others, but youll first get a message saying youll need to drop the previous event you were in.
[*] The only affecting self timer is unreliable. Testing had it varying between 3 and 17 seconds: a world of difference in an arena match. Please normalize the timer. Priority Issue
[*] You are often able to hold, stun and damage players who are only affecting self. See this video for a demonstration. Priority Issue
[*] You can enter 1v1s while teamed, allowing dominators to build domination at a faster than intended rate.
[*] A player can zone into an arena match dead and his teammates may stack veng off the body by putting it on auto and selecting the fallen teammate.
[*] Occasionally some players will be able to move and use toggles and buffs before the timer at the beginning of the match is over.
[*] People who lag when entering arena matches will sometimes have a different time in their navigation screen than the actual match timer.
[*] A confused player who kills his own teammate receives a point for the kill.
[*] The teleport to arena after an ai occasionally does not work.
[*] The Arena has badges for the championship of each weight class. They don't work.
[*] The timer on the navigation (nav) screen does not show up in 30 minute matches.
[*] Observers will only sometimes be able to see the match timer.
Arena Suggestions
[*] Observers have trouble following the action in PvP matches. Greatly increase the flight speed of the arena bots. Consider adding an option to grant them +perception. Priority Issue
[*] People often have to reset matches multiple times to get an acceptable map. Add selectable maps, as well as the ability to eliminate maps from the selection while still having a random pick. Priority Issue
[*] Theres no way of policing the tier of inspiration used even though tier 1s are the only thing sold at the arena store. Add an option to limit the tier of inspirations used. Priority Issue
[*] Since team size on non-SG matches caps at 8 people, new people who want to play are often shut out of matches. Allow non-SG matches to be greater than 8v8. Priority Issue
[*] Some people do not like the current system of arena temps. Add an option to disable arena temps. Consider adding an option to permit all temp powers, including ones from outside the arena.
[*] The buggy system generated matches are confusing and no one uses them. Remove them from the terminal. Priority Issue
[*] The arena system can be confusing to first time users. Add copies of the NPCs that explain the arena found in Pocket D to the other arenas.
[*] Current level ranges are clunky, and put lower level players at a disadvantage. Allow players to set matches to a specific level and allow players to get auto skd to that level as well as auto expemlared.
[*] There are no options in arena matches that arent just kill the most people on the other team. Add objective based instanced PvP like capture the flag and king of the hill. Priority Issue
[*] Popular events like lethal lotteries and kickball are hard to organize using the current arena UI. Make mechanics to auto run some of the more popular styles. Priority Issue
[*] Observer bots can have a tough time figuring out whos winning and whos on what team. Create a way for observer bots to distinguish between the two teams or add an ongoing scoreboard.
PvP Zone Bugs
[*] When first zoning in to Sirens, your initial bounty wont show up with a dot on the map. When your bounty switches (either because the players been killed or left the zone), the tracking dot will then show up.
[*] If you are killed, youll sometimes get a bounty dot on the map where you died. This can lead to having multiple dots on the map and being unable to distinguish your true bounty.
PvP Zone Suggestions
[*] Its annoying to have to trudge through multiple zones to find out where the greatest amount of PvP is happening. Add a /pvpcount or other slash command that would give a count of heroes and villains in the various pvp zones. If possible include people on /hide in the count. Priority Issue
[*]The bounty store in Sirens should be updated to include post-i9 rewards including recipes and salvage. If possible, allow people to choose between inspiration and enhancements if they enough bounty for either. Priority Issue
[*]In most zones theres no reward for killing other players who are PvPing. Expand the bounty system to all the PvP zones. Priority Issue
[*] The lethality of NPCs in the PvP zones means dealing with debt is a penalty of PvPing while on your way to 50. Decrease the number or level of NPCs in the zone.
[*] People often want to 1v1 in the zones but have no way of doing so without getting interrupted. Add arena terminals to hero and villain bases.
[*] When more than one team of heroes or villains is in the zone, they have no way to communicate and plan an assault without the opposing side hearing. Make request faction side only.
[*] Remove upper level limit on zone door missions. Currently high-level players are not permitted to play the minigame of buffing/debuffing allies/enemies but they're still allowed to be affected by it.
[*] Improve buff/debuff mission info. Currently mission holders dont see the percentage of the buff/debuff, only people outside in the zone do.
[*] A player can do most of the damage to another player and still get no reward if an off team player kill steals him. Award partial credit for Bounty based on damage, as is done for XP when 2 different unteamed players defeat a mob on the street.
[*] The bases are vulnerable in Bloody Bay, Sirens, and Warburg. Look into better protecting the hero and villain bases either by a portal system (such as in RV) or by adding a TP resistant field in the hospital.
[*] Most PvP missions require you to enter an instanced map, which means you cant participate in the zones PvP. Add repeatable in zone missions (i.e., missions that let you stay in the zone and not enter an instanced map).
[*] Except for Sirens, the zone goals and mini games that arent very integrated and dont encourage fighting other players.
[*] Theres no open zone where heroes and villains are able to team. Allow heroes and villains to team in Warburg.
Base Raid Bugs and Issues
Base raid issues are also well covered here, so well keep requests from our side to a minimum.
[*] Youre able to tp opposing players into prison cells made of decorative items from which they cant escape.
[*] Field items dont always work in base raids.
[*] Add a 30 second period of being unable to attack enemies/be attacked, similar to the counter on you when you enter PvP zones.
[*] Raid set up is very confusing. Add a section on base raids to the in game Help, or create a base raid Tutorial.
[*] Allow for raids to be set to 30 minutes instead of an hour.
[*] Bring back CoP and IoPs. Priority Issue
[*] Take away disincentives to base raiding, such as defending SG members not involved being in the raid being unable to use their base, and the potential of property destruction when scheduled raids do occur.
Okay, after talking with a bunch of people about formatting/minimizing/simplifying/etc, I ended up with the above. I'll ask Ex to look it over. Let me know if there's anything else from your perspective that screams "change me" or if you think something's miscategorized.
I'm hoping this format will be one that's easiest for the appropriate people to read (i.e., map guy can go straight to map holes, castle can go straight to powers, anyone ever attempting to fix anything with the arena can jump straight to that).
Looks good.. very easy to read format. My only concern is that they might respond that there are too many items flagged as priority issues.
I flagged items with 10 or more votes as priority, and it seemed like a natural breaking point. I think it leaves the devs the ability to cherry pick issues that are easy for them to fix, while still seperating top issues.
After talking with Ex, I'm going to separate the finished list into a new thread and that's going to get sticked in place of this one. It should make it easier to digest if the devs ever do actually want to read it, and will be easier for future generations of PvPers to update if it's not burdened down by hundreds of dealt with posts.
Putz you are pure Grade A aweseome.